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On January 30 2013 06:09 TheYango wrote:
The other non-trivial limitation of Halberd that it costs 100 mana to use, which is actually somewhat significant for Strength heroes with poor intel/intel gain.
Meh, to me the biggest issue single handily should be A: Magic immunity and B: you can essentially buy a mek/hood for the price difference. If you are beyond godlike, than yeah, sure, get a HH.
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On January 30 2013 05:58 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 05:56 PrinceXizor wrote:On January 30 2013 05:55 PassiveAce wrote:
Would it make sense on clockwork in some situations? in general it would be pretty good on clock, but the cost makes it prohibitive. and clock rarely needs the maim. Clock also has low base armor. Buying armor or Ghost Scepter enhance your survivability vs. physical damage much more cost-effectively than the Evasion does.
Wow I just realized that ghost scepter on clock is amazing......................
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On January 30 2013 06:12 Comeh wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 06:09 TheYango wrote:
The other non-trivial limitation of Halberd that it costs 100 mana to use, which is actually somewhat significant for Strength heroes with poor intel/intel gain. Meh, to me the biggest issue single handily should be A: Magic immunity and B: you can essentially buy a mek/hood for the price difference. If you are beyond godlike, than yeah, sure, get a HH.
I'm still in the camp for HH is a core item on cwg. It builds from strength/chasing/survivability items. Regardless if each part of that (evasion for example) is the MOST cost effective, it still fills in all the niches that need to be filled. I don't like to take too much farm on clock anyway, because he will fall off later, but a 14 minute sange into 20 minute HH is the latest I'll get it.
This is assuming you are using clockwork to camp their carry, which probably has a high auto-attack damage. Armor would be nice, but I usually get a ring of basi (or just protection) early on him anyway. The evasion is plenty effective at shutting down the ranged dude sitting outside the cogs. As for spell protection, the high base health and additional health from the sange is usually enough. If they are spamming all their nukes on you, then take the death and cry all your way to the victory screen.
EDIT: ehue... now I want to write a clockwork guide....
A ton of people like to get early forcestaff/blink dagger on him as well (first item) because of his reliance on positioning when ganking/chasing. I still think that item #1 is always sange (wtf, really? yeah, sange is a fantastic item, deal with it). From there you branch out for the game. If you are planning on constantly rolling their jungle with some friends, I think the HH is the way to go, because of the ability to disable an autoattacker during that phase of the game is seriously fantastic.
The bkb is an option for second item if there is enough aoe nukes and disables (warlock) where you are having trouble surviving while diving, but honestly, the strength from sange is huge at that ganking phase of the game. Its basically two straight up, single target nukes worth of health, which means two less nukes your teammates who went utility/damage items are taking. I don't want to take that effectiveness away by getting the bkb before my teammates can survive the nuke onslaught.
Clockwork is a tank, and should be played with that in mind. Eating nukes and forcing their carry to run instead of attacking is your goal. You already have a build in initiator in your kit, and a threatening anti-carry combo in cogs/battery, the next step is survivability. In the fine text of bkb, it clearly states that it "Removes the big red arrow over your head, forcing people to attack you", also known as the "blade-mail effect". That's why im against it (too early).
Also, necrobook is an acceptable first item (on everyone.)
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United States47024 Posts
Vit+Mek or Hood+Mek have a greater teamfight presence in the 15-20 minute range than Sange/Halberd on Clock.
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or get aghas 
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aghs is too fun on clock.
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Czech Republic18921 Posts
Oh my god, don't ever say Zet Es Em Jay, ugh. It's Zee Es Em Jay.
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On January 30 2013 06:29 PassiveAce wrote:
aghs is too fun on clock.
Aghs + blink should be core. If you've never built blink on clock, you haven't had fun before.
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United States47024 Posts
On January 30 2013 06:28 Qbek wrote:or get aghas
Agha doesn't do all that much for you early on. You need to get to the point where you're tanky enough to survive long enough to use Hook multiple times in a fight to get the most out of agha.
Vit/Mek/Pipe/Shiva/Ghost in some combination get you to that point.
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On January 30 2013 06:31 TheYango wrote:Agha doesn't do all that much for you early on. You need to get to the point where you're tanky enough to survive long enough to use Hook multiple times in a fight to get the most out of agha. Vit/Mek/Pipe/Shiva/Ghost in some combination get you to that point.
I'd suggest point booster over vit booster, otherwise I agree
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I like to buy halberd on beastmaster, if I want him to be super tanky, after treads and drums. Though I think that the other mentioned items items like necrobook/pipe/heart/ac/... are often better, if you can afford them. But sometimes that's a big "IF".
Other heroes that I believe can make good use of halberd situationally are omniknight and nightstalker (if you feel that physical damage is a greater threat than spells).
And maybe huskar, if you can resist the urge to go lifesteal on him.
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United States47024 Posts
If you have Arcanes/Bottle/Wand the mana from Point Booster doesn't actually really go anywhere, which means the difference between Point and Vit is paying 1100 for 250 HP that more or less doesn't build into anything vs. paying 1200 for 200 HP that eventually builds into your Agha.
Usually if you're doing well, the difference doesn't matter enough and you'd rather just have the faster Agha, but there are games where you want the immediate cost-effectiveness of a casual Vit Booster.
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On January 30 2013 06:29 cecek wrote:
Oh my god, don't ever say Zet Es Em Jay, ugh. It's Zee Es Em Jay.
It's Tobi. Shookie, Spectrah, Orchids of the malovelence and the list goes on
I like how he was also complaining about G-League finals date. But nvm that.
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Chuan stream LR finally got its own thread <3. Glorious facecam though ;D
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Phase boots aghanims all day for clock. all day.
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On January 30 2013 06:31 TheYango wrote:Agha doesn't do all that much for you early on. You need to get to the point where you're tanky enough to survive long enough to use Hook multiple times in a fight to get the most out of agha. Vit/Mek/Pipe/Shiva/Ghost in some combination get you to that point.
only shiva on that list actually helps you kill people,. If you're just going to build him for team fights, you're missing the best part of him (lvl 6-12 ganking and rolling woods). Might as well pick a better team-fighter if thats all you're planning on using him for.
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United States47024 Posts
On January 30 2013 06:43 RoyGBiv_13 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 06:31 TheYango wrote:On January 30 2013 06:28 Qbek wrote:or get aghas Agha doesn't do all that much for you early on. You need to get to the point where you're tanky enough to survive long enough to use Hook multiple times in a fight to get the most out of agha. Vit/Mek/Pipe/Shiva/Ghost in some combination get you to that point. only shiva on that list actually helps you kill people,. If you're just going to build him for team fights, you're missing the best part of him (lvl 6-12 ganking and rolling woods). Might as well pick a better team-fighter if thats all you're planning on using him for.
Your killing power comes from the inherent strengths of your kit.
As an off-laner (as is pretty much the usual way to play Clock), your farm/level distribution is going to be very lopsided toward having high levels, low gold. Level 6-12 basically is going to be going from Bottle+Boots to something like Bottle/Arcanes/Wand/Vit/Mek. There's very few "killing" items you'd actually fit into that period of time even if you wanted.
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On January 30 2013 06:47 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 06:43 RoyGBiv_13 wrote:On January 30 2013 06:31 TheYango wrote:On January 30 2013 06:28 Qbek wrote:or get aghas Agha doesn't do all that much for you early on. You need to get to the point where you're tanky enough to survive long enough to use Hook multiple times in a fight to get the most out of agha. Vit/Mek/Pipe/Shiva/Ghost in some combination get you to that point. only shiva on that list actually helps you kill people,. If you're just going to build him for team fights, you're missing the best part of him (lvl 6-12 ganking and rolling woods). Might as well pick a better team-fighter if thats all you're planning on using him for. Your killing power comes from the inherent strengths of your kit. As an off-laner (as is pretty much the usual way to play Clock), your farm/level distribution is going to be very lopsided toward having high levels, low gold. Level 6-12 basically is going to be going from Bottle+Boots to Bottle/Arcanes/Wand/Vit/Mek. There's very few "killing" items you'd actually fit into that period of time even if you wanted.
I think he's talking about the empty inventory dagon build.
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2GD just announced that statsman bruno will be joining the GD studio full time for their dota 2 stuff. Sweet.
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Aghs clockwerk allows you to be spiderman, not sure there is any better skill upgrade with aghanim out there.
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EPT
