EPTAnd you claim "armories." So what's your evidence? The insurgents have captured police armories and public buildings. What military armories have been captured by the insurgents?
Exactly how are they getting these weapons?
Ukraine Crisis - Page 533
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marigoldran
219 Posts
And you claim "armories." So what's your evidence? The insurgents have captured police armories and public buildings. What military armories have been captured by the insurgents? Exactly how are they getting these weapons? | ||
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marigoldran
219 Posts
The events echo Russia’s annexation of Crimea in March, Ukraine’s government and its U.S. and European allies say President Vladimir Putin is stoking unrest that’s threatening to rip apart the former Soviet republic ahead of the presidential vote. “In our eastern regions we have an undeclared war,” acting Defense Minister Mykhaylo Koval told reporters in Kiev today. “Our neighboring country unleashed the war, sending special forces and saboteurs into our territory.” | ||
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Deleted User 183001
2939 Posts
On May 14 2014 12:50 marigoldran wrote: Once again: how many police stations contain RPGs and anti-air missile systems? And you claim "armories." So what's your evidence? The insurgents have captured police armories and public buildings. What military armories have been captured by the insurgents? Exactly how are they getting these weapons? Law enforcement agencies usually have grenade launchers (seems weird I know, but they do). As for old IGLAs? Likely from the defecting Ukrainian soldiers. They did bring a good amount of hardware with them. There you go. The separatists even have military armored vehicles!! Guess what, these didn't come from Russia. They got them from Ukr forces. lol Also, this is Ukraine we're talking about. It's disorganized and corrupt as fuck. It's easily one of the most corrupt countries in Europe. So nothing they've acquired comes as any surprise. Anyways, I'm still waiting for your evidence. You are the ONLY person in the world claiming all or any of their weapons come from Russia. On May 14 2014 12:58 marigoldran wrote: Here's another quote: The events echo Russia’s annexation of Crimea in March, Ukraine’s government and its U.S. and European allies say President Vladimir Putin is stoking unrest that’s threatening to rip apart the former Soviet republic ahead of the presidential vote. “In our eastern regions we have an undeclared war,” acting Defense Minister Mykhaylo Koval told reporters in Kiev today. “Our neighboring country unleashed the war, sending special forces and saboteurs into our territory.” I still don't see anything about providing arms and money to the separatists. | ||
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marigoldran
219 Posts
Second sentence: More speculation. "The defectors managed to walk off the military base with missile launchers when they defected." Sounds implausible. Military bases are heavily guarded. Not easy to walk off with that equipment. Where's your proof? Have journalists reported defectors walking off military bases with heavy equipment? Third sentence: Even more speculation. As I said, you have your opinion and I have mine. Unlike you, I am not a hypocrite. | ||
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Deleted User 183001
2939 Posts
On May 14 2014 13:03 marigoldran wrote: First sentence: speculation. Second sentence: More speculation. Third sentence: Even more speculation. As I said, you have your opinion and I have mine. Here's the difference: We do know the separatists have gotten their weapons from Ukraine security services and military forces. We have zero proof of them getting weapons from Russia. Not even Ukrainian propaganda is claiming the weapons come from Russia. Even they oppose your view. My case (and that of everyone else in this thread) is backed by proof and evidence. Yours? Not even the people who you'd most expect to agree with you, agree with you. Hope that clears things up. EDIT: Facts and on-the-ground reports on actual events are hypocrisy. I'll keep that in mind. | ||
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marigoldran
219 Posts
Not true. Quote: “In our eastern regions we have an undeclared war,” acting Defense Minister Mykhaylo Koval told reporters in Kiev today. “Our neighboring country unleashed the war, sending special forces and saboteurs into our territory.” Your so-called "facts" are rubbish. | ||
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marigoldran
219 Posts
"We do know the separatists have gotten their weapons from Ukraine security services and military forces." How do you know this? Where's your proof? EDIT: You said your arguments are backed by fact and proof. So please provide the proofs behind your categorical statements. | ||
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m4ini
4215 Posts
On May 14 2014 13:02 JudicatorHammurabi wrote: Law enforcement agencies usually have grenade launchers (seems weird I know, but they do). As for old IGLAs? Likely from the defecting Ukrainian soldiers. They did bring a good amount of hardware with them. There you go. The separatists even have military armored vehicles!! Guess what, these didn't come from Russia. They got them from Ukr forces. lol Also, this is Ukraine we're talking about. It's disorganized and corrupt as fuck. It's easily one of the most corrupt countries in Europe. So nothing they've acquired comes as any surprise. Anyways, I'm still waiting for your evidence. You are the ONLY person in the world claiming this. I still don't see anything about providing arms and money to the separatists. Just to briefly jump in for some food for thoughts.. About raiding police station. Now i don't like the telegraph, to make that clear - but the statement seems "normal". 400 Handguns, 20 automatic rifles. No grenade launchers, no IGLAs. Also, no. Law enforcement agencies as in riotpolice, SEK/SWAT, maybe. Normal police stations don't have grenade launchers, especially not with explosive ammunition. What riotpolice has is gas-throwers or whatever you wanna call them. About the IGLAs, well. There's only wiki i could cite, which sources a russian military journalist called Pavel Felgenhauer, saying that these are indeed russian IGLAs for a couple of reasons, but it seems windy so i'd rather not quote it, doesn't convince me. Now bed though. edit: one more small detail, the tanks/soldiers switching sides in sloviansk (i think it was), were not equipped with IGLAs. Only anti-air batallions are equipped with those - had a discussion a while back with someone, we looked thoroughly for the chance of IGLAs being on those "seized" tanks. | ||
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marigoldran
219 Posts
Anyone who claims they're "objective" and that their argument is "fact-based" in a highly charged, highly propagandized, and fluid crisis is lying through his teeth. There is no such thing as objectivity in the practice of politics. | ||
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marigoldran
219 Posts
Key quote: Adding to the fears of the Ukrainian-speaking population in this region is the announcement that the leadership of the pro-Russian separatists, who control much of Donetsk, has apparently now changed. At the news conference on Monday when the separatists declared independence, the then overall leader, Denis Pushulin was asked what his status was. He replied he was now just one of the leaders and the main commander was Igor Girkin, also known as "Strelkov" - meaning "the gunman". He is a much-feared separatist militia commander who is accused by the Ukrainian government and the European Union of being a Russian military intelligence officer. | ||
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sgtnoobkilla
Australia249 Posts
![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bm-RsxHCYAATdKO.jpg) On May 14 2014 05:25 m4ini wrote: Also, russia now retaliating/responding to sanctions with threats regarding the ISS. It's pretty much the only method Russia can use at the moment to "counter" the sanctions. They won't be playing the resource card against the rest of Europe...at least not yet: Rogozin Bans Use of Russian Engines for U.S. Launches; ISS Participation to Cease in 2020 Russian Deputy Prime Minister Dmitry Rogozin announced today that Russia will ban the use of RD-180 engines for use in launching U.S. military satellites. Presumably, this means the country will stop exporting the engines for use aboard ULA’s Atlas V launch vehicles. Rogozin also announced that Russia would end participation in the International Space Station in 2020, thus rejecting a NASA proposal to continue operations until at least 2024. He also said Russia would disable all 11 GPS stations in Russia as of June 1. Source | ||
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semantics
10040 Posts
Rocket engines stuff is new but it's not really a big hit to the US, that's just a boom for like rocketdyne. | ||
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Deleted User 137586
7859 Posts
(Those without access can use the google news method: just enter the title into google news and you should find the full article) *** More Russia doing nothing: P.S. I cannot believe you filled 4 pages arguing about sanctions and terrorism without once referencing the actual justification for the sanctions or any of the applicable definitions for terrorism, despite the fact that those have been posted in the thread already. | ||
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marigoldran
219 Posts
And sanctions: What sanctions? I don't see any sanctions. Do you? (Yet.) | ||
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mijagi182
Poland797 Posts
On May 13 2014 21:43 Ghanburighan wrote: They are almost the same, actually. Russia right on our heels. *** ^ Has it been a week already, *sigh*. It was actually nice and constructive here for a while. Interesting. Is this data false or you declined 40% since 2013? http://pl.tradingeconomics.com/estonia/gdp-per-capita http://pl.tradingeconomics.com/russia/gdp-per-capita | ||
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PaleMan
Russian Federation1953 Posts
no work, most of young ppl go to Poland, England etc. but Ghan will never admit it - cause its FREEDOM and stuff | ||
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Deleted User 183001
2939 Posts
On May 14 2014 17:22 mijagi182 wrote: Interesting. Is this data false or you declined 40% since 2013? http://pl.tradingeconomics.com/estonia/gdp-per-capita http://pl.tradingeconomics.com/russia/gdp-per-capita Maybe he's looking at World Bank figures, where Russian GDP (PPP) per capita is $23.5k? On May 14 2014 17:55 PaleMan wrote: those baltic states are living like we in Russia used to live in 90s - bad no work, most of young ppl go to Poland, England etc. but Ghan will never admit it - cause its FREEDOM and stuff Actually, the Baltics during the 1990s weren't in a dystopian sci-fi world like Russia was in the 1990s. Baltic states were never living like Russians in the 1990s. The advantage of the Baltic states is that they're very small countries with small populations. It makes it extremely easy to manage, especially crises, when compared to a giant tundra country like Russia during the depression decade. Also, the Baltic states didn't have Yeltsin. How that guy wasn't assassinated in 1992 is beyond my understanding. But no, Baltic folks are doing fine apparently. They have law and order, and economic growth, and low murder/drug rates, all things Russia did not have at all in the 1990s. Focus on fixing your own country. It's a better way to spend your energy. Take this as friendly advice. | ||
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PaleMan
Russian Federation1953 Posts
Estonia and Lithuania are starving, Latvia does a little bit better | ||
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Roman666
Poland1440 Posts
On May 14 2014 18:59 PaleMan wrote: Habibi, your propaganda does not worl on ppl who visited Baltic states and have friends there (like me) Estonia and Lithuania are starving, Latvia does a little bit better What? Not sure if serious, I don't even... | ||
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Zetter
Germany629 Posts
On May 14 2014 18:59 PaleMan wrote: Habibi, your propaganda does not worl on ppl who visited Baltic states and have friends there (like me) Estonia and Lithuania are starving, Latvia does a little bit better Latvia might not be as rich as Germany, but the last time I was there, it was in a good economic state and people were doing fine. Estonia is even doing better. My friends in Latvia and Estonia can't complain, though they're always a little surprised at how much money we earn in the west. But of course living in Latvia or Estonia is cheaper. Maybe you should try visiting the baltic again. | ||
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