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United States47024 Posts
On January 22 2013 08:30 Itsmedudeman wrote:
That's only if another of your supports isn't a standard mek carrier. If they are then they could get it, you get some other survivability item, and have the mek support on top of that as well without spending 2k gold. If you're worried about saving a support's gold, don't, because you could argue the same thing in the other direction.
A support getting Mek takes 20+ minutes. A carry can have it by 10.
There's a world of difference in what you can accomplish with that timing.
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On January 22 2013 08:51 Kishin2 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2013 08:30 BurningSera wrote:On January 22 2013 08:18 Kishin2 wrote:
What makes a support hero good? Defining this for a carry hero is easy. Carries scale better into late game with farm, simple.
Any hero can technically be played as a support, but what makes X hero better than Y hero at supporting?
Support heroes provide something in the early to mid-game, where the carry tends to be weakest. That something can be anti-pushing power, pushing power, team fight presence, the ability to set up kills/gank, etc. Naga siren has a few of these aspects, so I don't see a particular reason why she can't be played as a support, really.
Saying Naga siren is a bad support because she would be better as a carry doesn't make sense to me. When we are talking support we are usually referring to position 4 or 5, both literally has 0 cs but position5 should be the hardsupport who is spending all gold for warding/dust /smoke etc. The easiest way to define a support is that 'Can this hero be any use with Boots+Wand+Bracer at 30mins?' because in a disadvantaged game, position 4 will have those items at 30mins and position 5 will literally have one naked boots and 2-3 branches (you are lucky if you can afford a magic wand). Now imagine that with naga. I think it's important to not define roles based on specifics like cs. The 4 and 5 positions tend to not get any last hits at all, yes. However, saying something like a 4 or 5 should not get cs is an opinion on how the game should be played. Who knows if one day a team comes up with a strategy that involves all 5 heroes getting somewhat equal farm? It's an extreme case, but who knows?
Dota will always be about the economics in the game. Comp scene is more refined than many years ago because of people's understanding of the game is getting better at the resource management (and among other aspects of course). There is strategy involved 5 heroes getting somewhat equal farm e.g. 5 pushers line up but that will be another different topic.
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United States47024 Posts
On January 22 2013 08:34 BeanerBurrito wrote:
I feel like the stats and spell block from a linkins, or the much larger amount of health and regen offered from a heart is much more cost efficient as you reach the late game. And again that's what i care about when i'm thinking about my carry, I want to make sure they are stronger than my opponents carry at 30 40 or 50 minutes, and a mek can become a wasted slot in the late game.
This is increasingly no longer the attitude that describes carry play anymore. It's why Tranquil+Drums/BKB is the standard on Luna rather than Treads+Helm, why PL gets Drums/Diffusal rather than Radiance. More and more the game is becoming geared toward earlier carry development and the requirement of carries being relevant at the 15 minute mark, rather than the 30 minute mark. The trend started in 6.73 (well, *started* earlier than that, but took off a lot in late 6.72 and early 6.73), and has only been increasing. Neglecting early game and focusing your carry play solely toward the latter part of the game is simply no longer the correct mindset when approaching carry play anymore.
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^Is like we have come to the fast food era in dota world, carries need to come online asap nowadays xD
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Wow, just had a game where it was back and forth and suddenly we were getting raped, fast forward 5 minutes and we went from bickering at eachother to being total bros and working as a team, suddenly enemies lost every single fight.
Huh, teamwork stronk.
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On January 22 2013 09:09 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2013 08:34 BeanerBurrito wrote:
I feel like the stats and spell block from a linkins, or the much larger amount of health and regen offered from a heart is much more cost efficient as you reach the late game. And again that's what i care about when i'm thinking about my carry, I want to make sure they are stronger than my opponents carry at 30 40 or 50 minutes, and a mek can become a wasted slot in the late game. This is increasingly no longer the attitude that describes carry play anymore. It's why Tranquil+Drums/BKB is the standard on Luna rather than Treads+Helm, why PL gets Drums/Diffusal rather than Radiance. More and more the game is becoming geared toward earlier carry development and the requirement of carries being relevant at the 15 minute mark, rather than the 30 minute mark. The trend started in 6.73 (well, *started* earlier than that, but took off a lot in late 6.72 and early 6.73), and has only been increasing. Neglecting early game and focusing your carry play solely toward the latter part of the game is simply no longer the correct mindset when approaching carry play anymore.
it's like love at first sight with each post Yango makes
no homo
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On January 22 2013 09:26 DoNotDisturb wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2013 09:09 TheYango wrote:On January 22 2013 08:34 BeanerBurrito wrote:
I feel like the stats and spell block from a linkins, or the much larger amount of health and regen offered from a heart is much more cost efficient as you reach the late game. And again that's what i care about when i'm thinking about my carry, I want to make sure they are stronger than my opponents carry at 30 40 or 50 minutes, and a mek can become a wasted slot in the late game. This is increasingly no longer the attitude that describes carry play anymore. It's why Tranquil+Drums/BKB is the standard on Luna rather than Treads+Helm, why PL gets Drums/Diffusal rather than Radiance. More and more the game is becoming geared toward earlier carry development and the requirement of carries being relevant at the 15 minute mark, rather than the 30 minute mark. The trend started in 6.73 (well, *started* earlier than that, but took off a lot in late 6.72 and early 6.73), and has only been increasing. Neglecting early game and focusing your carry play solely toward the latter part of the game is simply no longer the correct mindset when approaching carry play anymore. it's like love at first sight with each post Yango makes no homo
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On January 22 2013 09:09 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2013 08:34 BeanerBurrito wrote:
I feel like the stats and spell block from a linkins, or the much larger amount of health and regen offered from a heart is much more cost efficient as you reach the late game. And again that's what i care about when i'm thinking about my carry, I want to make sure they are stronger than my opponents carry at 30 40 or 50 minutes, and a mek can become a wasted slot in the late game. This is increasingly no longer the attitude that describes carry play anymore. It's why Tranquil+Drums/BKB is the standard on Luna rather than Treads+Helm, why PL gets Drums/Diffusal rather than Radiance. More and more the game is becoming geared toward earlier carry development and the requirement of carries being relevant at the 15 minute mark, rather than the 30 minute mark. The trend started in 6.73 (well, *started* earlier than that, but took off a lot in late 6.72 and early 6.73), and has only been increasing. Neglecting early game and focusing your carry play solely toward the latter part of the game is simply no longer the correct mindset when approaching carry play anymore.
Isn't this more of a foreign vs. Chinese split in playstyle? The Chinese still seem to put a lot of emphasis on heavy farming for the ultimate six slot carry. Which is superior is up for debate (it varies, particularly depending on how close to flawless you think your opponents will play) but I wouldn't say the Chinese are doing it "wrong" at all.
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I think that's more of a trend that's happening right now, and it is a recent trend. There have been other times throughout the history of dota where carries have had their roles slightly shifted based on the amount of time games tended to last.
Remember when nerubian assassin, and blink dagger linas, and 5 second arrow ganks ruled competitive dota for example?
During those times potm became a very popular pick as a semi carry, but she would be played as the only carry for a team. The reason potm fell into fashion as a full fledged carry because the meta game leaned more towards ganking and the mid game, potm is perfect for that, but during a game after your ganking begins to lose effectiveness and you need to win fights and push a base, potm was also very good at that with sufficient items. After that another change happened where teams would still pick potm, but also pick another carry to ensure their late game as teams started handling the ganking better and the pace of the began to slow again.
Now the game is much more focused on pushing and early game play as you mentioned. Luna being picked and starting off a build with a drum and bkb is better at fitting into the pushing that's going on right now, so that is the way many players would build luna. But the reason goes back to the playstyle of the present time, like you said not only luna has changed her ways as a carry recently(also partly because shes was reworked compared to a long time ago), but also teams picking phantom lancer will also go for a more mid game focused build because that's how the pace of the game is right now.
Still I think that not long ago it was the time of morphling being a premier carry, and after that sven completely switching roles from practically a support to being one of the best late game carries in the game. I think that in the near future we will see different kinds of carries than just the tranquil boots, drum, bkb, building carries who focus their farm only on the mid game.
Even right now in dota 2 more late game building carries like sven or naix are effective, or even think about the fear you get from a 50 minute tiny. Also the previously mentioned phantom lancer and luna are still very good late game carries, sure luna might get a drum and a bkb at first, but if that game happens to go longer you can bet she will continue to get her late game items as well. it just comes down to if a team can get their carry to the point where they can get that farm, which again is related to the pace of the game.
I actually think that those early game carry builds could lead to more late game situations in games between more evenly matched teams, if both teams carries build to fight in the mid game, and the game stays close throughout the midgame, the game could be forced to go to the late game if neither team can get an edge that quickly.
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On January 22 2013 09:40 FuzzyJAM wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2013 09:09 TheYango wrote:On January 22 2013 08:34 BeanerBurrito wrote:
I feel like the stats and spell block from a linkins, or the much larger amount of health and regen offered from a heart is much more cost efficient as you reach the late game. And again that's what i care about when i'm thinking about my carry, I want to make sure they are stronger than my opponents carry at 30 40 or 50 minutes, and a mek can become a wasted slot in the late game. This is increasingly no longer the attitude that describes carry play anymore. It's why Tranquil+Drums/BKB is the standard on Luna rather than Treads+Helm, why PL gets Drums/Diffusal rather than Radiance. More and more the game is becoming geared toward earlier carry development and the requirement of carries being relevant at the 15 minute mark, rather than the 30 minute mark. The trend started in 6.73 (well, *started* earlier than that, but took off a lot in late 6.72 and early 6.73), and has only been increasing. Neglecting early game and focusing your carry play solely toward the latter part of the game is simply no longer the correct mindset when approaching carry play anymore. Isn't this more of a foreign vs. Chinese split in playstyle? The Chinese still seem to put a lot of emphasis on heavy farming for the ultimate six slot carry. Which is superior is up for debate (it varies, particularly depending on how close to flawless you think your opponents will play) but I wouldn't say the Chinese are doing it "wrong" at all.
Well, here's the theory - if you can get a carry (AM, for example) to get a 6 slot build and hold off any kind of push with that early game carry (say a luna push, or some kind of ganking push with Naix) - usually with heavy split pushing (again, AM is great here), than eventually that late game carry will win over that 5 man push. China is pretty good at finding ways to deal with that 5 man, so that's why AM and PL were gaining popularity at the end of gleage.
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On January 22 2013 09:41 BeanerBurrito wrote:
I think that's more of a trend that's happening right now, and it is a recent trend. There have been other times throughout the history of dota where carries have had their roles slightly shifted based on the amount of time games tended to last.
Remember when nerubian assassin, and blink dagger linas, and 5 second arrow ganks ruled competitive dota for example?
During those times potm became a very popular pick as a semi carry, but she would be played as the only carry for a team. The reason potm fell into fashion as a full fledged carry because the meta game leaned more towards ganking and the mid game, potm is perfect for that, but during a game after your ganking begins to lose effectiveness and you need to win fights and push a base, potm was also very good at that with sufficient items. After that another change happened where teams would still pick potm, but also pick another carry to ensure their late game as teams started handling the ganking better and the pace of the began to slow again.
Now the game is much more focused on pushing and early game play as you mentioned. Luna being picked and starting off a build with a drum and bkb is better at fitting into the pushing that's going on right now, so that is the way many players would build luna. But the reason goes back to the playstyle of the present time, like you said not only luna has changed her ways as a carry recently(also partly because shes was reworked compared to a long time ago), but also teams picking phantom lancer will also go for a more mid game focused build because that's how the pace of the game is right now.
Still I think that not long ago it was the time of morphling being a premier carry, and after that sven completely switching roles from practically a support to being one of the best late game carries in the game. I think that in the near future we will see different kinds of carries than just the tranquil boots, drum, bkb, building carries who focus their farm only on the mid game.
Even right now in dota 2 more late game building carries like sven or naix are effective, or even think about the fear you get from a 50 minute tiny. Also the previously mentioned phantom lancer and luna are still very good late game carries, sure luna might get a drum and a bkb at first, but if that game happens to go longer you can bet she will continue to get her late game items as well. it just comes down to if a team can get their carry to the point where they can get that farm, which again is related to the pace of the game.
I actually think that those early game carry builds could lead to more late game situations in games between more evenly matched teams, if both teams carries build to fight in the mid game, and the game stays close throughout the midgame, the game could be forced to go to the late game if neither team can get an edge that quickly.
just to point out, if the old NA came back he would still be an incredibly strong hero
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On January 22 2013 09:40 FuzzyJAM wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2013 09:09 TheYango wrote:On January 22 2013 08:34 BeanerBurrito wrote:
I feel like the stats and spell block from a linkins, or the much larger amount of health and regen offered from a heart is much more cost efficient as you reach the late game. And again that's what i care about when i'm thinking about my carry, I want to make sure they are stronger than my opponents carry at 30 40 or 50 minutes, and a mek can become a wasted slot in the late game. This is increasingly no longer the attitude that describes carry play anymore. It's why Tranquil+Drums/BKB is the standard on Luna rather than Treads+Helm, why PL gets Drums/Diffusal rather than Radiance. More and more the game is becoming geared toward earlier carry development and the requirement of carries being relevant at the 15 minute mark, rather than the 30 minute mark. The trend started in 6.73 (well, *started* earlier than that, but took off a lot in late 6.72 and early 6.73), and has only been increasing. Neglecting early game and focusing your carry play solely toward the latter part of the game is simply no longer the correct mindset when approaching carry play anymore. Isn't this more of a foreign vs. Chinese split in playstyle? The Chinese still seem to put a lot of emphasis on heavy farming for the ultimate six slot carry. Which is superior is up for debate (it varies, particularly depending on how close to flawless you think your opponents will play) but I wouldn't say the Chinese are doing it "wrong" at all.
Not really. The chinese don't favor heavy farming more than their western counterparts at all. I'd say the chinese are just more focused around having 1 carry only and the rest being a supporting cast rather than having a second or even third carry in each lane. I may even argue it's the other way around atm.
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On January 22 2013 09:45 Comeh wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2013 09:40 FuzzyJAM wrote:On January 22 2013 09:09 TheYango wrote:On January 22 2013 08:34 BeanerBurrito wrote:
I feel like the stats and spell block from a linkins, or the much larger amount of health and regen offered from a heart is much more cost efficient as you reach the late game. And again that's what i care about when i'm thinking about my carry, I want to make sure they are stronger than my opponents carry at 30 40 or 50 minutes, and a mek can become a wasted slot in the late game. This is increasingly no longer the attitude that describes carry play anymore. It's why Tranquil+Drums/BKB is the standard on Luna rather than Treads+Helm, why PL gets Drums/Diffusal rather than Radiance. More and more the game is becoming geared toward earlier carry development and the requirement of carries being relevant at the 15 minute mark, rather than the 30 minute mark. The trend started in 6.73 (well, *started* earlier than that, but took off a lot in late 6.72 and early 6.73), and has only been increasing. Neglecting early game and focusing your carry play solely toward the latter part of the game is simply no longer the correct mindset when approaching carry play anymore. Isn't this more of a foreign vs. Chinese split in playstyle? The Chinese still seem to put a lot of emphasis on heavy farming for the ultimate six slot carry. Which is superior is up for debate (it varies, particularly depending on how close to flawless you think your opponents will play) but I wouldn't say the Chinese are doing it "wrong" at all. Well, here's the theory - if you can get a carry (AM, for example) to get a 6 slot build and hold off any kind of push with that early game carry (say a luna push, or some kind of ganking push with Naix) - usually with heavy split pushing (again, AM is great here), than eventually that late game carry will win over that 5 man push. China is pretty good at finding ways to deal with that 5 man, so that's why AM and PL were gaining popularity at the end of gleage.
PL was gaining popularity because of a new way of building him that allowed him to be relevant a lot sooner while still allowing him to become that late game powerhouse later on. AM is a bad example of a "farm 6 slot carry" because his primary strength is his ability to come online faster than most of the other carries due to speed of farming. The newer builds like the Drums/Tranq/Diff PL build allow previously slow carries to fight sooner. It has less to do with Chinese "heavy farming" and more to do with new build paths
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On January 22 2013 09:47 Numy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2013 09:45 Comeh wrote:On January 22 2013 09:40 FuzzyJAM wrote:On January 22 2013 09:09 TheYango wrote:On January 22 2013 08:34 BeanerBurrito wrote:
I feel like the stats and spell block from a linkins, or the much larger amount of health and regen offered from a heart is much more cost efficient as you reach the late game. And again that's what i care about when i'm thinking about my carry, I want to make sure they are stronger than my opponents carry at 30 40 or 50 minutes, and a mek can become a wasted slot in the late game. This is increasingly no longer the attitude that describes carry play anymore. It's why Tranquil+Drums/BKB is the standard on Luna rather than Treads+Helm, why PL gets Drums/Diffusal rather than Radiance. More and more the game is becoming geared toward earlier carry development and the requirement of carries being relevant at the 15 minute mark, rather than the 30 minute mark. The trend started in 6.73 (well, *started* earlier than that, but took off a lot in late 6.72 and early 6.73), and has only been increasing. Neglecting early game and focusing your carry play solely toward the latter part of the game is simply no longer the correct mindset when approaching carry play anymore. Isn't this more of a foreign vs. Chinese split in playstyle? The Chinese still seem to put a lot of emphasis on heavy farming for the ultimate six slot carry. Which is superior is up for debate (it varies, particularly depending on how close to flawless you think your opponents will play) but I wouldn't say the Chinese are doing it "wrong" at all. Well, here's the theory - if you can get a carry (AM, for example) to get a 6 slot build and hold off any kind of push with that early game carry (say a luna push, or some kind of ganking push with Naix) - usually with heavy split pushing (again, AM is great here), than eventually that late game carry will win over that 5 man push. China is pretty good at finding ways to deal with that 5 man, so that's why AM and PL were gaining popularity at the end of gleage. PL was gaining popularity because of a new way of building him that allowed him to be relevant a lot sooner while still allowing him to become that late game powerhouse later on.
That and he got buffed to freaking 4.2 agility gain per level, like seriously? I also thought the collision size buff makes him feel like a different hero in dota 2.
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On January 22 2013 09:47 Numy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2013 09:45 Comeh wrote:On January 22 2013 09:40 FuzzyJAM wrote:On January 22 2013 09:09 TheYango wrote:On January 22 2013 08:34 BeanerBurrito wrote:
I feel like the stats and spell block from a linkins, or the much larger amount of health and regen offered from a heart is much more cost efficient as you reach the late game. And again that's what i care about when i'm thinking about my carry, I want to make sure they are stronger than my opponents carry at 30 40 or 50 minutes, and a mek can become a wasted slot in the late game. This is increasingly no longer the attitude that describes carry play anymore. It's why Tranquil+Drums/BKB is the standard on Luna rather than Treads+Helm, why PL gets Drums/Diffusal rather than Radiance. More and more the game is becoming geared toward earlier carry development and the requirement of carries being relevant at the 15 minute mark, rather than the 30 minute mark. The trend started in 6.73 (well, *started* earlier than that, but took off a lot in late 6.72 and early 6.73), and has only been increasing. Neglecting early game and focusing your carry play solely toward the latter part of the game is simply no longer the correct mindset when approaching carry play anymore. Isn't this more of a foreign vs. Chinese split in playstyle? The Chinese still seem to put a lot of emphasis on heavy farming for the ultimate six slot carry. Which is superior is up for debate (it varies, particularly depending on how close to flawless you think your opponents will play) but I wouldn't say the Chinese are doing it "wrong" at all. Well, here's the theory - if you can get a carry (AM, for example) to get a 6 slot build and hold off any kind of push with that early game carry (say a luna push, or some kind of ganking push with Naix) - usually with heavy split pushing (again, AM is great here), than eventually that late game carry will win over that 5 man push. China is pretty good at finding ways to deal with that 5 man, so that's why AM and PL were gaining popularity at the end of gleage. PL was gaining popularity because of a new way of building him that allowed him to be relevant a lot sooner while still allowing him to become that late game powerhouse later on. AM is a bad example of a "farm 6 slot carry" because his primary strength is his ability to come online faster than most of the other carries due to speed of farming. The newer builds like the Drums/Tranq/Diff PL build allow previously slow carries to fight sooner. It has less to do with Chinese "heavy farming" and more to do with new build paths
Yeah, I oversimplified it (lazy), and I guess I don't technically mean a 6 slot carry, but the idea of split pushing still remains.
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On January 22 2013 09:40 FuzzyJAM wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2013 09:09 TheYango wrote:On January 22 2013 08:34 BeanerBurrito wrote:
I feel like the stats and spell block from a linkins, or the much larger amount of health and regen offered from a heart is much more cost efficient as you reach the late game. And again that's what i care about when i'm thinking about my carry, I want to make sure they are stronger than my opponents carry at 30 40 or 50 minutes, and a mek can become a wasted slot in the late game. This is increasingly no longer the attitude that describes carry play anymore. It's why Tranquil+Drums/BKB is the standard on Luna rather than Treads+Helm, why PL gets Drums/Diffusal rather than Radiance. More and more the game is becoming geared toward earlier carry development and the requirement of carries being relevant at the 15 minute mark, rather than the 30 minute mark. The trend started in 6.73 (well, *started* earlier than that, but took off a lot in late 6.72 and early 6.73), and has only been increasing. Neglecting early game and focusing your carry play solely toward the latter part of the game is simply no longer the correct mindset when approaching carry play anymore. Isn't this more of a foreign vs. Chinese split in playstyle? The Chinese still seem to put a lot of emphasis on heavy farming for the ultimate six slot carry. Which is superior is up for debate (it varies, particularly depending on how close to flawless you think your opponents will play) but I wouldn't say the Chinese are doing it "wrong" at all.
I'd say the opposite is true. G-league was dominated by early aggression and mid game timing pushes. There was some games that were farm fests like LGD.cn and DK series was an exception rather than the normal pace of things. If you look at most of the other games, especially the semifinals, then you'll see LGD.int and IG going for early roaming and mid game timings with panda.
If you pay attention to Western dota with things like the defense and D2L however, you'll see a lot more farm fest games with tons of neutral stacking and passivity. That isn't to say some Western teams don't play extremely aggressively similar to Chinese style like eg for instance plays a lot of early aggression and mid game timing lineups, but I find western dota a lot more farmy than Chinese at he moment. That could just be a lack of Chinese dota at the moment though due to lunar new year. Gleague seems like forever ago 
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Miss G league. It's like there's a void in my soul that just can't be filled now
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On January 22 2013 09:47 Itsmedudeman wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2013 09:40 FuzzyJAM wrote:On January 22 2013 09:09 TheYango wrote:On January 22 2013 08:34 BeanerBurrito wrote:
I feel like the stats and spell block from a linkins, or the much larger amount of health and regen offered from a heart is much more cost efficient as you reach the late game. And again that's what i care about when i'm thinking about my carry, I want to make sure they are stronger than my opponents carry at 30 40 or 50 minutes, and a mek can become a wasted slot in the late game. This is increasingly no longer the attitude that describes carry play anymore. It's why Tranquil+Drums/BKB is the standard on Luna rather than Treads+Helm, why PL gets Drums/Diffusal rather than Radiance. More and more the game is becoming geared toward earlier carry development and the requirement of carries being relevant at the 15 minute mark, rather than the 30 minute mark. The trend started in 6.73 (well, *started* earlier than that, but took off a lot in late 6.72 and early 6.73), and has only been increasing. Neglecting early game and focusing your carry play solely toward the latter part of the game is simply no longer the correct mindset when approaching carry play anymore. Isn't this more of a foreign vs. Chinese split in playstyle? The Chinese still seem to put a lot of emphasis on heavy farming for the ultimate six slot carry. Which is superior is up for debate (it varies, particularly depending on how close to flawless you think your opponents will play) but I wouldn't say the Chinese are doing it "wrong" at all. Not really. The chinese don't favor heavy farming more than their western counterparts at all. I'd say the chinese are just more focused around having 1 carry only and the rest being a supporting cast rather than having a second or even third carry in each lane. I may even argue it's the other way around atm.
Hm. . .that's a fair point, actually.
Regardless though, they look to make their 1st position fat as fast as possible much more than the foreign community, so I do think there's a split in carry style.
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The chinese scene used to be known for farming and turtling, but like you said its different now, and things change over time in dota anyway
But still "60 minute chinese rice farm" is the best farm
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United States47024 Posts
On January 22 2013 09:40 FuzzyJAM wrote:Show nested quote +On January 22 2013 09:09 TheYango wrote:On January 22 2013 08:34 BeanerBurrito wrote:
I feel like the stats and spell block from a linkins, or the much larger amount of health and regen offered from a heart is much more cost efficient as you reach the late game. And again that's what i care about when i'm thinking about my carry, I want to make sure they are stronger than my opponents carry at 30 40 or 50 minutes, and a mek can become a wasted slot in the late game. This is increasingly no longer the attitude that describes carry play anymore. It's why Tranquil+Drums/BKB is the standard on Luna rather than Treads+Helm, why PL gets Drums/Diffusal rather than Radiance. More and more the game is becoming geared toward earlier carry development and the requirement of carries being relevant at the 15 minute mark, rather than the 30 minute mark. The trend started in 6.73 (well, *started* earlier than that, but took off a lot in late 6.72 and early 6.73), and has only been increasing. Neglecting early game and focusing your carry play solely toward the latter part of the game is simply no longer the correct mindset when approaching carry play anymore. Isn't this more of a foreign vs. Chinese split in playstyle? The Chinese still seem to put a lot of emphasis on heavy farming for the ultimate six slot carry. Which is superior is up for debate (it varies, particularly depending on how close to flawless you think your opponents will play) but I wouldn't say the Chinese are doing it "wrong" at all.
A lot of the biggest proponents and motivating factors in the more midgame-oriented styles prevalent today are from Chinese play (for example Luna's rise as a common carry pick).
Chinese teams are slow and methodical about *ending* games (they respect the difficulty of actually entering the base and don't try to high ground too early in a scenario that could allow a comeback), but that does not preclude or act counter to the idea of earlier carry relevance or a faster game tempo. Chinese carries will still come online early and have high teamfight participation.
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EPT
