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rwrzr
United States1980 Posts
On December 05 2012 11:42 TheYango wrote: There's always like 3-5 broken heroes every version. DotA's broken if there aren't any broken heroes. Everything needs buffs. | ||
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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
On December 05 2012 11:42 TheYango wrote: There's always like 3-5 broken heroes every version. DotA's broken if there aren't any broken heroes. The goal is to have every hero be broken. | ||
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Nilrem
United States3684 Posts
On December 05 2012 11:51 Itsmedudeman wrote: The goal is to have every hero be broken. Based off of Drow's recent buff, that seems to be the logic. | ||
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Bommes
Germany1226 Posts
On December 05 2012 11:42 TheYango wrote: There's always like 3-5 broken heroes every version. DotA's broken if there aren't any broken heroes. Previous versions were broken in different ways though. The last patch really changed a lot of stuff at once for certain heroes (Magnus, Sven, Batrider) and made them really op and boring to watch and annoying to teamplay against. On the other hand it also nerfed a lot of stuff at once for some heroes (like Morphling). I think the main problem is that there is no stable tournament version in Dota 2, so all the shit patches that should never be used in tournaments have to be played now because there is no way to access the old patches. Also the heroes that are not in -cm yet because they got major changes (Drow, Cent, Silencer) seem for the most part really broken, at least Drow and Cent. Pit Lord is not in yet but he also seems really broken, as well as Phoenix. That's not a good trend. | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On December 05 2012 11:54 Bommes wrote: Previous versions were broken in different ways though. The last patch really changed a lot of stuff at once for certain heroes (Magnus, Sven, Batrider) and made them really op and boring to watch and annoying to teamplay against. On the other hand it also nerfed a lot of stuff at once for some heroes (like Morphling). You're going to have to explain to me how Magnus/Sven/Batrider are more boring than Lycan or Naga. On December 05 2012 11:54 Bommes wrote: I think the main problem is that there is no stable tournament version in Dota 2, so all the shit patches that should never be used in tournaments have to be played now because there is no way to access the old patches. Except Chinese/SEA DotA 1 tournaments have been immediately jumping on the new versions for a long time now. The stable/newest split hasn't been relevant for quite a long time even in DotA 1. | ||
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rabidch
United States20289 Posts
On December 05 2012 11:38 PrinceXizor wrote: gonna go with puppey being vastly above all the others. :D not Firebolt145? tsk tsk | ||
Kipsate
Netherlands45349 Posts
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
On December 05 2012 12:12 Kipsate wrote: I don't know about you guys but ill take Sven over Morphling Eblade any day. you like medusa, your choice of carry is terrible. | ||
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Nilrem
United States3684 Posts
On December 05 2012 12:12 Kipsate wrote: I don't know about you guys but ill take Sven over Morphling Eblade any day. Morphs current state makes me a sad storm-spirit. I admit he was too strong but now, I feel depressed playing him. | ||
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PassiveAce
United States18076 Posts
BEGIN FIGHT | ||
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Bommes
Germany1226 Posts
On December 05 2012 11:56 TheYango wrote: You're going to have to explain to me how Magnus/Sven/Batrider are more boring than Lycan or Naga. The heroes themselves are not boring or exciting, but these Sven/Magnus teamfights are just boring and frustrating in my opinion because often times good play isn't rewarded at all because one lucky cleave crit or one skewer through the whole map changes everything completely around. Not so much of a deal if you mainly watch the game, but playing it is pretty stupid. | ||
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On December 05 2012 12:25 Bommes wrote: The heroes themselves are not boring or exciting, but watching these Sven/Magnus teamfights is just boring and frustrating in my opinion because often times good play isn't rewarded at all because one lucky cleave crit or one skewer through the whole map changes everything completely around. Personal preference I guess. Bunching up when you're playing versus huge AoE heroes like that cannot be classified as good play. You don't get caught in a five man Reverse Polarity or have your whole team get one shot by a cleave crit because the opponent got lucky. They saw your team bunching up and jumped on the opportunity. Personally I like seeing supports get cleaved and die in one hit. I find it very amusing  | ||
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Bommes
Germany1226 Posts
On December 05 2012 12:28 Blitzkrieg0 wrote: Bunching up when you're playing versus huge AoE heroes like that cannot be classified as good play. You don't get caught in a five man Reverse Polarity or have your whole team get one shot by a cleave crit because the opponent got lucky. They saw your team bunching up and jumped on the opportunity. Thats not what I was talking about at all, I wasn't even talking about Reverse Polarity. Also how is a Cleave Crit not lucky when in one case 2 supports die because it critted while they were in the radius (which is fucking huge), but in the other case they would have lived on if that particular cleave didn't crit? It's the same random luck shit as Kunkka's Tidebringer, but that has a huge CD of 4 seconds so you can prepare for it. Sven with MoM fucking cleaves in a huge radius around him every 0.5 seconds. How is that fun to watch or play, especially if teamed up with Empower. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On December 05 2012 12:25 Bommes wrote: The heroes themselves are not boring or exciting, but these Sven/Magnus teamfights are just boring and frustrating in my opinion because often times good play isn't rewarded at all because one lucky cleave crit or one skewer through the whole map changes everything completely around. Not so much of a deal if you mainly watch the game, but playing it is pretty stupid. Wait, you're saying Sven/Magnus teamfights don't reward good play, but the Naga get-out-of-jail-free card does? Those are some nice rose-colored glasses. | ||
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trinxified
Canada7774 Posts
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On December 05 2012 12:34 Bommes wrote: Thats not what I was talking about at all, I wasn't even talking about Reverse Polarity. Also how is a Cleave Crit not lucky when in one case 2 supports die because it critted while they were in the radius (which is fucking huge), but in the other case they would have lived on if that particular cleave didn't crit? It's the same random luck shit as Kunkka's Tidebringer, but that has a huge CD of 4 seconds so you can prepare for it. Sven with MoM fucking cleaves in a huge radius around him every 0.5 seconds. How is that fun to watch or play, especially if teamed up with Empower. Because I like watching supports die? I find it very enjoyable personally. You can't disagree with the event being lucky when the crit itself is chance based. By definition it is, but being able to account for that chance and play around it is what separates the good player from the great player. Claiming you have good play and therefore your position is not terrible when this happens is quite silly though. I'm saying that you're out of position if you're dying to cleave and therefore you are not within the bounds of good play | ||
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Bommes
Germany1226 Posts
On December 05 2012 13:05 Blitzkrieg0 wrote: Because I like watching supports die? I find it very enjoyable personally. You can't disagree with the event being lucky when the crit itself is chance based. By definition it is, but being able to account for that chance and play around it is what separates the good player from the great player. Claiming you have good play and therefore your position is not terrible when this happens is quite silly though. I'm saying that you're out of position if you're dying to cleave and therefore you are not within the bounds of good play So obviously all the competitive players are not playing good, otherwise heroes like Sven who have quite bad mobility and disables within a late game teamfight compared to other carries should be easily countered by good play. So they aren't picked at all in competitive play as a lategame carry, because we have competent players at work who know how to play against carries like that, right? Also, marking words in italic as a subtle hint that my discussion partner is a shitty player is not subtle at all. | ||
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Kupon3ss
時の回廊10066 Posts
On December 05 2012 13:09 Bommes wrote: So obviously all the competitive players are not playing good, otherwise heroes like Sven who have quite bad mobility and disables within a late game teamfight compared to other carries should be easily countered by good play. So they aren't picked at all in competitive play as a lategame carry, because we have competent players at work who know how to play against carries like that, right? yes, which is why the chinese were happy to let foreign teams have sven during WCG | ||
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Bommes
Germany1226 Posts
On December 05 2012 13:10 Kupon3ss wrote: yes, which is why the chinese were happy to let foreign teams have sven during WCG iG picked Sven at least once, I didn't follow a lot of WCG though so maybe they picked him multiple times. Also he was part of 1st phase Bans in Chinese vs. Chinese games (in the Grand Finals that is), so your whole point is invalid. edit: All I'm saying is that I don't think this Dota version is good compared to previous ones. Drow and Cent are obviously completely broken, but there are a couple of other heroes who are just too strong (like Undying). I never wanted to focus so much on Sven in this discussion but thats obviously what happened. Thats my personal opinion and I don't expect anyone else to share it, so I'll just stay out of this thread because there is apparently a strong community who loves to watch the Sven-Magnus-Cleave-Clusterfuckness. Because Cleave is great. | ||
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Kupon3ss
時の回廊10066 Posts
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