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On December 08 2012 10:26 unkkz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2012 09:32 DrPandaPhD wrote:On December 08 2012 08:32 unkkz wrote:
Ok seriously i have to ask, how do you get up in the ranks? I am a more then decent dota player, mid level i'd guess and i swear i cannot advance to higher play. There is no way i am at where i am supposed to be atm. I have 35 wins and 55 losses so far and i have tried carrying games in so many ways. I just lost a game as a pumped as hell Luna, heart, manta, satanic, shadow blade and i was 16 - 2, being three levels above the enemy teams highest player and i still lost that game. Enemy finally smartened up and poured _everything_ onto me and i died and that was gg since my teammates were less then stellar. Use bkb more so i can solo and entire team easier?
I have bad days, sure and am ocasionally the feeder but overall i have by far the best stats on my team trying to help out as much as possible but... the teammates just... no wards ofcourse, obviously, nobody ever buys dust either but i do for easy kills. The biggest thing is they engage in fights whenever they are outnumbered or in really bad spots and they all just die with me spamming "do not engage, run back". Anyone have any tips on actually winning low level games? It's not the lowest of the low levels but it's pretty low. Like people always mock me for going SB with gondar and swear battlefury is the way to go. That level of play. Honestly, not to sound rude but if you are stuck in midlevel you are "not a more than decent". I consider myself decent and my team has won vs somewhat known teams like Out of Tangos in tournaments. Similar to physics / math, the more you learn, the more you realize how much more there is to learn. Like all the mid-late game decisionmaking as all roles, teamfight positioning. Knowing what your role is supposed to do in a teamfight rather than just be "fighting". Being mid you have to know how to control the runes, how to never fail ganks because it would be inefficient. Knowing how to keep your momentum from a good start to continue snowballing. Or how to come back from a bad start to be relevant in the game. Knowing when to fight and defend towers, and when to splitpush and abandon them because you can't defend them. Also another "proof" that you have a lot to improve on is that you use your score as a "proof" that you are good. You have to realize that score is far from everything. Since you are facing weak opponents it's easier to get good score. Even though you lost a 16-2 game means you probably also have won a 0-10ish game. It goes both ways, you just have to be consistant. You can always try to improve your mechanical part of the game. Like never fail last-hits, because they are super important, having 20 more CS at 6min is gamechanging. You should also be checking minimap like very frequently. You should check the minimap constantly, like every 5seconds, throughout the game. You should always notice when there are movement towards you from the enemy team. Or if a level 6 tidehunter suddenly disappeared from another lane. Can't blame it on wards if he tp'd to the tower. Wards help but there are counters to them. It's when you are facing opponents who know what they are doing it's difficult. It's stupidly difficult to gank Scandal, trust me, I've tried T_T Sorry to say, but you are stuck there for a reason. Stop blaming it on your teammates and start to improve yourself. I've never met someone who is stuck at a certain skill and felt like they deserve to be higher. Keep practicing, you will become better. Dota has incredible depth, it just took me like 3000 matches to realize that. But most importantly, have fun. Simply by playing the game you will improve, cause most of the decision making you have to do only comes from experience. Good luck : ) + Show Spoiler +
Nice post but all that which you wrote, does not happen in my games. I don't "need to control the runes"(yet i do somewhat) because nobody goes for the runes dude, if they do it's by mere chance. I consider myself mid level and do fine when i queue with a friend who is in the "high" pool. He carries me a lil bit but other then that i do ok if i play tank/support.
Solo is another thing. It's not me when my bottom lane has fed a nyx to 8 - 0 10 min into the game and he now has a rank 2 dagon and just walsing around two shotting everyone. It's not me when it takes the entire enemy team to kill me and my teammates don't engage. It's not me when i blink in on axe, taunt 3+ players with blade mail rolling and the rest of my team stands idly by our base tower even though i called blinking 5 seconds earlier.
I played Slardar tonight and a caught two enemies in our woods by the hard creeps on green side, and i have two teammates in the mid lane. It takes the two heroes i caught close to 30 seconds to kill me(casters i had a hood and they kept ccing since i was actually killing them) and i don't drop until they have a third enter. My teammates never moved an inch from farming despite me pinging and typing like a madman.
Those are my games dude. I can sure as hell improve a ton, but as to me getting to some decent games where my teams picks aren't: Void, drow, antimage and some other damage dealer it's really all about having the most god awfull teammates known to man. Hence i asked for the best faceroll hero there is so i can win games alone because that's what i have to do.
To make it even clearer, people don't lasthit or deny in my games on either sides, rare occasions happen where they do but most often they just auto attack. That's where i am atm and i really really need to get out.
Compared to the best players i am god awfull ofcourse, but on a public non pro gamer level, i am decent. Say Low masters if u wanna use SC2 terms.
You have to play in sync with your team, even if you think they're making the wrong decision. It should dawn on you before thirty seconds of jungle kiting that your team isn't coming to help and you should just run away. You don't win games by being a martyr to show your team how bad they are.
If nobody denies, last hits, or controls runes in your game you should be able to get fed middle and just steamroll the enemy team with absolutely anyone. No lane can feed off your teammates when you're strolling in with runes and owning their face. It's a lot easier to see what people are doing wrong on your team and think that is why you're losing than actually own up to the mistakes you're making. Instead of focusing on how badly your teammates are playing think about ways you can improve because you can't control your teammates unless you start playing with a stack.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
On December 08 2012 09:35 tauon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2012 08:32 unkkz wrote:
Ok seriously i have to ask, how do you get up in the ranks? I am a more then decent dota player, mid level i'd guess and i swear i cannot advance to higher play. There is no way i am at where i am supposed to be atm. I have 35 wins and 55 losses so far and i have tried carrying games in so many ways. I just lost a game as a pumped as hell Luna, heart, manta, satanic, shadow blade and i was 16 - 2, being three levels above the enemy teams highest player and i still lost that game. Enemy finally smartened up and poured _everything_ onto me and i died and that was gg since my teammates were less then stellar. Use bkb more so i can solo and entire team easier?
I have bad days, sure and am ocasionally the feeder but overall i have by far the best stats on my team trying to help out as much as possible but... the teammates just... no wards ofcourse, obviously, nobody ever buys dust either but i do for easy kills. The biggest thing is they engage in fights whenever they are outnumbered or in really bad spots and they all just die with me spamming "do not engage, run back". Anyone have any tips on actually winning low level games? It's not the lowest of the low levels but it's pretty low. Like people always mock me for going SB with gondar and swear battlefury is the way to go. That level of play. It would be helpful if you posted your dotabuff.com profile.
This would be helpfull, maybe someone will be willing to check the replays to see what is going wrong.
Also, if your team is as awfull as you described, then so is their team.
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You aren't low masters. If you think you are good, but don't play with competitive players, you suck and will remain sucking. The first step to learning dota is learning that you suck. Otherwise you become what is bad about dota - people with huge egos that blame their team for every little thing.
And everyone has bad people in their games. Perhaps there are less in very high, but don't expect to be in good games all the time even if you do get good games. You have to find teammates to queue with for that.
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On December 08 2012 10:26 unkkz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2012 09:32 DrPandaPhD wrote:On December 08 2012 08:32 unkkz wrote:
Ok seriously i have to ask, how do you get up in the ranks? I am a more then decent dota player, mid level i'd guess and i swear i cannot advance to higher play. There is no way i am at where i am supposed to be atm. I have 35 wins and 55 losses so far and i have tried carrying games in so many ways. I just lost a game as a pumped as hell Luna, heart, manta, satanic, shadow blade and i was 16 - 2, being three levels above the enemy teams highest player and i still lost that game. Enemy finally smartened up and poured _everything_ onto me and i died and that was gg since my teammates were less then stellar. Use bkb more so i can solo and entire team easier?
I have bad days, sure and am ocasionally the feeder but overall i have by far the best stats on my team trying to help out as much as possible but... the teammates just... no wards ofcourse, obviously, nobody ever buys dust either but i do for easy kills. The biggest thing is they engage in fights whenever they are outnumbered or in really bad spots and they all just die with me spamming "do not engage, run back". Anyone have any tips on actually winning low level games? It's not the lowest of the low levels but it's pretty low. Like people always mock me for going SB with gondar and swear battlefury is the way to go. That level of play. Honestly, not to sound rude but if you are stuck in midlevel you are "not a more than decent". I consider myself decent and my team has won vs somewhat known teams like Out of Tangos in tournaments. Similar to physics / math, the more you learn, the more you realize how much more there is to learn. Like all the mid-late game decisionmaking as all roles, teamfight positioning. Knowing what your role is supposed to do in a teamfight rather than just be "fighting". Being mid you have to know how to control the runes, how to never fail ganks because it would be inefficient. Knowing how to keep your momentum from a good start to continue snowballing. Or how to come back from a bad start to be relevant in the game. Knowing when to fight and defend towers, and when to splitpush and abandon them because you can't defend them. Also another "proof" that you have a lot to improve on is that you use your score as a "proof" that you are good. You have to realize that score is far from everything. Since you are facing weak opponents it's easier to get good score. Even though you lost a 16-2 game means you probably also have won a 0-10ish game. It goes both ways, you just have to be consistant. You can always try to improve your mechanical part of the game. Like never fail last-hits, because they are super important, having 20 more CS at 6min is gamechanging. You should also be checking minimap like very frequently. You should check the minimap constantly, like every 5seconds, throughout the game. You should always notice when there are movement towards you from the enemy team. Or if a level 6 tidehunter suddenly disappeared from another lane. Can't blame it on wards if he tp'd to the tower. Wards help but there are counters to them. It's when you are facing opponents who know what they are doing it's difficult. It's stupidly difficult to gank Scandal, trust me, I've tried T_T Sorry to say, but you are stuck there for a reason. Stop blaming it on your teammates and start to improve yourself. I've never met someone who is stuck at a certain skill and felt like they deserve to be higher. Keep practicing, you will become better. Dota has incredible depth, it just took me like 3000 matches to realize that. But most importantly, have fun. Simply by playing the game you will improve, cause most of the decision making you have to do only comes from experience. Good luck : ) Nice post but all that which you wrote, does not happen in my games. I don't "need to control the runes"(yet i do somewhat) because nobody goes for the runes dude, if they do it's by mere chance. I consider myself mid level and do fine when i queue with a friend who is in the "high" pool. He carries me a lil bit but other then that i do ok if i play tank/support. Solo is another thing. It's not me when my bottom lane has fed a nyx to 8 - 0 10 min into the game and he now has a rank 2 dagon and just walsing around two shotting everyone. It's not me when it takes the entire enemy team to kill me and my teammates don't engage. It's not me when i blink in on axe, taunt 3+ players with blade mail rolling and the rest of my team stands idly by our base tower even though i called blinking 5 seconds earlier. I played Slardar tonight and a caught two enemies in our woods by the hard creeps on green side, and i have two teammates in the mid lane. It takes the two heroes i caught close to 30 seconds to kill me(casters i had a hood and they kept ccing since i was actually killing them) and i don't drop until they have a third enter. My teammates never moved an inch from farming despite me pinging and typing like a madman. Those are my games dude. I can sure as hell improve a ton, but as to me getting to some decent games where my teams picks aren't: Void, drow, antimage and some other damage dealer it's really all about having the most god awfull teammates known to man. Hence i asked for the best faceroll hero there is so i can win games alone because that's what i have to do. To make it even clearer, people don't lasthit or deny in my games on either sides, rare occasions happen where they do but most often they just auto attack. That's where i am atm and i really really need to get out. Compared to the best players i am god awfull ofcourse, but on a public non pro gamer level, i am decent. Say Low masters if u wanna use SC2 terms.
Don't get me wrong, Dota 2 is a teamgame and the matchmaking is probably not always representative of a skilllevel, but there is no way you'd be stuck in a place where no one lasthits or denies when you are the Dota 2 equivalent of "low masters". Especially if your friend in the high pool carries you.
I'd say it relates approximately like this (in terms of percentage of players and based on this website)
Normal <-> Bronze/Silver/Gold/Platinum
High <-> Diamond
Very High <-> High Diamond/Masters/GM
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Heh or you could end up like me, work your way to very high, lose one game in very high suddenly the loss puts you in normal queue, just random and go troll builds from then on. :D
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On December 08 2012 10:26 unkkz wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2012 09:32 DrPandaPhD wrote:On December 08 2012 08:32 unkkz wrote:
Ok seriously i have to ask, how do you get up in the ranks? I am a more then decent dota player, mid level i'd guess and i swear i cannot advance to higher play. There is no way i am at where i am supposed to be atm. I have 35 wins and 55 losses so far and i have tried carrying games in so many ways. I just lost a game as a pumped as hell Luna, heart, manta, satanic, shadow blade and i was 16 - 2, being three levels above the enemy teams highest player and i still lost that game. Enemy finally smartened up and poured _everything_ onto me and i died and that was gg since my teammates were less then stellar. Use bkb more so i can solo and entire team easier?
I have bad days, sure and am ocasionally the feeder but overall i have by far the best stats on my team trying to help out as much as possible but... the teammates just... no wards ofcourse, obviously, nobody ever buys dust either but i do for easy kills. The biggest thing is they engage in fights whenever they are outnumbered or in really bad spots and they all just die with me spamming "do not engage, run back". Anyone have any tips on actually winning low level games? It's not the lowest of the low levels but it's pretty low. Like people always mock me for going SB with gondar and swear battlefury is the way to go. That level of play. Honestly, not to sound rude but if you are stuck in midlevel you are "not a more than decent". I consider myself decent and my team has won vs somewhat known teams like Out of Tangos in tournaments. Similar to physics / math, the more you learn, the more you realize how much more there is to learn. Like all the mid-late game decisionmaking as all roles, teamfight positioning. Knowing what your role is supposed to do in a teamfight rather than just be "fighting". Being mid you have to know how to control the runes, how to never fail ganks because it would be inefficient. Knowing how to keep your momentum from a good start to continue snowballing. Or how to come back from a bad start to be relevant in the game. Knowing when to fight and defend towers, and when to splitpush and abandon them because you can't defend them. Also another "proof" that you have a lot to improve on is that you use your score as a "proof" that you are good. You have to realize that score is far from everything. Since you are facing weak opponents it's easier to get good score. Even though you lost a 16-2 game means you probably also have won a 0-10ish game. It goes both ways, you just have to be consistant. You can always try to improve your mechanical part of the game. Like never fail last-hits, because they are super important, having 20 more CS at 6min is gamechanging. You should also be checking minimap like very frequently. You should check the minimap constantly, like every 5seconds, throughout the game. You should always notice when there are movement towards you from the enemy team. Or if a level 6 tidehunter suddenly disappeared from another lane. Can't blame it on wards if he tp'd to the tower. Wards help but there are counters to them. It's when you are facing opponents who know what they are doing it's difficult. It's stupidly difficult to gank Scandal, trust me, I've tried T_T Sorry to say, but you are stuck there for a reason. Stop blaming it on your teammates and start to improve yourself. I've never met someone who is stuck at a certain skill and felt like they deserve to be higher. Keep practicing, you will become better. Dota has incredible depth, it just took me like 3000 matches to realize that. But most importantly, have fun. Simply by playing the game you will improve, cause most of the decision making you have to do only comes from experience. Good luck : ) Nice post but all that which you wrote, does not happen in my games. I don't "need to control the runes"(yet i do somewhat) because nobody goes for the runes dude, if they do it's by mere chance. I consider myself mid level and do fine when i queue with a friend who is in the "high" pool. He carries me a lil bit but other then that i do ok if i play tank/support. Solo is another thing. It's not me when my bottom lane has fed a nyx to 8 - 0 10 min into the game and he now has a rank 2 dagon and just walsing around two shotting everyone. It's not me when it takes the entire enemy team to kill me and my teammates don't engage. It's not me when i blink in on axe, taunt 3+ players with blade mail rolling and the rest of my team stands idly by our base tower even though i called blinking 5 seconds earlier. I played Slardar tonight and a caught two enemies in our woods by the hard creeps on green side, and i have two teammates in the mid lane. It takes the two heroes i caught close to 30 seconds to kill me(casters i had a hood and they kept ccing since i was actually killing them) and i don't drop until they have a third enter. My teammates never moved an inch from farming despite me pinging and typing like a madman. Those are my games dude. I can sure as hell improve a ton, but as to me getting to some decent games where my teams picks aren't: Void, drow, antimage and some other damage dealer it's really all about having the most god awfull teammates known to man. Hence i asked for the best faceroll hero there is so i can win games alone because that's what i have to do. To make it even clearer, people don't lasthit or deny in my games on either sides, rare occasions happen where they do but most often they just auto attack. That's where i am atm and i really really need to get out. Compared to the best players i am god awfull ofcourse, but on a public non pro gamer level, i am decent. Say Low masters if u wanna use SC2 terms.
Just because they don't get the runes, doesn't mean you shouldn't get them. Captilizing on mistakes in a huge part of the game. If they are not last-hitting, doesn't mean you shouldn't. If your mechanics were good enough you would outfarm the entire enemy team and carry it 1v5. To compare your issues with people in SC2. It's like saying:
"Even if I know the banshee timing is at 8min, since my opponents are bad it will come at 12min. So I can't scout to see what they are doing."
Well yeah, then they are bad and you are not capitilizing on their mistakes enough. In SC2 rankings I would be like Mid-High Masters probably. Like quite far away from Grand Master players like Beesa and Boogaloo (solid players but still not pro level, plays a lot with Merlini on his stream). And then even further away from the top Grand Master like the pros are. And then even further away from the Chinese pros. The more I play the more I realize how much left I have to learn to become good.
Naniwa was a top player and went to Korea and half a year later he understood how risky he used to play. And how much more he understands the game etc.
If you look through your scores, how often are you actually dominating the game, but still losing? Objectively looking. Most of the times we just remember the good games, and forget about the bad ones. Just like, if you try to remember your childhood, you will always remember the sunny days, never the rainy ones.
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United States47024 Posts
On December 08 2012 09:18 FinestHour wrote:
idk everyone time i play dk it doesnt feel like he does damage fast enough to kill the team while the opposing carry kills the backline and you just die slowly but for certain
what do you like to get on dk
3 Branch->Bottle rush if mid, Stout+Branches+Regen->Soul Ring rush if sidelane
"Standard" - Treads+Wand->BKB->Mjollnir->situational stuff (Heart, MKB, Buriza, AC all possibilities after this)
Drums are good if your team has a rough opening and you need fighting power before you'd finish your BKB
Don't get Mjoll and get AC if you're not your team's 1st position carry--the AC helps their damage, and being able to farm fast is less of a priority when someone else on your team is also picking up a high amount of farm
Pipe is good, but don't get it in pubs--it's very push-centric and relies on a team playing around it.
Lothar's is good early with the right game tempo--it's weaker than BKB in teamfights, but lets you farm faster and have a better gank presence
Halberd is good if you really need the disarm/evasion against an enemy carry (generally only in pretty rough games)
In general, the enemy carry shouldn't just be able to rush your backline without getting stunned by you and focused down by your team. At level 10+ and your first few BKB uses, you should be more or less unkillable (magic immune +12 armor from max Dragon Blood + high base HP), so you should be positioned in the front where the enemy doesn't have the option to charge past you easily.
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Masters is probally Very High, maybe high "High", while Diamond should be most of High. From what you are saying, your games look like they are on Normal.
You talk a lot about how your team sucks. Your opponents never do? It's simple math. If you are ussually better than both your teammates and your enemies, you win more than you lose. You may lose some games, for whatever reason, but in general you just move up.
If your teammates always suck, but your opponents never do, either Valve is specifically screwing with you, you have an absurd amount of bad luck, which is highly unlikely, or you are just biased. It's easier to remember when your team suck than when your opponents suck.
First rule of moving up on the ranks: Stop blaming other people and look at what you can do to win more games.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
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that question a little while back about Ad-bulling a hero kinda is making me want to be a puck specialist >.>
NOOOOOO just started a match.
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On December 08 2012 10:50 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On December 08 2012 09:18 FinestHour wrote:
idk everyone time i play dk it doesnt feel like he does damage fast enough to kill the team while the opposing carry kills the backline and you just die slowly but for certain
what do you like to get on dk 3 Branch->Bottle rush if mid, Stout+Branches+Regen->Soul Ring rush if sidelane "Standard" - Treads+Wand->BKB->Mjollnir->situational stuff (Heart, MKB, Buriza, AC all possibilities after this) Drums are good if your team has a rough opening and you need fighting power before you'd finish your BKB Don't get Mjoll and get AC if you're not your team's 1st position carry--the AC helps their damage, and being able to farm fast is less of a priority when someone else on your team is also picking up a high amount of farm Pipe is good, but don't get it in pubs--it's very push-centric and relies on a team playing around it. Lothar's is good early with the right game tempo--it's weaker than BKB in teamfights, but lets you farm faster and have a better gank presence Halberd is good if you really need the disarm/evasion against an enemy carry (generally only in pretty rough games) In general, the enemy carry shouldn't just be able to rush your backline without getting stunned by you and focused down by your team. At level 10+ and your first few BKB uses, you should be more or less unkillable (magic immune + 12 armor + high base HP), so you should be positioned in the front where the enemy doesn't have the option to charge past you easily.
I think you underestimate how much randomness is going on in low level games. Things like actual teamfights where 10 players are involved are something special, not something you should expect 
"Focussing down" is unheard of!
@Topic
Just look at your own mistakes and blame every loss on yourself, not on your teammates. You'll be out of the low regions in no time if you actually try to improve.
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It's so weird seeing Dota players with TL icons. Weird and awesome. Don't stop believing.
We need some Dota 2 overlays as well.
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Lalalaland34505 Posts
ANOTHER ONE BITES THE DUST
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Lalalaland34505 Posts
Oh he's playing with warbler, is this a stack or just pub MM?
edit: and risingstar, going to assume stack then.
holy crap did i step into a 70s/80s radio station, i love this <3
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United States47024 Posts
On December 08 2012 10:55 Bommes wrote:
"Focussing down" is unheard of!
In low level games, people will try to kill the closest target in range without thinking about who else to use their skills on.
This means if you run in front as Dragon Knight, they will try to kill you, but at the point where you have BKB+rank 4 Dragon Blood, that's basically a fruitless effort.
If their team's carry tries to kill your back-line, then he will be the only person in range for your team to kill. Pubs don't ignore the person right next to them to run half a screen away to hit someone else. They either mindlessly run from the guy standing next to them, or they try to kill him, and you using a stun on that guy is a pretty good signal for people to try and kill him.
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Netherlands45349 Posts
On December 08 2012 10:57 Firebolt145 wrote:ANOTHER ONE BITES THE DUST
BEHIND BLUE EYES FROM THE WHO
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Oh god this epic music. Why have I never watched his stream? Did he even stream?
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Lalalaland34505 Posts
I dunno, first time I've ever seen it though.
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Lalalaland34505 Posts
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On December 08 2012 11:03 Firebolt145 wrote:
I dunno, first time I've ever seen it though.
Watching Ixmike over Dendi? And why are you still awake? : p
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EPT
