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On January 17 2013 07:58 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 07:48 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On January 17 2013 07:42 crms wrote:On January 17 2013 07:35 SKC wrote:
I'm not sure it will help that much if you are in a fairly high MMR. I have very little experience with EM, but from what I remember most people that played it were either new players or very terrible, boots first auto-attacking terrible. Most people still played regular AP, no matter how good they were. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but if (for sake of discussion) 25% of the playerbase was removed because they went to -EM. The MMR boundaries or whatever valve uses to determine match making would 'tighten' up so even those at the top would (should) experience better games but at the cost of a longer queue. I might be totally full of shit with that interpretation, so I might need to be called out. Something with valves matchmaking is seriously goofed though, anyone who is reasonably high rated can tell you that. You can literally queue into a game on page 2 vs a well known NA stack, and the next game get matched with 4 people who pick 4 hard carries, no concept of lanes or strategy or how to use their hero. That is not a dramatic whine, stuff like this happens all, the, time.** **if you queue solo or duo. I don't have a lot of 4/5 stack data and what anecdotal information I would have for 4/5 stack issues would be very flawed since I 4/5 stack with a huge variety of skill between the players, which in theory seems hard to match-up. However, even in HoN playing with 3/4 the games were still reasonably matched. I think this is due to HoN not artificially inflating the rating of those that are grouped but simply taking the mmr average of all the players and finding an appropriate counterpart. I've heard rumors Valve artificially inflates rating of people grouped up because they assume the teamwork will be better but I dont think it's ever been confirmed since Valve doesn't have the best transparency. Sounds like you need a tryhard mode where it is mandatory to pick broken tier heroes and have an actual composition. So it's tryhard now to actually play the game with some shred of strategy, pick competent team comps and not expect to start the game with a massive disadvantage? 
I'm just pointing out that adding easy mode isn't going to change anything because some people are not going to be as try hard as you unless you get a full stack and clarify your intentions beforehand. Some people play games to have fun rather than trying to get everybody on the team 100% win rates. Playing to win is often at the expense of fun unless your sole desire is to win every game no matter what.
Expecting every game to be a balanced skill game is just setting yourself up for disappointment. Even pro games have lopsided drafts and in a game full of random people who have never met the chance only increases.
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United States47024 Posts
On January 17 2013 07:58 SupLilSon wrote:So it's tryhard now to actually play the game with some shred of strategy, pick competent team comps and not expect to start the game with a massive disadvantage?
Some people don't want to see every single must-pick/ban -CM hero in every game when they queue all pick.
Honestly games would get boring really fast that way.
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On January 17 2013 06:31 SKC wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 06:29 BurningSera wrote:On January 17 2013 06:13 crms wrote:
Least played mode.. what the fuck?
Can we just get real ladders or AR?
This mode? I don't even.. sigh. yup, the idea sounds fun but i am not sure about the fairness. I played almost all heroes anyway~~ please give us AR and SD with swap. Valve zzzzzz AR and SD are fair? It seems it can be fun, probally will be very random and obviously not the most competitive mode, but pubs are pubs.
yo random is always fair!!
Every void dodging all my lina's ulti /_\
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Appears meepo can't swap around his boots at all anymore, there seems to be some built in order of priority.
Travels>Treads, Phase, tranq, arcane
Treads>Phase, tranq, arcane
Arcane>Phase, tranqs
Phase>Tranq
And no order of picking them up seems to be able to break this pattern.
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It would take a long time for me to adjust playing with normal gold if I had to pick every game.
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On January 17 2013 08:10 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 07:58 SupLilSon wrote:So it's tryhard now to actually play the game with some shred of strategy, pick competent team comps and not expect to start the game with a massive disadvantage? Some people don't want to see every single must-pick/ban -CM hero in every game when they queue all pick. Honestly games would get boring really fast that way.
Plus the game would turn into a challenge to see which team could pick the most OP heroes faster. AP is not meant to have the most competitive picks, it's just not balanced. Tryhard doesn't always have to be an insult. Read it as competitive if you wish.
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On January 17 2013 08:12 Unleashing wrote:
Appears meepo can't swap around his boots at all anymore, there seems to be some built in order of priority.
Travels>Treads, Phase, tranq, arcane
Treads>Phase, tranq, arcane
Arcane>Phase, tranqs
Phase>Tranq
And no order of picking them up seems to be able to break this pattern.
did valve even consider n0tail when they made this change!
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United States47024 Posts
On January 17 2013 08:12 Unleashing wrote:
Appears meepo can't swap around his boots at all anymore, there seems to be some built in order of priority.
Travels>Treads, Phase, tranq, arcane
Treads>Phase, tranq, arcane
Arcane>Phase, tranqs
Phase>Tranq
And no order of picking them up seems to be able to break this pattern.
Wait, what, that priority order is different from DotA 1. In DotA 1, it was:
Arcane Boots>Phase Boots>Power Treads>Boots of Travel>Boots of Speed
This is actually a net nerf because having Treads by default and swapping to Travels by dropping your main Meepo's Treads was the most functional way to use the priority order (since you want Treads in combat anyway, you want Treads to be highest priority so you don't have to drop items to get them). Now Travels takes priority over Treads so you have to drop Travels to get Treads in combat--obviously dangerous because you don't want to lose your Travels by dropping them in a fight.
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@Above, yea i just tested in dota1, works nothing like dota1. And in dota1 it would appear tranquil take priority over all other boots. Didn't test with arcanes though.
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On January 17 2013 08:10 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 07:58 SupLilSon wrote:So it's tryhard now to actually play the game with some shred of strategy, pick competent team comps and not expect to start the game with a massive disadvantage? Some people don't want to see every single must-pick/ban -CM hero in every game when they queue all pick. Honestly games would get boring really fast that way.
Uh there's a huge difference between what you are describing and what he was complaining about...
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On January 17 2013 08:12 Unleashing wrote:
Appears meepo can't swap around his boots at all anymore, there seems to be some built in order of priority.
Travels>Treads, Phase, tranq, arcane
Treads>Phase, tranq, arcane
Arcane>Phase, tranqs
Phase>Tranq
And no order of picking them up seems to be able to break this pattern.
Yeah, thank god they nerfed Meepo. Such a ridicolously OP hero. And having an extra pair of boots in your amazing 6slot inventory is gamebreaking. Better nerf him before people go all boots on him and just swap them around!
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Netherlands45349 Posts
I can't be the only one who gets 4 carries on my team at most like once in every 30 games, even then we often have a decent shot at winning it because its a pub.
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On January 17 2013 08:57 Kipsate wrote:
I can't be the only one who gets 4 carries on my team at most like once in every 30 games, even then we often have a decent shot at winning it because its a pub.
similar situations happen to me aswell, https://dotabuff.com/matches/100395632, is a nice example of the famous "the more carrys the better" - strategy
medusa+spec lane new meta
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The new Least Played mode seems interesting. Might make me start playing some Syllibear.
On January 17 2013 08:23 DrPandaPhD wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 08:12 Unleashing wrote:
Appears meepo can't swap around his boots at all anymore, there seems to be some built in order of priority.
Travels>Treads, Phase, tranq, arcane
Treads>Phase, tranq, arcane
Arcane>Phase, tranqs
Phase>Tranq
And no order of picking them up seems to be able to break this pattern. Yeah, thank god they nerfed Meepo. Such a ridicolously OP hero. And having an extra pair of boots in your amazing 6slot inventory is gamebreaking. Better nerf him before people go all boots on him and just swap them around!
I made the mistake of reading this while drinking some juice. I laughed so hard I almost drowned and had to clean my keyboard after.
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On January 17 2013 08:05 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
I'm just pointing out that adding easy mode isn't going to change anything because some people are not going to be as try hard as you unless you get a full stack and clarify your intentions beforehand. Some people play games to have fun rather than trying to get everybody on the team 100% win rates. Playing to win is often at the expense of fun unless your sole desire is to win every game no matter what.
Who has fun losing all the time? No one, thats who.. Everyone plays to win. Thats why we play dota, to own nerds ^^
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On January 17 2013 09:07 StoRm_res wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 08:05 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
I'm just pointing out that adding easy mode isn't going to change anything because some people are not going to be as try hard as you unless you get a full stack and clarify your intentions beforehand. Some people play games to have fun rather than trying to get everybody on the team 100% win rates. Playing to win is often at the expense of fun unless your sole desire is to win every game no matter what.
Who has fun losing all the time? No one, thats who.. Everyone plays to win. Thats why we play dota, to own nerds ^^
You can easily have fun while you're losing and not everyone plays to win. The fun isn't sucked out of the game just because you lost the game.
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On January 17 2013 09:09 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 09:07 StoRm_res wrote:On January 17 2013 08:05 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
I'm just pointing out that adding easy mode isn't going to change anything because some people are not going to be as try hard as you unless you get a full stack and clarify your intentions beforehand. Some people play games to have fun rather than trying to get everybody on the team 100% win rates. Playing to win is often at the expense of fun unless your sole desire is to win every game no matter what.
Who has fun losing all the time? No one, thats who.. Everyone plays to win. Thats why we play dota, to own nerds ^^ You can easily have fun while you're losing and not everyone plays to win. The fun isn't sucked out of the game just because you lost the game.
Really? It sucks losing games because two players fight over mid or 2 carries fight over the safelane. Sure it's fun to mess around, you don't have to pick top tier heros all the time or go optimal items. No one is saying that at all. What is NOT FUN is joining a game and having teammates raging before creeps even spawn. It's a headache and frankly makes the game seem more like wasted time than anything else.
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So for the offlane, what are the good hero options?
At the top of my head: WR, Mirana, Beastmaster, DS?
Not sure if Rubick, or sometimes juggernaut is a good option.
This is assuming the enemy has a good duo pick like PL/KOTL or Sven + Stunner
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On January 17 2013 09:17 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On January 17 2013 09:09 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:On January 17 2013 09:07 StoRm_res wrote:On January 17 2013 08:05 Blitzkrieg0 wrote:
I'm just pointing out that adding easy mode isn't going to change anything because some people are not going to be as try hard as you unless you get a full stack and clarify your intentions beforehand. Some people play games to have fun rather than trying to get everybody on the team 100% win rates. Playing to win is often at the expense of fun unless your sole desire is to win every game no matter what.
Who has fun losing all the time? No one, thats who.. Everyone plays to win. Thats why we play dota, to own nerds ^^ You can easily have fun while you're losing and not everyone plays to win. The fun isn't sucked out of the game just because you lost the game. Really? It sucks losing games because two players fight over mid or 2 carries fight over the safelane. Sure it's fun to mess around, you don't have to pick top tier heros all the time or go optimal items. No one is saying that at all. What is NOT FUN is joining a game and having teammates raging before creeps even spawn. It's a headache and frankly makes the game seem more like wasted time than anything else.
and adding em isn't going to change that either.
On January 17 2013 09:20 KezseN wrote:
So for the offlane, what are the good hero options?
At the top of my head: WR, Mirana, Beastmaster, DS?
Not sure if Rubick, or sometimes juggernaut is a good option.
This is assuming the enemy has a good duo pick like PL/KOTL or Sven + Stunner
To beat PL KotL you need some combination that can kill them. They're about sustained harassment not engaging in a man fight.
Any dual stun lane is going to be a try to sneak as much exp as possible lane no matter what hero you're playing. You might get a little farm from ion shell as dark seer, but you shouldn't be getting exp when they can come kill you at any moment.
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EPT
