EPTdoes he plan on dictating how the game is going to be played, through continuous patches? or is he looking for the perfect balance (starcraft), so that the game will eventually evolve on its own. imo icefrog patching the game over and over just to change the meta is not the best solution.
General Discussion - Page 2579
| Forum Index > Dota 2 General |
IRC chatter should remain in IRC - http://webchat.quakenet.org/?channels=tl.dota2 Posts that relate to topics with their own thread, such as in News, Tournaments or Strategy should go in those threads. | ||
|
evilfatsh1t
Australia8923 Posts
does he plan on dictating how the game is going to be played, through continuous patches? or is he looking for the perfect balance (starcraft), so that the game will eventually evolve on its own. imo icefrog patching the game over and over just to change the meta is not the best solution. | ||
|
NB
Netherlands12045 Posts
On April 13 2013 18:25 evilfatsh1t wrote: i wonder how long icefrog is going to keep patching the game does he plan on dictating how the game is going to be played, through continuous patches? or is he looking for the perfect balance (starcraft), so that the game will eventually evolve on its own. imo icefrog patching the game over and over just to change the meta is not the best solution. The purpose of patches isnt always for balancing but also to producing new contents. By introducing new hero, you providing new contents to the game which will disturb the meta. There were many patches in the past that were considered overall 'balanced' but you have to move on eventually. Without new contents, players wont get attached and will grow tired of the game. | ||
|
rabidch
United States20289 Posts
On April 13 2013 18:12 NB wrote: Posts like this counts as personal attack or what? And whats up with the LGD.cn stream? Anyone mind give me a rough run down of the running text on top? I havent seen they play yet but watching an iG replay and running ads and wait screen. edit: rabidch got great points about having a support taking level instead of doing shit. But again, even smoke gank are almost impossible to execute now a day before 6mins mark, most of the supports are used to protect their trilane and secure farm for their carries. The roaming meta is no longer work with the chinese play style, a simply mia could easily drive their solo mid back to hugging tier 2 tower and stuff like chen/enchan smoke behind tower only still work in the long lane today, but less and less. The idea came to mind when i was watching Loda draft that orge magi game with treant around a safe lane LD: safe lane LD, mid mag/puck(CC solo mid with escape mechanism) and trilane treant+ 2 supports. I just happen to think that treant with the fissure block thing has a lot of synergy: treant could last hit under tower and heal the tower if it is pushed. He could provide healing for ES which obviously gona spam clarity if the 2nd support isnt kotl. With treant healing, the others 2 lanes can hardly lose either. Again, I am not claiming that this GONA work. Im just saying that there are room to experiment around with the pathing of DotA2. Even Liquid admitted that they lost a game to fnatic due to late game fissure blocking push, i think there are room for the hero in the current meta. smoke ganks are always possible before 6 minutes, chinese teams will do and have done it if they have a strong roaming duo | ||
|
drew-chan
Malaysia1517 Posts
On April 13 2013 18:12 NB wrote: Posts like this counts as personal attack or what? And whats up with the LGD.cn stream? Anyone mind give me a rough run down of the running text on top? I havent seen they play yet but watching an iG replay and running ads and wait screen. edit: rabidch got great points about having a support taking level instead of doing shit. But again, even smoke gank are almost impossible to execute now a day before 6mins mark, most of the supports are used to protect their trilane and secure farm for their carries. The roaming meta is no longer work with the chinese play style, a simply mia could easily drive their solo mid back to hugging tier 2 tower and stuff like chen/enchan smoke behind tower only still work in the long lane today, but less and less. The idea came to mind when i was watching Loda draft that orge magi game with treant around a safe lane LD: safe lane LD, mid mag/puck(CC solo mid with escape mechanism) and trilane treant+ 2 supports. I just happen to think that treant with the fissure block thing has a lot of synergy: treant could last hit under tower and heal the tower if it is pushed. He could provide healing for ES which obviously gona spam clarity if the 2nd support isnt kotl. With treant healing, the others 2 lanes can hardly lose either. Again, I am not claiming that this GONA work. Im just saying that there are room to experiment around with the pathing of DotA2. Even Liquid admitted that they lost a game to fnatic due to late game fissure blocking push, i think there are room for the hero in the current meta. The text on top roughly translate to "Welcome to LGD.cn's Chinese Stream. First person view, Matches, and other interesting events broadcasted here!" | ||
|
igotmyown
United States4291 Posts
| ||
|
Appendix
Sweden979 Posts
Never realised this wasn't the same as in Dota 1. So many man fights determined by that well timed level up. | ||
|
Gheizen64
Italy2077 Posts
On April 13 2013 19:13 Appendix wrote: http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=34489 Never realised this wasn't the same as in Dota 1. So many man fights determined by that well timed level up. This saved me SO MANY TIMES in Dota1, creep near die while i'm almost dead, level up, gain 60 hp, fuck ur opponent. | ||
|
hydrogg
United States377 Posts
On April 13 2013 18:30 NB wrote: The purpose of patches isnt always for balancing but also to producing new contents. By introducing new hero, you providing new contents to the game which will disturb the meta. There were many patches in the past that were considered overall 'balanced' but you have to move on eventually. Without new contents, players wont get attached and will grow tired of the game. Dota doesnt sound like a very good game if people will get bored of it and the meta cant change without patches. Other games I play (Counter Strike 1.6 and Brood War) don't get balance patches and the meta still changes and people still play it. | ||
|
zeru
8156 Posts
| ||
|
Nilrem
United States3684 Posts
Pretty much this. Flavor of the month seems to be the best way of explaining the changes. | ||
|
SKC
Brazil18828 Posts
On April 13 2013 20:00 hydrogg wrote: Dota doesnt sound like a very good game if people will get bored of it and the meta cant change without patches. Other games I play (Counter Strike 1.6 and Brood War) don't get balance patches and the meta still changes and people still play it. Yet Brood War gets constant map changes, which are similar to hero changes in Dota. It would be a lot worse for Starcraft if people still only played on the original set of maps. It's very common for the game to change in one way or another over the years. CS did stay very similar for a very long time, but it is a common complaint that the map pool never changes. | ||
|
Yoshi-
Germany10227 Posts
| ||
|
Slomo
Germany7198 Posts
 | ||
|
Gheizen64
Italy2077 Posts
On April 13 2013 20:00 hydrogg wrote: Dota doesnt sound like a very good game if people will get bored of it and the meta cant change without patches. Other games I play (Counter Strike 1.6 and Brood War) don't get balance patches and the meta still changes and people still play it. Never played CS, but Q3A had new maps, and the same goes true for Broodwar. In dota the map stay the same, and the heroes slightly changes and we get new things from time to time. I prefer how dota do it if just because it's easier to get excited for hero changes and it's easier to see what those changes will do to the game, even while more often than not those predictions are wrong. And you also know all heroes are viable at different times because of this, so there's never a "best" strategy. | ||
|
Rybka
United States836 Posts
On April 13 2013 20:00 hydrogg wrote: Dota doesnt sound like a very good game if people will get bored of it and the meta cant change without patches. Other games I play (Counter Strike 1.6 and Brood War) don't get balance patches and the meta still changes and people still play it. The "meta" on CS competition maps hasn't changed for years... The "meta" in Quake hasn't changed for years... | ||
|
Daozzt
United States1263 Posts
| ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On April 13 2013 21:37 SKC wrote: Yet Brood War gets constant map changes, which are similar to hero changes in Dota. It would be a lot worse for Starcraft if people still only played on the original set of maps. It's very common for the game to change in one way or another over the years. CS did stay very similar for a very long time, but it is a common complaint that the map pool never changes. Pretty much this. "Balance" as it applies to an RTS game isn't a concept that really applies that much to DotA. In Starcraft, a player generally makes a lasting, long-term decision to play one race and therefore there is an expectation of balance between the races out of fairness to players who chose different races. There is not the same expectation in DotA. You don't commit to a particular hero or role. So the only equivalent point of "balance" for the sake of fairness is the Scourge/Sentinel map balance, and the 1st pick/2nd pick draft balance. Any changes to heroes are fair to both teams unless they have a specific effect on those former two points because both sides can pick the hero. Content changes Icefrog makes to DotA aren't for balance in this sense, but rather to change the way the game plays. Icefrog as a game designer has a certain feel for what aspects of the game are fun for people and what aren't, and content changes are generally done for this purpose. For example, many of the changes to heroes over the past few patches have been geared toward creating more early action and trying to tone down games involving a lot of pushing/stalling and very little ganking/teamfighting (split-pushing carries, Chen/Enigma/Furion/Lycan nerfs in 6.75, XP/gold changes to encourage ganking, etc.). Again, these things aren't balance-related, because they're fundamentally fair to both sides of the game, but they're done to change how the game plays. And of course, as others have mentioned, even games that have no new content patches continue to change due to map changes to prevent stagnation. DotA has a fixed map, so content changes are required to keep the game dynamic in this way. | ||
|
dotaPROFTW
Armenia6 Posts
| ||
|
cecek
Czech Republic18921 Posts
This is the coolest thing I have seen in quite a while! Using Kinect motion capture to animate a Dota 2 character. :D | ||
|
PassiveAce
United States18076 Posts
On April 14 2013 03:12 cecek wrote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHImF-IOH1Q This is the coolest thing I have seen in quite a while! Using Kinect motion capture to animate a Dota 2 character. :D That is awesome! | ||
| ||
