On December 08 2012 07:53 Enzymatic wrote: Random thought.. But does anyone think that dota 2 will surpass sc2 on TeamLiquid in terms of popularity. For the longest time TL was all about starcraft.. But does anyone think that might switch to dota?
if sc2 keeps going the way it is, yes
There was a poll recently in the SC2 forums and something like <20% still played SC2 at least 1 game a day, and the rest only watched. Active players, dota2 might already be higher than SC2. I believe if you took the same poll here, the MAJORITY of us that post in the dota subsection play at least 1 game a day.
That is what is unique about SC. People enjoy watching it that have long quit the game. I'm not sure if dota has that kind of 'fan' retention. I think we will surpass sc2 with active players posting on the boards, but may never pass sc2 as active participants in forum discussion. Viewership wise it seems dota2/SC2 are still close, Dota2 having more if a good match is going on, SC2 has more if a popular player is deep in a tournament. Individual player streams it seems dota2 has already taken over. Ppy, Singsing, hell even as I post this DeMoN is crushing everyone except IdrA right now.
In the end it shouldn't really matter. Both communities will continue to grow and stabalize, grow, stabilize etc., and they will either be the #2 or #3 most popular esport. Neither will be passing LoL for some time (unfortunately) so really dota/sc are just battling for 2nd/3rd.
On December 08 2012 07:53 Enzymatic wrote: Random thought.. But does anyone think that dota 2 will surpass sc2 on TeamLiquid in terms of popularity. For the longest time TL was all about starcraft.. But does anyone think that might switch to dota?
if sc2 keeps going the way it is, yes
There was a poll recently in the SC2 forums and something like <20% still played SC2 at least 1 game a day, and the rest only watched. Active players, dota2 might already be higher than SC2. I believe if you took the same poll here, the MAJORITY of us that post in the dota subsection play at least 1 game a day.
That is what is unique about SC. People enjoy watching it that have long quit the game. I'm not sure if dota has that kind of 'fan' retention. I think we will surpass sc2 with active players posting on the boards, but may never pass sc2 as active participants in forum discussion. Viewership wise it seems dota2/SC2 are still close, Dota2 having more if a good match is going on, SC2 has more if a popular player is deep in a tournament. Individual player streams it seems dota2 has already taken over. Ppy, Singsing, hell even as I post this DeMoN is crushing everyone except IdrA right now.
In the end it shouldn't really matter. Both communities will continue to grow and stabalize, grow, stabilize etc., and they will either be the #2 or #3 most popular esport. Neither will be passing LoL for some time (unfortunately) so really dota/sc are just battling for 2nd/3rd.
I'll try to explain why there are so many people not playing, but just watching games in that poll..
The problem with sc2 that makes it a difficult game to retain all those players laddering and actively playing.. Is that people eventually hit their skill ceiling, or that ceiling where they can't invest any more time into the game that is required in order to hit that next level of play; because of work/school/family, etc. And when you hit that skill ceiling, the game is no longer "fun" really. The fun part of sc2 is the journey and progression through all of the leagues (the positive feedback from it). Once you can't keep that up, there's not a whole lot left to do but throw in the towel in regards to laddering, and then just watch games from there.
I hit top 25 masters, and realized I would have to throw a ton of time each day to make it into top 8.. Which I couldn't do as I am a post-secondary student.
Dota however, doesn't have that sort of "crash" type effect where you cap out and then its like "well, I guess thats it for that..". And its also a lot more enjoyable. That's why dota will have a far greater playerbase and in my opinion, compete in terms of competitve, and non-competitive popularity in the not-too-distant future on TL (with sc2).
Ok seriously i have to ask, how do you get up in the ranks? I am a more then decent dota player, mid level i'd guess and i swear i cannot advance to higher play. There is no way i am at where i am supposed to be atm. I have 35 wins and 55 losses so far and i have tried carrying games in so many ways. I just lost a game as a pumped as hell Luna, heart, manta, satanic, shadow blade and i was 16 - 2, being three levels above the enemy teams highest player and i still lost that game. Enemy finally smartened up and poured _everything_ onto me and i died and that was gg since my teammates were less then stellar. Use bkb more so i can solo and entire team easier?
I have bad days, sure and am ocasionally the feeder but overall i have by far the best stats on my team trying to help out as much as possible but... the teammates just... no wards ofcourse, obviously, nobody ever buys dust either but i do for easy kills. The biggest thing is they engage in fights whenever they are outnumbered or in really bad spots and they all just die with me spamming "do not engage, run back". Anyone have any tips on actually winning low level games? It's not the lowest of the low levels but it's pretty low. Like people always mock me for going SB with gondar and swear battlefury is the way to go. That level of play.
On December 08 2012 08:32 unkkz wrote: Ok seriously i have to ask, how do you get up in the ranks? I am a more then decent dota player, mid level i'd guess and i swear i cannot advance to higher play. There is no way i am at where i am supposed to be atm. I have 35 wins and 55 losses so far and i have tried carrying games in so many ways. I just lost a game as a pumped as hell Luna, heart, manta, satanic, shadow blade and i was 16 - 2, being three levels above the enemy teams highest player and i still lost that game. Enemy finally smartened up and poured _everything_ onto me and i died and that was gg since my teammates were less then stellar. Use bkb more so i can solo and entire team easier?
I have bad days, sure and am ocasionally the feeder but overall i have by far the best stats on my team trying to help out as much as possible but... the teammates just... no wards ofcourse, obviously, nobody ever buys dust either but i do for easy kills. The biggest thing is they engage in fights whenever they are outnumbered or in really bad spots and they all just die with me spamming "do not engage, run back". Anyone have any tips on actually winning low level games? It's not the lowest of the low levels but it's pretty low. Like people always mock me for going SB with gondar and swear battlefury is the way to go. That level of play.
Play mid heroes
Play carries that do not rely on supports to get farm (best i've found is lone druid, high damage range might work like drow)
On December 08 2012 08:32 unkkz wrote: Ok seriously i have to ask, how do you get up in the ranks? I am a more then decent dota player, mid level i'd guess and i swear i cannot advance to higher play. There is no way i am at where i am supposed to be atm. I have 35 wins and 55 losses so far and i have tried carrying games in so many ways. I just lost a game as a pumped as hell Luna, heart, manta, satanic, shadow blade and i was 16 - 2, being three levels above the enemy teams highest player and i still lost that game. Enemy finally smartened up and poured _everything_ onto me and i died and that was gg since my teammates were less then stellar. Use bkb more so i can solo and entire team easier?
I have bad days, sure and am ocasionally the feeder but overall i have by far the best stats on my team trying to help out as much as possible but... the teammates just... no wards ofcourse, obviously, nobody ever buys dust either but i do for easy kills. The biggest thing is they engage in fights whenever they are outnumbered or in really bad spots and they all just die with me spamming "do not engage, run back". Anyone have any tips on actually winning low level games? It's not the lowest of the low levels but it's pretty low. Like people always mock me for going SB with gondar and swear battlefury is the way to go. That level of play.
Play mid heroes
Play carries that do not rely on supports to get farm (best i've found is lone druid, high damage range might work like drow)
Now that you mention it i actually have the highest winrate as drow of all the picks i´ve had by far, dunno why i didnt see that.
Drow Natures prophet Riki (seriously lol) Bounty hunter Sniper (if you can play safe)
Razor and bloodseeker can net you a ton of kills if you want that. Sven and Dragon knight are haaaaaaaaaaaaaaard carries and if you get them up you can solo the entire enemy team.
is there a way to disable the top bar? the one that shows buttons on the top left. when i try to move up while moving the screen...like i actually do in sc...i dont move...because the bar is unclickable.
On December 08 2012 09:05 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote: Easy mode is:
Drow Natures prophet Riki (seriously lol) Bounty hunter Sniper (if you can play safe)
Razor and bloodseeker can net you a ton of kills if you want that. Sven and Dragon knight are haaaaaaaaaaaaaaard carries and if you get them up you can solo the entire enemy team.
BH is easy mode ? Dont think so.. invisible dont make him easy to play , he is really squishy . You if fail in early game , its gg for you. I also dont agree with DK "hard carry" , he is superb tank and pusher.. , but killing whole team alone ? dont be silly.. , one two cc and he is dead ... bkb dont last foverer
On December 08 2012 08:32 unkkz wrote: Ok seriously i have to ask, how do you get up in the ranks? I am a more then decent dota player, mid level i'd guess and i swear i cannot advance to higher play. There is no way i am at where i am supposed to be atm. I have 35 wins and 55 losses so far and i have tried carrying games in so many ways. I just lost a game as a pumped as hell Luna, heart, manta, satanic, shadow blade and i was 16 - 2, being three levels above the enemy teams highest player and i still lost that game. Enemy finally smartened up and poured _everything_ onto me and i died and that was gg since my teammates were less then stellar. Use bkb more so i can solo and entire team easier?
I have bad days, sure and am ocasionally the feeder but overall i have by far the best stats on my team trying to help out as much as possible but... the teammates just... no wards ofcourse, obviously, nobody ever buys dust either but i do for easy kills. The biggest thing is they engage in fights whenever they are outnumbered or in really bad spots and they all just die with me spamming "do not engage, run back". Anyone have any tips on actually winning low level games? It's not the lowest of the low levels but it's pretty low. Like people always mock me for going SB with gondar and swear battlefury is the way to go. That level of play.
Moving up the ranks without Q'ing with at least 2 other good people regularly is a very tough task.
idk everyone time i play dk it doesnt feel like he does damage fast enough to kill the team while the opposing carry kills the backline and you just die slowly but for certain
Man, looking at how teams are shaping up, it feels like TI3 needs to have more teams than 16. I think its safe to say that half of that number is already known - iG, LGD.cn, DK, Orange, EG, Navi. And those waiting on the wings like the rest of the chinese teams (assuming to get back to half their shape pre-ti2), LGD.int, Empire, dignitas, MUFC, FntcRC.EU, nth and now TL.net.
Really looking forward to see how things play out and hoping for TI3 to be even better than the last.
On December 08 2012 09:20 Crissaegrim wrote: Man, looking at how teams are shaping up, it feels like TI3 needs to have more teams than 16. I think its safe to say that half of that number is already known - iG, LGD.cn, DK, Orange, EG, Navi. And those waiting on the wings like the rest of the chinese teams (assuming to get back to half their shape pre-ti2), LGD.int, Empire, dignitas, MUFC, FntcRC.EU, nth and now TL.net.
Really looking forward to see how things play out and hoping for TI3 to be even better than the last.
Either TI3 takes in more teams or there will be a bigger TI3 Qualifier tourney this time!
On December 08 2012 08:32 unkkz wrote: Ok seriously i have to ask, how do you get up in the ranks? I am a more then decent dota player, mid level i'd guess and i swear i cannot advance to higher play. There is no way i am at where i am supposed to be atm. I have 35 wins and 55 losses so far and i have tried carrying games in so many ways. I just lost a game as a pumped as hell Luna, heart, manta, satanic, shadow blade and i was 16 - 2, being three levels above the enemy teams highest player and i still lost that game. Enemy finally smartened up and poured _everything_ onto me and i died and that was gg since my teammates were less then stellar. Use bkb more so i can solo and entire team easier?
I have bad days, sure and am ocasionally the feeder but overall i have by far the best stats on my team trying to help out as much as possible but... the teammates just... no wards ofcourse, obviously, nobody ever buys dust either but i do for easy kills. The biggest thing is they engage in fights whenever they are outnumbered or in really bad spots and they all just die with me spamming "do not engage, run back". Anyone have any tips on actually winning low level games? It's not the lowest of the low levels but it's pretty low. Like people always mock me for going SB with gondar and swear battlefury is the way to go. That level of play.
Honestly, not to sound rude but if you are stuck in midlevel you are "not a more than decent". I consider myself decent and my team has won vs somewhat known teams like Out of Tangos in tournaments. Similar to physics / math, the more you learn, the more you realize how much more there is to learn. Like all the mid-late game decisionmaking as all roles, teamfight positioning. Knowing what your role is supposed to do in a teamfight rather than just be "fighting". Being mid you have to know how to control the runes, how to never fail ganks because it would be inefficient. Knowing how to keep your momentum from a good start to continue snowballing. Or how to come back from a bad start to be relevant in the game. Knowing when to fight and defend towers, and when to splitpush and abandon them because you can't defend them.
Also another "proof" that you have a lot to improve on is that you use your score as a "proof" that you are good. You have to realize that score is far from everything. Since you are facing weak opponents it's easier to get good score. Even though you lost a 16-2 game means you probably also have won a 0-10ish game. It goes both ways, you just have to be consistant.
You can always try to improve your mechanical part of the game. Like never fail last-hits, because they are super important, having 20 more CS at 6min is gamechanging. You should also be checking minimap like very frequently. You should check the minimap constantly, like every 5seconds, throughout the game. You should always notice when there are movement towards you from the enemy team. Or if a level 6 tidehunter suddenly disappeared from another lane. Can't blame it on wards if he tp'd to the tower. Wards help but there are counters to them.
It's when you are facing opponents who know what they are doing it's difficult. It's stupidly difficult to gank Scandal, trust me, I've tried T_T
Sorry to say, but you are stuck there for a reason. Stop blaming it on your teammates and start to improve yourself. I've never met someone who is stuck at a certain skill and felt like they deserve to be higher. Keep practicing, you will become better. Dota has incredible depth, it just took me like 3000 matches to realize that. But most importantly, have fun. Simply by playing the game you will improve, cause most of the decision making you have to do only comes from experience.
On December 08 2012 08:32 unkkz wrote: Ok seriously i have to ask, how do you get up in the ranks? I am a more then decent dota player, mid level i'd guess and i swear i cannot advance to higher play. There is no way i am at where i am supposed to be atm. I have 35 wins and 55 losses so far and i have tried carrying games in so many ways. I just lost a game as a pumped as hell Luna, heart, manta, satanic, shadow blade and i was 16 - 2, being three levels above the enemy teams highest player and i still lost that game. Enemy finally smartened up and poured _everything_ onto me and i died and that was gg since my teammates were less then stellar. Use bkb more so i can solo and entire team easier?
I have bad days, sure and am ocasionally the feeder but overall i have by far the best stats on my team trying to help out as much as possible but... the teammates just... no wards ofcourse, obviously, nobody ever buys dust either but i do for easy kills. The biggest thing is they engage in fights whenever they are outnumbered or in really bad spots and they all just die with me spamming "do not engage, run back". Anyone have any tips on actually winning low level games? It's not the lowest of the low levels but it's pretty low. Like people always mock me for going SB with gondar and swear battlefury is the way to go. That level of play.
It would be helpful if you posted your dotabuff.com profile.
On December 08 2012 08:01 Sn0_Man wrote: FWIW, I predict that TC will settle into carry role, Korok will play mid consistently except with a very few heroes, and Bulba will inhabit the offlane. Really don't expect to see much TC solo mid, but Bulba will do it occasionally.
Those were my thoughts as well. IMO, TC is much more consistent as a carry (and can play more heroes at a higher level). Korok is still a phenomenal mid player who also carries a lot, but I'd much prefer him to stay as a 2 and let TC do his thing.
I just randomed chen and remembered a good old pub chen build. Dagon 5 chen. :D i embellished tht with a couple "new" items, veil and eblade ^^. Tooo fun.
On December 08 2012 08:32 unkkz wrote: Ok seriously i have to ask, how do you get up in the ranks? I am a more then decent dota player, mid level i'd guess and i swear i cannot advance to higher play. There is no way i am at where i am supposed to be atm. I have 35 wins and 55 losses so far and i have tried carrying games in so many ways. I just lost a game as a pumped as hell Luna, heart, manta, satanic, shadow blade and i was 16 - 2, being three levels above the enemy teams highest player and i still lost that game. Enemy finally smartened up and poured _everything_ onto me and i died and that was gg since my teammates were less then stellar. Use bkb more so i can solo and entire team easier?
I have bad days, sure and am ocasionally the feeder but overall i have by far the best stats on my team trying to help out as much as possible but... the teammates just... no wards ofcourse, obviously, nobody ever buys dust either but i do for easy kills. The biggest thing is they engage in fights whenever they are outnumbered or in really bad spots and they all just die with me spamming "do not engage, run back". Anyone have any tips on actually winning low level games? It's not the lowest of the low levels but it's pretty low. Like people always mock me for going SB with gondar and swear battlefury is the way to go. That level of play.
Honestly, not to sound rude but if you are stuck in midlevel you are "not a more than decent". I consider myself decent and my team has won vs somewhat known teams like Out of Tangos in tournaments. Similar to physics / math, the more you learn, the more you realize how much more there is to learn. Like all the mid-late game decisionmaking as all roles, teamfight positioning. Knowing what your role is supposed to do in a teamfight rather than just be "fighting". Being mid you have to know how to control the runes, how to never fail ganks because it would be inefficient. Knowing how to keep your momentum from a good start to continue snowballing. Or how to come back from a bad start to be relevant in the game. Knowing when to fight and defend towers, and when to splitpush and abandon them because you can't defend them.
Also another "proof" that you have a lot to improve on is that you use your score as a "proof" that you are good. You have to realize that score is far from everything. Since you are facing weak opponents it's easier to get good score. Even though you lost a 16-2 game means you probably also have won a 0-10ish game. It goes both ways, you just have to be consistant.
You can always try to improve your mechanical part of the game. Like never fail last-hits, because they are super important, having 20 more CS at 6min is gamechanging. You should also be checking minimap like very frequently. You should check the minimap constantly, like every 5seconds, throughout the game. You should always notice when there are movement towards you from the enemy team. Or if a level 6 tidehunter suddenly disappeared from another lane. Can't blame it on wards if he tp'd to the tower. Wards help but there are counters to them.
It's when you are facing opponents who know what they are doing it's difficult. It's stupidly difficult to gank Scandal, trust me, I've tried T_T
Sorry to say, but you are stuck there for a reason. Stop blaming it on your teammates and start to improve yourself. I've never met someone who is stuck at a certain skill and felt like they deserve to be higher. Keep practicing, you will become better. Dota has incredible depth, it just took me like 3000 matches to realize that. But most importantly, have fun. Simply by playing the game you will improve, cause most of the decision making you have to do only comes from experience.
Good luck : )
Nice post but all that which you wrote, does not happen in my games. I don't "need to control the runes"(yet i do somewhat) because nobody goes for the runes dude, if they do it's by mere chance. I consider myself mid level and do fine when i queue with a friend who is in the "high" pool. He carries me a lil bit but other then that i do ok if i play tank/support.
Solo is another thing. It's not me when my bottom lane has fed a nyx to 8 - 0 10 min into the game and he now has a rank 2 dagon and just walsing around two shotting everyone. It's not me when it takes the entire enemy team to kill me and my teammates don't engage. It's not me when i blink in on axe, taunt 3+ players with blade mail rolling and the rest of my team stands idly by our base tower even though i called blinking 5 seconds earlier.
I played Slardar tonight and a caught two enemies in our woods by the hard creeps on green side, and i have two teammates in the mid lane. It takes the two heroes i caught close to 30 seconds to kill me(casters i had a hood and they kept ccing since i was actually killing them) and i don't drop until they have a third enter. My teammates never moved an inch from farming despite me pinging and typing like a madman.
Those are my games dude. I can sure as hell improve a ton, but as to me getting to some decent games where my teams picks aren't: Void, drow, antimage and some other damage dealer it's really all about having the most god awfull teammates known to man. Hence i asked for the best faceroll hero there is so i can win games alone because that's what i have to do.
To make it even clearer, people don't lasthit or deny in my games on either sides, rare occasions happen where they do but most often they just auto attack. That's where i am atm and i really really need to get out.
Compared to the best players i am god awfull ofcourse, but on a public non pro gamer level, i am decent. Say Low masters if u wanna use SC2 terms.
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/SDjuE.png)
