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General Discussion - Page 1731

Forum Index > Dota 2 General
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IRC chatter should remain in IRC - http://webchat.quakenet.org/?channels=tl.dota2

Posts that relate to topics with their own thread, such as in News, Tournaments or Strategy should go in those threads.
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
December 24 2012 03:06 GMT
#34601
On December 24 2012 11:57 konadora wrote:
hmm i've been thinking lately, on an offensive trilane suicide lane, why don't people go tide + rubick + another hero to make the safelane carry's damage output low?

Tide has to get in melee range to do it and Bane doesn't
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-24 03:08:01
December 24 2012 03:06 GMT
#34602
On December 24 2012 11:57 konadora wrote:
hmm i've been thinking lately, on an offensive trilane suicide lane, why don't people go tide + rubick + another hero to make the safelane carry's damage output low?

In general, an aggressive trilane has to aim to get kills. It's not good enough to just suppress the enemy carry's farm, because the fact that your supports lose out on pulling XP/gold means you have to get kills to make up for it.

Keeping down an enemy carry in exchange for having 2 underleveled supports isn't worth it because the carry gets more room to farm midgame than the supports do. Tide+Rubick might still end up on an aggressive trilane together, but the trilane has to have killing power somewhere--and both Rubick and Tide need level 6 for their killing power to reach dangerous levels (Tide needs Ravage, and Rubick needs to steal a second damage spell).
Moderator
blahz0r
Profile Joined December 2010
3030 Posts
December 24 2012 03:07 GMT
#34603
Not using BKB when Ravage goes off is a huge blunder. Ravage isn't instant. By having Overgrowth be available when your opponents activate magic immunity can make it difficult on your opponent on how they should engage into fights, or forcing them to activate it just for Overgrowth can have its advantages/disadvantages. If your intention is to point out that Ravage > Overgrowth, you're just plain wrong.

No absolute damage output, what? His auto damage has one of the highest base and level gains. Burst damage he might be lacking sure. He's also able to do okay in most 1v1 matchups during the laning phase. It's more that his skills don't add to his auto attack damage output or his mobility as a hero compared with other ones.

Again Overgrowth has its uses.
Liquipedia
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-24 03:15:36
December 24 2012 03:14 GMT
#34604
Comparing heroes skill-to-skill is honestly a really disingenuous way of looking at heroes on the whole which is unfortunately quite common. Everyone loves to compare RP to Black Hole, and point to RP as the reason that Magnus is strong right now, without taking note of how Magnus was a weaker pick forever (RP was literally unchanged from 6.63 to 6.76). Magnus shot up because Icefrog buffed the rest of his skills to be good, when previously, Enigma's weaker ultimate was counteracted by him having 3 other stronger skills (in particular Demonic Conversion being an absolutely incredible jack-of-all trades skill that allows Enigma to jungle, deny hard lane, and push all extremely effectively).

Same with Tide vs. Treant. The Ravage vs. Overgrowth comparison actually means very little--but Tide's other skills are all very powerful and useful in a variety of situations and critical to his usefulness as a hero, while Leech Seed and Living Armor are mediocre skills that have cooldowns that don't match the strength of their effects.
Moderator
trinxified
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada7774 Posts
December 24 2012 03:46 GMT
#34605
Just make Overgrowth Global range instead. I think that will fix it.
BurningSera
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Ireland19621 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-24 04:20:21
December 24 2012 04:02 GMT
#34606
Treant used to be about being one of the tankiest heroes in the game (no.1 or 2 str growth), being able to eat up alot damage and hit really hard since the early phase of the game. I used to pick him when i feel like 'tryinghard', just go in and ulti and whack the fragile heroes, any good team will clean up the rest of the oppo without much problems. Unlike ES, treant can actually get out of team fight safely unless there is no tree around.

But then the nerf hammer -_- for people who didnt know the changes of treant:
+ Show Spoiler +
6.77 - Leech Seed cooldown decreased from 18/16/14/12 to 16/14/12/10
6.77 - Overgrowth cooldown decreased from 80 to 70
6.77 - Living Armor damage instances increased from 6 to 7
6.77 - Living Armor can be cast through the minimap (only considers heroes and towers/rax in this mode)
6.77 - Damage increased by 10
6.76c - Living Armor cooldown and duration decreased from from 20 to 15
6.76c - Living Armor manacost decreased 30/35/40/45 to 25
6.76 - Strength growth increased from 2.8 to 3.3
6.76 - Living Armor HP regen increased from 4/6/8/10 to 4/7/10/13
6.75 - Living Armor aura replaced with a new active ability
6.75 - Overgrowth no longer does damage
6.75 - Overgrowth duration from 3 to 3/3.75/4.5
6.75 - Overgrowth cooldown from 115/105/95 to 80
6.75 - Damage increased by 14
6.75 - Base attack time increased from 1.7 to 1.9
6.73 - Leech Seed manacost increased from 110/120/130/140 to 140
6.73 - Overgrowth damage per second decreased from 70/100/130 to 50/75/100
6.72d - Overgrowth cooldown increased from 100/95/90 to 115/105/95
6.72d - Strength from 27 + 3.4 to 25 + 2.8
6.72c - Added a 2 second fade time to Nature's Guise
6.72c - Overgrowth AOE reduced from 725 to 625
6.72c - Living Armor regeneration reduced from 2/3/4/5 to 1/2/3/4
6.72b - Living Armor now regenerates buildings only in a 900 aoe
6.72b - Leech Seed cooldown rescaled from 12 to 18/16/14/12
6.72b - base armor reduced by 1
6.72 - Overgrowth rebalanced
6.72 - Living Armor Reworked
6.72 - Forest Sentinel Replaced with Leech Seed
6.72 - Nature's Guise keeps the target invisible for up to 1 second after leaving the
6.72 - proximity of a tree, except during the initial cast
6.72 - Nature's Guise now gives the unit a 10% movement speed bonus
6.72 - Armor reduced by 1
6.72 - Nature's Guise cooldown increased from 3 seconds to 10/8/6/4 seconds
6.70 - Living Armor regeneration from 1/2/3/4 to 2/3/4/5
6.67 - Reworked Eyes in the Forest
6.63 - Attack range changed from 100 to 128
6.61 - Casting Nature's Guise on an allied unit (or other spells) will no longer take
6.61 - you out if you have it on you
6.60 - Reworked Eyes in the Forest
6.58 - Living Armor is now castable on structures
6.48b - Increased Rooftrellen's Agility per level


Overgrowth is literally a weaker version of Ravage (the AoE, damage and being able to spell/items during its duration). Removing the owl/free ward is FINE but that ulti nerf killed the hero since then. But like yango said Treant is not being picked not because of his ulti but overall as a hero. Compare to tide, Treant is just bad in every way.

Jesus, i miss the day when treant can whack so hard in early game.
is 2017, stop being lame, fuck's sakes. 'Can't wait for the rise of the cakes and humanity's last stand tbqh.'
Kipsate
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Netherlands45349 Posts
December 24 2012 04:05 GMT
#34607
Rush MoM on Treant

Go invis
Root squishy
MoM
wham wham wham

is how I used to play Treant years back, also Radiance for lolz.
WriterXiao8~~
FinestHour
Profile Joined August 2010
United States18466 Posts
December 24 2012 04:30 GMT
#34608
theemulator we should do carry treant silliness when i come back from taiwan on leagueoflegendssummonergirl2000 account
thug life.                                                       MVP/ex-
blahz0r
Profile Joined December 2010
3030 Posts
December 24 2012 04:38 GMT
#34609
Bring back gifts =x

BurningSera: The reasons you listed there does not make it a weaker version of Ravage. Overgrowth has its uses.
Liquipedia
Gentso
Profile Joined July 2010
United States2218 Posts
December 24 2012 04:46 GMT
#34610
Not sure if Lifestealer is new FOTM or he's just coincidentally in half the games I play/watch.
BurningSera
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Ireland19621 Posts
December 24 2012 04:55 GMT
#34611
On December 24 2012 13:38 blahz0r wrote:
Bring back gifts =x

BurningSera: The reasons you listed there does not make it a weaker version of Ravage. Overgrowth has its uses.


Weak =/= useless.
is 2017, stop being lame, fuck's sakes. 'Can't wait for the rise of the cakes and humanity's last stand tbqh.'
Random_Guy09
Profile Joined April 2012
Canada1010 Posts
December 24 2012 04:56 GMT
#34612
On December 24 2012 13:46 Gentso wrote:
Not sure if Lifestealer is new FOTM or he's just coincidentally in half the games I play/watch.


Just more teams experimenting with new tactics probably. Refreshing really to have the meta change so fast after the whole sven/mag combo being the thing at DH and now seeing wisp+ some burst carries coming to play.
FinestHour
Profile Joined August 2010
United States18466 Posts
December 24 2012 05:04 GMT
#34613
3000 people watch fnc play naix on merlini stream and win so they want to do it themselves
thug life.                                                       MVP/ex-
PassiveAce
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States18076 Posts
December 24 2012 05:18 GMT
#34614
Naix has been a popular pubstomper for a while? I mean hes been my go-to pubstomp hero since iv started playing over a year ago.
Call me Marge Simpson cuz I love you homie
trinxified
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada7774 Posts
December 24 2012 05:24 GMT
#34615
On December 24 2012 14:18 PassiveAce wrote:
Naix has been a popular pubstomper for a while? I mean hes been my go-to pubstomp hero since iv started playing over a year ago.


Drow is a more reliable pubstomper in my opinion. At least after the changes on her ulti.
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
December 24 2012 05:32 GMT
#34616
On December 24 2012 14:24 trinxified wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 24 2012 14:18 PassiveAce wrote:
Naix has been a popular pubstomper for a while? I mean hes been my go-to pubstomp hero since iv started playing over a year ago.


Drow is a more reliable pubstomper in my opinion. At least after the changes on her ulti.

People criticize you less for picking Na'ix than Drow.
Moderator
5-s
Profile Joined June 2010
United States1674 Posts
December 24 2012 05:59 GMT
#34617
On December 24 2012 13:56 Random_Guy09 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 24 2012 13:46 Gentso wrote:
Not sure if Lifestealer is new FOTM or he's just coincidentally in half the games I play/watch.


Just more teams experimenting with new tactics probably. Refreshing really to have the meta change so fast after the whole sven/mag combo being the thing at DH and now seeing wisp+ some burst carries coming to play.

Sven / mag shoulda never been the standard meta imo; even during DH other teams who weren't there criticized the turtly playstyle of DH.
I liked Dota before it was Mainstream.
yyfpulls
Profile Joined November 2012
United States2185 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-24 06:09:48
December 24 2012 06:07 GMT
#34618
The one time I played Treant, I had never felt so useless in teamfights.
hootsushi
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany3468 Posts
December 24 2012 06:14 GMT
#34619
On December 24 2012 14:24 trinxified wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 24 2012 14:18 PassiveAce wrote:
Naix has been a popular pubstomper for a while? I mean hes been my go-to pubstomp hero since iv started playing over a year ago.


Drow is a more reliable pubstomper in my opinion. At least after the changes on her ulti.


From my experience, Drow you need decent support in the early stage atleast. Lifestealer just comes out of the jungle after 20 minutes. Fun ends now. Talking about pubs ofc.
PassiveAce
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States18076 Posts
December 24 2012 06:15 GMT
#34620
Lane lifestealer is best lifestealer. 9 minute armlet ftw.
Call me Marge Simpson cuz I love you homie
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