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On December 17 2012 10:08 FinestHour wrote:
so my friend who is not that great at dota linked this to me and was talking about the rng in dota (jinada guaranteed crit vs coup de grace chance argument) and map disparities (rosh pit) as well as some of the other arguments in the vid and was convinced that league was better because there wasnt any of this
such subtle features are what make dota such an exciting and dynamic game with infinite possibilities, but i agree that first hit bear entangles can be extremely frustrating as well as getting pa crit 3 times in a row that could possibly change the tide of a high stakes tournament game, and compared to stale gameplay i can see/understand why certain individuals would prefer that that all players have the exact same starting pieces, tools, and map to play on
thoughts?
So what about Baron being on one side of the map while Dragon being on the other? Clearly those two aren't equivalent either.
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dota is imba but I dont care cuz we dont play for high stakes. chance based things just make for more super tense awesome moments which makes dota great.
my 2c
also pick/ban is an extremely effective tool for creating balanced games in professional settings.
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On December 17 2012 10:12 ch33psh33p wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2012 10:08 FinestHour wrote:
so my friend who is not that great at dota linked this to me and was talking about the rng in dota (jinada guaranteed crit vs coup de grace chance argument) and map disparities (rosh pit) as well as some of the other arguments in the vid and was convinced that league was better because there wasnt any of this
such subtle features are what make dota such an exciting and dynamic game with infinite possibilities, but i agree that first hit bear entangles can be extremely frustrating as well as getting pa crit 3 times in a row that could possibly change the tide of a high stakes tournament game, and compared to stale gameplay i can see/understand why certain individuals would prefer that that all players have the exact same starting pieces, tools, and map to play on
thoughts? So what about Baron being on one side of the map while Dragon being on the other? Clearly those two aren't equivalent either.
In tournament games neither League nor Dota allow both teams to use the same hero - this can be seen as unfair.
Likewise Starcraft races are completely different, so non-mirror matches should be seen as victim to imbalance, even if the races are balanced.
I mean, take out the range of damage on heroes, creeps, and towers too (48-68 dmg, for example, should be replaced with an average in this theory - fyi all heroes do a range of damage, but only the average is shown).
Heck, why don't we just play pong. But even then, the ball starts moving in one direction as opposed to the others.
However, if instead of theorycrafting the imbalance in this game, we just look at the so-called "Dire advantage," you see that it is offset by Radiant first pick and the game is 1165-1107 in pro games, where matches are played back and forth dire-radiant-dire. Whatever randomness there is in the game, it remains OVERALL rather balanced. And that's amazing, when you think about it.
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wow the guy removed the video because of all the crap he was getting LOL
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luck is part of the fun, sure it's frustrating when that bear always first hit entangle against you, but when you are the sylla, its rly funny.
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On December 17 2012 10:09 Malky wrote:Recommendation time TL'ers. Me and a friend have taken up playing the carry/support safelane for our pubbing adventures. So far we've tried: CK + Wisp CK+ AA Naix + AA Sven + Jakiro Phantom Lancer + Jakiro Riki + Jakiro Luna + Jakiro Luna + Vengeful(This is hilarious, hitting for 100 at level 3) What we really want is more heroes to go with AA, specifically stuff like CK and Naix that makes Cold feet always stun. Other Duo lanes we could look into would be appreciated aswell 
Veno is amazing, but not a carry. But take Veno + Chilling touch and it's like easiest kills of your life in lane. Chilling touch is broken right now for the laning phase, and people aren't prepared for it.
Naga is also pretty imba with AA, with net keeping people in place and then huge chilling touch damage ftw. Lancer maybe? Leo is pretty meh sadly, but has a guaranteed stun + slow.
Btw, what do you guys think about OoV on supports, especially hard ones? It's super cheap, and give you a slight slow on all your attack that could help a lot in ganks and whatsnot (4% slow is about 15 ms), and give you moderate damage (12 damage over 4 seconds). As a support you usually have an inventory filled with branches, and keeping a slot free for OoV could be worth it. I always do it on Ogre, for example, and often on Omni, but omni usually take some farm and want to drop OoV relatively early on. I was thinking to take it on Rilay for example, and i did it on veno also. Beastmaster would like it too, but BM farm out of it relatively fast.
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United States47024 Posts
Ranged OoV is absolutely worthless because 4% slow does nothing. Don't even know why you would even consider it on ranged.
Melee OoV is cute if you can get it at the start with Boots and random gold. Without Boots, there's not a whole lot of point in having OoV because Boots is a larger MS differential than OoV (50 ms vs. ~40--if they have Boots and you have OoV, you're still going to be slower than them).
In general for a support spending 275 gold on a zero-stat item is a pretty shitty proposition. Your gold is too tight to afford buying something like that.
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It's 4% btw , it's basically +4 level on veno passive.
It's broken i tell you.
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the only support i see that get orb of venom is the multicast master.
slarks get it too.
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On December 17 2012 10:30 Erasme wrote:
luck is part of the fun, sure it's frustrating when that bear always first hit entangle against you, but when you are the sylla, its rly funny.
What about the times when you dominate the enemy mid, but he decides to go to a rune spawn 4-5 seconds before it does, and he gets it there and it is exactly the one he is looking for. I swear, I've had more regens spawn to lucky guesses on either side than I bottled knowing it was a Regen in the first place.
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then bottlecrow and keep on dominating him
a regen is far less dangerous than a dd/invis/haste, ofc you won't be able to kill him, but you're not gonna die either
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On December 17 2012 10:49 akatama wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2012 10:30 Erasme wrote:
luck is part of the fun, sure it's frustrating when that bear always first hit entangle against you, but when you are the sylla, its rly funny. What about the times when you dominate the enemy mid, but he decides to go to a rune spawn 4-5 seconds before it does, and he gets it there and it is exactly the one he is looking for. I swear, I've had more regens spawn to lucky guesses on either side than I bottled knowing it was a Regen in the first place.
that is why i hate mid unless im feeling tryhard mode and bottle crow. worst rune luck ever unlike a certain swede!
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United States47024 Posts
On December 17 2012 10:49 akatama wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2012 10:30 Erasme wrote:
luck is part of the fun, sure it's frustrating when that bear always first hit entangle against you, but when you are the sylla, its rly funny. What about the times when you dominate the enemy mid, but he decides to go to a rune spawn 4-5 seconds before it does, and he gets it there and it is exactly the one he is looking for. I swear, I've had more regens spawn to lucky guesses on either side than I bottled knowing it was a Regen in the first place.
If you have that much control over mid, then he should miss at least one (possibly more) waves of XP/lasthits to get the rune. You send yourself a salve/clarity and send your Bottle home. The amount of gold you spent on the Salve and Clarity is less than the gold he lost to go get the rune, and when your courier comes back, you have a full bottle too.
Alternatively, you just follow him to whichever rune he went to and just kill him.
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On December 17 2012 10:49 akatama wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2012 10:30 Erasme wrote:
luck is part of the fun, sure it's frustrating when that bear always first hit entangle against you, but when you are the sylla, its rly funny. What about the times when you dominate the enemy mid, but he decides to go to a rune spawn 4-5 seconds before it does, and he gets it there and it is exactly the one he is looking for. I swear, I've had more regens spawn to lucky guesses on either side than I bottled knowing it was a Regen in the first place.
That is because you tend to remember the ones that were game changing and forget all the other ones. Natural human behavior. If you lack rune control you aren't actually dominating the mid hard enough. Should have followed him and prevented him from getting that regen rune.
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On December 17 2012 10:36 Gheizen64 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2012 10:09 Malky wrote:Recommendation time TL'ers. Me and a friend have taken up playing the carry/support safelane for our pubbing adventures. So far we've tried: CK + Wisp CK+ AA Naix + AA Sven + Jakiro Phantom Lancer + Jakiro Riki + Jakiro Luna + Jakiro Luna + Vengeful(This is hilarious, hitting for 100 at level 3) What we really want is more heroes to go with AA, specifically stuff like CK and Naix that makes Cold feet always stun. Other Duo lanes we could look into would be appreciated aswell Veno is amazing, but not a carry. But take Veno + Chilling touch and it's like easiest kills of your life in lane. Chilling touch is broken right now for the laning phase, and people aren't prepared for it. Naga is also pretty imba with AA, with net keeping people in place and then huge chilling touch damage ftw. Lancer maybe? Leo is pretty meh sadly, but has a guaranteed stun + slow. Btw, what do you guys think about OoV on supports, especially hard ones? It's super cheap, and give you a slight slow on all your attack that could help a lot in ganks and whatsnot (4% slow is about 15 ms), and give you moderate damage (12 damage over 4 seconds). As a support you usually have an inventory filled with branches, and keeping a slot free for OoV could be worth it. I always do it on Ogre, for example, and often on Omni, but omni usually take some farm and want to drop OoV relatively early on. I was thinking to take it on Rilay for example, and i did it on veno also. Beastmaster would like it too, but BM farm out of it relatively fast.
Not going to pick up AA + Veno, as part of the appeal to us going carry/support lane is that we have an actual mid-late game presence, Veno + AA wont give us that, Naga + AA should be pretty good yeah, ill add it on to the list of stuff to try.
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United States47024 Posts
Lifestealer + Lina is pretty fun.
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On December 17 2012 11:11 TheYango wrote:
Lifestealer + Lina is pretty fun.
My friend has an aversion to Lina, hes lands 8/10 stuns just doesnt like the spell heh. This should be pretty damn good aswell tho.
On December 17 2012 11:10 Erasme wrote:
jugg veno
jugg cm
Unless you get obscene farm Juggs just doesnt seem to cut it past the 35min mark
Thanks guys!
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On December 17 2012 11:14 Malky wrote:My friend has an aversion to Lina, hes lands 8/10 stuns just doesnt like the spell heh. This should be pretty damn good aswell tho. Unless you get obscene farm Juggs just doesnt seem to cut it past the 35min mark Thanks guys!
thats cuz the jugs you're playing with are terrible. sure hes not the best late game hero but you can be so damn active early mid game.
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On December 17 2012 11:14 Malky wrote:Unless you get obscene farm Juggs just doesnt seem to cut it past the 35min mark
You don't need some late game carry. Just play aggressive all game and your Jugg will get farmed and the enemy will not be farmed...and you win (unless you just don't decide to push their rax)
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EPT
