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General Discussion - Page 1598

Forum Index > Dota 2 General
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IRC chatter should remain in IRC - http://webchat.quakenet.org/?channels=tl.dota2

Posts that relate to topics with their own thread, such as in News, Tournaments or Strategy should go in those threads.
trinxified
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada7774 Posts
December 05 2012 04:30 GMT
#31941
On December 05 2012 13:21 Kupon3ss wrote:
iG usually plays sven 4th position, while its a strong hero overall and its stun and warcry are very suited for iG's "facerush style", the Chinese do not particularly value it as a hard carry


Sven and Magnus can do both. Support and carry far too well.
FinestHour
Profile Joined August 2010
United States18466 Posts
December 05 2012 04:40 GMT
#31942
a hero like that that who can do every role and do it incredibly well should be looked at a little bit closer, but ideally no knee jerk big changes
thug life.                                                       MVP/ex-
tpmraven
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
United States833 Posts
December 05 2012 05:10 GMT
#31943
I dont understand how people think magnus ulti is balanced?

Its better then black hole in almost every way.
(⌐■_■) Like a boss
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-05 05:16:41
December 05 2012 05:15 GMT
#31944
Reverse polarity is weird. It's strong but harder to aim, and easier to counter-play preemptively. it's also worse until level 16.
LAN-f34r
Profile Joined December 2010
New Zealand2099 Posts
December 05 2012 05:18 GMT
#31945
Bigger radius and stronger level 1/2 is nothing to snuff at. It could also be argued that enigma is stronger in other ways (faster farming at the start, more reliable stun).
The only barrier to truth is the presumption that you already have it. It's through our pane (pain) we window (win though).
rabidch
Profile Joined January 2010
United States20289 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-05 05:21:22
December 05 2012 05:19 GMT
#31946
On December 05 2012 14:10 tpmraven wrote:
I dont understand how people think magnus ulti is balanced?

Its better then black hole in almost every way.

used to be balanced out by the fact that there werent any good places to put magnus in a lane (who needs levels for that ultimate) compared to enigma, who is one of the best junglers in the game, and the fact that skewer was a garbage spell some time ago, compared to enigma who has a pretty good disable and a pretty good pushing spell. but the last few patches and dota2 mechanics have completely changed how magnus is played since skewer gives him a good escape ability

tldr
magnus used to be a one trick magnataur, now hes a one-two-knockout offlaner
LiquidDota StaffOnly a true king can play the King.
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
December 05 2012 05:21 GMT
#31947
Enigma is pretty much guaranteed a level 6 at a certain time, magnus is not. which is a big deal for planned pushes.
Itsmedudeman
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States19229 Posts
December 05 2012 05:28 GMT
#31948
On December 05 2012 13:30 trinxified wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 05 2012 13:21 Kupon3ss wrote:
iG usually plays sven 4th position, while its a strong hero overall and its stun and warcry are very suited for iG's "facerush style", the Chinese do not particularly value it as a hard carry


Sven and Magnus can do both. Support and carry far too well.

Huh? Magnus can semi carry but relies on others to carry the late game. And I think Devil Mice and some other teams showed that naix can be a pretty strong counter to Sven. NTH also lost horribly with a farmed sven to VP I think.
ch33psh33p
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
7650 Posts
December 05 2012 05:35 GMT
#31949
On December 05 2012 14:21 PrinceXizor wrote:
Enigma is pretty much guaranteed a level 6 at a certain time, magnus is not. which is a big deal for planned pushes.


Only if you choose not to run Magnus solo-mid.

Magnus thrives in the solo-mid role against almost any matchup, while his offlane potential is above-average at best.
secret - never again
rabidch
Profile Joined January 2010
United States20289 Posts
December 05 2012 05:47 GMT
#31950
On December 05 2012 14:35 ch33psh33p wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 05 2012 14:21 PrinceXizor wrote:
Enigma is pretty much guaranteed a level 6 at a certain time, magnus is not. which is a big deal for planned pushes.


Only if you choose not to run Magnus solo-mid.

Magnus thrives in the solo-mid role against almost any matchup, while his offlane potential is above-average at best.

He has problems with most strong mids, namely TA and QoP, but more importantly that also means that you choose to run him mid instead of another hero who would not do well in a non-mid early game.


here's a related story from a post i remember a year ago

+ Show Spoiler +
On November 02 2011 09:48 x6.Chouji wrote:
Great Guide =), personally I have never gotten manta-style on Anti-mage but it is something I should start doing >_<

I used to play quite a bit of competitive DoTa in NA with CheckSix Gaming. While I have retired since, many of my old teammates have branched out into LoL, HoN and DoTa 2 (Such as EGYoda, EGDemon and EGSilent-Merc)

My favorite hero of all times is Magnataur.

I used to use 2 builds for him. One specifically for Leagues Games and Fun Games and the other specifically for Tournaments and Matches.

Starting Items (Always) - Gauntlets of Strength, Tangoes, Potion, Clarity Potion, Circlet

For "Fun" Build:
Bottle
Power Treads
Blink Dagger
Battlefury
Mask of Madness
Burize
(Sell Bottle for Assault Cuirass)
(Sell Power Treads for Boots of Teleportation)

This is strictly a pub stomp build. Magnataur was not built to be the best carry in the game (he has no scaling damage). But against lesser players and great early game farm/levels he is quite viable to be the funnest carry ever. Aggressively blinking into groups of 3-5 enemy heroes (being careful to get all stun/silence heroes) and using "Reverse Polarity" and turning on your "Mask of Madness" crushing heroes and creeps with 100% cleave (with a Battle Fury) could get you rampage if you were lucky. Wave was a great skill for early game harass and farm (in use with a Bottle). His key problem is that his ultimate has a very very long cooldown and if he does not initiate properly he can be almost useless, and die very easily.

For "Serious" Build:

His only real purpose in professional games (and sadly he was not very popular in professional DoTa) was his AoE stun. If he could get 3-5 heroes with a well timed and placed blink, he could turn the tide of any team battle. Unfortunately he was not a great laner and only a defensive solo at best (with even skill levels)

Bottle
Power Treads
Blink Dagger
Assault Cuirass
Heart of Tarrasque
Shivas

One very funny and not so funny game I played with Magnataur was versus the old Scythe (known as Zenith) and was unfortunately elected to solo against Yamateh. Yes THE Yamateh. And it was at 5 in the morning (For MyM PRide #7 or 8?)

He played PoTm at mid and it was the hardest and most frustrating lane ever. I ended up begging for a gank. He went "Beyond Godlike" that game but because we had very good team battle AoE heroes ( I don't recall the specifics) we were able to keep up somewhat, although always pressured. We were both farming up throughout the game and near the 50 minute mark we knew one battle would decide the game. We roamed as five into their forest and saw the key moment as all five of their heroes were hugging their tower in a very very close proximity and they had no vision of us. I licked my chops in anticipation and got into range of blink. My captain yelled "GOGOGOGO" into ventrillo and I clicked the ground shift+Blink Dagger+Reverse Polarity...and...and...wtfMATE?I had ulted the ground without blinking. I had ulted nothing. My teammates were not aware. An arrow hit my face. One by one we were all hunted down, without My (Magnataur's) ultimate we had no chance. A quick gg and we lost the series 1-2. Later after the adrenaline I quickly realized that their "Zeus" used his ultimate in a very skillful and probably lucky timing and disabled my blink. We were crushed.

I still love you Magnataur. There is no better feeling than Reverse Polarity'ing five heroes and getting a Rampage. None.

Farewell

LiquidDota StaffOnly a true king can play the King.
Blitzkrieg0
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States13132 Posts
December 05 2012 05:55 GMT
#31951
On December 05 2012 14:15 PrinceXizor wrote:
Reverse polarity is weird. It's strong but harder to aim, and easier to counter-play preemptively. it's also worse until level 16.


Instant versus channeled is very dangerous to compare simply by looking at numbers.
I'll always be your shadow and veil your eyes from states of ain soph aur.
PrinceXizor
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States17713 Posts
December 05 2012 05:56 GMT
#31952
not to mention being in mid opens you to ganks far more than being in the jungle.
trinxified
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada7774 Posts
December 05 2012 05:57 GMT
#31953
On December 05 2012 14:28 Itsmedudeman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 05 2012 13:30 trinxified wrote:
On December 05 2012 13:21 Kupon3ss wrote:
iG usually plays sven 4th position, while its a strong hero overall and its stun and warcry are very suited for iG's "facerush style", the Chinese do not particularly value it as a hard carry


Sven and Magnus can do both. Support and carry far too well.

Huh? Magnus can semi carry but relies on others to carry the late game. And I think Devil Mice and some other teams showed that naix can be a pretty strong counter to Sven. NTH also lost horribly with a farmed sven to VP I think.


Empower turns him to a carry pretty easily... Especially how his other skills have synergy with it.
Prime`Rib
Profile Joined September 2010
United States613 Posts
December 05 2012 06:19 GMT
#31954
fucking Magmus is so imba.

1. His mana management is doable because most of his skills are below 100 mana. An AoE spells with 90 mana? Wtf.

2. His ultimate goes passed BKB with 0 channeling.

Stop comparing Magmus to Engima. I am so sure Magmus can farm just as fast Engima with bottle.
... funerals are insane, the chicks are so horny, its not even fair, its like fishing with dynamite ...
RuskiPanda
Profile Joined December 2011
United States2906 Posts
December 05 2012 06:55 GMT
#31955
Its not about how fast they farm but safety. You can give magnus a bottle but unless you bottle-crow you'll never get runes against popular mids like QoP or TA. Without that regen you'll just be stuck picking off cs under tower while Enigma is merrily eidoloning his way to mek/blink.
G3CKO
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
Canada1430 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-05 07:10:17
December 05 2012 07:09 GMT
#31956
Go listen to the newest episode of talkDota. Synd and Puppey gave some good insight into Sven, Mag, Drow, Centaur, and all the "overpowered" heroes right now. I wouldn't agree with everything they said but it's a good listen.
┌⋉⊳∀⊲) ☆ If your soul has not truly given up, then you can hear the sound that races through the end of the world.
NeonFlare
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
Finland1307 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-12-05 07:36:32
December 05 2012 07:35 GMT
#31957
On December 05 2012 15:19 Prime`Rib wrote:
fucking Magmus is so imba.

1. His mana management is doable because most of his skills are below 100 mana. An AoE spells with 90 mana? Wtf.

2. His ultimate goes passed BKB with 0 channeling.

Stop comparing Magmus to Engima. I am so sure Magmus can farm just as fast Engima with bottle.


Edit: oops :D

[image loading]
Testuser
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
6469 Posts
December 05 2012 08:19 GMT
#31958
On December 05 2012 08:17 Firebolt145 wrote:
Although Empower is great and all, I don't see it as the reason why Magnus is so retardedly good right now. The primary focus has got to be on Skewer with possibly a little change to Shockwave's cd/range or his ult's cd. IMO, at least.

Puppet did, as I said, compare several abilities to items. If Empower'd been an item, he estimated it'd be around 6-7k, and I do agree that it's too strong all things considered.
https://soundcloud.com/papercranesdk
Dead9
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States4725 Posts
December 05 2012 08:29 GMT
#31959
if hex was an item it'd be worth like 6k
you can't really put gold costs to skills
Testuser
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
6469 Posts
December 05 2012 09:11 GMT
#31960
On December 05 2012 17:29 Dead9 wrote:
if hex was an item it'd be worth like 6k
you can't really put gold costs to skills

They actually brought this up.

The item in itself gives a lot more than a hex:
+10 str
+10 agi
+35 int
+150% manaregen

So, there's a lot more than just a hex. Also, the item ability has a bigger range (800 compared to 500) - hence Puppey argued that it'd be at most a 2 point something k item.

Although nothing of what he said is set in stone, I think there's a great deal of truth behind it.
He argued that Empower giving 50% damage and 50% cleave would be worth 6-7k (I think), compared to BF which gives a flat +65 damage and 35% cleave. Empower also frees up a slot and can be cast at three heroes simultaneously.

Again, he might've been raging a bit, and it's not clear cut numbers, but I do think he has a valid point.
https://soundcloud.com/papercranesdk
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