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Ok, so they added Spectre into the game I see.
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On January 31 2013 07:20 Nevuk wrote:
Ok, so they added Spectre into the game I see.
Not quite - just added textures and some animations. We might see her added in a few months.
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On January 31 2013 05:51 TheEmulator wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 05:49 Firebolt145 wrote:On January 31 2013 05:47 uNiGNoRe wrote:
GG Firebolt145. Not easy to not win with Batrider, Undying and pro SF. GG, was definitely the most competent team I've had in a while ^_^ Hey hey hey, wait a minute here, what about when you play with me and the staff guys  lol jk.
Hey hey hey, what about when you queued with me
Deadly fucking serious
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On January 31 2013 06:55 Comeh wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 06:49 Nevuk wrote:On January 31 2013 06:33 Comeh wrote:On January 31 2013 06:26 Nevuk wrote:
I prefer the 2 ban first system... it gets silly when a hero is at autoban status like old lycan or naga and teams just ban them. It's much preferable to see teams develop counters to the heroes/strategies employed to use them than it is to just never see those heroes.
There are minor balance things I personally think, but that's different from straight up thinking stuff is OP outside of pub games. PL agi growth makes him really annoying in pubs now.
It's a lot easier to make the case that a hero is underpowered than that they are overpowered (Spectre for instance). I would argue that some heroes (mainly batrider and Nyx atm, i'll be interested to see how kotl comes along) are pretty much autoban status. They almost never get through lately. They're frequently banned but not the same way as Naga/Lycan (being like <10 games in TI2 where they weren't banned, and being banned/picked in EVERY game). No one knew how to deal with either until Na'vi's counter to siren and Lycan just got hit with the nerf bat. Bat/Nyx are versatile heroes who can both do a large variety of roles that give very little away by picking them early. Bat jungle/mid/trilane, nyx mid or trilane support. In g-league teams were banning TA over batrider vs lgd.int for a while (something to do with G's mid TA). KotL has less to do with the hero as it does overall strategy of the team - no one is going to pick Brood vs kotl (and PL is unlikely as well), KotL is just amazing at countering pushes even at level 2. edit - also BH track -armor was nerfed, Bat was nerfed as well (2.7 str gain was silly) I would argue it has quite a bit to do with Kotl indeed - his ability to supply you with infinite mana in a trilane vs trilane situation, as well as having one of the more dominating lane nukes is really powerful and almost guarantees the other team to feel really scared to run a trilane against you. His ability to farm up stacked jungle camps and get a reasonably timed mek for a hero that sits in the 4/5 slot is really valuable as well.
Visage always worked well vs kotl in the past as he's essentially the single target kotl in tri vs tri. also he can just stand there and take the illuminate like a boss. so visage normally let syou just kill the hgihest position over and over again so kotls resulting illuminates are being used to clear waves to defend a tower rather than do anything useful for the carry.
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On January 31 2013 07:33 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 06:55 Comeh wrote:On January 31 2013 06:49 Nevuk wrote:On January 31 2013 06:33 Comeh wrote:On January 31 2013 06:26 Nevuk wrote:
I prefer the 2 ban first system... it gets silly when a hero is at autoban status like old lycan or naga and teams just ban them. It's much preferable to see teams develop counters to the heroes/strategies employed to use them than it is to just never see those heroes.
There are minor balance things I personally think, but that's different from straight up thinking stuff is OP outside of pub games. PL agi growth makes him really annoying in pubs now.
It's a lot easier to make the case that a hero is underpowered than that they are overpowered (Spectre for instance). I would argue that some heroes (mainly batrider and Nyx atm, i'll be interested to see how kotl comes along) are pretty much autoban status. They almost never get through lately. They're frequently banned but not the same way as Naga/Lycan (being like <10 games in TI2 where they weren't banned, and being banned/picked in EVERY game). No one knew how to deal with either until Na'vi's counter to siren and Lycan just got hit with the nerf bat. Bat/Nyx are versatile heroes who can both do a large variety of roles that give very little away by picking them early. Bat jungle/mid/trilane, nyx mid or trilane support. In g-league teams were banning TA over batrider vs lgd.int for a while (something to do with G's mid TA). KotL has less to do with the hero as it does overall strategy of the team - no one is going to pick Brood vs kotl (and PL is unlikely as well), KotL is just amazing at countering pushes even at level 2. edit - also BH track -armor was nerfed, Bat was nerfed as well (2.7 str gain was silly) I would argue it has quite a bit to do with Kotl indeed - his ability to supply you with infinite mana in a trilane vs trilane situation, as well as having one of the more dominating lane nukes is really powerful and almost guarantees the other team to feel really scared to run a trilane against you. His ability to farm up stacked jungle camps and get a reasonably timed mek for a hero that sits in the 4/5 slot is really valuable as well. Visage always worked well vs kotl in the past as he's essentially the single target kotl in tri vs tri. also he can just stand there and take the illuminate like a boss. so visage normally let syou just kill the hgihest position over and over again so kotls resulting illuminates are being used to clear waves to defend a tower rather than do anything useful for the carry.
Visage is a really underated hero, and isn't as hard to play as many make him out to be. Drafted him yesterday, worked great (actually I think i drafted him with a kotl as well...maybe overkill)
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On January 31 2013 07:35 Comeh wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 07:33 PrinceXizor wrote:On January 31 2013 06:55 Comeh wrote:On January 31 2013 06:49 Nevuk wrote:On January 31 2013 06:33 Comeh wrote:On January 31 2013 06:26 Nevuk wrote:
I prefer the 2 ban first system... it gets silly when a hero is at autoban status like old lycan or naga and teams just ban them. It's much preferable to see teams develop counters to the heroes/strategies employed to use them than it is to just never see those heroes.
There are minor balance things I personally think, but that's different from straight up thinking stuff is OP outside of pub games. PL agi growth makes him really annoying in pubs now.
It's a lot easier to make the case that a hero is underpowered than that they are overpowered (Spectre for instance). I would argue that some heroes (mainly batrider and Nyx atm, i'll be interested to see how kotl comes along) are pretty much autoban status. They almost never get through lately. They're frequently banned but not the same way as Naga/Lycan (being like <10 games in TI2 where they weren't banned, and being banned/picked in EVERY game). No one knew how to deal with either until Na'vi's counter to siren and Lycan just got hit with the nerf bat. Bat/Nyx are versatile heroes who can both do a large variety of roles that give very little away by picking them early. Bat jungle/mid/trilane, nyx mid or trilane support. In g-league teams were banning TA over batrider vs lgd.int for a while (something to do with G's mid TA). KotL has less to do with the hero as it does overall strategy of the team - no one is going to pick Brood vs kotl (and PL is unlikely as well), KotL is just amazing at countering pushes even at level 2. edit - also BH track -armor was nerfed, Bat was nerfed as well (2.7 str gain was silly) I would argue it has quite a bit to do with Kotl indeed - his ability to supply you with infinite mana in a trilane vs trilane situation, as well as having one of the more dominating lane nukes is really powerful and almost guarantees the other team to feel really scared to run a trilane against you. His ability to farm up stacked jungle camps and get a reasonably timed mek for a hero that sits in the 4/5 slot is really valuable as well. Visage always worked well vs kotl in the past as he's essentially the single target kotl in tri vs tri. also he can just stand there and take the illuminate like a boss. so visage normally let syou just kill the hgihest position over and over again so kotls resulting illuminates are being used to clear waves to defend a tower rather than do anything useful for the carry. Visage is a really underated hero, and isn't as hard to play as many make him out to be. Drafted him yesterday, worked great (actually I think i drafted him with a kotl as well...maybe overkill)
well he was used during the great tri lane era, and when jungles became more popular he noticeably stopped being used and he's hard to use for pubs the way panda is hard to use for pubs. people good with him can make plays no one else can but he's not particularly hard to use with just the basics.
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On January 31 2013 07:38 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On January 31 2013 07:35 Comeh wrote:On January 31 2013 07:33 PrinceXizor wrote:On January 31 2013 06:55 Comeh wrote:On January 31 2013 06:49 Nevuk wrote:On January 31 2013 06:33 Comeh wrote:On January 31 2013 06:26 Nevuk wrote:
I prefer the 2 ban first system... it gets silly when a hero is at autoban status like old lycan or naga and teams just ban them. It's much preferable to see teams develop counters to the heroes/strategies employed to use them than it is to just never see those heroes.
There are minor balance things I personally think, but that's different from straight up thinking stuff is OP outside of pub games. PL agi growth makes him really annoying in pubs now.
It's a lot easier to make the case that a hero is underpowered than that they are overpowered (Spectre for instance). I would argue that some heroes (mainly batrider and Nyx atm, i'll be interested to see how kotl comes along) are pretty much autoban status. They almost never get through lately. They're frequently banned but not the same way as Naga/Lycan (being like <10 games in TI2 where they weren't banned, and being banned/picked in EVERY game). No one knew how to deal with either until Na'vi's counter to siren and Lycan just got hit with the nerf bat. Bat/Nyx are versatile heroes who can both do a large variety of roles that give very little away by picking them early. Bat jungle/mid/trilane, nyx mid or trilane support. In g-league teams were banning TA over batrider vs lgd.int for a while (something to do with G's mid TA). KotL has less to do with the hero as it does overall strategy of the team - no one is going to pick Brood vs kotl (and PL is unlikely as well), KotL is just amazing at countering pushes even at level 2. edit - also BH track -armor was nerfed, Bat was nerfed as well (2.7 str gain was silly) I would argue it has quite a bit to do with Kotl indeed - his ability to supply you with infinite mana in a trilane vs trilane situation, as well as having one of the more dominating lane nukes is really powerful and almost guarantees the other team to feel really scared to run a trilane against you. His ability to farm up stacked jungle camps and get a reasonably timed mek for a hero that sits in the 4/5 slot is really valuable as well. Visage always worked well vs kotl in the past as he's essentially the single target kotl in tri vs tri. also he can just stand there and take the illuminate like a boss. so visage normally let syou just kill the hgihest position over and over again so kotls resulting illuminates are being used to clear waves to defend a tower rather than do anything useful for the carry. Visage is a really underated hero, and isn't as hard to play as many make him out to be. Drafted him yesterday, worked great (actually I think i drafted him with a kotl as well...maybe overkill) well he was used during the great tri lane era, and when jungles became more popular he noticeably stopped being used and he's hard to use for pubs the way panda is hard to use for pubs. people good with him can make plays no one else can but he's not particularly hard to use with just the basics.
Problem is a bad Visage feeds harder than any other hero except maybe Broodmother. Gargoyles so juicy.
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Czech Republic18921 Posts
How do you people play Slark? I usually max pounce first, essence shift second, keeping dark pact level one. With this skill build, I like going for diffusal and gank a lot, basically play him similar to riki. purge -> pounce, or pounce -> purge is a pretty good combo to allow you to do a bunch of rightclicks. I know dark pact does a lot of damage, but I don't feel confident using it as a nuke when I'm going diffusal, because you're really squishy.
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On January 31 2013 07:47 cecek wrote:
How do you people play Slark? I usually max pounce first, essence shift second, keeping dark pact level one. With this skill build, I like going for diffusal and gank a lot, basically play him similar to riki. purge -> pounce, or pounce -> purge is a pretty good combo to allow you to do a bunch of rightclicks. I know dark pact does a lot of damage, but I don't feel confident using it as a nuke when I'm going diffusal, because you're really squishy.
being squishy doesn't matter that much, seeing as how you can dart out of combat with ez and regen.
I see your point, but imo dark pact is the smarter to max along with pounce - you just become so much more deadly in the earlier stages of the game.
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armlet lets you do next level plays
and definitely max pact second with just one point in essence shift bein enough
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Sometimes getting an early level or two into the stat steal can be good for slark. (situational. And sorry, totally forgot the name of the ability, but its really good early too).
I would personally go Pounce first (top priority maxing this first). Then stat steal at lvl 2, and possibly 3rd level also. Then proceed to max Pact + pounce.
His 3rd skill is actually pretty good to pick up a level of because it can increase your damage by 20-30 in just 2 auto attacks.
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Lalalaland34505 Posts
Last time I played slark (which I don't do often) I went max pounce, followed by dark pact with 1 level of essence steal at lvl 4. Went for boots -> orb of venom -> treads -> skadi IIRC. Worked well but was only one game.
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I don't really like the orb of venom early. Maybe I'm just stubborn but I generally get something like early vit booster and then just kill shit. Maybe a fast BKB too. He doesn't really need damage I felt, just needed hp to tank stuff and dart in and out of combat. I was safe lane farming until got some levels then constant roam so went Dark pact > Pounce > steal. I can see pounce being good maxed first but I think it depends on how fast you are getting levels early. Dark pact lets you farm jungle really fast in between killing stuff so it's nice to have it highest early on.
Slark feels like a hero that is infinitely better when he has no items. It's a really strange feeling when I played him. Super strong early on when noone has items but as he gets he just feels like ass hence why I advocate just going super mid game tempo items. I could be playing/building him completely wrong though.
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Czech Republic18921 Posts
Skadi seems too expensive to go for after boots. Feels like you're running around with just ultimate orbs for quite a long time, and ultimate orbs don't do much. Armlet sounds really interesting, actually I have to try that. I guess I should give maxing death pact another go. I just feel like when you don't have any hp items, you can't afford to take 150 damage unless you're purely ganking someone.
Also a build I tried was hardcarry slark: midas first, 1 deathpact, 1 pounce, max essence shift + stats and farm all game. It's not too great, but Slark compares surprisingly well to other carries when you farm him.
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I agree with dark pact feeling bad with no hp items, I rush HP items so feels fine. It'll be interesting to compare how we play and how we build slark since I feel he's a hero people haven't really figured out just yet. I tried armlet out one game and it felt quite cool just the game sucked ass.
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theres a reason why all wodota nightcrawlers have armlet, synergizes with the hero extremely well
trust me its really strong
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On January 31 2013 07:47 cecek wrote:
How do you people play Slark? I usually max pounce first, essence shift second, keeping dark pact level one. With this skill build, I like going for diffusal and gank a lot, basically play him similar to riki. purge -> pounce, or pounce -> purge is a pretty good combo to allow you to do a bunch of rightclicks. I know dark pact does a lot of damage, but I don't feel confident using it as a nuke when I'm going diffusal, because you're really squishy.
Essence shift is bugged in dota 2, it steals bonus attributes rather than base attributes ( http://dev.dota2.com/showthread.php?t=65303 ). I'm not quite sure if this makes it weaker or stronger (I think weaker?)
Anyways, the ways I've seen most people build slark are to either max the pounce or pact with one point in essence shift. Max pounce if you like ganking, max pact for rapid farming. Either way the nukes are maxed first almost always, the reason being that 15 seconds is typically longer than it should take you to kill someone and the burst damage is better for ganking than an extra 15 seconds of stealing agi. I've seen some good arguments for 2 points in essence shift, but slark can't (shouldn't be able to) exactly harass in lane.
I typically have seen skadi rush - the reason behind it being that point booster and oov are both very good items for slark. He suffers from mana issues if he's running around ganking and his passive hp regen is based on max hp rather than strength. boots, oov, pms, stick, point booster is my typical build on him. There's not really a need to rush skadi, but you do already have 1475 gold of it so it's a bit more reasonable to get.
The old pub build of mask of madness basher on slark just feels really weak.
Armlet sounds fun but I would still get a point booster first because the individual pieces of the armlet do very little for slark.
edit - math fail
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Maxing pact lets you put the fear of the slark into the enemy and go farm the jungle after 6 and then come out get a kill and go back to farming. If you want Wodota-ness, get armlet force staff shadow blade and just enjoy,
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I think tobi might become the third member of lo3, he is advertising them with tweets and reddit, and wheat asked him in an earlier episode if he wants to dota2 stuff for them, but toby denied due to his own3d binding.
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On January 31 2013 08:37 Yoshi- wrote:
I think tobi might become the third member of lo3, he is advertising them with tweets and reddit, and wheat asked him in an earlier episode if he wants to dota2 stuff for them, but toby denied due to his own3d binding.
That'd be cool. i love wheat so much xD. any more dedication to dota 2 from him is good.
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EPT
