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Someone wrote terran units are stupid compared to toss and zerg, hmmm....
Well lets takea look a this shall we, when you auto attack lings they are so stupid, they actually require a whole second to auto aquire a target and start moving and attacking, if you dance your attacked unit, they take another second of stupidity to start moving again, hence the constant requirement to focus them to be effective (ling micro), now does teran have to do this with rines. no, ranged units do not suffer from this retarded 1 second delay, and guess what 99% teran units are ranged, so we have to conclude that Terran does not have the most stupid units as someone boldly stated.
Also i disagree of teran being the hardest to use, it always has the least forces on the ground, so i ts easyer to group them, toss always has to use more army to beat the terran army (and stay 1 expo ahead) and so does the zerg, in PvZ zerg have so many units its impossible to even try and grp them all when population reaches over 100, toss even on very high population still has around 4 grps, easily hotkeyable, also its so much harder to use swarms efectivly than storms or Iradiate, iradiate being the easyest one to use. Some may disagree, some may agrree with me, but theres no real way of proving witch is harder to use, since a lot of the skill in using a race is strat and timing, on pro level, execution is no longer a problem to any of the players, so this discusion is a bit pointless. Only not-gosu ppl like you and me (cuz thats what we are, its reality we are not,pro no matter how good some of you may be) can debate this, and hold some relevance in some of our minds, hence the views are highly subjective (so is mine in the end, although i try to be as objective as i can).
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On February 26 2008 19:17 eugen1225 wrote:
Someone wrote terran units are stupid compared to toss and zerg, hmmm....
Well lets takea look a this shall we, when you auto attack lings they are so stupid, they actually require a whole second to auto aquire a target and start moving and attacking, if you dance your attacked unit, they take another second of stupidity to start moving again, hence the constant requirement to focus them to be effective (ling micro), now does teran have to do this with rines. no, ranged units do not suffer from this retarded 1 second delay, and guess what 99% teran units are ranged, so we have to conclude that Terran does not have the most stupid units as someone boldly stated.
Also i disagree of teran being the hardest to use, it always has the least forces on the ground, so i ts easyer to group them, toss always has to use more army to beat the terran army (and stay 1 expo ahead) and so does the zerg, in PvZ zerg have so many units its impossible to even try and grp them all when population reaches over 100, toss even on very high population still has around 4 grps, easily hotkeyable, also its so much harder to use swarms efectivly than storms or Iradiate, iradiate being the easyest one to use. Some may disagree, some may agrree with me, but theres no real way of proving witch is harder to use, since a lot of the skill in using a race is strat and timing, on pro level, execution is no longer a problem to any of the players, so this discusion is a bit pointless. Only not-gosu ppl like you and me (cuz thats what we are, its reality we are not,pro no matter how good some of you may be) can debate this, and hold some relevance in some of our minds, hence the views are highly subjective (so is mine in the end, although i try to be as objective as i can). Well, try to engage 2 lurkers with a lurker egg in front of them without microing at all besides attack-moving/scanning to the spot and see what the marines end up doing. Watch Goliaths stupidly stand there as Carriers go out of range.
I was talking about if you don't try to micro your units besides the bare minimum A+Click. Zerglings as well as other zerg units are very smart when using A+Click and will rape provided you engage/flank correctly, marines and Goliaths are horrible and tend to just get raped if not controlled. Of course marines are a lot more efficient when you micro them, but that requires attention. Tell me which one is harder to control while keeping up in macro, lurk/ling/ultra or marine/med/vessel? Point is Terran is way harder to efficiently control than other races.
Yes a good Terran's late-game is a real bitch to handle as a zerg, but if you can't handle it odds are the Terran player owning you probably worked his ass off training a lot more than you have on your zerg to get to the level of play that he's at.
okay i admit dragoons are pretty dumb vs tanks/mines 
edit:...you said irradiate is the easiest to use and storm/swarm is harder.. okay LOL why did I even bother responding to you <_>
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i'd have to say both zvt and tvz are both hard, with maybe zvt harder than tvz, mechanics wise. incontrol once said that lurk/ling micro is far from intuitive, whereas with mm you just stim, pick off lings/lurks, run back when they burrow. terran balls are extremely hard to stop without swarm, and even with swarm, you gotta consume, cast swarms, manage huge groups of lurkers and lings (and only 6 pop of lings fit in one ctrl group vs 12 marines), scourge, etc. while all macroing in base
whereas terran just 1t2t3t4t 1a2a3a4a (though casting irradiate is a little apm demanding)
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Russian Federation4235 Posts
I play protoss and zerg and in terms of pure mechanics, protoss is much harder. Much more stuff to build, harder macro, etc, although in lategame ZvT it evens out. However, it's just due to the abundance of ways to play protoss. Some plays are quite simple and look solid, but in reality, playing it "right" is very hard. I can't really compare to terran since I don't play T, but I think that "stim and siege" are abit overrated. Once again, terran requires it to win, while toss may attack-move and it will look like he "almost won", but stepping from that almost to solid winrate is huge. Serious toss builds can get extremely hard, try doing reaver harass and double nexus at the same time (basically, in a timespan of 2-3 minutes you need to expand twice, maynard probes twice splitting them correctly, build an assload of gateways, pylons, citadel and probably achives, all the while building probes, observers and units and microing your reaver shuttle, and depending on how well the harass goes, start a stargate), it's very hard mechanically.
EDIT: But then again, all these discussions are retarded.
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I'm starting to think I'm supposed to feel worse than I do since I play toss and apparently the consensus here is that it's "easier".
I dunno, whenever I won on LT versus a gay terran cliffer, I felt pretty good. You tell me, is it easier to spam turrets on cliffs or to drop while sacrificing shuttles, snipe incoming dropships while not falling behind economically?
Also I was under the impression PvZ is damn hard; I guess I'm just falling behind the times.
Edit - I voted zerg because knowing when to choose economy over units and vice versa seems to me to be such a difficult thing to learn. I don't know anything about ZvT but Z micro looks so much more difficult and with larger penalties when doing it wrong, especially late game.
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United States17042 Posts
at least at the pro level, zerg seems to be much harder to play than toss or terran-terran has a few non-cheese strats to choose from, and even though all of them require a large amount of micro/apm to pull off correctly, the strategies and counters are easy to pull off. Protoss must get their unit combinations right, but at the pro level is a much more macro matchup in pvt or pvz.
zerg on the other hand, at every point in the game gets to choose what unit combinations they must do, and make decisions based on many many different factors present in the game.
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What about the Xel'Naga? They must be the hardest race to master since no pros play them
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Terran require the most micro to be successful. You can barely ever just attack-move a terran army and then jump back to your base to macro. Terran requires more multitasking, which is hard.
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Well, I'm glad everyone realizes protoss can be taught to a 10 year old in about two days. Add another few days and you have an A+ ICCup player that will eventually download a map hack, get caught, and continue to play in everything.
Mahaha.
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Trolls are the hardest race to use.
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Terran is the hardest mainly because of it's mobility, and micro needed!
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On February 26 2008 19:30 noobienoob wrote:Show nested quote +On February 26 2008 19:17 eugen1225 wrote:
Someone wrote terran units are stupid compared to toss and zerg, hmmm....
Well lets takea look a this shall we, when you auto attack lings they are so stupid, they actually require a whole second to auto aquire a target and start moving and attacking, if you dance your attacked unit, they take another second of stupidity to start moving again, hence the constant requirement to focus them to be effective (ling micro), now does teran have to do this with rines. no, ranged units do not suffer from this retarded 1 second delay, and guess what 99% teran units are ranged, so we have to conclude that Terran does not have the most stupid units as someone boldly stated.
Also i disagree of teran being the hardest to use, it always has the least forces on the ground, so i ts easyer to group them, toss always has to use more army to beat the terran army (and stay 1 expo ahead) and so does the zerg, in PvZ zerg have so many units its impossible to even try and grp them all when population reaches over 100, toss even on very high population still has around 4 grps, easily hotkeyable, also its so much harder to use swarms efectivly than storms or Iradiate, iradiate being the easyest one to use. Some may disagree, some may agrree with me, but theres no real way of proving witch is harder to use, since a lot of the skill in using a race is strat and timing, on pro level, execution is no longer a problem to any of the players, so this discusion is a bit pointless. Only not-gosu ppl like you and me (cuz thats what we are, its reality we are not,pro no matter how good some of you may be) can debate this, and hold some relevance in some of our minds, hence the views are highly subjective (so is mine in the end, although i try to be as objective as i can). Well, try to engage 2 lurkers with a lurker egg in front of them without microing at all besides attack-moving/scanning to the spot and see what the marines end up doing. Watch Goliaths stupidly stand there as Carriers go out of range. I was talking about if you don't try to micro your units besides the bare minimum A+Click. Zerglings as well as other zerg units are very smart when using A+Click and will rape provided you engage/flank correctly, marines and Goliaths are horrible and tend to just get raped if not controlled. Of course marines are a lot more efficient when you micro them, but that requires attention. Tell me which one is harder to control while keeping up in macro, lurk/ling/ultra or marine/med/vessel? Point is Terran is way harder to efficiently control than other races. Yes a good Terran's late-game is a real bitch to handle as a zerg, but if you can't handle it odds are the Terran player owning you probably worked his ass off training a lot more than you have on your zerg to get to the level of play that he's at. okay i admit dragoons are pretty dumb vs tanks/mines edit:...you said irradiate is the easiest to use and storm/swarm is harder.. okay LOL why did I even bother responding to you <_>
Terran micro/tactics is just mechanically hard, everyone sees the level of multitasking/micro Ts have to pull off so the difficulty in playing Terran is just more obvious. Whereas controlling an army that can melt in 3 seconds if improperly positioned or caught off guard makes controlling zerg units quite annoying too. Marines are "dumb" if youre trying to spread to kill lurks but try having your ling/lurk group caught off guard by a stray tank shot and see how "dumb" they are :p Not to mention Terran has an advantage in suffering less slippery slope than the other races, you make mistakes as a Terran and you still have more chances to come back in the game than the other 2 races. E.g. TvZ you lose your army-> youre quite behind, but you can sit and turtle in your main+nat and try to abuse your super cost-efficient units to get back in the game. ZvT you lose your army-> your nat gets obliterated.
I'm not sure what you're talking about on the last part, Irradiate is a hell of a lot easier to use than swarm, using swarm takes some really precise coordination of your forces as well as positioning gamesense, irradiate is essentially a duck-hunt button (see it, irradiate it). You swarm too early-> T simply retreats. You swarm too late-> everythings dead. Not to mention you have to coordinate the defiler with lings or it will die before it gets a single spell off, its an 80 HP slow-ass ground unit whereas irradiate is on a 200 HP speedy flier.
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On February 26 2008 16:10 Newbistic wrote:
Ugh Zerg is hardest by far.
With the other two races you just pump workers and troops, and end up with an army. All you gotta pay attention to is the timing and positions. With Zerg you have to pay attention to timing AND economy, when to use larva on troops and when to use larva on drones. Plus the hatcheries end up all over the map, while with Terran and Protoss most of the unit production is clustered in a single place.
This is one of the reasons i think Zerg is the hardest to play.
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Agreed with most of what haas been said, I voted terran because you absolutely have to have good mechanics to be good which is less so for the other races. Zerg is probably the hardest to learn for a really new player, because for the other races you can just tell them to never stop pumping scvs/probes and they'll already have made a huge improvement. But once you get past that stage then terran.
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Protoss is a pain in the ass to play at prolevel, but hardest race to use is terran.
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Calgary26003 Posts
This isn't strategy and it doesn't follow any guidelines.
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EPT
