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You don't get well rounded players or develop good understanding of dota by being confined to a certain role. MMR shouldn't ever be an inhibiting factor to prevent players from playing something they want to play. A lot of people play pubs to chill and have fun because we're actually at home. Unless by 'pubs', people are now referring to TI3 with a million dollars on the line.
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On January 24 2013 01:49 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 01:47 DrPandaPhD wrote:If you're playing for fun why do you care that someone on your team that is good wants to take mid? You can have fun playing other heroes too. Wow you really are way too tryhard of a pubber. The game is played for fun. If a person enjoys playing mid more than other roles he should feel free to go mid and not be trashed by pubstars who think they are superior because they have a higher MMR. Winning = fun. Didn't know that losing constantly was how people played DotA. News to me. And it's not just about winning or losing, it's about how you're losing. If a completely inferior player goes mid, feeds 3 times, and gets completely stomped, the game goes so sour that it is basically impossible to have fun, because the opposing team is basically fountain feeding on you 20 minutes into the game if the opposing mid knew what he was doing. If a mid player gets a huge head start like that in a pub, the game is almost certainly over at that point, because a ganking hero that gets a big advantage early is basically impossible to stop in a pub.
What? You can have fun without winning. SingSing probably being the most perfect example of someone who has fun no matter if he loses/wins
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On January 24 2013 01:51 Firebolt145 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 01:49 superstartran wrote:On January 24 2013 01:47 DrPandaPhD wrote:If you're playing for fun why do you care that someone on your team that is good wants to take mid? You can have fun playing other heroes too. Wow you really are way too tryhard of a pubber. The game is played for fun. If a person enjoys playing mid more than other roles he should feel free to go mid and not be trashed by pubstars who think they are superior because they have a higher MMR. Winning = fun. Didn't know that losing constantly was how people played DotA. News to me. And it's not just about winning or losing, it's about how you're losing. If a completely inferior player goes mid, feeds 3 times, and gets completely stomped, the game goes so sour that it is basically impossible to have fun, because the opposing team is basically fountain feeding on you 20 minutes into the game if the opposing mid knew what he was doing. If a mid player gets a huge head start like that in a pub, the game is almost certainly over at that point, because a ganking hero that gets a big advantage early is basically impossible to stop in a pub. So in other words, you're of the opinion that highest rated should be pigeonholed into mid, lowest rated should always be support? That's the vibe I'm getting, and that's a terrible way to play the game. Oh and yes I have plenty of fun while losing.
The highest rated player should go mid if the MMR range is vastly different in a group. The lowest rated player doesn't have to play support, but he certainly should not be taking the most important position over a clearly better player than him, especially when the higher rated player makes it known he wants to take mid to ensure that he gets enough farm/exp to make a meaningful impact in the game.
On January 24 2013 01:52 Baggage wrote:
You don't get well rounded players or develop good understanding of dota by being confined to a certain role. MMR shouldn't ever be an inhibiting factor to prevent players from playing something they want to play. A lot of people play pubs to chill and have fun because we're actually at home. Unless by 'pubs', people are now referring to TI3 with a million dollars on the line.
MMR should be an inhibiting factor when there's a huge discrepancy of skill in your game, because the opposing team likely has their best players on high impact positions. So if you don't let your best players play those same positions, you're going to get utterly stomped.
On January 24 2013 01:52 DrPandaPhD wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 01:49 superstartran wrote:On January 24 2013 01:47 DrPandaPhD wrote:If you're playing for fun why do you care that someone on your team that is good wants to take mid? You can have fun playing other heroes too. Wow you really are way too tryhard of a pubber. The game is played for fun. If a person enjoys playing mid more than other roles he should feel free to go mid and not be trashed by pubstars who think they are superior because they have a higher MMR. Winning = fun. Didn't know that losing constantly was how people played DotA. News to me. And it's not just about winning or losing, it's about how you're losing. If a completely inferior player goes mid, feeds 3 times, and gets completely stomped, the game goes so sour that it is basically impossible to have fun, because the opposing team is basically fountain feeding on you 20 minutes into the game if the opposing mid knew what he was doing. If a mid player gets a huge head start like that in a pub, the game is almost certainly over at that point, because a ganking hero that gets a big advantage early is basically impossible to stop in a pub. What? You can have fun without winning. SingSing probably being the most perfect example of someone who has fun no matter if he loses/wins
I'm sure SingSing has lots of fun getting fountain fed by a Pudge that got fed 8 kills in 8 minutes. Oh wait, he doesn't. He goes AFK.
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On January 24 2013 01:53 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 01:51 Firebolt145 wrote:On January 24 2013 01:49 superstartran wrote:On January 24 2013 01:47 DrPandaPhD wrote:If you're playing for fun why do you care that someone on your team that is good wants to take mid? You can have fun playing other heroes too. Wow you really are way too tryhard of a pubber. The game is played for fun. If a person enjoys playing mid more than other roles he should feel free to go mid and not be trashed by pubstars who think they are superior because they have a higher MMR. Winning = fun. Didn't know that losing constantly was how people played DotA. News to me. And it's not just about winning or losing, it's about how you're losing. If a completely inferior player goes mid, feeds 3 times, and gets completely stomped, the game goes so sour that it is basically impossible to have fun, because the opposing team is basically fountain feeding on you 20 minutes into the game if the opposing mid knew what he was doing. If a mid player gets a huge head start like that in a pub, the game is almost certainly over at that point, because a ganking hero that gets a big advantage early is basically impossible to stop in a pub. So in other words, you're of the opinion that highest rated should be pigeonholed into mid, lowest rated should always be support? That's the vibe I'm getting, and that's a terrible way to play the game. Oh and yes I have plenty of fun while losing. The highest rated player should go mid if the MMR range is vastly different in a group. The lowest rated player doesn't have to play support, but he certainly should not be taking the most important position over a clearly better player than him, especially when the higher rated player makes it known he wants to take mid to ensure that he gets enough farm/exp to make a meaningful impact in the game.
wrong. this is pubs we are talking about. pubs don't matter. join an in house league. this is dota not lol or whatever game you play. 
We don't need to hear about your MMHSS (Mangix Matchmaking hero selection system), you can just go play inhouse leagues where there are ratings displayed on their sites and you join games based on that.
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Czech Republic18921 Posts
On January 24 2013 01:51 SpiZe wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 01:50 cecek wrote:Hello everyone. Welcome to my official Facebook page. I will soon have an announcement to make so be sure not to miss it.
Thank you very much for your support, it means a lot to me. From Chuan facebook. What could it be??? The suspense is killing me. It's probably something to do with the west, sounds like a stretch for it to be a coincidence that he made a facebook fan page and this is his first satus. iG traveling to eu/na for some LAN? It's in english ?
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Chuan/522883621075874
Yeah. Chuan speaks fine English. There are some video interviews with him somewhere, too.
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2700++ double diamond mega platinum proleague champ here:
And here comes the arguments about the "most important role" "the highest skill required role" "the importance of winning in games and trying your hardest to win" etc etc discussions.
Honestly, even the discussions that DBR has spawned haven't been good. The impact is already negative. It won't be much better in game.
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On January 24 2013 01:54 PrinceXizor wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 01:53 superstartran wrote:On January 24 2013 01:51 Firebolt145 wrote:On January 24 2013 01:49 superstartran wrote:On January 24 2013 01:47 DrPandaPhD wrote:If you're playing for fun why do you care that someone on your team that is good wants to take mid? You can have fun playing other heroes too. Wow you really are way too tryhard of a pubber. The game is played for fun. If a person enjoys playing mid more than other roles he should feel free to go mid and not be trashed by pubstars who think they are superior because they have a higher MMR. Winning = fun. Didn't know that losing constantly was how people played DotA. News to me. And it's not just about winning or losing, it's about how you're losing. If a completely inferior player goes mid, feeds 3 times, and gets completely stomped, the game goes so sour that it is basically impossible to have fun, because the opposing team is basically fountain feeding on you 20 minutes into the game if the opposing mid knew what he was doing. If a mid player gets a huge head start like that in a pub, the game is almost certainly over at that point, because a ganking hero that gets a big advantage early is basically impossible to stop in a pub. So in other words, you're of the opinion that highest rated should be pigeonholed into mid, lowest rated should always be support? That's the vibe I'm getting, and that's a terrible way to play the game. Oh and yes I have plenty of fun while losing. The highest rated player should go mid if the MMR range is vastly different in a group. The lowest rated player doesn't have to play support, but he certainly should not be taking the most important position over a clearly better player than him, especially when the higher rated player makes it known he wants to take mid to ensure that he gets enough farm/exp to make a meaningful impact in the game. wrong. this is pubs we are talking about. pubs don't matter. join an in house league. this is dota not lol or whatever game you play.
Saying I'm wrong because you lost the argument? Welcome to being bad at arguments. Not to wave my e-penis or anything, but you certainly sound like someone that isn't very good at the game if you don't think your best player should be taking high impact positions IF you want to win.
User was warned for this post
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The mid player =/= most important position. Dota is a 5v5 game and you either win as a team or lose as a team. A high skill player will be able to make an impact on the game regardless of what role they play.
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Lalalaland34505 Posts
superstartran, I get what you're saying regarding 'if we are desperate to win, we should stick our best player mid' since that is a great position for the player to dictate the game pace. But these are pubs, not fucking TI3 qualifiers. Pigeonholing roles based on MMR is a HORRIBLE way to do things. Do you really think pub players are going to look at the opponents and think 'oh, they only have a small MMR range, we'll let orange take mid if he wants.' Be real.
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On January 24 2013 01:56 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 01:54 PrinceXizor wrote:On January 24 2013 01:53 superstartran wrote:On January 24 2013 01:51 Firebolt145 wrote:On January 24 2013 01:49 superstartran wrote:On January 24 2013 01:47 DrPandaPhD wrote:If you're playing for fun why do you care that someone on your team that is good wants to take mid? You can have fun playing other heroes too. Wow you really are way too tryhard of a pubber. The game is played for fun. If a person enjoys playing mid more than other roles he should feel free to go mid and not be trashed by pubstars who think they are superior because they have a higher MMR. Winning = fun. Didn't know that losing constantly was how people played DotA. News to me. And it's not just about winning or losing, it's about how you're losing. If a completely inferior player goes mid, feeds 3 times, and gets completely stomped, the game goes so sour that it is basically impossible to have fun, because the opposing team is basically fountain feeding on you 20 minutes into the game if the opposing mid knew what he was doing. If a mid player gets a huge head start like that in a pub, the game is almost certainly over at that point, because a ganking hero that gets a big advantage early is basically impossible to stop in a pub. So in other words, you're of the opinion that highest rated should be pigeonholed into mid, lowest rated should always be support? That's the vibe I'm getting, and that's a terrible way to play the game. Oh and yes I have plenty of fun while losing. The highest rated player should go mid if the MMR range is vastly different in a group. The lowest rated player doesn't have to play support, but he certainly should not be taking the most important position over a clearly better player than him, especially when the higher rated player makes it known he wants to take mid to ensure that he gets enough farm/exp to make a meaningful impact in the game. wrong. this is pubs we are talking about. pubs don't matter. join an in house league. this is dota not lol or whatever game you play. Saying I'm wrong because you lost the argument? Welcome to being bad at arguments. Not to wave my e-penis or anything, but you certainly sound like someone that isn't very good at the game if you don't think your best player should be taking high impact positions IF you want to win.
I get the feeling you're one those who go "I'm mid you suck" and the laning phase begins with 2 people mid fighting for lasthits.
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hello. my name is nox.
i play doto. i enjoy doto.-
also...
erasme is hawt
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oh right..
ps. eran is also HAWT
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People talking about positions and shit like pubs are some top serious stuff lol. There's still 5carry teams in top live games, there's support who dont stack who dont buy wards etc etc.
Dota pubs have always been fun and random, play a carry CM! why not. Play a support mort...why the fuck not.
The day people are like "AMAGAD 2/1/2??" "why not luna, morph?", will be a very sad day...
edit;; nox: u phase shifter #FU! ~D
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first post is true, second a bit less.
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On January 24 2013 02:01 noxie_ wrote:
oh right..
ps. eran is also HAWT
gj noxinator
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On January 24 2013 02:00 noxie_ wrote:
hello. my name is nox.
i play doto. i enjoy doto.-
also...
erasme is hawt
2100 masters league champ mega platinum league here;
You take that back~! Dirty lies.
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On January 24 2013 01:56 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 01:54 PrinceXizor wrote:On January 24 2013 01:53 superstartran wrote:On January 24 2013 01:51 Firebolt145 wrote:On January 24 2013 01:49 superstartran wrote:On January 24 2013 01:47 DrPandaPhD wrote:If you're playing for fun why do you care that someone on your team that is good wants to take mid? You can have fun playing other heroes too. Wow you really are way too tryhard of a pubber. The game is played for fun. If a person enjoys playing mid more than other roles he should feel free to go mid and not be trashed by pubstars who think they are superior because they have a higher MMR. Winning = fun. Didn't know that losing constantly was how people played DotA. News to me. And it's not just about winning or losing, it's about how you're losing. If a completely inferior player goes mid, feeds 3 times, and gets completely stomped, the game goes so sour that it is basically impossible to have fun, because the opposing team is basically fountain feeding on you 20 minutes into the game if the opposing mid knew what he was doing. If a mid player gets a huge head start like that in a pub, the game is almost certainly over at that point, because a ganking hero that gets a big advantage early is basically impossible to stop in a pub. So in other words, you're of the opinion that highest rated should be pigeonholed into mid, lowest rated should always be support? That's the vibe I'm getting, and that's a terrible way to play the game. Oh and yes I have plenty of fun while losing. The highest rated player should go mid if the MMR range is vastly different in a group. The lowest rated player doesn't have to play support, but he certainly should not be taking the most important position over a clearly better player than him, especially when the higher rated player makes it known he wants to take mid to ensure that he gets enough farm/exp to make a meaningful impact in the game. wrong. this is pubs we are talking about. pubs don't matter. join an in house league. this is dota not lol or whatever game you play. Saying I'm wrong because you lost the argument? Welcome to being bad at arguments. Not to wave my e-penis or anything, but you certainly sound like someone that isn't very good at the game if you don't think your best player should be taking high impact positions IF you want to win.
SO, in a team of : BurninG Dendi Chuan YYF iceiceice where the MMR for the players is: BurninG > Chuan > YYF > iceiceice > Dendi and dendi is 200 MMR below burning, Dendi shouldn't get mid over burning, because MMR shows that BurninG completely outclasses Dendi at mid. Or do other factors seem to matter? -.- PLz stop kid.
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On January 24 2013 01:58 Firebolt145 wrote:
superstartran, I get what you're saying regarding 'if we are desperate to win, we should stick our best player mid' since that is a great position for the player to dictate the game pace. But these are pubs, not fucking TI3 qualifiers. Pigeonholing roles based on MMR is a HORRIBLE way to do things. Do you really think pub players are going to look at the opponents and think 'oh, they only have a small MMR range, we'll let orange take mid if he wants.' Be real.
So if you're playing at a high MMR, and you want to win (because people naturally at that high MMR are competitive), you don't think that the player with the best stats, the best overall win percentage, the best MMR, etc. shouldn't take mid? This isn't like low tier shitcan pubs that other people are talking about; I'm talking about serious pubs where the opposing team is nerdy enough to throw wards/counter wards in the lane, smoke gank off the break to avoid wards, 3 man jungle/carry/support dive your offlaner, etc.
And yes, if the pub players are looking at their OWN team, and see that there isn't a massive discrepancy in skill, more often than not it's really not a big deal unless someone is a hardcore specialist and is going to pick that mid hero regardless of MMR or not. For the people who autolock/flame/etc. they are going to do that regardless of MMR.
On January 24 2013 01:58 ChrisXIV wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 01:56 superstartran wrote:On January 24 2013 01:54 PrinceXizor wrote:On January 24 2013 01:53 superstartran wrote:On January 24 2013 01:51 Firebolt145 wrote:On January 24 2013 01:49 superstartran wrote:On January 24 2013 01:47 DrPandaPhD wrote:If you're playing for fun why do you care that someone on your team that is good wants to take mid? You can have fun playing other heroes too. Wow you really are way too tryhard of a pubber. The game is played for fun. If a person enjoys playing mid more than other roles he should feel free to go mid and not be trashed by pubstars who think they are superior because they have a higher MMR. Winning = fun. Didn't know that losing constantly was how people played DotA. News to me. And it's not just about winning or losing, it's about how you're losing. If a completely inferior player goes mid, feeds 3 times, and gets completely stomped, the game goes so sour that it is basically impossible to have fun, because the opposing team is basically fountain feeding on you 20 minutes into the game if the opposing mid knew what he was doing. If a mid player gets a huge head start like that in a pub, the game is almost certainly over at that point, because a ganking hero that gets a big advantage early is basically impossible to stop in a pub. So in other words, you're of the opinion that highest rated should be pigeonholed into mid, lowest rated should always be support? That's the vibe I'm getting, and that's a terrible way to play the game. Oh and yes I have plenty of fun while losing. The highest rated player should go mid if the MMR range is vastly different in a group. The lowest rated player doesn't have to play support, but he certainly should not be taking the most important position over a clearly better player than him, especially when the higher rated player makes it known he wants to take mid to ensure that he gets enough farm/exp to make a meaningful impact in the game. wrong. this is pubs we are talking about. pubs don't matter. join an in house league. this is dota not lol or whatever game you play. Saying I'm wrong because you lost the argument? Welcome to being bad at arguments. Not to wave my e-penis or anything, but you certainly sound like someone that isn't very good at the game if you don't think your best player should be taking high impact positions IF you want to win. I get the feeling you're one those who go "I'm mid you suck" and the laning phase begins with 2 people mid fighting for lasthits.
I'm getting the feeling you don't want your MMR publicly shown because you're not as good as you thought you were at DotA 2. Two can play at that game.
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When your pubbing you cant assume that everyone is going to be tryharding or care entirely about doing the most optimal setup with the available information. I dont like the idea of random soloq pub dickheads trying to dictate roles by using some third party database that tells them who is "better".
el oh el @ "serious pubs"
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On January 24 2013 01:49 superstartran wrote:Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 01:47 DrPandaPhD wrote:If you're playing for fun why do you care that someone on your team that is good wants to take mid? You can have fun playing other heroes too. Wow you really are way too tryhard of a pubber. The game is played for fun. If a person enjoys playing mid more than other roles he should feel free to go mid and not be trashed by pubstars who think they are superior because they have a higher MMR. Winning = fun. Didn't know that losing constantly was how people played DotA. News to me. And it's not just about winning or losing, it's about how you're losing. If a completely inferior player goes mid, feeds 3 times, and gets completely stomped, the game goes so sour that it is basically impossible to have fun, because the opposing team is basically fountain feeding on you 20 minutes into the game if the opposing mid knew what he was doing. If a mid player gets a huge head start like that in a pub, the game is almost certainly over at that point, because a ganking hero that gets a big advantage early is basically impossible to stop in a pub. Show nested quote +On January 24 2013 01:48 Firebolt145 wrote:
This is precisely the mentality I don't want coming into Dota. 'I'm ranked the top of this team so I'm going to pick mid and carry us to win.' Get off your high horse. If the orange/brown guy wants to play mid, let him. He isn't going to learn any other way. Sometimes the rating system doesn't match-up properly and does wide range of matching up. It could have one 1800, 4 1700s for each time. It's still balanced; that actually happened quite often in HoN. What if one of the 1700s wants to take mid over the 1800 player, and then has to face 1v1 mid vs a clearly superior player that is mechanically much better than him? He's going to likely get crushed, lose his lane, feed hard, and then that's going to lead to everyone else getting fed on. It's going to devolve into a 20 minute stomp, with the opposing team likely fountain camping you for a good 10-15 minutes because they got such a huge lead on you early, mainly because the opposing mid got really fed because some hot shot 1700 thought he should go mid.
We can say the same about side lane, feed the carry 3 times, let him freefarm. Besides you say he will feed mid, maybe he will win mid, how can you say based on MMR that it will be this result for sure? And seriously,3 kills early and then? If what you say is correct,the 1900 player of your team will be fed on side lane by their 1700 player. If you think the game relies only on mid, seriously what makes me crazy way more than a guy who feeds mid is a passive support in 2v1 lane, or afk junglers, those things hurt your team way more than 3 kills on their mid. But I doubt you can realise it if you think 3 early kills = game over. On top of that at least 30% of people random their heroe in pub, if it's not sd or rd, good luck predicting the results of the mu based on MMR.
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EPT
