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What's funny about all this Nazi shit is that the fascists who fled to eastern Ukraine with their tails between their legs have been telling their supporters that the Maidan is a conspiracy by Jews while telling the world "OMG THEY'RE NAZIS!"
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2014/mar/20/fascism-russia-and-ukraine/?pagination=false
The protests in the Maidan, we are told again and again by Russian propaganda and by the Kremlin’s friends in Ukraine, mean the return of National Socialism to Europe. The Russian foreign minister, in Munich, lectured the Germans about their support of people who salute Hitler. The Russian media continually make the claim that the Ukrainians who protest are Nazis. Naturally, it is important to be attentive to the far right in Ukrainian politics and history. It is still a serious presence today, although less important than the far right in France, Austria, or the Netherlands. Yet it is the Ukrainian regime rather than its opponents that resorts to anti-Semitism, instructing its riot police that the opposition is led by Jews. In other words, the Ukrainian government is telling itself that its opponents are Jews and us that its opponents are Nazis.
Honestly no one cares that the smallest and least powerful faction of the Maidan is neo-Nazis and quasi-fascist nationalists, it's just propaganda by people like zeo. Sorry, the Maidan is not a fascist movement, it was never run by fascists, fascists have no prospect of taking it over, and all the actually fascist actions have been executed by the government that zeo and history professor Liman (yeah, and I'm the Queen of the May) insist is the only thing that is keeping the Ukraine from rolling out the swastika banners and the Tiger IIs they've had hidden in their garages since 1944. A good rule of thumb is whatever people like them say, the reality is the opposite.
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On February 23 2014 05:26 Ghanburighan wrote:
You guys are overestimating the split and underestimating the power of propaganda. Without a major part under Putin's control, the people have way more in common. Also, there is no talk of the Parliament overstepping its authority by the relevant FMs.
When you say 'you guys' you are talking about a poster on this forum who gets away with slandering Ukrainians as fascists. I understand why Serbs are naturally loyal to Russians but some of these posts are ridiculous -- Photoshop of Hitler?
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On February 23 2014 05:29 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2014 05:26 Ghanburighan wrote:
You guys are overestimating the split and underestimating the power of propaganda. Without a major part under Putin's control, the people have way more in common. Also, there is no talk of the Parliament overstepping its authority by the relevant FMs. When you say 'you guys' you are talking about a poster on this forum who gets away with slandering Ukrainians as fascists. I understand why Serbs are naturally loyal to Russians but some of these posts are ridiculous -- Photoshop of Hitler?
He already did this crap once, posting pictures of guys with pistols that weren't even from the Maidan and weren't even current, they were from years ago. It's all about the narrative, the Maidan are Nazis because some fascist flunky in the Russian government said they wanted 'to go back to sucking Hitler's cock.' That's good enough for them, the Maidan must be Nazis, some actual fascist said so!
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Bunch of idiots wants to crush a statue of young Lenin in one of the biggest institutes of Kharkov, those statue completely belongs to institute. Also has nothing common with current state in country.
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On February 23 2014 05:28 disciple wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2014 05:22 Sub40APM wrote:On February 23 2014 05:05 disciple wrote:
Democracy and votes are like no real solution to some political crisis. Forcing a policy on a minority that ,say, absolutely hates the idea simply cannot pass with the 'but people voted and you lost!' argument. I guess if Ukraine, or any other country for that matter, has such a core conflict between political views and direction it simply has to split so each side can govern itself as it sees fit. Majority vote just sucks when people are so polarized. How about we actually see how the votes go before we start partitioning Ukraine. Sure but a marginal victory for either side wont present any solution whatsoever.
well, first of all if we have EU supervised polls in the place we could actually see how far the split is among the people and how much of it is zeo style anti-Ukrainian propaganda. second of all, Ukraine has already experience with dealing with large minority areas like the Crimea where an autonomous Republic has existed since 1993. Third of all, as I've said earlier, in a number of states a large minority of people who feel closely to Russia manage to live just fine -- Kazakhstan has a bigger Russian population and has Russian as a national language and so do the Baltic Republics. Yet mysteriously they seem to get on okay.
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On February 23 2014 05:32 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:
Bunch of idiots wants to crush a statue of young Lenin in one of the biggest institutes of Kharkov, those statue completely belongs to institute. Also has nothing common with current state in country.
Lenin is a symbol of Russian imperialism and brutal repression of the Ukraine, his statues should have been taken down 20 years ago.
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On February 23 2014 05:31 DeepElemBlues wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2014 05:29 Sub40APM wrote:On February 23 2014 05:26 Ghanburighan wrote:
You guys are overestimating the split and underestimating the power of propaganda. Without a major part under Putin's control, the people have way more in common. Also, there is no talk of the Parliament overstepping its authority by the relevant FMs. When you say 'you guys' you are talking about a poster on this forum who gets away with slandering Ukrainians as fascists. I understand why Serbs are naturally loyal to Russians but some of these posts are ridiculous -- Photoshop of Hitler? He already did this crap once, posting pictures of guys with pistols that weren't even from the Maidan and weren't even current, they were from years ago. It's all about the narrative, the Maidan are Nazis because some fascist flunky in the Russian government said they wanted 'to go back to sucking Hitler's cock.' That's good enough for them, the Maidan must be Nazis, some actual fascist said so!
Yeap, now I remember. So it seems that his agenda here is to depict all anti-soviet and pro-western Ukrainians as nazis through manipulation, forgery and lie. Why the hell he gets away with this shit?
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On February 23 2014 05:37 DeepElemBlues wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2014 05:32 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:
Bunch of idiots wants to crush a statue of young Lenin in one of the biggest institutes of Kharkov, those statue completely belongs to institute. Also has nothing common with current state in country. Lenin is a symbol of Russian imperialism and brutal repression of the Ukraine, his statues should have been taken down 20 years ago.
Who are u to my country to decide what should be here?
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On February 23 2014 05:38 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2014 05:37 DeepElemBlues wrote:On February 23 2014 05:32 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:
Bunch of idiots wants to crush a statue of young Lenin in one of the biggest institutes of Kharkov, those statue completely belongs to institute. Also has nothing common with current state in country. Lenin is a symbol of Russian imperialism and brutal repression of the Ukraine, his statues should have been taken down 20 years ago. Who are u to my country to decide what should be here?
Who are you to your country to decide what should be there?
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On February 23 2014 05:31 DeepElemBlues wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2014 05:29 Sub40APM wrote:On February 23 2014 05:26 Ghanburighan wrote:
You guys are overestimating the split and underestimating the power of propaganda. Without a major part under Putin's control, the people have way more in common. Also, there is no talk of the Parliament overstepping its authority by the relevant FMs. When you say 'you guys' you are talking about a poster on this forum who gets away with slandering Ukrainians as fascists. I understand why Serbs are naturally loyal to Russians but some of these posts are ridiculous -- Photoshop of Hitler? He already did this crap once, posting pictures of guys with pistols that weren't even from the Maidan and weren't even current, they were from years ago. It's all about the narrative, the Maidan are Nazis because some fascist flunky in the Russian government said they wanted 'to go back to sucking Hitler's cock.' That's good enough for them, the Maidan must be Nazis, some actual fascist said so!
You mean this picture + Show Spoiler + from this article:
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/photography/2014/01/ukraine_protests_photographs_from_the_front_lines_of_kiev_s_crackdown.html
?
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On February 23 2014 05:39 Roman666 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2014 05:38 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On February 23 2014 05:37 DeepElemBlues wrote:On February 23 2014 05:32 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:
Bunch of idiots wants to crush a statue of young Lenin in one of the biggest institutes of Kharkov, those statue completely belongs to institute. Also has nothing common with current state in country. Lenin is a symbol of Russian imperialism and brutal repression of the Ukraine, his statues should have been taken down 20 years ago. Who are u to my country to decide what should be here? Who are you to your country to decide what should be there?
I'm a citizen, I do have a vote, and u're nothing more that random observer from agrarian country that becomes encumbrance for EU.
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On February 23 2014 05:37 DeepElemBlues wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2014 05:32 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:
Bunch of idiots wants to crush a statue of young Lenin in one of the biggest institutes of Kharkov, those statue completely belongs to institute. Also has nothing common with current state in country. Lenin is a symbol of Russian imperialism and brutal repression of the Ukraine, his statues should have been taken down 20 years ago.
Maybe, but Lenin was also the guy who before Soviet's captured Kiev turned Kharkiv into the capital of the Ukraine SSR and then the Communists spend billions to make it the industrial heartland of Ukraine. I think people who are busy pulling down statutes when real reforms havent even began are the kind of idiots Ukrainian reformists dont need on their side.
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On February 23 2014 05:38 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2014 05:37 DeepElemBlues wrote:On February 23 2014 05:32 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:
Bunch of idiots wants to crush a statue of young Lenin in one of the biggest institutes of Kharkov, those statue completely belongs to institute. Also has nothing common with current state in country. Lenin is a symbol of Russian imperialism and brutal repression of the Ukraine, his statues should have been taken down 20 years ago. Who are u to my country to decide what should be here?
I didn't decide then or now, Ukrainians did. I disagree with the decision then and agree with the one now.
Sorry this isn't about imperialist Westerners imposing their views on you, it's about imperialist Russians imposing their views on your country and you being just fine with it, but if the West voices an opinion, Katie bar the door shit just got real that is just so wrong. Now, Putin running your country with strings running right into Yanukovych's back, that's fine, but Westerners wanting the Ukraine to operate on the rule of law (no political prisoners, you don't have to bribe someone to actually get healthcare or other government assistance, etc.), now that is just an unacceptable imposition of their condescending Western worldview.
No they were different pictures. Everyone knows that after the first night the police attacked protesters started using guns.
Maybe, but Lenin was also the guy who before Soviet's captured Kiev turned Kharkiv into the capital of the Ukraine SSR and then the Communists spend billions to make it the industrial heartland of Ukraine. I think people who are busy pulling down statutes when real reforms havent even began are the kind of idiots Ukrainian reformists dont need on their side.
Why should I or anyone care that Lenin spent billions of rubles on Kharkov and the Don region to make it an industrial heartland? Do you know the history of that era past that it became an industrial heartland? Miners and factory workers were treated like slaves, there were strikes and riots continuously that were put down very violently by Red Guards and the Cheka, hundreds of thousands were arrested or murdered because they were 'bourgoisie' or counter-revolutionaries, opponents of the Bolsheviks were tortured to death very barbaric ways, food was stolen from the peasantry and many died from hunger (1929-1934 was not the only man (Bolshevist) made famine in the Ukraine) next to Lenin's barbarism his infrastructure development means jack shit. Hey Mao eventually built up an impressive industrial base as well, he only killed 30,000,000 people to do it.
Those idiots likely represent the mainstream of the Maidan movement, read some news articles it isn't just the far right that wants to continue to fight until Yanukovych is gone. 'Resignation or death' for Yanukovych is a very popular opinion right now.
One last word on Lenin: much of the early wealth of the United States was generated by slave labor (it wasn't until the 1830s-1840s that northern industry and finance started dominating the wealth creation of the US economy, before that the main economic forces in the US were New England fishing and southern slave-generated products like tobacco), we don't talk about the antebellum planter class aristocracy in the South like, "yeah, they owned slaves and believed in owning slaves and were racist as hell and condemned millions of people to live in slavery, but they helped build up the country!" It might be true, but it's also so irrelevant when placed next to the bad stuff they did that we don't qualify their badness with it. The same should go for Lenin imo.
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On February 23 2014 05:41 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2014 05:39 Roman666 wrote:On February 23 2014 05:38 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On February 23 2014 05:37 DeepElemBlues wrote:On February 23 2014 05:32 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:
Bunch of idiots wants to crush a statue of young Lenin in one of the biggest institutes of Kharkov, those statue completely belongs to institute. Also has nothing common with current state in country. Lenin is a symbol of Russian imperialism and brutal repression of the Ukraine, his statues should have been taken down 20 years ago. Who are u to my country to decide what should be here? Who are you to your country to decide what should be there? I'm a citizen, I do have a vote, and u're nothing more that random observer from agrarian country that becomes encumbrance for EU.
you realize that Poland has a higher industrial output than Ukraine, and there is like 20 million less of them right? Exporting useless equipment to Russia, the only economy its competitive in, doesnt make Ukraine an industrial country...
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On February 23 2014 05:43 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2014 05:41 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On February 23 2014 05:39 Roman666 wrote:On February 23 2014 05:38 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On February 23 2014 05:37 DeepElemBlues wrote:On February 23 2014 05:32 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:
Bunch of idiots wants to crush a statue of young Lenin in one of the biggest institutes of Kharkov, those statue completely belongs to institute. Also has nothing common with current state in country. Lenin is a symbol of Russian imperialism and brutal repression of the Ukraine, his statues should have been taken down 20 years ago. Who are u to my country to decide what should be here? Who are you to your country to decide what should be there? I'm a citizen, I do have a vote, and u're nothing more that random observer from agrarian country that becomes encumbrance for EU. you realize that Poland has a higher industrial output than Ukraine, and there is like 20 million less of them right? Exporting useless equipment to Russia, the only economy its competitive in, doesnt make Ukraine an industrial country...
Oh thank you for some lessons! And do u realize that we have no other places to sell our equipment, Russia is the only place, EU won't let our goodz to be in a markets across EU. At least we have pieces of industry, which somehow keeps our poor economy on board. Loosing all the trading deals with Russia means dowlfall of financial situation. I made a comparison in terms of Poland and EU, not Poland and Ukraine. Poland had a better overall economical situtation than Ukraine even before they stepped in Europe Union
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Ukrainian border guards prevent Vitaly Zakharchenko, Interior Minister in Yanukovych's government, from fleeing the country, Interfax Ukraine reports
hilarious.
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9071 Posts
On February 23 2014 05:35 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2014 05:28 disciple wrote:On February 23 2014 05:22 Sub40APM wrote:On February 23 2014 05:05 disciple wrote:
Democracy and votes are like no real solution to some political crisis. Forcing a policy on a minority that ,say, absolutely hates the idea simply cannot pass with the 'but people voted and you lost!' argument. I guess if Ukraine, or any other country for that matter, has such a core conflict between political views and direction it simply has to split so each side can govern itself as it sees fit. Majority vote just sucks when people are so polarized. How about we actually see how the votes go before we start partitioning Ukraine. Sure but a marginal victory for either side wont present any solution whatsoever. well, first of all if we have EU supervised polls in the place we could actually see how far the split is among the people and how much of it is zeo style anti-Ukrainian propaganda. second of all, Ukraine has already experience with dealing with large minority areas like the Crimea where an autonomous Republic has existed since 1993. Third of all, as I've said earlier, in a number of states a large minority of people who feel closely to Russia manage to live just fine -- Kazakhstan has a bigger Russian population and has Russian as a national language and so do the Baltic Republics. Yet mysteriously they seem to get on okay.
Correct me if I'm wrong but all Baltic Republics are in the EU right ? This is not about the importance of the Russian cultural influence but about political direction. Kazakhstan has no border to any EU country so it's not worth talking about it in this context. If anything in my humble opinion whoever has the clear pro-russia platform in the next election has the highest chance of winning cause the opposition like in most of those cases will be hardly unified as there's no one figure to present pro-EU policy in a way protesters will all stand behind while pro-russia as a direction is much more clear cut.
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On February 23 2014 05:42 DeepElemBlues wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2014 05:38 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On February 23 2014 05:37 DeepElemBlues wrote:On February 23 2014 05:32 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:
Bunch of idiots wants to crush a statue of young Lenin in one of the biggest institutes of Kharkov, those statue completely belongs to institute. Also has nothing common with current state in country. Lenin is a symbol of Russian imperialism and brutal repression of the Ukraine, his statues should have been taken down 20 years ago. Who are u to my country to decide what should be here? I didn't decide then or now, Ukrainians did. I disagree with the decision then and agree with the one now. Sorry this isn't about imperialist Westerners imposing their views on you, it's about imperialist Russians imposing their views on your country and you being just fine with it, but if the West voices an opinion, Katie bar the door shit just got real that is just so wrong. Now, Putin running your country with strings running right into Yanukovych's back, that's fine, but Westerners wanting the Ukraine to operate on the rule of law (no political prisoners, you don't have to bribe someone to actually get healthcare or other government assistance, etc.), now that is just an unacceptable imposition of their condescending Western worldview.
Its not about imperialism, a cyvil war knocking in my door, u think it's cool? I'm don't care who will gain a power, I wish it could be a good person and a good leader. But I don't wanna my government be changed that was. I there are no real difference between Yanukovich and Tymoshenko, both highly corrupted bad politicians, we're trading one stupid president to other paying lifes of innocents, crashing cities, and causing a possibilities of a cyvil war. Is it really worth anything?
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On February 23 2014 05:42 DeepElemBlues wrote:
Sorry this isn't about imperialist Westerners imposing their views on you, it's about imperialist Russians imposing their views on your country and you being just fine with it, but if the West voices an opinion, Katie bar the door shit just got real that is just so wrong. Now, Putin running your country with strings running right into Yanukovych's back, that's fine, but Westerners wanting the Ukraine to operate on the rule of law (no political prisoners, you don't have to bribe someone to actually get healthcare or other government assistance, etc.), now that is just an unacceptable imposition of their condescending Western worldview.
Do you really believe that? lol... I'm all for western Imperialism (well... it's to my own advantage), but let's not pretend the west being some glorious angels descending from heaven to save the poor Ukrainian souls devoured by the devil of Putin.
The only difference between western Imperialism and russian Imperialism to me is, that one is on my side, the other is not.
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On February 23 2014 05:41 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2014 05:39 Roman666 wrote:On February 23 2014 05:38 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:On February 23 2014 05:37 DeepElemBlues wrote:On February 23 2014 05:32 cSc.Dav1oN wrote:
Bunch of idiots wants to crush a statue of young Lenin in one of the biggest institutes of Kharkov, those statue completely belongs to institute. Also has nothing common with current state in country. Lenin is a symbol of Russian imperialism and brutal repression of the Ukraine, his statues should have been taken down 20 years ago. Who are u to my country to decide what should be here? Who are you to your country to decide what should be there? I'm a citizen, I do have a vote, and u're nothing more that random observer from agrarian country that becomes encumbrance for EU.
Then go there and do something about it if you do not like it. Then again I am a random observer from agrarian country that becomes encumbrance for EU, so what the fuck do I know.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ZGHeJyU.jpg)
