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United States47024 Posts
Halberd doesn't have the same raw utility as Force Staff.
Halberd is very useful in scenarios where Strength carries need the Evasion/Disarm to be able to fight it out with the enemy carry. Often these scenarios are losing scenarios, though, because in scenarios where you're winning as a Strength carry, Assault Cuirass is a better item for enhancing your (and your team's) survivability vs. physical damage and shutting out the game.
On heroes that aren't Strength carries, the low comparative usefulness of the Evasion hurts the item. Butterfly is much more cost-effective for Agi carries, and for Strength/Intel non-carries, it's competing with Ghost Scepter and Armor items for physical survivability. Evasion's % increase to physical EHP actually doesn't compare that well with armor unless you already have high base armor.
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Would it make sense on clockwork in some situations?
Im having a hard time trying to think of when halberd would be preferable to some other survivability/damage item.
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On January 30 2013 05:55 PassiveAce wrote:
Would it make sense on clockwork in some situations?
in general it would be pretty good on clock, but the cost makes it prohibitive. and clock rarely needs the maim.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
Halberds evasion is an underated part of the item, Disarm is really good though.
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United States47024 Posts
On January 30 2013 05:56 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 05:55 PassiveAce wrote:
Would it make sense on clockwork in some situations? in general it would be pretty good on clock, but the cost makes it prohibitive. and clock rarely needs the maim.
Clock also has low base armor. Buying armor or Ghost Scepter enhance your survivability vs. physical damage much more cost-effectively than the Evasion does.
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On January 30 2013 05:55 PassiveAce wrote:
Would it make sense on clockwork in some situations?
Im having a hard time trying to think of when halberd would be preferable to some other survivability item.
It makes sense on a lot of heroes in some situations - the problem is whether or not you could be getting a better item for near the same price. In most situations, the answer is yes. I'm a big fan of mek / pipe / necrobook (awesome on him) / (undecided on blink or force on him, in theory seems good) / and some people like blade mail or scepter. And then you have to wonder whether or not its worth getting a 3850 halberd, or just settle for a 1600 ghost scepter. Its hard to convince myself to get a Halberd.
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On January 30 2013 05:58 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 05:56 PrinceXizor wrote:On January 30 2013 05:55 PassiveAce wrote:
Would it make sense on clockwork in some situations? in general it would be pretty good on clock, but the cost makes it prohibitive. and clock rarely needs the maim. Clock also has low base armor. Buying armor or Ghost Scepter enhance your survivability vs. physical damage much more cost-effectively than the Evasion does.
and yet,disarming someone you cog'd is a really good way of not needing armor.
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On January 30 2013 05:49 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 05:46 Talron wrote:
Phoenix Icarus Dive also used to disarm until his recent 9001st remake. and @ above: Roof overgrowth prevents attacking / disarms.
But I see halberd as an underrated item in general - partly because of the lack of heroes, who make huge use of it, bar the disarm ability. It's gonna end up like forcestaff in the future, being bought in every game, because it's just that good in the end. A disarm doesn't prevent movement. Overgrowth can't be counted as a disarm.
It's a disarm AND a root. Think of it that way 
When I talked about halberd being "the next forcestaff" I mean in distant future, maybe in 2-3 versions / after few buffs. For example if they'd make it non-dispellable or even pirece through BKB it would already be a toptier / borderline OP item. Or decrease manacost and increase the castrange. It obviously will never have the utility of forcestaff, unless the effects will be overhauled completely. Even in it's current form I think it's underused.
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United States47024 Posts
On January 30 2013 06:00 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 05:58 TheYango wrote:On January 30 2013 05:56 PrinceXizor wrote:On January 30 2013 05:55 PassiveAce wrote:
Would it make sense on clockwork in some situations? in general it would be pretty good on clock, but the cost makes it prohibitive. and clock rarely needs the maim. Clock also has low base armor. Buying armor or Ghost Scepter enhance your survivability vs. physical damage much more cost-effectively than the Evasion does. and yet,disarming someone you cog'd is a really good way of not needing armor.
Functionally identical to Ghost Sceptering when they're locked in with you in most cases.
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On January 30 2013 06:02 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 06:00 PrinceXizor wrote:On January 30 2013 05:58 TheYango wrote:On January 30 2013 05:56 PrinceXizor wrote:On January 30 2013 05:55 PassiveAce wrote:
Would it make sense on clockwork in some situations? in general it would be pretty good on clock, but the cost makes it prohibitive. and clock rarely needs the maim. Clock also has low base armor. Buying armor or Ghost Scepter enhance your survivability vs. physical damage much more cost-effectively than the Evasion does. and yet,disarming someone you cog'd is a really good way of not needing armor. Functionally identical to Ghost Sceptering when they're locked in with you in most cases.
except you get to attack. in 99% of cases when you are cog'd in with someone its better to be attacking them than walking around unable to do anything. especially if they deal magic damage. i'd rather disarm than ghost scepter while cogging someone 100% of the time.
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On January 30 2013 06:02 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 06:02 TheYango wrote:On January 30 2013 06:00 PrinceXizor wrote:On January 30 2013 05:58 TheYango wrote:On January 30 2013 05:56 PrinceXizor wrote:On January 30 2013 05:55 PassiveAce wrote:
Would it make sense on clockwork in some situations? in general it would be pretty good on clock, but the cost makes it prohibitive. and clock rarely needs the maim. Clock also has low base armor. Buying armor or Ghost Scepter enhance your survivability vs. physical damage much more cost-effectively than the Evasion does. and yet,disarming someone you cog'd is a really good way of not needing armor. Functionally identical to Ghost Sceptering when they're locked in with you in most cases. except you get to attack.
But it costs 3850 :[
I mean in wonderful theory-land, halberd* is a decent item on clock. Realistically, you probably won't have the farm in 75%+ of games on clockwork.
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The price is just too high for clock I think. In terms of straight up cost efficiency I have to think that ghost scepter blows it out of the water.
I really want to find a situation where I can make halberd look badass, cant seem to find it though. I bet it could be a fun item on clock, but I really want to find a hero who could reasonably buy halberd in a variety of situations.
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yea but bro, ur playing vs anonymous, they do bad they don't even give their names, so. anyone can do well with spectre there. yo. xD
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Oh hey, this is pretty cool. This is a nice work around.
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On January 30 2013 06:04 PassiveAce wrote:
The price is just too high for clock I think. In terms of straight up cost efficiency I have to think that ghost scepter blows it out of the water.
I really want to find a situation where I can make halberd look badass, cant seem to find it though.
I agree but yango saying it's functionally identical is complete horse shit. a disarm in a cog scenerio is always better. always,
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United States47024 Posts
On January 30 2013 06:02 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 06:02 TheYango wrote:On January 30 2013 06:00 PrinceXizor wrote:On January 30 2013 05:58 TheYango wrote:On January 30 2013 05:56 PrinceXizor wrote:On January 30 2013 05:55 PassiveAce wrote:
Would it make sense on clockwork in some situations? in general it would be pretty good on clock, but the cost makes it prohibitive. and clock rarely needs the maim. Clock also has low base armor. Buying armor or Ghost Scepter enhance your survivability vs. physical damage much more cost-effectively than the Evasion does. and yet,disarming someone you cog'd is a really good way of not needing armor. Functionally identical to Ghost Sceptering when they're locked in with you in most cases. except you get to attack. in 99% of cases when you are cog'd in with someone its better to be attacking them than walking around unable to do anything. especially if they deal magic damage. i'd rather disarm than ghost scepter while cogging someone 100% of the time.
You also pay 2350 more gold for the item, and get a hodgepodge of other things that are questionably useful (as mentioned, Evasion doesn't outperform Armor unless you already have a lot of Armor and are pairing the two together, don't need damage or maim at all).
On January 30 2013 06:05 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 06:04 PassiveAce wrote:
The price is just too high for clock I think. In terms of straight up cost efficiency I have to think that ghost scepter blows it out of the water.
I really want to find a situation where I can make halberd look badass, cant seem to find it though. I agree but yango saying it's functionally identical is complete horse shit. a disarm in a cog scenerio is always better. always,
Not always. Magic Immunity/Mirror Image don't negate Ghost Scepter.
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On January 30 2013 06:05 TheYango wrote:
Not always. Magic Immunity/Mirror Image don't negate Ghost Scepter.
true, but you can always halberd post magic immunity. then you know the downside of being nuked in ghost scepter form by a magic immune person seems far worse than just disarming them. I already said its too expensive to be good, but saying ghost scepter is better in most cases is garbage. cost efficiency is NOT effectiveness yango.
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On January 30 2013 06:04 PrinceXizor wrote:yea but bro, ur playing vs anonymous, they do bad they don't even give their names, so. anyone can do well with spectre there. yo. xD
DBR says that game was 'DIAMOND' so clearly it was like sup3r high skillz.
Also incase anyone hasn't been following, DBR is completely dead with this API model. The only thing dotabuff will track now is your own personal w/l and hero stuff if you choose to enable stat collection.
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United States47024 Posts
The other non-trivial limitation of Halberd that it costs 100 mana to use, which is actually somewhat significant for Strength heroes with poor intel/intel gain.
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EPT
