EPTThat might be related to the formula difference since its not like its OP in dota 1 now either.
General Discussion - Page 2663
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
That might be related to the formula difference since its not like its OP in dota 1 now either. | ||
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Comeh
United States18919 Posts
On April 26 2013 01:51 TheYango wrote: My guess is that's part of the Valve internal debate right now--whether the proper solution is to fix the bug, but leave in Warcraft 3's totally unintuitive negative armor mechanics (arbitrarily capped at -20, uses a completely different formula for calculating amplification %), or whether to use the new, intuitive mechanics (no cap, uses the reverse of the positive armor formula) and just buff -armor skills slightly to account for the fact that they'll be weaker at negative values. Theoretically, they could just buff every -armor skill in dota2 only until it was equal to the same effect as the previous value (chances are the -armors would have to be a decimal, but shouldn't be a problem). I'd be fine with that. | ||
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Qbek
Poland12923 Posts
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Comeh
United States18919 Posts
On April 26 2013 01:54 Qbek wrote: Well the only heroes that reliably go into significant negative values are slardar and dazzle. No need to buff what doesn't go into negatives It still leaves inconsistency and kind of a sitting bug in the game. Team has a TA with desolator and a LD with an AC. Suddenly, goes into negative values on any support and a handful of carries, and isn't that unrealistic. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On April 26 2013 01:52 Comeh wrote: Theoretically, they could just buff every -armor skill in dota2 only until it was equal to the same effect as the previous value (chances are the -armors would have to be a decimal, but shouldn't be a problem). I'd be fine with that. You can't do that though because "the same effect" depends how much positive armor its reducing as well. Taking from 0 armor to -20 armor is affected hugely by the bug. Taking someone from 19 armor to -1 armor isn't. | ||
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Comeh
United States18919 Posts
On April 26 2013 01:56 TheYango wrote: You can't do that though because "the same effect" depends how much positive armor its reducing as well. Taking from 0 armor to -20 armor is affected hugely by the bug. Taking someone from 19 armor to -1 armor isn't. Oh, was confused. I was think by negative armor, we were talking about minus armor (just skimmed through the bug report). Well fuck. | ||
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PassiveAce
United States18076 Posts
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Sn0_Man
Tebellong44238 Posts
Oh wait... | ||
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PassiveAce
United States18076 Posts
edit- unless the war3 editor is capable of messing with how negative armor is calculated, in which case, I am talking completely out of my asshole. | ||
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Comeh
United States18919 Posts
On April 26 2013 02:04 PassiveAce wrote: I think Yango raises a good point when he says that some of the ways in which these functions operate are just unintuitive and impractical. I wouldnt be too surprised if Icefrog was considering changing some stuff that he was just stuck with in dota1. The only problem is when it fundamentally weakens a handful of heroes and situations. It forces some kind of buff on heroes dependent on them, and even some items should look at a buff because of it. | ||
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BurningSera
Ireland19621 Posts
But nowadays teamfights can happen everywhere at around 10mins and there are many better heroes that you would give a 15min freefarm to than a slardar. Offensive trilane a slardar could work imo, but between trilaning a naix, which one would you go for? When you see even loda is playing spec more often than slardar in current maps, you would have guessed that slardar is simple a no go. Or everyone hates his fugly model. Arggggg. | ||
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FuzzyJAM
Scotland9300 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On April 26 2013 02:06 BurningSera wrote: The most basic problem of slardar lies within the hero farming ability, he literally need to farm every gold with his trident and even BurNing failed to make him work so i am really skeptical with his presence in current meta/maps. He used to be a staple CW hero (for mid-high-ish teams) whose role is initiator+semi-carry, the tempo of the game was (much) slower than current meta that you have the timing to rush a dagger or/and a vanguard at 10-15mins and then you can be very useful for the team where usually the mid game team fighs happen at post-15mins. But nowadays teamfights can happen everywhere at around 10mins and there are many better heroes that you would like to give a 15min freefarm to than a slardar. Offensive trilane a slardar could work imo, but between trilaning a naix, which one would you go for? When you see even loda is playing spec more often than slardar in current maps, you would have guessed that slardar is simple a no go. Or because of his fugly model. Arggggg. The game wasn't *that* much slower in 6.73/early 6.74, and the hero was picked all the time in China throughout that version. People were playing the same types of midgame semicarry multi-core teamcomps that we see now, just with different heroes in them. Then again, that's partly because DK/IG/LGD basically brought all things Pinoy back to China after SMM2011 (early 6.73 games all DK Slardar QoP bottle-crowing madness). | ||
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Stancel
Singapore15360 Posts
On April 26 2013 02:07 FuzzyJAM wrote: Dota 2 dead for anyone else? reddit.com/r/dota2/new/ is the best place to check usually | ||
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BurningSera
Ireland19621 Posts
On April 26 2013 02:08 TheYango wrote: The game wasn't *that* much slower in 6.73, and the hero was picked all the time in China throughout that version. Oh no i am talking way back before 6.73, i honestly didnt watch much chinese dota(1) during 2010-11 until i got my dota2 in late 2011 (but since then i watch mostly dota2). My points still stand though, to certain extend? People figuring out better timing etc and the hero getting less and less attention. ya, pinoy's fault. or the hero is just ugly. | ||
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Rayeth
United States883 Posts
On April 26 2013 02:16 BurningSera wrote: [or the hero is just ugly. Your point is very true. Slardar looks UGLY as hell. I mean who could possibly love a fish/man/slug/thing? | ||
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crms
United States11933 Posts
100% man 100% ham | ||
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Comeh
United States18919 Posts
On April 26 2013 02:51 Rayeth wrote: Your point is very true. Slardar looks UGLY as hell. I mean who could possibly love a fish/man/slug/thing? I mean, I wouldn't mind waiting for them to release every hero first and finishing other modeling and skinning projects, but they should really re-do him. He needs to be reshaped in the image of Naga. I love the variance in the google images search: https://www.google.com/search?q=slardar&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=v215UeynGunC0QGou4CQAQ&biw=1004&bih=564&sei=wm15UZ7HKszK0gHhxIHwAg#imgrc=_ Example: + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://th09.deviantart.net/fs41/PRE/i/2009/045/5/6/Slardar_by_FuryOn1989.jpg) vs + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://www.dota2wiki.com/images/7/7b/Slardar.png) | ||
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On April 26 2013 02:04 PassiveAce wrote: I think Yango raises a good point when he says that some of the ways in which these functions operate are just unintuitive and impractical. I wouldnt be too surprised if Icefrog was considering changing some stuff that he was just stuck with in dota1. edit- unless the war3 editor is capable of messing with how negative armor is calculated, in which case, I am talking completely out of my asshole. No, you can't change the armor formula; Only mess with how much armor things provide or change the coefficient for positive armor. | ||
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Benjef
United Kingdom6921 Posts
I actually like his dota 2 model  . | ||
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