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Klockan3
Sweden2866 Posts
On September 10 2007 04:21 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote: I seriously think most people think MBS would have a bigger impact on the game than it will have. Yeah, somehow people seems to think that armies will pop out of nowere and noobs will go rampage with 200/200 within 5 minutes just beacuse of mbs. | ||
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orangedude
Canada220 Posts
On September 10 2007 02:08 NonY[rC] wrote: It sounds like there is an issue with reviewers. If reviewers can't recognize what a competitive RTS requires then they need to be educated. While game reviewers are good at playing a ton of games a year, for a short period of time each, and writing reviews for gamers that do the same, they completely fail at understanding what a long term competitive game requires. If they knew more, they would write a review along the lines of "StarCraft has found a perfect balance between strategy and mechanics, micromanagement and macromanagement, dexterity of the hands and dexterity of the mind. It all adds up to one of the most satisfying competitive gaming experiences created to date. If there is an RTS meant to make groundbreaking progress on the US e-Sports scene, this is it." This brings me back to my original points. The reviewers rate games for the AVERAGE player, because most people are the same as them. Reviews aren't meant to cater to pros (<5% of people). Therefore, a lowered rating due to UI limitations is an accurate review in most cases. Hardly anyone outside of the pro-scene will be informed enough to write the comments that you state. On September 10 2007 02:08 NonY[rC] wrote: It's Blizzard's job to add some e-Sports material into their promotion of SC2. If they hold a press conference prior to release (and therefore prior to reviews being written) where they talk about the elements of the game that are there specifically to create a challenge for competitive gamers and therefore create a hope that SC2 might be played professionally 5+ years after release, then the magazines and web sites can write that in. I think Blizzard has been doing a pretty decent job already, with inviting pros for tournies every year for Blizzcon/WWI (which other company does that?). Of course they can do more, but that's up to them really. What can we do about it? On September 10 2007 02:08 NonY[rC] wrote: Every single competitive game in the world (I'm thinking mostly sports here) have artificial limits that are absolutely required to maintain healthy, long-lasting competition. What are these "artificial limits" for sports aside from forcing players to play fairly or not causing any other player harm or affect their health (this is analogous to not allowing hacks on BNet)? If it's part of the game foundations itself, that's not really artificial. On September 10 2007 02:08 NonY[rC] wrote: It's the same concept and I don't know why it can't have a positive spin attached to it for SC2 so that newbies don't feel like their game is ruined. I don't believe there's any way you can really positively advertise UI restrictions in a game successfully. You not only have to convince the average person, but also reviewers. If you have good ideas for this, then we can see. | ||
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orangedude
Canada220 Posts
On September 10 2007 03:58 LxRogue wrote: MBS is by nature contrary to competitiveness. We are not being "artificially limited," we are simply given limited automation as opposed to having everything done for us by the computer. Uh... you need to rethink this and read 1esu's detailed posts regarding this. MBS compared to manually clicking through each building does not require a change in conscious decision. If you do not allow MBS, this is in fact an "artificial" limitation. On the other hand, if you made stims autocast, this is a different story, as that requires a decision. | ||
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1esu
United States303 Posts
On September 10 2007 04:05 Gandalf wrote: I am personally fine with both the presence or absence of MBS. However, I believe the latter has a much greater chance of creating a massive pro scene for SCII. Good post, but I assume you mean that the 'former', i.e. the presence of MBS, has a much greater chance of creating a massive SC2 pro scene. ^_^ | ||
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404.Nintu
Canada1723 Posts
NaDa knows that his raxx's are done producing, but he realizes it's more important for him to spread his rines than it is tell his raxx's to produce again. Macro to me isn't telling a barracks to build something. Macro to me is the decision that you have found a (small)window of opportunity to go back to your base(s) and complete the tasks that you would be unable to do when there are lurkers coming at you. The idea that I'll never see idle SCV's anymore breaks my heart. Whenever I see a progamer with idle workers, I don't think "Oh, you have terrible macro." I think, "You have more important things to do right now than macro and I respect your judgment." With MBS and AM, you no-longer need to balance your tasks between micro and macro. Workers will automatically mine. You can reproduce with a couple key presses without even looking back to your base. The delicate balance of micro and macro that makes NaDa better than everyone of us will be destroyed. The idea of never seeing a progamer lose marines carelessly when he simply wasn't paying attention to them at that time, but rather on macro, bugs me a lot. I want to see idle scv's. I want to see units die because they were not micro'd. The idea of Starcraft is that you can only complete half the tasks you need to at that moment, you have to decide which tasks are more important to do. MBS and AM just makes it more and more possible for you to do everything you need to. Starcraft will nolonger be 50%/50% macro/micro, it will be 20%/50% with a lot of free time. I apologize that I couldn't articulate my points very well, I'm insanely preoccupied, I'll come back later and try and re-articulate some of this stuff. | ||
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Aphelion
United States2720 Posts
On September 10 2007 05:06 1esu wrote: Good post, but I assume you mean that the 'former', i.e. the presence of MBS, has a much greater chance of creating a massive SC2 pro scene. ^_^ It would be the latter. | ||
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BlackStar
Netherlands3029 Posts
On September 10 2007 05:11 Nintu wrote: People keep saying that even the pro's have imperfect macro and I'm SICK of that argument. That's not an argument. It's a claim. And it is either true or not. Now you yourself will admit that it is quite accurate so what is your point? It's not like progamers don't want perfect macro. It's that in some cases it is even too difficult for them. And once that is no longer the case competitive gaming becomes pointless because progamers start to reach the sealing. Anyway, no one thinks progamers have 'terrible macro' because they can't play perfect and they have to make a decision on how to spend their time. Seems you think that something is either 'terrible' or 'perfect'. I can't quite figure out against what kind of argument this is a counter. 1esu, at least let other people decide on what their opinion is. | ||
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ImgGartok
United States216 Posts
On September 10 2007 05:11 Nintu wrote: Starcraft will nolonger be 50%/50% macro/micro, it will be 20%/50% with a lot of free time. 30% of your macro is spent clicking the 10 gateways? What is your APM, like 10? | ||
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Gandalf
Pakistan1905 Posts
On September 10 2007 05:06 1esu wrote: Good post, but I assume you mean that the 'former', i.e. the presence of MBS, has a much greater chance of creating a massive SC2 pro scene. ^_^ Yep, thanks for pointing that out. Going to fix it now. | ||
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orangedude
Canada220 Posts
On September 10 2007 05:11 Nintu wrote: People keep saying that even the pro's have imperfect macro and I'm SICK of that argument. One of the biggest differences between pro's and amateurs is that a pro knows when it's more important to micro your MnM's than it is to tell your raxxes to produce more. People say that pro's will often have an expo with 4 scv's just sitting there after being built. Stop calling that "Imperfect" macro. Of course it's not perfect, it's not supposed to be perfect! You're not supposed to be able to perfect macro while still being able to micro your attacks. That defeats the delicate balance which makes Starcraft as intricate as it is. You're missing the point of the pro-MBS side. It's not perfect now, and it never will be perfect even with MBS. It will just become slightly closer there for EVERYONE. This means you're adding overall skill into the game, which can only be a good thing. It would be even better IMO, if there are other macro-related tasks to take up some of that time, which I'm sure there will be in SC2. On September 10 2007 05:11 Nintu wrote: Macro to me is the decision that you have found a (small)window of opportunity to go back to your base(s) and complete the tasks that you would be unable to do when there are lurkers coming at you. That decision is still there. It just takes maybe half a second less time than it took before for the pros. On September 10 2007 05:11 Nintu wrote: The idea that I'll never see idle SCV's anymore breaks my heart. Whenever I see a progamer with idle workers, I don't think "Oh, you have terrible macro." I think, "You have more important things to do right now than macro and I respect your judgment." I disagree with this. They didn't make a conscious judgment to let workers idle. They were just preoccupied with something else and forgot to. It takes them maybe half a second or less to send an idle worker to mine and get back to what they were doing before. Any player who is considered to have superior macro than another will be less likely to have idle workers. On September 10 2007 05:11 Nintu wrote: The idea of never seeing a progamer lose marines carelessly when he simply wasn't paying attention to them at that time, but rather on macro, bugs me a lot. I want to see idle scv's. I want to see units die because they were not micro'd. The idea of Starcraft is that you can only complete half the tasks you need to at that moment, you have to decide which tasks are more important to do. MBS and AM just makes it more and more possible for you to do everything you need to. This is your personal opinion. I'd rather not see careless play if one is considered the best in the world. Which is more exciting? One player winning a game because they outplayed their opponent with a "pimpest play", or a win only because his opponent played sloppily? Look at who are some of the most popular players in Korea like  BoxeR and  Nal_rA. They are known for their unorthodox/creative/daring plays that won them games, not because they played more flawlessly than the other player. In SC2, this will only become more important to winning a game than it currently is, so you will see even more of these "plays" to differentiate between the best.On September 10 2007 05:11 Nintu wrote: Starcraft will nolonger be 50%/50% macro/micro, it will be 20%/50% with a lot of free time. What are you judging these %'s on? How much time is spent on each? It only takes progamers 1 second to cycle through their buildings and build all their units. They only need to do this once every 40 seconds for say a dragoon. Next, for the average SC newbie, it's probably true that a majority of their time is actually spent producing units. They will then a-attack these units and continue producing more. That is NOT a good thing. This will change with MBS, now they will actually try to focus on controlling them better if macroing is made easier, instead of sending them out on suicide missions. This means additional skill will be added to the game. Finally, I would personally prefer if some other macro-related aspect was placed in to increase time spent, that is not due to an ARTIFICIAL LIMIT by the UI (i.e. like the Protoss warpgates). So, I think it's better to try to come up with new ideas instead of debating about a design choice that's already coming. | ||
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1esu
United States303 Posts
On September 10 2007 05:22 BlackStar wrote: 1esu, at least let other people decide on what their opinion is. It was a joke! I was pointing out that his entire post was pro-MBS, yet he got 'former' and 'latter' mixed up, thus accidentally saying he was anti-MBS after making all those points for the pro side. I was simply pointing his error out so he could fix it. Relax, peoples. ^_^ | ||
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fuglyfrog
United States521 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + 47 Reasons TA is better than Starcraft 1) Starcraft only has 84 units, over half of which are buildings and their add-ons! Total Annihilation has over 250. 2) In Starcraft, only 12 units can be in a group at once. Note that this was claimed to help "prevent rushing", not that it really does because you can just hotkey groups of units. Of course, Total Annihilation has no limit. 3) In Starcraft, a maximum of five units can be built at once by each building except Zerg, who can only build three and only at certain times. Total Annihilation has no limit. 4) In Starcraft, only nine commands can be given to one unit at once and you can't see what has been queued or in what order, nor can you undo any queued commands and the commands can only be spells or movement orders. In Total Annihilation there is no limit, and you are shown exactly what each unit will do and in what order and you can undo and redo any of the commands in any order. 5) In Starcraft, when a construction unit builds a structure, or a unit plant builds a unit, no other units can help construct, hence the build speed cannot be augmented in any way. In Total Annihilation, you can have as many units as you want help construct buildings and units to speed it up. (Note that even in WarCraft II, you could make an extra peon help build a structure.) 6) There are a limited number of resources on any given Starcraft map. Total Annihilation has no limit. However, when making a map, you can simulate the 'limited resources' concept by restricting all resource units (Solar Collectors, Metal Extractors etc.), and place lots of debris, rocks, and trees. That way you will have to reclaim them, much like in gathering your resources in Starcraft. 7) In Starcraft, you can select all units of the same type, but only on the screen, and only 12 of them. CTRL-Z in Total Annihilation selects all units of that type on the map. 8) Starcraft has no water units whatsoever. In Total Annihilation, you can build entire bases on or under the water! 9) In Starcraft, there is no way to reclaim the minerals of dead units, buildings, and incomplete buildings (not that there is any debris from buildings, of course, as it "magically disappears"). In Total Annihilation, all destroyed units and buildings leave behind scrap metal which can be extracted and reused. You can even extract the metal from operational units and buildings, friend or foe. 10) In Starcraft, all units see in a circular radius, with small line of sight restrictions from large mountains. In Total Annihilation, you can choose between circular line of sight as in Starcraft, permanent line of sight as in Command & Conquer or true line of sight, where units cannot see through walls or over cliffs. 11) In Starcraft, all units shoot in a circular radius, including through wall and over cliffs. The projectiles are not effected by elevation, wind, or gravity. Total Annihilation uses true physics to determine the path of projectiles. 12) In Starcraft, the only change in elevation is onto plateaus and bridges and such, but you're not really "above" anyone as far as the game is concerned. Total Annihilation has everything from small hills to huge mountains that affect the game dramatically. 13) You can not see the energy of a unit unless it is selected in Starcraft. In Total Annihilation, you can see the remaining armour of all units on the screen at once, or turn that off if you prefer more atmosphere. 14) In Starcraft, aircraft can not land. In Total Annihilation, not only do aircraft land, but some can do so underwater. 15) The music in Starcraft is all played on a synthesizer. The music in Total Annihilation is played by a real orchestra and if you prefer, you can put in different CDs and play anything you want. 16) In Starcraft, you can't deselect your selected unit ever, unless they die or go into a assimilator/extractor! In Total Annihilation, you can always deselect everything by right clicking. 17) Right clicking in Starcraft uses "smart commands," but left clicking only uses commands that have been selected. In Total Annihilation, left clicking uses "smart commands," unless you have a command selected. Then it uses that command. Right clicking deselects. Note that you can change the mouse settings in the options window in TA to mimic that of StarCraft. 18) In Starcraft, the only way to have a unit hold fire is to move him around or to ally with the enemy. In Total Annihilation, you can set units to hold fire, to return fire only, or to fire at will. 19) At a Starcraft unit constructing building, the only command you can give units built there is a rally point. In Total Annihilation, you can tell units where to go and set waypoints; you can have them hold fire, return fire, or fire at will; and you can have them hold position, maneuver, or roam at their destination. You can even set them to a patrol route before they exit the building! 20) StarCraft only has one construction unit. Total Annihilation has nine different construction units. Each of them can build different types of structures at varying speeds. 21) With the spawned version of Starcraft, you can only play a game hosted by the person with the CD that you used to install StarCraft. In Total Annihilation, with the spawn, you can play any multiplayer game, so long as the CDlayer ratio is at least 1:3. 22) With Starcraft online games, you have to play IPX simulated games on the internet, so you cannot use IP addresses. In Total Annihilation, you can be the server which cuts out the middle man and speeds up games, but if you want, you can always choose to play with simulated IPX. 23) In Starcraft, flying units do not fly; they hover. They are more like flying vehicles. All air units in Total Annihilation use a physics engine to determine the flight path, really bank, and do not stop in mid air like all flying units in Starcraft. 24) Projectiles in Starcraft always hit their target and do damage, whether it appears so or not. Projectiles in Total Annihilation use a physics engine to determine whether they hit or miss their targets and the damage is determined by how close the explosion was to the target. 25) Units in Starcraft cannot fire while moving. If you set them to, every unit in Total Annihilation will automatically aim and fire at enemy units in range, moving or not. This is great for hit and run missions or 'driveby shootings'. 26) Many weapons in Starcraft do not have projectiles. For example, there is a siege tank with its massive artillery shells and marines' gauss rifles that travel at infinite velocity, and then the explosion just appears on the target. Every weapon in Total Annihilation fires a projectile using a physics engine that determines how to hit the target. 27) In Starcraft the largest maps are 256x256. Total Annihilation has maps at least four times that size, for longer and more thought out strategies. 28) In Starcraft there are only two ways to get resources - mining minerals and vespene gas. In Total Annihilation there are several ways to get resources. You can reclaim plants and rocks, you can use metal extractors, metal makers, many different energy producers, and most units produce a bit of energy themselves. 29) In Starcraft if your hatchery/command center/nexus is destroyed, you keep your resources somehow, so that marine had better have deep pockets. In Total Annihilation your Commander stores all your metal and energy, so if he dies you lose most of your resources. You can also build metal and energy storage facilities so you can have a higher maximum resources capacity. Construction plants and several units also store resources. 30) Starcraft has crystals and vespene geysers growing out of the surface of space stations. Total Annihilation drills the metal out of the space station. 31) The Starcraft storyline in the manual states that the Protoss race teleport all their prebuilt buildings and warriors from the Aiur (The Protoss homeworld). However, when fighting a battle on Aiur, the Protoss gain no advantage whatsoever. In non-campaign maps TA does not include the homeworlds and therefore does not have to deal with this problem. 32) In Starcraft a marine can shoot a burrowed Zergling on the other side of a mountain wall past a barracks behind a tree underneath a Siege tank with pinpoint accuracy! In Total Annihilation you cannot. 33) In Starcraft, you cannot choose your colour. It is selected for you randomly. You are just as likely to get purple or yellow as something you want. In TA, you have a choice of ten different colours, including black. 34) Starcraft has no way at all to get new units/structures into the game, other than expansion sets, because the units are hard coded into the StarCraft engine. Total Annihilation's game engine was built specifically to load units found in the directory. When booting up the game it searches the directory and says "Oh a new unit, I'll just add him in here!" and you can then play with it normally. You can also download new units online that were posted at Cavedog's website weekly, and from many others. 35) Multiplayer lag in Starcraft is presented by the game momentarily pausing and commands being delayed by up to five seconds. Lag in Total Annihilation multiplayer simply slows the game down. 36) In Starcraft it's harder to control your units because of the unsatisfactory unit AI. For example, when trying to move a dragoon up stairs he will move jerkily up the stairs, and then decide to go back down and try to go onto the higher platform in a different way. You have to manually click for each step you want him to take. In Total Annihilation units go where you want, when you want, in the most efficient way possible most of the time. 37) In Starcraft when you initially set up the game to host, you can not change the settings when the game has been hosted. If you decide you want to play a different map, you have to completely rehost the game. IIn Total Annihilation you can change all of the settings (except for game name) while the game is being hosted, and then view the settings even while in the middle of the game. 38) In Starcraft if you want to restrict units from play, must build a custom scenario and disable the desired units for each player. In Total Annihilation, when hosting the game, meaning you can edit the unit restrictions with a few clicks you can limit the number of that unit available in the game at any time by one player, or completely prevent them from being used altogether. Other players in the game can also view the unit limits/restrictions. 39) In Starcraft all of the super weapons (nuclear missiles, psionic storms) are impossible to stop after they are casted/lauched. In Total Annihilation, you can build missile defense systems which fire anti-nukes and takes out the missile in mid air before it reaches your base. Note that the antinukes also take out other ICBMs and you can build mobile versions. 40) In Total Annihilation, most weapons as well as units are an object in the game, meaning that a Big Bertha could very well hit a bomber flying past or a nuke could hit a fighter flying overhead. In Starcraft, all weapons are mere graphical effects, and nothing like this can ever happen. 41) In SC a unit armed with more than one weapon (wraith, goliath, scout) cannot shoot both of them. In TA, units can have up to 3 weapons and can fire all at once. 42) Units do not decrease in spee when going up an incline, neither do they tilt or do anything neat. 43) Units in SC do not explode when they die. They have a pretty graphic placed on them, then they disappear, doing no damage to their surroundings. TA units can give off huge explosions, small explosions or normal explosions, all which send debris and unit pieces flying away, depending on the damage taken. 44) No radar in SC. All that you have to detect things with are LOS. TA has radars to detect units and sonar to actually SEE things underwater aswell as detecting. 45) No REALLY long range units. You cannot shell someone from a long distance (siegtanks come closest, but they really don't shoot that far). In the movies in SC they use artillery against a dragoon. 46) Units in SC cannot self destruct. If you don't want that bunker you have to attack it to destroy it. TA has selfdestruct. 47) TA has more lighting effects. When units get hit, their is light. When units explode there is light on other units. When units fire there is light. In SC the only light effects are when a unit fires, and when a nuke goes off. List of mods for TA: Engines: Spring TA:3d Unreal Annihilation Balancers: Uberhack Bugfix XTA TA Works project TA: Devolution TA: Reloaded Thunderball The Pack Warmonger Evolva Models Absolute Annihilation CornCobMan's Mod TA 4.0 TCs: Armoured Typhoon Command and Conquer TA TA Mech wars Axis and Allies TA/Spring Warhammer 40,000 TA Gundam Annihilation Dune TA Operation Barbarossa World Domination Operation Polaris WW2 Reborn Star Wars TA Final Frontier Dark Suns Independance War War at sea Opherium 3 TA: Battle for paradise Total Battletech Epic: Spring Imperial Authority Rock Paper Scissors TA: Method of Desctruction TAAW LOTR: TA Battletanx TA Races: TLL Talon Rumad Rhyoss TJT Mynn Xect AC/DC Argon Aquarians BioHazard Rogue TA-AK UN The Nafilen Addon Unit Packs/Addons: Aftermath design Unit pack MAGMA Pack Micro Pack Raven TA UTASP TAUCP TAUIP Ultimate War Seal Pack GMTA UDG 40 Spider Pack Aerial Assault Force Emergency Pack Starship Pack Total number of Mods: 72 TA has over 5000 single downloadable 3rd party units. List of mods for Starcraft Action Starcraft Aliens VS predator Aqueous Rift Brutkrieg's TC pack Fury of the Ancient Gundam Century Heidomus Kaladonmus NeoTech Open Rebellion Robotech SC Sickel Team fortress Star Trek Dominion War YoshiCraft Project Revolution StarCraft D6 StarWars Shadows of Vengeance NanoWar WormsCraft Total number of Mods: 19 Don't know about single downloadable 3rd party units for SC. TA Awards: Best Game of All Time, PC Games 1998 Gamer's Choice Award, Best Real-Time Strategy Game, PC Gamer 1998 Blister Award Winner, "Best Strategy Game of 1997", Electric Playground 1997 Game of the Year, GameSpot Best Strategy Game of 1997, GameSpot Best Multiplayer Game 1997, GameSpot Best Music 1997, GameSpot 1997 Game of the Year, GameSpot Reader's Choice Awards 1997 Best Strategy Game, GameSpot Reader's Choice Awards 1997 Best War Game, Happy Puppy's Golden Fire Hydrant Award 1997 Best Strategy Game, PC Guru Magazine, Hungary Best RTS Game, GAME.EXE Magazine, Russia 1998 Best Game of the Year 1997, PC Soulces, France Silver Trophy Award, PC Magazine Loisirs, France Top Game Award for Five Consecutive Months, PC Jeux France Best RTS Game 1997, Reader's Choice Award, PC Gamer Online Best Real-Time Strategy Game 1997, Adrenaline Vault Best Strategy Game 1997, Reader's Award, Games Domain 1997 Game of the Year, CompuNews 1997 Best Sound/Music, GamePen Best Strategy Game of 1997, Gamezilla.com Game of the Year, Game Review Central Best Real-Time Strategy Game of 1997, Ultra Game Players Magazine CG Choice Award, Computer Gaming World, 1998 Best of the Best A+ Award, PC Games 1998 Family PC Tested-Recommended, Family PC 1998 Stamp of Approval, Computer Games Strategy Plus Editor's Choice Award 1997, Online Gaming Review Special Achievement in Music 1997, Online Gaming Review Best Game of the Year 1997, Honorable Mention, Online Gaming Review Best Game of 1997, Reader's Knockout Poll Award, Games Domain Review Best PC Game of 1997, Video Games Palace Gaming Product of the Year 1997, MeccaWorld Best Strategy Game of 1997, Gamesmania Gold Player Top-Rated 5 Star Award, PC Games Germany Gold Award, PC Action Germany Top Rated 5 Star Award 1997, PC Gaming World UK Platin Award, PC Power Innovation in Gaming Award 1997, PC Review Editor's Choice Award, Game Worlds Network Editor's Choice Award, Gaming Age Editor's Choice Award 1997, All About Games Awesome! Award 1997, Game Briefs Killer Game Award 1997, The Cheater's Guild OGR Preferred Award, Online Gaming Review X-Picks Dazzler for 1997, Gamecenter Hot! 4 Star Award, GAMERZedge Hands-On Award, PC GamePro Editor's Pick Award 1997, GameSpot Buy Now! Award, San Francisco Guardian Plug & Play Star Player Award, Games Machine GamePower's 4-Lightning Bolt Award 1997 GamePen's Best of E3 Award 1997 Top 12 Games of Autumn, PC Games Europe Hot Property Award 1997, MeccaWorld Total: 55 Starcraft Awards: Greatest Game of All Time - GameSpot Number-one selling PC Game of 1998 - PC Data Game of the Year -- Academy of Interactive Arts and Sciences (AIAS) Game of the Year -- Computer Gaming World Game of the Year -- European Consumer Trade Show Industry Award Game of the Year -- PC Powerplay Game of the Year -- Gamesmania Best Game of the Year -- PCFan Taiwan Gamer's Choice of Game of the Year. -- Chinese Edition of PC Gamer or PC Gamer (China) Hall of Fame -- Gamespy Strategy Game of the Year -- Computer Games Strategy Plus Strategy Game of the Year -- Academy of Interactive Arts and Sciences (AIAS) Real Time Strategy Game of The Year -- PC Gamer Strategy Game of the Year -- Gamespot Strategy Game of the Year -- Games Domain Strategy Game of the Year -- Gamesmania Best Real Time Strategy Game - Editor's Choice -- Gamezilla Best Real Time Strategy Game - Reader's Choice -- Gamezilla Best Real Time Strategy Game - Reader's Choice -- Gamecenter Best Real Time Strategy Game - Reader's Choice -- Duelist Magazine Best Real-Time Strategy Title -- PCFan Mulitplayer Game of The Year - 1999 Milia Awards Multiplayer Game of the Year -- Gamecenter Mulitplayer Game of The Year -- The Gamers Net Best Multiplayer Title -- PCFan Best New Multiplayer Online Game -- 1999 Codie Awards Best use of Online Multiplayer Gaming (Editor Award) -- HotGames.com Best Online Game - Reader's Choice -- Duelist Magazine Special Achievement Award - Best Story -- Gamespot Special Achievement Award - Best Multiplayer Game -- Gamespot Best use of Sound in a Computer Game (Reader Award) -- HotGames.com #1 Reader's Top 50 -- PC Gamer Best Depth -- PC Accelerator 5 out of 5 Stars Editor's Choice-- Computer Gaming World 5 out of 5 Gameworthy Rating -- C/NET Gamecenter 9.4 out of 10 -- Online Game Review 92% Editors Choice -- PC Gamer 4.5 out of 5 star rating - Computer games Strategy Plus 5 out of 5 star rating - Mac 3D Total Action 9.1 out of 10 rating -- Gamespot A+ -- Gameweek 4 out of 4 star rating - USA Today From: http://www.supcomuniverse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=510 Made me chuckle. | ||
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Jyvblamo
Canada13788 Posts
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Aphelion
United States2720 Posts
On September 10 2007 07:34 fuglyfrog wrote: I think this pretty much sums up the mentality of the "rts community": + Show Spoiler + 47 Reasons TA is better than Starcraft 1) Starcraft only has 84 units, over half of which are buildings and their add-ons! Total Annihilation has over 250. 2) In Starcraft, only 12 units can be in a group at once. Note that this was claimed to help "prevent rushing", not that it really does because you can just hotkey groups of units. Of course, Total Annihilation has no limit. 3) In Starcraft, a maximum of five units can be built at once by each building except Zerg, who can only build three and only at certain times. Total Annihilation has no limit. 4) In Starcraft, only nine commands can be given to one unit at once and you can't see what has been queued or in what order, nor can you undo any queued commands and the commands can only be spells or movement orders. In Total Annihilation there is no limit, and you are shown exactly what each unit will do and in what order and you can undo and redo any of the commands in any order. 5) In Starcraft, when a construction unit builds a structure, or a unit plant builds a unit, no other units can help construct, hence the build speed cannot be augmented in any way. In Total Annihilation, you can have as many units as you want help construct buildings and units to speed it up. (Note that even in WarCraft II, you could make an extra peon help build a structure.) 6) There are a limited number of resources on any given Starcraft map. Total Annihilation has no limit. However, when making a map, you can simulate the 'limited resources' concept by restricting all resource units (Solar Collectors, Metal Extractors etc.), and place lots of debris, rocks, and trees. That way you will have to reclaim them, much like in gathering your resources in Starcraft. 7) In Starcraft, you can select all units of the same type, but only on the screen, and only 12 of them. CTRL-Z in Total Annihilation selects all units of that type on the map. 8) Starcraft has no water units whatsoever. In Total Annihilation, you can build entire bases on or under the water! 9) In Starcraft, there is no way to reclaim the minerals of dead units, buildings, and incomplete buildings (not that there is any debris from buildings, of course, as it "magically disappears"). In Total Annihilation, all destroyed units and buildings leave behind scrap metal which can be extracted and reused. You can even extract the metal from operational units and buildings, friend or foe. 10) In Starcraft, all units see in a circular radius, with small line of sight restrictions from large mountains. In Total Annihilation, you can choose between circular line of sight as in Starcraft, permanent line of sight as in Command & Conquer or true line of sight, where units cannot see through walls or over cliffs. 11) In Starcraft, all units shoot in a circular radius, including through wall and over cliffs. The projectiles are not effected by elevation, wind, or gravity. Total Annihilation uses true physics to determine the path of projectiles. 12) In Starcraft, the only change in elevation is onto plateaus and bridges and such, but you're not really "above" anyone as far as the game is concerned. Total Annihilation has everything from small hills to huge mountains that affect the game dramatically. 13) You can not see the energy of a unit unless it is selected in Starcraft. In Total Annihilation, you can see the remaining armour of all units on the screen at once, or turn that off if you prefer more atmosphere. 14) In Starcraft, aircraft can not land. In Total Annihilation, not only do aircraft land, but some can do so underwater. 15) The music in Starcraft is all played on a synthesizer. The music in Total Annihilation is played by a real orchestra and if you prefer, you can put in different CDs and play anything you want. 16) In Starcraft, you can't deselect your selected unit ever, unless they die or go into a assimilator/extractor! In Total Annihilation, you can always deselect everything by right clicking. 17) Right clicking in Starcraft uses "smart commands," but left clicking only uses commands that have been selected. In Total Annihilation, left clicking uses "smart commands," unless you have a command selected. Then it uses that command. Right clicking deselects. Note that you can change the mouse settings in the options window in TA to mimic that of StarCraft. 18) In Starcraft, the only way to have a unit hold fire is to move him around or to ally with the enemy. In Total Annihilation, you can set units to hold fire, to return fire only, or to fire at will. 19) At a Starcraft unit constructing building, the only command you can give units built there is a rally point. In Total Annihilation, you can tell units where to go and set waypoints; you can have them hold fire, return fire, or fire at will; and you can have them hold position, maneuver, or roam at their destination. You can even set them to a patrol route before they exit the building! 20) StarCraft only has one construction unit. Total Annihilation has nine different construction units. Each of them can build different types of structures at varying speeds. 21) With the spawned version of Starcraft, you can only play a game hosted by the person with the CD that you used to install StarCraft. In Total Annihilation, with the spawn, you can play any multiplayer game, so long as the CDlayer ratio is at least 1:3. 22) With Starcraft online games, you have to play IPX simulated games on the internet, so you cannot use IP addresses. In Total Annihilation, you can be the server which cuts out the middle man and speeds up games, but if you want, you can always choose to play with simulated IPX. 23) In Starcraft, flying units do not fly; they hover. They are more like flying vehicles. All air units in Total Annihilation use a physics engine to determine the flight path, really bank, and do not stop in mid air like all flying units in Starcraft. 24) Projectiles in Starcraft always hit their target and do damage, whether it appears so or not. Projectiles in Total Annihilation use a physics engine to determine whether they hit or miss their targets and the damage is determined by how close the explosion was to the target. 25) Units in Starcraft cannot fire while moving. If you set them to, every unit in Total Annihilation will automatically aim and fire at enemy units in range, moving or not. This is great for hit and run missions or 'driveby shootings'. 26) Many weapons in Starcraft do not have projectiles. For example, there is a siege tank with its massive artillery shells and marines' gauss rifles that travel at infinite velocity, and then the explosion just appears on the target. Every weapon in Total Annihilation fires a projectile using a physics engine that determines how to hit the target. 27) In Starcraft the largest maps are 256x256. Total Annihilation has maps at least four times that size, for longer and more thought out strategies. 28) In Starcraft there are only two ways to get resources - mining minerals and vespene gas. In Total Annihilation there are several ways to get resources. You can reclaim plants and rocks, you can use metal extractors, metal makers, many different energy producers, and most units produce a bit of energy themselves. 29) In Starcraft if your hatchery/command center/nexus is destroyed, you keep your resources somehow, so that marine had better have deep pockets. In Total Annihilation your Commander stores all your metal and energy, so if he dies you lose most of your resources. You can also build metal and energy storage facilities so you can have a higher maximum resources capacity. Construction plants and several units also store resources. 30) Starcraft has crystals and vespene geysers growing out of the surface of space stations. Total Annihilation drills the metal out of the space station. 31) The Starcraft storyline in the manual states that the Protoss race teleport all their prebuilt buildings and warriors from the Aiur (The Protoss homeworld). However, when fighting a battle on Aiur, the Protoss gain no advantage whatsoever. In non-campaign maps TA does not include the homeworlds and therefore does not have to deal with this problem. 32) In Starcraft a marine can shoot a burrowed Zergling on the other side of a mountain wall past a barracks behind a tree underneath a Siege tank with pinpoint accuracy! In Total Annihilation you cannot. 33) In Starcraft, you cannot choose your colour. It is selected for you randomly. You are just as likely to get purple or yellow as something you want. In TA, you have a choice of ten different colours, including black. 34) Starcraft has no way at all to get new units/structures into the game, other than expansion sets, because the units are hard coded into the StarCraft engine. Total Annihilation's game engine was built specifically to load units found in the directory. When booting up the game it searches the directory and says "Oh a new unit, I'll just add him in here!" and you can then play with it normally. You can also download new units online that were posted at Cavedog's website weekly, and from many others. 35) Multiplayer lag in Starcraft is presented by the game momentarily pausing and commands being delayed by up to five seconds. Lag in Total Annihilation multiplayer simply slows the game down. 36) In Starcraft it's harder to control your units because of the unsatisfactory unit AI. For example, when trying to move a dragoon up stairs he will move jerkily up the stairs, and then decide to go back down and try to go onto the higher platform in a different way. You have to manually click for each step you want him to take. In Total Annihilation units go where you want, when you want, in the most efficient way possible most of the time. 37) In Starcraft when you initially set up the game to host, you can not change the settings when the game has been hosted. If you decide you want to play a different map, you have to completely rehost the game. IIn Total Annihilation you can change all of the settings (except for game name) while the game is being hosted, and then view the settings even while in the middle of the game. 38) In Starcraft if you want to restrict units from play, must build a custom scenario and disable the desired units for each player. In Total Annihilation, when hosting the game, meaning you can edit the unit restrictions with a few clicks you can limit the number of that unit available in the game at any time by one player, or completely prevent them from being used altogether. Other players in the game can also view the unit limits/restrictions. 39) In Starcraft all of the super weapons (nuclear missiles, psionic storms) are impossible to stop after they are casted/lauched. In Total Annihilation, you can build missile defense systems which fire anti-nukes and takes out the missile in mid air before it reaches your base. Note that the antinukes also take out other ICBMs and you can build mobile versions. 40) In Total Annihilation, most weapons as well as units are an object in the game, meaning that a Big Bertha could very well hit a bomber flying past or a nuke could hit a fighter flying overhead. In Starcraft, all weapons are mere graphical effects, and nothing like this can ever happen. 41) In SC a unit armed with more than one weapon (wraith, goliath, scout) cannot shoot both of them. In TA, units can have up to 3 weapons and can fire all at once. 42) Units do not decrease in spee when going up an incline, neither do they tilt or do anything neat. 43) Units in SC do not explode when they die. They have a pretty graphic placed on them, then they disappear, doing no damage to their surroundings. TA units can give off huge explosions, small explosions or normal explosions, all which send debris and unit pieces flying away, depending on the damage taken. 44) No radar in SC. All that you have to detect things with are LOS. TA has radars to detect units and sonar to actually SEE things underwater aswell as detecting. 45) No REALLY long range units. You cannot shell someone from a long distance (siegtanks come closest, but they really don't shoot that far). In the movies in SC they use artillery against a dragoon. 46) Units in SC cannot self destruct. If you don't want that bunker you have to attack it to destroy it. TA has selfdestruct. 47) TA has more lighting effects. When units get hit, their is light. When units explode there is light on other units. When units fire there is light. In SC the only light effects are when a unit fires, and when a nuke goes off. List of mods for TA: Engines: Spring TA:3d Unreal Annihilation Balancers: Uberhack Bugfix XTA TA Works project TA: Devolution TA: Reloaded Thunderball The Pack Warmonger Evolva Models Absolute Annihilation CornCobMan's Mod TA 4.0 TCs: Armoured Typhoon Command and Conquer TA TA Mech wars Axis and Allies TA/Spring Warhammer 40,000 TA Gundam Annihilation Dune TA Operation Barbarossa World Domination Operation Polaris WW2 Reborn Star Wars TA Final Frontier Dark Suns Independance War War at sea Opherium 3 TA: Battle for paradise Total Battletech Epic: Spring Imperial Authority Rock Paper Scissors TA: Method of Desctruction TAAW LOTR: TA Battletanx TA Races: TLL Talon Rumad Rhyoss TJT Mynn Xect AC/DC Argon Aquarians BioHazard Rogue TA-AK UN The Nafilen Addon Unit Packs/Addons: Aftermath design Unit pack MAGMA Pack Micro Pack Raven TA UTASP TAUCP TAUIP Ultimate War Seal Pack GMTA UDG 40 Spider Pack Aerial Assault Force Emergency Pack Starship Pack Total number of Mods: 72 TA has over 5000 single downloadable 3rd party units. List of mods for Starcraft Action Starcraft Aliens VS predator Aqueous Rift Brutkrieg's TC pack Fury of the Ancient Gundam Century Heidomus Kaladonmus NeoTech Open Rebellion Robotech SC Sickel Team fortress Star Trek Dominion War YoshiCraft Project Revolution StarCraft D6 StarWars Shadows of Vengeance NanoWar WormsCraft Total number of Mods: 19 Don't know about single downloadable 3rd party units for SC. TA Awards: Best Game of All Time, PC Games 1998 Gamer's Choice Award, Best Real-Time Strategy Game, PC Gamer 1998 Blister Award Winner, "Best Strategy Game of 1997", Electric Playground 1997 Game of the Year, GameSpot Best Strategy Game of 1997, GameSpot Best Multiplayer Game 1997, GameSpot Best Music 1997, GameSpot 1997 Game of the Year, GameSpot Reader's Choice Awards 1997 Best Strategy Game, GameSpot Reader's Choice Awards 1997 Best War Game, Happy Puppy's Golden Fire Hydrant Award 1997 Best Strategy Game, PC Guru Magazine, Hungary Best RTS Game, GAME.EXE Magazine, Russia 1998 Best Game of the Year 1997, PC Soulces, France Silver Trophy Award, PC Magazine Loisirs, France Top Game Award for Five Consecutive Months, PC Jeux France Best RTS Game 1997, Reader's Choice Award, PC Gamer Online Best Real-Time Strategy Game 1997, Adrenaline Vault Best Strategy Game 1997, Reader's Award, Games Domain 1997 Game of the Year, CompuNews 1997 Best Sound/Music, GamePen Best Strategy Game of 1997, Gamezilla.com Game of the Year, Game Review Central Best Real-Time Strategy Game of 1997, Ultra Game Players Magazine CG Choice Award, Computer Gaming World, 1998 Best of the Best A+ Award, PC Games 1998 Family PC Tested-Recommended, Family PC 1998 Stamp of Approval, Computer Games Strategy Plus Editor's Choice Award 1997, Online Gaming Review Special Achievement in Music 1997, Online Gaming Review Best Game of the Year 1997, Honorable Mention, Online Gaming Review Best Game of 1997, Reader's Knockout Poll Award, Games Domain Review Best PC Game of 1997, Video Games Palace Gaming Product of the Year 1997, MeccaWorld Best Strategy Game of 1997, Gamesmania Gold Player Top-Rated 5 Star Award, PC Games Germany Gold Award, PC Action Germany Top Rated 5 Star Award 1997, PC Gaming World UK Platin Award, PC Power Innovation in Gaming Award 1997, PC Review Editor's Choice Award, Game Worlds Network Editor's Choice Award, Gaming Age Editor's Choice Award 1997, All About Games Awesome! Award 1997, Game Briefs Killer Game Award 1997, The Cheater's Guild OGR Preferred Award, Online Gaming Review X-Picks Dazzler for 1997, Gamecenter Hot! 4 Star Award, GAMERZedge Hands-On Award, PC GamePro Editor's Pick Award 1997, GameSpot Buy Now! Award, San Francisco Guardian Plug & Play Star Player Award, Games Machine GamePower's 4-Lightning Bolt Award 1997 GamePen's Best of E3 Award 1997 Top 12 Games of Autumn, PC Games Europe Hot Property Award 1997, MeccaWorld Total: 55 Starcraft Awards: Greatest Game of All Time - GameSpot Number-one selling PC Game of 1998 - PC Data Game of the Year -- Academy of Interactive Arts and Sciences (AIAS) Game of the Year -- Computer Gaming World Game of the Year -- European Consumer Trade Show Industry Award Game of the Year -- PC Powerplay Game of the Year -- Gamesmania Best Game of the Year -- PCFan Taiwan Gamer's Choice of Game of the Year. -- Chinese Edition of PC Gamer or PC Gamer (China) Hall of Fame -- Gamespy Strategy Game of the Year -- Computer Games Strategy Plus Strategy Game of the Year -- Academy of Interactive Arts and Sciences (AIAS) Real Time Strategy Game of The Year -- PC Gamer Strategy Game of the Year -- Gamespot Strategy Game of the Year -- Games Domain Strategy Game of the Year -- Gamesmania Best Real Time Strategy Game - Editor's Choice -- Gamezilla Best Real Time Strategy Game - Reader's Choice -- Gamezilla Best Real Time Strategy Game - Reader's Choice -- Gamecenter Best Real Time Strategy Game - Reader's Choice -- Duelist Magazine Best Real-Time Strategy Title -- PCFan Mulitplayer Game of The Year - 1999 Milia Awards Multiplayer Game of the Year -- Gamecenter Mulitplayer Game of The Year -- The Gamers Net Best Multiplayer Title -- PCFan Best New Multiplayer Online Game -- 1999 Codie Awards Best use of Online Multiplayer Gaming (Editor Award) -- HotGames.com Best Online Game - Reader's Choice -- Duelist Magazine Special Achievement Award - Best Story -- Gamespot Special Achievement Award - Best Multiplayer Game -- Gamespot Best use of Sound in a Computer Game (Reader Award) -- HotGames.com #1 Reader's Top 50 -- PC Gamer Best Depth -- PC Accelerator 5 out of 5 Stars Editor's Choice-- Computer Gaming World 5 out of 5 Gameworthy Rating -- C/NET Gamecenter 9.4 out of 10 -- Online Game Review 92% Editors Choice -- PC Gamer 4.5 out of 5 star rating - Computer games Strategy Plus 5 out of 5 star rating - Mac 3D Total Action 9.1 out of 10 rating -- Gamespot A+ -- Gameweek 4 out of 4 star rating - USA Today From: http://www.supcomuniverse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=510 Made me chuckle. Also why people who always blame the interface for limiting their "strategic genius" will be forever noobs. | ||
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Klockan3
Sweden2866 Posts
On September 10 2007 07:50 Aphelion wrote: Also why people who always blame the interface for limiting their "strategic genius" will be forever noobs. Not to mention that TA was imbalanced as hell and always degenerated into mindless spam of units wich all more or less did the same thing, so there wasnt much strategy in it really. | ||
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koryano321
United States309 Posts
one thing i worry bout with my opiinion aside bout mbs is the fact that zerg is at a huge disadvantage. since larvae only pop out every 30 seconds or whatever the time, im not sure, wouldnt it put them at a huge disadvantage. in the past, when the armies of other races and zerg are fighting, they had to make sure to micro their armies against the horde because of the sheer numbers. macroing at the same time is tough because of the attention you give to the zerg armies. but now, with mbs and stuff, wouldnt it dumb down the part where protoss can lets say select all their gateways and build like 10 zlots with 2 clicks? without moving your screen? zerg can use mbs too, but they would have to wait for larvae and such, totally ruining the balance of how many units they can each build. i want to explain this better, but i am focused on another thing so yeah. ill leave you guys at that. | ||
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orangedude
Canada220 Posts
On September 10 2007 07:34 fuglyfrog wrote: I think this pretty much sums up the mentality of the "rts community": + Show Spoiler + 47 Reasons TA is better than Starcraft 1) Starcraft only has 84 units, over half of which are buildings and their add-ons! Total Annihilation has over 250. 2) In Starcraft, only 12 units can be in a group at once. Note that this was claimed to help "prevent rushing", not that it really does because you can just hotkey groups of units. Of course, Total Annihilation has no limit. 3) In Starcraft, a maximum of five units can be built at once by each building except Zerg, who can only build three and only at certain times. Total Annihilation has no limit. 4) In Starcraft, only nine commands can be given to one unit at once and you can't see what has been queued or in what order, nor can you undo any queued commands and the commands can only be spells or movement orders. In Total Annihilation there is no limit, and you are shown exactly what each unit will do and in what order and you can undo and redo any of the commands in any order. 5) In Starcraft, when a construction unit builds a structure, or a unit plant builds a unit, no other units can help construct, hence the build speed cannot be augmented in any way. In Total Annihilation, you can have as many units as you want help construct buildings and units to speed it up. (Note that even in WarCraft II, you could make an extra peon help build a structure.) 6) There are a limited number of resources on any given Starcraft map. Total Annihilation has no limit. However, when making a map, you can simulate the 'limited resources' concept by restricting all resource units (Solar Collectors, Metal Extractors etc.), and place lots of debris, rocks, and trees. That way you will have to reclaim them, much like in gathering your resources in Starcraft. 7) In Starcraft, you can select all units of the same type, but only on the screen, and only 12 of them. CTRL-Z in Total Annihilation selects all units of that type on the map. 8) Starcraft has no water units whatsoever. In Total Annihilation, you can build entire bases on or under the water! 9) In Starcraft, there is no way to reclaim the minerals of dead units, buildings, and incomplete buildings (not that there is any debris from buildings, of course, as it "magically disappears"). In Total Annihilation, all destroyed units and buildings leave behind scrap metal which can be extracted and reused. You can even extract the metal from operational units and buildings, friend or foe. 10) In Starcraft, all units see in a circular radius, with small line of sight restrictions from large mountains. In Total Annihilation, you can choose between circular line of sight as in Starcraft, permanent line of sight as in Command & Conquer or true line of sight, where units cannot see through walls or over cliffs. 11) In Starcraft, all units shoot in a circular radius, including through wall and over cliffs. The projectiles are not effected by elevation, wind, or gravity. Total Annihilation uses true physics to determine the path of projectiles. 12) In Starcraft, the only change in elevation is onto plateaus and bridges and such, but you're not really "above" anyone as far as the game is concerned. Total Annihilation has everything from small hills to huge mountains that affect the game dramatically. 13) You can not see the energy of a unit unless it is selected in Starcraft. In Total Annihilation, you can see the remaining armour of all units on the screen at once, or turn that off if you prefer more atmosphere. 14) In Starcraft, aircraft can not land. In Total Annihilation, not only do aircraft land, but some can do so underwater. 15) The music in Starcraft is all played on a synthesizer. The music in Total Annihilation is played by a real orchestra and if you prefer, you can put in different CDs and play anything you want. 16) In Starcraft, you can't deselect your selected unit ever, unless they die or go into a assimilator/extractor! In Total Annihilation, you can always deselect everything by right clicking. 17) Right clicking in Starcraft uses "smart commands," but left clicking only uses commands that have been selected. In Total Annihilation, left clicking uses "smart commands," unless you have a command selected. Then it uses that command. Right clicking deselects. Note that you can change the mouse settings in the options window in TA to mimic that of StarCraft. 18) In Starcraft, the only way to have a unit hold fire is to move him around or to ally with the enemy. In Total Annihilation, you can set units to hold fire, to return fire only, or to fire at will. 19) At a Starcraft unit constructing building, the only command you can give units built there is a rally point. In Total Annihilation, you can tell units where to go and set waypoints; you can have them hold fire, return fire, or fire at will; and you can have them hold position, maneuver, or roam at their destination. You can even set them to a patrol route before they exit the building! 20) StarCraft only has one construction unit. Total Annihilation has nine different construction units. Each of them can build different types of structures at varying speeds. 21) With the spawned version of Starcraft, you can only play a game hosted by the person with the CD that you used to install StarCraft. In Total Annihilation, with the spawn, you can play any multiplayer game, so long as the CDlayer ratio is at least 1:3. 22) With Starcraft online games, you have to play IPX simulated games on the internet, so you cannot use IP addresses. In Total Annihilation, you can be the server which cuts out the middle man and speeds up games, but if you want, you can always choose to play with simulated IPX. 23) In Starcraft, flying units do not fly; they hover. They are more like flying vehicles. All air units in Total Annihilation use a physics engine to determine the flight path, really bank, and do not stop in mid air like all flying units in Starcraft. 24) Projectiles in Starcraft always hit their target and do damage, whether it appears so or not. Projectiles in Total Annihilation use a physics engine to determine whether they hit or miss their targets and the damage is determined by how close the explosion was to the target. 25) Units in Starcraft cannot fire while moving. If you set them to, every unit in Total Annihilation will automatically aim and fire at enemy units in range, moving or not. This is great for hit and run missions or 'driveby shootings'. 26) Many weapons in Starcraft do not have projectiles. For example, there is a siege tank with its massive artillery shells and marines' gauss rifles that travel at infinite velocity, and then the explosion just appears on the target. Every weapon in Total Annihilation fires a projectile using a physics engine that determines how to hit the target. 27) In Starcraft the largest maps are 256x256. Total Annihilation has maps at least four times that size, for longer and more thought out strategies. 28) In Starcraft there are only two ways to get resources - mining minerals and vespene gas. In Total Annihilation there are several ways to get resources. You can reclaim plants and rocks, you can use metal extractors, metal makers, many different energy producers, and most units produce a bit of energy themselves. 29) In Starcraft if your hatchery/command center/nexus is destroyed, you keep your resources somehow, so that marine had better have deep pockets. In Total Annihilation your Commander stores all your metal and energy, so if he dies you lose most of your resources. You can also build metal and energy storage facilities so you can have a higher maximum resources capacity. Construction plants and several units also store resources. 30) Starcraft has crystals and vespene geysers growing out of the surface of space stations. Total Annihilation drills the metal out of the space station. 31) The Starcraft storyline in the manual states that the Protoss race teleport all their prebuilt buildings and warriors from the Aiur (The Protoss homeworld). However, when fighting a battle on Aiur, the Protoss gain no advantage whatsoever. In non-campaign maps TA does not include the homeworlds and therefore does not have to deal with this problem. 32) In Starcraft a marine can shoot a burrowed Zergling on the other side of a mountain wall past a barracks behind a tree underneath a Siege tank with pinpoint accuracy! In Total Annihilation you cannot. 33) In Starcraft, you cannot choose your colour. It is selected for you randomly. You are just as likely to get purple or yellow as something you want. In TA, you have a choice of ten different colours, including black. 34) Starcraft has no way at all to get new units/structures into the game, other than expansion sets, because the units are hard coded into the StarCraft engine. Total Annihilation's game engine was built specifically to load units found in the directory. When booting up the game it searches the directory and says "Oh a new unit, I'll just add him in here!" and you can then play with it normally. You can also download new units online that were posted at Cavedog's website weekly, and from many others. 35) Multiplayer lag in Starcraft is presented by the game momentarily pausing and commands being delayed by up to five seconds. Lag in Total Annihilation multiplayer simply slows the game down. 36) In Starcraft it's harder to control your units because of the unsatisfactory unit AI. For example, when trying to move a dragoon up stairs he will move jerkily up the stairs, and then decide to go back down and try to go onto the higher platform in a different way. You have to manually click for each step you want him to take. In Total Annihilation units go where you want, when you want, in the most efficient way possible most of the time. 37) In Starcraft when you initially set up the game to host, you can not change the settings when the game has been hosted. If you decide you want to play a different map, you have to completely rehost the game. IIn Total Annihilation you can change all of the settings (except for game name) while the game is being hosted, and then view the settings even while in the middle of the game. 38) In Starcraft if you want to restrict units from play, must build a custom scenario and disable the desired units for each player. In Total Annihilation, when hosting the game, meaning you can edit the unit restrictions with a few clicks you can limit the number of that unit available in the game at any time by one player, or completely prevent them from being used altogether. Other players in the game can also view the unit limits/restrictions. 39) In Starcraft all of the super weapons (nuclear missiles, psionic storms) are impossible to stop after they are casted/lauched. In Total Annihilation, you can build missile defense systems which fire anti-nukes and takes out the missile in mid air before it reaches your base. Note that the antinukes also take out other ICBMs and you can build mobile versions. 40) In Total Annihilation, most weapons as well as units are an object in the game, meaning that a Big Bertha could very well hit a bomber flying past or a nuke could hit a fighter flying overhead. In Starcraft, all weapons are mere graphical effects, and nothing like this can ever happen. 41) In SC a unit armed with more than one weapon (wraith, goliath, scout) cannot shoot both of them. In TA, units can have up to 3 weapons and can fire all at once. 42) Units do not decrease in spee when going up an incline, neither do they tilt or do anything neat. 43) Units in SC do not explode when they die. They have a pretty graphic placed on them, then they disappear, doing no damage to their surroundings. TA units can give off huge explosions, small explosions or normal explosions, all which send debris and unit pieces flying away, depending on the damage taken. 44) No radar in SC. All that you have to detect things with are LOS. TA has radars to detect units and sonar to actually SEE things underwater aswell as detecting. 45) No REALLY long range units. You cannot shell someone from a long distance (siegtanks come closest, but they really don't shoot that far). In the movies in SC they use artillery against a dragoon. 46) Units in SC cannot self destruct. If you don't want that bunker you have to attack it to destroy it. TA has selfdestruct. 47) TA has more lighting effects. When units get hit, their is light. When units explode there is light on other units. When units fire there is light. In SC the only light effects are when a unit fires, and when a nuke goes off. List of mods for TA: Engines: Spring TA:3d Unreal Annihilation Balancers: Uberhack Bugfix XTA TA Works project TA: Devolution TA: Reloaded Thunderball The Pack Warmonger Evolva Models Absolute Annihilation CornCobMan's Mod TA 4.0 TCs: Armoured Typhoon Command and Conquer TA TA Mech wars Axis and Allies TA/Spring Warhammer 40,000 TA Gundam Annihilation Dune TA Operation Barbarossa World Domination Operation Polaris WW2 Reborn Star Wars TA Final Frontier Dark Suns Independance War War at sea Opherium 3 TA: Battle for paradise Total Battletech Epic: Spring Imperial Authority Rock Paper Scissors TA: Method of Desctruction TAAW LOTR: TA Battletanx TA Races: TLL Talon Rumad Rhyoss TJT Mynn Xect AC/DC Argon Aquarians BioHazard Rogue TA-AK UN The Nafilen Addon Unit Packs/Addons: Aftermath design Unit pack MAGMA Pack Micro Pack Raven TA UTASP TAUCP TAUIP Ultimate War Seal Pack GMTA UDG 40 Spider Pack Aerial Assault Force Emergency Pack Starship Pack Total number of Mods: 72 TA has over 5000 single downloadable 3rd party units. List of mods for Starcraft Action Starcraft Aliens VS predator Aqueous Rift Brutkrieg's TC pack Fury of the Ancient Gundam Century Heidomus Kaladonmus NeoTech Open Rebellion Robotech SC Sickel Team fortress Star Trek Dominion War YoshiCraft Project Revolution StarCraft D6 StarWars Shadows of Vengeance NanoWar WormsCraft Total number of Mods: 19 Don't know about single downloadable 3rd party units for SC. TA Awards: Best Game of All Time, PC Games 1998 Gamer's Choice Award, Best Real-Time Strategy Game, PC Gamer 1998 Blister Award Winner, "Best Strategy Game of 1997", Electric Playground 1997 Game of the Year, GameSpot Best Strategy Game of 1997, GameSpot Best Multiplayer Game 1997, GameSpot Best Music 1997, GameSpot 1997 Game of the Year, GameSpot Reader's Choice Awards 1997 Best Strategy Game, GameSpot Reader's Choice Awards 1997 Best War Game, Happy Puppy's Golden Fire Hydrant Award 1997 Best Strategy Game, PC Guru Magazine, Hungary Best RTS Game, GAME.EXE Magazine, Russia 1998 Best Game of the Year 1997, PC Soulces, France Silver Trophy Award, PC Magazine Loisirs, France Top Game Award for Five Consecutive Months, PC Jeux France Best RTS Game 1997, Reader's Choice Award, PC Gamer Online Best Real-Time Strategy Game 1997, Adrenaline Vault Best Strategy Game 1997, Reader's Award, Games Domain 1997 Game of the Year, CompuNews 1997 Best Sound/Music, GamePen Best Strategy Game of 1997, Gamezilla.com Game of the Year, Game Review Central Best Real-Time Strategy Game of 1997, Ultra Game Players Magazine CG Choice Award, Computer Gaming World, 1998 Best of the Best A+ Award, PC Games 1998 Family PC Tested-Recommended, Family PC 1998 Stamp of Approval, Computer Games Strategy Plus Editor's Choice Award 1997, Online Gaming Review Special Achievement in Music 1997, Online Gaming Review Best Game of the Year 1997, Honorable Mention, Online Gaming Review Best Game of 1997, Reader's Knockout Poll Award, Games Domain Review Best PC Game of 1997, Video Games Palace Gaming Product of the Year 1997, MeccaWorld Best Strategy Game of 1997, Gamesmania Gold Player Top-Rated 5 Star Award, PC Games Germany Gold Award, PC Action Germany Top Rated 5 Star Award 1997, PC Gaming World UK Platin Award, PC Power Innovation in Gaming Award 1997, PC Review Editor's Choice Award, Game Worlds Network Editor's Choice Award, Gaming Age Editor's Choice Award 1997, All About Games Awesome! Award 1997, Game Briefs Killer Game Award 1997, The Cheater's Guild OGR Preferred Award, Online Gaming Review X-Picks Dazzler for 1997, Gamecenter Hot! 4 Star Award, GAMERZedge Hands-On Award, PC GamePro Editor's Pick Award 1997, GameSpot Buy Now! Award, San Francisco Guardian Plug & Play Star Player Award, Games Machine GamePower's 4-Lightning Bolt Award 1997 GamePen's Best of E3 Award 1997 Top 12 Games of Autumn, PC Games Europe Hot Property Award 1997, MeccaWorld Total: 55 Starcraft Awards: Greatest Game of All Time - GameSpot Number-one selling PC Game of 1998 - PC Data Game of the Year -- Academy of Interactive Arts and Sciences (AIAS) Game of the Year -- Computer Gaming World Game of the Year -- European Consumer Trade Show Industry Award Game of the Year -- PC Powerplay Game of the Year -- Gamesmania Best Game of the Year -- PCFan Taiwan Gamer's Choice of Game of the Year. -- Chinese Edition of PC Gamer or PC Gamer (China) Hall of Fame -- Gamespy Strategy Game of the Year -- Computer Games Strategy Plus Strategy Game of the Year -- Academy of Interactive Arts and Sciences (AIAS) Real Time Strategy Game of The Year -- PC Gamer Strategy Game of the Year -- Gamespot Strategy Game of the Year -- Games Domain Strategy Game of the Year -- Gamesmania Best Real Time Strategy Game - Editor's Choice -- Gamezilla Best Real Time Strategy Game - Reader's Choice -- Gamezilla Best Real Time Strategy Game - Reader's Choice -- Gamecenter Best Real Time Strategy Game - Reader's Choice -- Duelist Magazine Best Real-Time Strategy Title -- PCFan Mulitplayer Game of The Year - 1999 Milia Awards Multiplayer Game of the Year -- Gamecenter Mulitplayer Game of The Year -- The Gamers Net Best Multiplayer Title -- PCFan Best New Multiplayer Online Game -- 1999 Codie Awards Best use of Online Multiplayer Gaming (Editor Award) -- HotGames.com Best Online Game - Reader's Choice -- Duelist Magazine Special Achievement Award - Best Story -- Gamespot Special Achievement Award - Best Multiplayer Game -- Gamespot Best use of Sound in a Computer Game (Reader Award) -- HotGames.com #1 Reader's Top 50 -- PC Gamer Best Depth -- PC Accelerator 5 out of 5 Stars Editor's Choice-- Computer Gaming World 5 out of 5 Gameworthy Rating -- C/NET Gamecenter 9.4 out of 10 -- Online Game Review 92% Editors Choice -- PC Gamer 4.5 out of 5 star rating - Computer games Strategy Plus 5 out of 5 star rating - Mac 3D Total Action 9.1 out of 10 rating -- Gamespot A+ -- Gameweek 4 out of 4 star rating - USA Today From: http://www.supcomuniverse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=510 Made me chuckle. So you want to give these same people the chance to give their same reasons for hating SC to continue on hating SC2? How about trying to convince them and a whole new group out there to join instead. | ||
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orangedude
Canada220 Posts
On September 10 2007 08:05 koryano321 wrote: even if boxer and nal_ra are one of the most popular players of all times, it doesnt support the fact that micro needs to be the most important aspect of starcraft gameplay. right now, the balance between the two are perfect. you cannot just focus on one aspect of the game and hope to win (you see intotherainbow and Nal_ra when they are trying to be tricky as hell and do insane strats, but end up falling behind in other areas and lose) but u cannot at the same time focus on pure macro (you know what happens when its pvt and u triple nex for the econ advantage while the terran does either a fd build or 2 fac push). the thing is that without both of these aspects in the game, it wouldnt be so competitive. mbs is not needed for the competitive edge in sc2, or automining. it just takes away another part of what makes the game competitive(the ability to micromanage everything as opposed to the AI having it do it all for you) out of the game, hence taking out a chunk of the game. I know it seems mundane at times where u must click 6-10 gateways and produce a mix of dragoons and zealots while the enemy is knocking on your doorstep, but it adds to the adrenaline when they are attacking you. there are so many things going on, it produces an affect that no game that i have tried that is RTS rivals. warcraft 3, you just highlight all ur buildings and push like a or h for huntress or archers and bam, you will have a fresh batch of unit, C&C series, i dont even want to go into, you are only 4 clicks away from massing a huge army in the heat of battle. i was never good at civilization or age of empires, so i will not comment on those. but what im trying to say in this winded post is, all elements of sc make sc what it is today. it is an exciting part of competitive starcraft. for example, like when oov, nada, or hwasin is fighting a zerg, when you just saw the armies of lets say savior, the armies clash and all units or a majority are lost you are like wtf right? great battle control or some errors made on whoever's part. but then the camera goes to the newly created terran blob that whoever has managed to macro IN THE HEAT OF BATTLE, ready to move out for a second clash of might, do you not get excited? doesnt it put u in awe, you are like thinking, wow goddamn pros, no wonder they are the top of the top, in the midst of all that, you have another 50 marines/medic + army along with tanks and sci vessels already waiting to roll out. i want to be just like em. its something to work for, a goal, and whatever else that pushes us to play more and more in this game. without it, once ulearn build order and shit, pretty soon anyone can macro up an army like that, specially with terran blobs, marines being dirt cheap. select ur 20 barracks and just push m + c and u are set-_-;; ppl keep bringing up the fact that the audience we need to target with this dumbed down version of sc2 is the newbs. however, are we not talking bout the competitive edge of sc here? not them? plz just listen to yourselves as you spout out bs bout how automining and mbs will not affect the competitivesness of the game. this game was designed with both micro and MACRO in mind, where you needed a balance of both to succeed. where is the balance of this when anyone in the heat of battle can press 5m and start like 10-20 marines from building all at once? one thing i worry bout with my opiinion aside bout mbs is the fact that zerg is at a huge disadvantage. since larvae only pop out every 30 seconds or whatever the time, im not sure, wouldnt it put them at a huge disadvantage. in the past, when the armies of other races and zerg are fighting, they had to make sure to micro their armies against the horde because of the sheer numbers. macroing at the same time is tough because of the attention you give to the zerg armies. but now, with mbs and stuff, wouldnt it dumb down the part where protoss can lets say select all their gateways and build like 10 zlots with 2 clicks? without moving your screen? zerg can use mbs too, but they would have to wait for larvae and such, totally ruining the balance of how many units they can each build. i want to explain this better, but i am focused on another thing so yeah. ill leave you guys at that. Organize your thoughts please. I can't understand this huge block of text. Quote my points, and reply to them individually. No one's going to read all of this. | ||
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Klockan3
Sweden2866 Posts
On September 10 2007 08:05 koryano321 wrote: one thing i worry bout with my opiinion aside bout mbs is the fact that zerg is at a huge disadvantage. since larvae only pop out every 30 seconds or whatever the time, im not sure, wouldnt it put them at a huge disadvantage. in the past, when the armies of other races and zerg are fighting, they had to make sure to micro their armies against the horde because of the sheer numbers. macroing at the same time is tough because of the attention you give to the zerg armies. but now, with mbs and stuff, wouldnt it dumb down the part where protoss can lets say select all their gateways and build like 10 zlots with 2 clicks? without moving your screen? zerg can use mbs too, but they would have to wait for larvae and such, totally ruining the balance of how many units they can each build. i want to explain this better, but i am focused on another thing so yeah. ill leave you guys at that. The amounth of larvas is already balanced to the other players amounth of buildques, so it wouldnt affect anything at all. Only difference might be that the other races has more use for it since they have more producers at any one time, but its not like they will suddenly start producing much faster than zerg just beacuse of mbs. | ||
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BlackStar
Netherlands3029 Posts
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