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On January 05 2013 01:21 Skullflower wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 01:18 trinxified wrote:On January 05 2013 01:10 Skullflower wrote:On January 04 2013 19:39 akatama wrote:
So Ursa has been used competitively with success... I guess Bloodseeker is the last hero to remain unused? Next.kz were using Ursa and winning with it in competitive play a long time ago. On January 04 2013 19:48 Alur wrote:On January 04 2013 19:39 akatama wrote:
So Ursa has been used competitively with success... I guess Bloodseeker is the last hero to remain unused? Has meepo and zeus been used? (Dota 2) I'm fairly certain EG ran Meepo once. Using a hero and having an impact is different from just running it though. He just asked if they've been used. Not if they were run effectively and had a clear impact on the outcome of the game.
I guess. I mean I was just thinking that it doesn't matter when a hero is picked or not, but if it actually affected the game by a lot.
A team can pick Meepo but just jungle all game, while the other 4 heroes push out and win the game. Technically the impact there is that 4 heroes got more XP/gold farm from the lanes. Is that considered a big impact?
Or if Meepo fed all game but the team won anyway. You can argue that Meepo took the attention away from the other heroes and that allowed the rest to roll out the opponent.
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Zeus was used during TI1 I think, so was probably BS unless he wasn't out during that time. I think only Axe was unused back then and he saw some minor playtime later with all the buffs.
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On January 05 2013 02:02 NeonFlare wrote:
Zeus was used during TI1 I think, so was probably BS unless he wasn't out during that time. I think only Axe was unused back then and he saw some minor playtime later with all the buffs.
Bloodseeker wasn't out at the time. I think he was used as a trollpick in games that didn't matter, but I don't remember a "real" Dota 2 game with him.
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Just curious, but why is wisp so unpopular in chinese dota? Was he unpopular a month or two ago as well?
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Because chinese team group up as 5 really early so you can't gank anyone. Same reason why we don't see BH that often during chinese matches.
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On January 05 2013 02:41 BlitzerSC wrote:
Because chinese team group up as 5 really early so you can't gank anyone. Same reason why we don't see BH that often during chinese matches.
........ ?
BH is used all the time by iG and LGD.
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United States47024 Posts
If anything, iG is the team that started using BH before anyone else did--way back at the end of 6.72 when the team just merged and they were playing multi-semi-carry teamcomps.
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He got picked 4 times ( and he wasn't first pick, but always one of the last ) and banned once.
One or two months ago he was first pick/ban material but now he isn't anymore.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
Tongfu played it a bit too, rOtk aswell(although not a great one IIRC). Not sure about FL.
iG did their bumrush NS/BH/Sven lineup that destroyed everyone shortly after the patch.
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Track Gold imba... great for the whole team even if you are just 5-manning.
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On January 05 2013 02:47 TheYango wrote:
If anything, iG is the team that started using BH before anyone else did--way back at the end of 6.72 when the team just merged and they were playing multi-semi-carry teamcomps.
Ah yes. the iG BH/NS/Sven train of pain.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
Also, you have to realize that a BH in China gets shutdown relativly harder then one in the Western scene. If you recall some games that people played BH against team DK, it wasn't pretty (0-7 by 12 minutes 1 game IIRC). Sentry wards in the lane before the BH even gets to the lane basically.
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United States47024 Posts
On January 05 2013 02:53 Skullflower wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 02:47 TheYango wrote:
If anything, iG is the team that started using BH before anyone else did--way back at the end of 6.72 when the team just merged and they were playing multi-semi-carry teamcomps. Ah yes. the iG BH/NS/Sven train of pain.
No, that's this year in 6.75.
I'm talking way before that. They played BH in SMM 2011 last year when the team had just formed from the merge of iG.Z and iG.Y, and BH was a hero that let them handle some pretty weird farm allocation.
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On January 05 2013 02:55 Kipsate wrote:
Also, you have to realize that a BH in China gets shutdown relativly harder then one in the Western scene. If you recall some games that people played BH against team DK, it wasn't pretty (0-7 by 12 minutes 1 game IIRC). Sentry wards in the lane before the BH even gets to the lane basically.
This is true - right now China is REALLY concerned about giving as much room to their 1 carry as possible while shutting down the offlane of the opponent as much as can be done. Its weird how China is in 15-20 minute ricefests right now while EU is still extremely aggressive (except IG)
Edit: What about wisp T.T
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United States47024 Posts
On January 05 2013 03:01 Comeh wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 02:55 Kipsate wrote:
Also, you have to realize that a BH in China gets shutdown relativly harder then one in the Western scene. If you recall some games that people played BH against team DK, it wasn't pretty (0-7 by 12 minutes 1 game IIRC). Sentry wards in the lane before the BH even gets to the lane basically. This is true - right now China is REALLY concerned about giving as much room to their 1 carry as possible while shutting down the offlane of the opponent as much as can be done. Its weird how China is in 15-20 minute ricefests right now while EU is still extremely aggressive (except IG)
It's not a playstyle choice, it's just better lane control fundamentals in playing safe lane vs. off-lane.
Even when iG is playing extremely aggressive gank/dive strategies, Chuan and Faith can guarantee a 0-XP enemy off-laner.
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On January 05 2013 03:05 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On January 05 2013 03:01 Comeh wrote:On January 05 2013 02:55 Kipsate wrote:
Also, you have to realize that a BH in China gets shutdown relativly harder then one in the Western scene. If you recall some games that people played BH against team DK, it wasn't pretty (0-7 by 12 minutes 1 game IIRC). Sentry wards in the lane before the BH even gets to the lane basically. This is true - right now China is REALLY concerned about giving as much room to their 1 carry as possible while shutting down the offlane of the opponent as much as can be done. Its weird how China is in 15-20 minute ricefests right now while EU is still extremely aggressive (except IG) It's not a playstyle choice, it's just better lane control fundamentals in playing safe lane vs. off-lane. Even when iG is playing extremely aggressive gank/dive strategies, Chuan and Faith can guarantee a 0-XP enemy off-laner.
Well, this is in comparison to more aggressive trilanes (which is almost standard in EU), much more aggressive supports / almost pointless fights. China really feels more goal oriented about being passive until hitting a timing and either defending a 20 minute push or initiating one (pushing with luna / LD, split pushing with AM).
But yeah, supports are much better at controlling the offlane than EU teams are.
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United States47024 Posts
Chinese teams don't play aggressive trilanes as often because it's generally seen as a sort of all-in, and in a way it is.
If the team with the defensive trilane is able to win or stabilize the aggressive trilane, the game becomes very difficult due to the aggressive trilane supports being underleveled.
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Yeah - I know that, I'm just curious why we never see wisp in Chinadota. Is it because of the popularity of luna-style pushes in the midgame, that by the time wisp hits 6, there will rarely be any opportunities to use it? Or does it have more to do with desiring supports that can do a little bit more overall than just the baby sitter wisp?
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On January 05 2013 02:48 BlitzerSC wrote:
He got picked 4 times ( and he wasn't first pick, but always one of the last ) and banned once.
One or two months ago he was first pick/ban material but now he isn't anymore.
He's still picked in gank heavy strats. And BH never really warranted fp/fb; that was just teams overhyping the usefulness of BH.
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EPT
