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Fukushima - Greenpeace documentary

Forum Index > Closed
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1 2 Next All
RapidTiger
Profile Joined April 2015
59 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-11 04:00:18
May 11 2016 03:55 GMT
#1
A very rare glimpse of what's really going on behind the scenes in Fukushima, Japan.



[image loading]

In Fukushima city (91km away from the disaster-stricken Fukushima nuclear power plants) radiation readings are as high as 10 uSv/hr.

This equivalent to a full-body CT scan every 30 days!

Skip to about 6:40. You can see dozens of children playing in an area where the hourly radiation dose is as high as 10 uSv/hr.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oe_TCM7f71w

What are your thoughts about this situation? Should children really be allowed to play in a field contaminated with radiation that is constantly being absorbed through their skin and lungs into their bloodstream and tissues/organs? Why do you think this is taking place?

My reasoning is that the Japanese public does not know the full extent of the radiation problem, because the Japanese government is reluctant to release radiation measurements in order to suppress panic and protests. However, it may also be cultural. The Japanese seem to be very stoic and patriotic, which means that they would sacrifice their lives for their country.

This video portrays the view of the Fukushima nuclear disaster from the Japanese public's perspective:


As a non-Japanese, I have somewhat mixed reactions. I would never risk myself or my children to live in an environment where radiation readings are at the level as those in Fukushima and other areas of Japan. Although, I admire the resistance of the Japanese people to crises such as these, I'm not sure if it's a sheep mentality or if they are really stoic (or both).
Some of the comments from the video above (2nd video) worry me. It seems as if the Japanese public are not concerned about their health at all.

Radiation-related health effects include infertility, increased cancer risks and birth malformations. And the effects are cumulative over the long-term, rather than short-term. Short-term high dose radiation exposure can kill someone within seconds to minutes, but this is different from long-term low dose chronic radiation exposure.

A study on Fukushima butterflies found severe mutations and abnormalities in newborn Fukushima butterflies and the severity of the mutations increased every successive generation, which means that the mutations are inherited and become worse over time.
http://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-19245818
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44394 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-11 04:55:38
May 11 2016 04:40 GMT
#2
On May 11 2016 12:55 RapidTiger wrote:
This equivalent to a full-body CT scan every 30 days!

Or eating 38 bananas a day!

Just putting an exclamation mark after an unscientific and vague measurement doesn't make it shocking. CT scans are not an accepted unit of radioactive danger.

Additionally you mention that the impact of the radiation is compounded over multiple generations of butterflies because each successive generation not only inherits the mutations of the previous but also endures the radiation poisoning. I'd say that this is insufficient to draw conclusions because people aren't butterflies and therefore you'd need to do human trials in order to actually draw a conclusion but given the vast difference in generation between butterflies and humans it's likely to not be an issue at all. It's like you'd said that the radiation was causing insects to have issues with their carapaces and were attempting to argue that we should be worried about the damage it could be doing to our own carapaces.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
May 11 2016 04:44 GMT
#3
On May 11 2016 13:40 KwarK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 11 2016 12:55 RapidTiger wrote:
This equivalent to a full-body CT scan every 30 days!

Or eating 100 bananas a day!

Just putting an exclamation mark after an unscientific and vague measurement doesn't make it shocking. CT scans are not an accepted unit of radioactive danger.


I was gonna make a joke about this but after reading some article it said that a ct scan = 100,000 bananas

can we get some sort of confirmation on a banana to ct scan ratio?
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States44394 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-11 04:56:30
May 11 2016 04:54 GMT
#4
Banana is 6.1 uSv. CT scan is 7000 uSv.

7000/30 gives us 233 uSv/day.
Divide that by 24 gives us 9.7 uSv/hr.
Divide that by 6.1 uSv gives us 1.6 bananas/hr.

Oddly enough banana equivalent units are an accepted unit of radiation. The people getting this long term exposure are consuming about a banana and a half of radiation every single hour.

Edit: Corrected the math on my first response.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
JumboJohnson
Profile Joined December 2011
537 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-11 04:56:39
May 11 2016 04:55 GMT
#5
Using ehs.research.uiowa.edu and converting 5 rem to mSv to uSv. You get an annual allowable full body dose of 50000 uSv. So 5000 hours to reach your maximum annual dose at 10 uSv/hr. There's 8760 hours in a year so I guess you could hit your annual limit but I doubt it's a consistent 10 uSv/hr.
CuddlyCuteKitten
Profile Joined January 2004
Sweden2904 Posts
May 11 2016 04:57 GMT
#6
CT scan dose depends on which part of the body you scan, resolution, how new the machine is and even which brand. Its also more an approximation since its incredibly hard to measure. A serious scientist would not compare anything to a CT scan.
Unity, support, family, and kneecapping bitches.
RapidTiger
Profile Joined April 2015
59 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-11 12:02:38
May 11 2016 11:51 GMT
#7
On May 11 2016 13:44 travis wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 11 2016 13:40 KwarK wrote:
On May 11 2016 12:55 RapidTiger wrote:
This equivalent to a full-body CT scan every 30 days!

Or eating 100 bananas a day!

Just putting an exclamation mark after an unscientific and vague measurement doesn't make it shocking. CT scans are not an accepted unit of radioactive danger.


I was gonna make a joke about this but after reading some article it said that a ct scan = 100,000 bananas

can we get some sort of confirmation on a banana to ct scan ratio?


This is correct. A CT scan = roughly 100,000 bananas.

On May 11 2016 13:40 KwarK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 11 2016 12:55 RapidTiger wrote:
This equivalent to a full-body CT scan every 30 days!

Or eating 38 bananas a day!


That's mathematically incorrect.

On May 11 2016 13:54 KwarK wrote:
Banana is 6.1 uSv. CT scan is 7000 uSv.

7000/30 gives us 233 uSv/day.
Divide that by 24 gives us 9.7 uSv/hr.
Divide that by 6.1 uSv gives us 1.6 bananas/hr.

Oddly enough banana equivalent units are an accepted unit of radiation. The people getting this long term exposure are consuming about a banana and a half of radiation every single hour.

Edit: Corrected the math on my first response.


You're using incorrect figures there.
The radioactive dose of a banana is 0.098 uSv. CT scans are generally about 10,000~30,000 uSv. So, on average, let's say a CT scan is about 15,000 uSv.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sievert

So to have the equivalent of a CT scan in one dose, you'll need to eat 15,000/0.098 = 153,061.22 bananas.

So you'll need to eat 153,061 bananas in one sitting to get the same radiation dose as a CT scan.

Eating 153,061 bananas not only isn't feasible, but a person would die of hyperkalemia before even experiencing radiation poisoning symptoms.
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
May 11 2016 13:00 GMT
#8
0.06 - 40

awesome graph you have there.
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
GoTuNk!
Profile Blog Joined September 2006
Chile4591 Posts
May 11 2016 13:16 GMT
#9
I remember some engineers willingly exposed themselves to letal dosis to stop the meltdown. An article about their stories would be interesting.
Nesserev
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Belgium2760 Posts
May 11 2016 13:25 GMT
#10
--- Nuked ---
RapidTiger
Profile Joined April 2015
59 Posts
May 11 2016 13:39 GMT
#11
On May 11 2016 22:25 Nesserev wrote:
Anti-intellectualism and pushing agendas at its best.
Greenpeace does some great things, but whenever nuclear energy gets involved they love to turn it into a shitfest.


So what exactly about the documentary is contributing to this "shitfest"?
Artisreal
Profile Joined June 2009
Germany9235 Posts
May 11 2016 14:30 GMT
#12
On May 11 2016 22:25 Nesserev wrote:
Anti-intellectualism and pushing agendas at its best.
Greenpeace does some great things, but whenever nuclear energy gets involved they love to turn it into a shitfest.

You being marked as from Belgium makes this statement funny.
Because some of the country's atomic power plants aren't particularly up to snuff concerning structural integrity or above all security. Sweepingly discrediting Greenpeace's anti "everything atomic" campaigns seems fitting
passive quaranstream fan
Nesserev
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Belgium2760 Posts
May 11 2016 15:28 GMT
#13
--- Nuked ---
AbouSV
Profile Joined October 2014
Germany1278 Posts
May 11 2016 16:10 GMT
#14
Unfortunately it is indeed hardly informative.
Another instance is the woman speaking about her berries having 6 becquerels and up when cooked, which means about nothing.
For instance, human body radiates around 8 000 Bq, but without giving how much energy the 6 and 8 000 emitted particles per seconds have, this is completely meaningless in term of potential health hazard.

When speaking in sievert, the highest radiations shown (around 3 Sv/hr) are only half what you get when in a plane.
It's higher than in the middle of nowhere, sure, but it is nowhere near an alarming level.
Shin_Gouki
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States313 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-05-11 17:50:16
May 11 2016 17:48 GMT
#15
The Japanese isn't learning the lessons from Fukushima? I fail to see how the first cataclysmic event here in Japan just after four years should spark this total nuclear shutdown or "lessons to be learned." They definitely need to look into their practices (which they have been of course) regarding the care for nuclear facilities, but if you still compare this event to Chernobyl, Japanese handled the situation better despite how lazy they've been with their power plants over the past 10 or so years (if not longer).
Greenpeace also mentions about how certain parts of Fukushima city and Iitate suffer from radiation above 7, but they fail to show us averages. They simply show us a few geiger readers and state "omg this area is filled to the brim with radiation." Would have been nice to see them show their works vs the governments work. Their website + Show Spoiler +
http://www.greenpeace.org/international/en/campaigns/nuclear/safety/accidents/Fukushima-nuclear-disaster/
isn't necessarily informative either.
Death comes in many forms
Dangermousecatdog
Profile Joined December 2010
United Kingdom7084 Posts
May 11 2016 19:05 GMT
#16
Jeez. They are getting the radiation equivalent of eating a banana every 17 seconds. That's just an insane level of radiation. Will someone think of the children!
SkrollK
Profile Joined January 2015
France580 Posts
May 11 2016 19:10 GMT
#17
Honestly, I can't help but fail to get why people are trying to debate over the subject of nuclear energy based on something written by Greenpeace...

It's not informative, not even useful. Just serves for misinformation and pure propaganda.

If you want to open a debate or speak about that subject, aim directly for scientific researchs and/or reports. There, you'll have data, supported by fact and stated hypothesis, that'll present objective facts.

I fail to see how you can pretend to be trying to discuss about something, whatever may the subject be, when you base your whole beginning statement on the work of someone (or of some organization) totally focusing on the 'good' or 'bad' thing of that something.

They don't even pretend to be objective. The next step of not being objective when you present something is rather to twist the facts or present them the way it fits you, or just straight up lie/invent things.

As a matter of fact, I just don't see how any good discussion can come up of that..
AngryMag
Profile Joined November 2011
Germany1040 Posts
May 11 2016 19:25 GMT
#18
Poor documentary. It is indeed propaganda and delivers no useful base for discussion.

I am for getting rid of nuclear energy as fast as possible but this documentary was just emberassing.
Ler
Profile Blog Joined August 2012
Germany543 Posts
May 11 2016 20:01 GMT
#19
Let it be whatever - But building a Nuclear Plant next to an active Vulcan is straight up retarded, just sayn ..
Twitter: @Ler_GG | Facebook: lergg | youtube: lerlolgg | Twitch.tv/gg_nore | #ArtOfSupport
lord_nibbler
Profile Joined March 2004
Germany591 Posts
May 11 2016 20:24 GMT
#20
You will not find a single space in Japan that is not near a vulcano or prone to earthquakes, it's Japan after all...
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