EPTOn October 28 2012 17:57 rabidch wrote:
it didnt take statistics to figure out that cent's ultimate had to be nerfed -_-
it didnt take statistics to figure out that cent's ultimate had to be nerfed -_-
So what did it take? Theorycrafting? ok...
General Discussion - Page 1349
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cecek
Czech Republic18921 Posts
So what did it take? Theorycrafting? ok... | ||
TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On October 28 2012 17:57 cecek wrote: It's been a day and he was already forced into changing it. That's in no way enough time for players to learn how to play with or against a completely new ability. Stuff like this is hindering the evolution of DotA, just because people can't handle losing to an imba hero. Centaur is not the first new hero/remake to be nerfed virtually immediately after release. Examples: Zet - released in 6.75, immediately nerfed in 6.75b Xin - released in 6.73, immediately nerfed in 6.73c Tuskarr - released in 6.70, immediately nerfed in 6.70b Doom - reworked in 6.66, immediately nerfed in 6.66b All of these happened in similar timeframe to the this Centaur nerf (Centaur nerfed after 7 days, Zet after 3, Tuskarr after 5, Xin and Doom after ~2 weeks). Again, its TOTALLY NORMAL for a remake/new hero to be insta-nerfed like this. None of these were released in the context of DotA 2 at all. This is just how Icefrog works. No, he's just doing what he's done with the greater share of new heroes/remakes--starting with them in an overtuned state, and slowly moving them back downward. This is not some new thing to DotA like you claim it to be. This is completely normal within Icefrog's MO. EDIT: I just realized what an amusing coincidence it is that Doom Bringer of all heroes was reworked in version 666. | ||
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NB
Netherlands12045 Posts
 on balancing: you have to approach DotA2 really differently compare to anything you have ever play. The main idea is: What is the definition of 'Balance'? There are so many factor inside the game that is influence by skill level and players personality as well as team composition that make the game impossible to design a perfect utopia patch. So patches are just created, in a sense, to introduce new contents and constantly refresh the game into something new. I would like to quote Kuroky when he was cocasting starladder final with tobi: There is no balance patches, each patches has its own flavor, different strengths and weaknesses. Looking back at DotA history: he is right. If you look at the game around the kunka patch with 5 men disable chain stun, the game was really close to reach the saturation point for excitement. Then the map is expanded, new pathing, new heroes, new meta. Together with evolutionist like Loda Global Ganking or Vigoss QoP/PoTM... The game keep reaching a new point of "balance". In the end: it is important to remind yourself that this game will NEVER EVER be balanced. What matter in this game should always be having fun. | ||
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rabidch
United States20289 Posts
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Incze
Romania2058 Posts
I did like the 1k crits with bfury, though | ||
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cecek
Czech Republic18921 Posts
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NB
Netherlands12045 Posts
On October 28 2012 18:19 rabidch wrote: back in 6.70 tuskar was wrecking pubs left and right. icefrog decided that well thats good enough and nerfed him slightly along with a bunch of bug fixes 4 days later, and after that he still required more nerfs. 4 days is very comparable to centaur's ultimate release. I remember icefrog nerfed clock for at least 5 patches after he came out. His stats was way too absurd plus that the mechanic of the hero wasnt really matter to pub stomp with him. After a year of nerf or so, he got slight buff again and become stable until very recently. The same with kunkka when he first came out: pretty much an instant pick in every tournament game and this is before shadow demon was in the game :-3 | ||
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Stancel
Singapore15360 Posts
Pretty decent way to kill 20 minutes, got 53/73 before I started looking up teams, ended with 70/73. Missed Naix, SF and Tiny  | ||
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PrinceXizor
United States17713 Posts
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Skullflower
United States3779 Posts
On October 28 2012 18:53 DoNotDisturb wrote: http://www.sporcle.com/games/reaverxai/dota-2-players Pretty decent way to kill 20 minutes, got 53/73 before I started looking up teams, ended with 70/73. Missed Naix, SF and Tiny Those are the few I got. Bleek, Fogged & Korok. Honestly I got like 12. | ||
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BurningSera
Ireland19621 Posts
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mr_tolkien
France8631 Posts
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NB
Netherlands12045 Posts
On October 28 2012 19:57 mr_tolkien wrote: Btw has anybody been playing the new meepo around here ? He looks incredibly strong but I haven't seen that much of him ! match ID: 54551888 didnt play it myself but that guy on my team did pretty damn well :-/ | ||
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igotmyown
United States4291 Posts
On October 28 2012 17:01 NB wrote: Cannot believe how much shit i got by going Furion dagon eblade.... "FURION ARE YOU A VIRGIN" "NP, I WILL FUCK YOUR MOTHER" "BULLSHIT, PUSSY HERO" etc.... Eblade dagon furion should be use MUCH MUCH more now since dagon has been buff quite a lot lately as well as eblade damage. It create a tense atmostphere among the enemy team that force them to 5 men dota which help you in your split pushing strategy(Drow ranger HELLO?). Go! everyone GO AND DO IT! What buff? Was the damage increased as well? I know there was a cooldown reduction, but level 1 goes from 40 to 35, not a big deal. Dagon 5 is still really expensive, you can get dagon 1 eb for about the same cost as dagon 5. | ||
Firebolt145
Lalalaland34505 Posts
On October 28 2012 20:59 igotmyown wrote: What buff? Was the damage increased as well? I know there was a cooldown reduction, but level 1 goes from 40 to 35, not a big deal. Dagon 5 is still really expensive, you can get dagon 1 eb for about the same cost as dagon 5. Go Dagon 5 + EB, ezz????? | ||
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Nevuk
United States16280 Posts
On October 28 2012 17:22 Itsmedudeman wrote: ? is that why ursa got nerfed? Maybe if you use more caps that would make you more correct.They're balanced around both. That's why you see icefrog going after the most obvious heroes who are overpowered and underpowered in both. Why did ursa get nerfed anyways? I still don't get that. He really wasn't that strong in pubs (blah blah even statistically it wasn't that high in 6.75) and was nerfed after being buffed several patches without seeing competitive play from anyone but next.kz I guess it wasn't technically a nerf so much as a tweak since it reduced the cast time overall but it definitely changes him quite a bit. On October 28 2012 20:59 igotmyown wrote: What buff? Was the damage increased as well? I know there was a cooldown reduction, but level 1 goes from 40 to 35, not a big deal. Dagon 5 is still really expensive, you can get dagon 1 eb for about the same cost as dagon 5. The CD reduction at higher levels is more significant and null talismans are cheaper. Also Eblade now working off of primary stat makes dagon synergize with it for int heroes. | ||
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Unleashing
Denmark14978 Posts
On October 28 2012 18:43 NB wrote: I remember icefrog nerfed clock for at least 5 patches after he came out. His stats was way too absurd plus that the mechanic of the hero wasnt really matter to pub stomp with him. After a year of nerf or so, he got slight buff again and become stable until very recently. The same with kunkka when he first came out: pretty much an instant pick in every tournament game and this is before shadow demon was in the game :-3 Wow i remember release kunkka. That shit was wack. | ||
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duoform
Spain5180 Posts
On October 28 2012 18:14 NB wrote: hmm: for those of you who missed the ROOT Decision making show: Catz said he is mainly playing DotA2 nowaday instead of sc2(bot WoL and HoTS). DotA2 attract more personalities + players is a good thing on balancing: you have to approach DotA2 really differently compare to anything you have ever play. The main idea is: What is the definition of 'Balance'? There are so many factor inside the game that is influence by skill level and players personality as well as team composition that make the game impossible to design a perfect utopia patch. So patches are just created, in a sense, to introduce new contents and constantly refresh the game into something new. I would like to quote Kuroky when he was cocasting starladder final with tobi: There is no balance patches, each patches has its own flavor, different strengths and weaknesses. Looking back at DotA history: he is right. If you look at the game around the kunka patch with 5 men disable chain stun, the game was really close to reach the saturation point for excitement. Then the map is expanded, new pathing, new heroes, new meta. Together with evolutionist like Loda Global Ganking or Vigoss QoP/PoTM... The game keep reaching a new point of "balance". In the end: it is important to remind yourself that this game will NEVER EVER be balanced. What matter in this game should always be having fun. It's good to see so many good personalities coming to DotA2. CatZ and seleCT are a good example. I think DotA2, at least in the West still needs way more exposure. I don't know if Valve is willing to do (probably not because Valve) to become more respectful. Although it's getting there, yesterday the peak was 150,000 players. I wonder what will happen to that numbers when China gets their hands into the game... | ||
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Heh_
Singapore2712 Posts
On October 28 2012 18:43 NB wrote: I remember icefrog nerfed clock for at least 5 patches after he came out. His stats was way too absurd plus that the mechanic of the hero wasnt really matter to pub stomp with him. After a year of nerf or so, he got slight buff again and become stable until very recently. The same with kunkka when he first came out: pretty much an instant pick in every tournament game and this is before shadow demon was in the game :-3 Actually the real reason why clock was so powerful when released is because people were trying to run away from battery assault. I'll stop commenting on CW and drow for now, while I play CM exclusively. Well, until your captain decides to go 3rd pick pudge/4th pick omni. | ||
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pap0t
Philippines279 Posts
Clockwork started with +5 armor. Then if u get the Old Phase Boots that had +5 armor. You were basically unkillable when u reach lvl6. Thus Phase Boots got changed a week later. Also. Remember the PitLord + Undying combo. When Corpse Explosion work on tombstone zombies. There was a few Dota1 tournaments that freaking wen't crazy cause of that. They both could basically push 2on5 everyone at lvl1. | ||
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