Either she's the most successful troll ever and I've wasted time making the video, or she's dead serious about the nonsense that comes out of her mouth. In a nutshell, she complains about classic hits like Donkey Kong, Mario Brothers, Zelda, and many more beloved titles.
Her point I believe is that it's wrong for games to have "Save the princess" missions/quests because it's sexist and it makes women look weak and frail. She even has the arrogance to make the bold claim that women are not physically weaker then men. So by her broken logic, all professional sports are also sexist and both women and men should be allowed to play together in the NFL.
She completely overlooks the fact that she mainly accuses 8-bit games that barely have the computer power to have a story line to begin with. And if that isn't bad enough, she has comments and ratings disabled for her video so viewers are powerless to correct her on her bias statements. She spent a lot of resources on making the video as flashy and high production quality as possible so maybe comments are disabled because her entire video is just an overrated disaster that would get flooded with hateful comments and 95% of the ratings would most likely be thumbs down.
comments are disabled on videos like these, the most obvious parallel being anita sarkeesian's videos, because people start frothing at the mouth whenever people make harmless, broad-focused and again obvious videos in the feminist mode of criticism about how uniformly patriarchial video games and their marketing are.
physical capabilities are another argument entirely, but I find it telling that you can't muster the barebones framework of an argument against the "save the princess" tropes you seem to be arguing (for?).
edit: you know what else is telling? using the word "feminist" in the thread title. I sometimes wonder if you're allowed to inhabit a grey area when it comes to this discussion; either you're a feminazi or a patriarchy supporter.
Imo "save the Princess" games ARE very sexist. But your OP is lacking so much that the thread won't stay up very long. Make a better OP with more content than just one Youtube Video you raged about.
On April 07 2013 12:22 Nore wrote: Isn't the woman the weakness of the man whom is trying to save her ? meaning the man is the one portrayed as the weaker sex ?
do you find the reduction of a woman - a person - to being "the weakness of a man" problematic?
that "blog" by destiny..... as he makes analogies like "attacking with baneling ling is like raping a woman. you see the lings are the arms that holds her down and the banelings explode right into her" (paraphrasing)
I do, however, feel like rescue the princess games are fine.. In the last 2000 years of history, woman have been made to seem more "gentle".. and perhaps they are somewhat physically more "fragile" than men.. however, destiny is not the person to bring up in this type of discussion... who cares about his opinion anyways? really?
Of course. Why would anyone want to inform themselves of different opinions? That's crazy talk.
different opinions from notable closet racist/sexist destiny, whose opinions on sarkeesian's last video I was subjected to as I watched him play LoL on the day it came out? please don't waste your time.
I have no problem with people submitting opinions, but I don't really feel like destiny's body of work on the subject is worthy of being cited.
I've seen a few of her videos in the past, and they typically make me shake my head. However, I don't really buy the whole 'primitive hardware = 'save the princess' story line crap. There are many examples of fun, meaningful story lines in classic games.
The theme in video games is no different than formulaic movies. They keep producing them because they sell.
On April 07 2013 12:19 MountainDewJunkie wrote: This is a youtube OP. BOO!
Quoted for truth D:<
Also this is not nearly worth a thread, and it's a terrible thread at that. Complain about this to your friends who are able to suffer you, not TL general.
Oh, and lol at games not having enough computational power to carry a storyline or whatever was randomly thrown in there. Like computing power has anything to do with a storyline. If you have moving pictures, text, and music, you're set. Go read a book.
that "blog" by destiny..... as he makes analogies like "attacking with baneling ling is like raping a woman. you see the lings are the arms that holds her down and the banelings explode right into her" (paraphrasing)
Yea, except for the fact that the only time he specifies gender in that analogy was he said,"inserting your self into his body".
If your gonna hate destiny at least don't be bad at it
Feminist theory is pretty ridiculous itself, in general. I mean they just randomly make the proclamation that because a female is a passive character in one instance of a story, shes "being acted upon" and is therefore an object. OR! Alternative, crazy hypothesis--- shes a person whos passive [captured, etc]. Theres literally no reason to make the object claim, it just flies in from left field.
On April 07 2013 12:31 LainRivers wrote: The problem is people refuse to acknowledge biology or 'This is how humans fucking are by nature get over it'.
I'm all for better/'equal' rights.
I'm not all for losing common sense/biologically admitting what we are and how we (most likely) will always be.
I'm going to (bravely) assume this is about the physical capability argument and not the general question of increasing female agency in most forms of media narrative.
On April 07 2013 12:16 Fenrax wrote: Imo "save the Princess" games ARE very sexist. But your OP is lacking so much that the thread won't stay up very long. Make a better OP with more content than just one Youtube Video you raged about.
everything is racist and sexist if you just look hard enough to find it.
As far as I can tell, your OP consists mainly of two parts.
In part 1, you paraphrase what she is trying to say.
In part 2, you emphasize that you disagree with what she is saying.
Where is part 3 where you break down what she is saying and logically refute it, instead of assuming that we all agree with you about women being fundamentally weaker than men?
I find it incredibly amusing how Destiny manages to convey an immense lack of maturity in casual interactions on stream but can actually make some really good, respectable arguments when he decides to sit down and can the jokes.
On April 07 2013 12:31 LainRivers wrote: The problem is people refuse to acknowledge biology or 'This is how humans fucking are by nature get over it'.
I'm all for better/'equal' rights.
I'm not all for losing common sense/biologically admitting what we are and how we (most likely) will always be.
There is a problem with your argument, though: the line between biology and society is absurdly thin. The environment around you, especially the human society around you, can weave ideas and thoughts into your head with an almost impossible amount of subtlety, to the point where it almost seems as if certain ideas or thoughts are completely natural and thus biological. Furthermore, these thoughts and ideas are buried impossibly deep within your subconscious and are thus almost impossible to consciously "discover." These factors mean that one can't simply dismiss certain ideas or thoughts as natural components of the human brain, since it is very possible that they are ideas planted in your head by the environment around you and you may never know that is the case.
On April 07 2013 12:31 LainRivers wrote: The problem is people refuse to acknowledge biology or 'This is how humans fucking are by nature get over it'.
I'm all for better/'equal' rights.
I'm not all for losing common sense/biologically admitting what we are and how we (most likely) will always be.
I'm going to (bravely) assume this is about the physical capability argument and not the general question of increasing female agency in most forms of media narrative.
"common sense" is meaningless in this context.
Nope, males are and always will be the dominant sex (not 'better' or 'worse', but dominant.) Not only are we dominant due to our biology (stronger + dominant sex organ = no shit society ended up this way.)
Women are the child bearers, they are seen as 'passive' (not 'better' or 'worse', but passive). All of this is perfectly justified. Do I think all rights (men and women) are perfect, or that society isn't bias? Absolutely not, but people need to cut the shit.
Sure, these days society is no longer pressed to survive and we have adapted quite well to technological advancements. However, you cannot just refuse to acknowledge the obvious. Just because society is changing doesn't mean we are changing biologically/physiologically (in drastic ways).
On April 07 2013 12:16 Fenrax wrote: Imo "save the Princess" games ARE very sexist. But your OP is lacking so much that the thread won't stay up very long. Make a better OP with more content than just one Youtube Video you raged about.
everything is racist and sexist if you just look hard enough to find it.
This is correct. Literary criticism as a great example. People will see what they want to see, and find meaning in that which doesn't mean anything.
EDIT: PS. After reading your posts I'm not going to bother updating posts or checking the thread. lol
Lol. The whole argument about primitive hardware only really holds on the NES. Beyond that the video game market was an established entity with rules and a frame of reference. The market consisted of almost purely males, and previous games had a lot of 1D save the princess cliches. So if your goal is to make money what sounds better: do what worked in the past, or make a game where guys and boys play as a girl saving a guy? It's common sense from any development or publishing perspective on which route to take.
I find it incredibly amusing how Destiny manages to convey an immense lack of maturity in casual interactions on stream but can actually make some really good, respectable arguments when he decides to sit down and can the jokes.
just browsing through since this is almost inevitably going to turn into a destiny thread because it has nothing else to discuss, I had to stop reading after two pages. he clearly has either no patience for or no experience with the feminist perspective, which is okay if you're not doing a write-up responding to a series of videos composed/arguing from the feminist perspective.
he had the same problems when I was listening in real time re: failing to contextualize the argument. it's not just about video games, it's about the greater society, so when he goes through it taking the greater scope to task for not mattering or being serious enough, it's a failure on every level to engage with the ideas.
On April 07 2013 12:46 LainRivers wrote:
Nope, males are and always will be the dominant sex (not 'better' or 'worse', but dominant.) Not only are we dominant due to our biology (stronger + dominant sex organ = no shit society ended up this way.)
Women are the child bearers, they are seen as 'passive' (not 'better' or 'worse', but passive). All of this is perfectly justified. Do I think all rights (men and women) are perfect, or that society isn't bias? Absolutely not, but people need to cut the shit.
Sure, these days society is no longer pressed to survive and we have adapted quite well to technological advancements. However, you cannot just refuse to acknowledge the obvious. Just because society is changing doesn't mean we are changing biologically/physiologically (in drastic ways).
"dominant sex organ"? do you not understand how that begs the question and is laughable?
I don't know how to engage this without being smug and dismissive, so I'm going to smugly dismiss this entirely.
People just need to realize, some people are not meant for TV and can't talk without being off the cuff and self censor. Unfortunately the internet has democratized media so anyone can do it. For example, what if Roger Ebert had his own movie stream and said Michael Bay is a cocksucker? Or he wants to rape Angelina Jolie in his basement?
People would really hate Roger Ebert maybe he wouldn't have become so beloved.
Destiny is worthy of writing for IGN or other insert video game editorial here. If you can actually get over all the BM he says in streams he can be a very balanced but also very logical and sensical writer with many well articulated ideas. He arguably influenced Blizzard to make very major changes in its game and tournament structure with his Reddit post.
Maybe in a different world a guy like Destiny could be a lot more loved because he can write pretty well.
I sort of feel bad for a lot of women because of the feminist movement. I have worked some very physically demanding jobs, and women simply could not cope. One of them was a corrugated plant, and even a butch lesbian employee who joined the same time as I did had to quit less than a week in. In the military, we were each given an amount of orders to pick, and the women were always asking for help adding to the workload for the rest of us (the ones who weren't on maternity leave lol). Just my experiences which proves nothing, I know.
On April 07 2013 12:48 DeathProfessor wrote: People just need to realize, some people are not meant for TV and can't talk without being off the cuff and self censor. Unfortunately the internet has democratized media so anyone can do it. For example, what if Roger Ebert had his own movie stream and said Michael Bay is a cocksucker? Or he wants to rape Angelina Jolie in his basement?
People would really hate Roger Ebert maybe he wouldn't have become so beloved.
Destiny is worthy of writing for IGN or other insert video game editorial here. If you can actually get over all the BM he says in streams he can be a very balanced but also very logical and sensical writer with many well articulated ideas. He arguably influenced Blizzard to make very major changes in its game and tournament structure with his Reddit post.
Maybe in a different world a guy like Destiny could be a lot more loved because he can write pretty well.
all that really does is implicitly stain the name of video game journalism, which hardly needs any blackening.
I like how you randomly insult a recently deceased pillar of media criticism by comparative analogy, too. class act you have.
I find it incredibly amusing how Destiny manages to convey an immense lack of maturity in casual interactions on stream but can actually make some really good, respectable arguments when he decides to sit down and can the jokes.
just browsing through since this is almost inevitably going to turn into a destiny thread because it has nothing else to discuss, I had to stop reading after two pages. he clearly has either no patience for or no experience with the feminist perspective, which is okay if you're not doing a write-up responding to a series of videos composed/arguing from the feminist perspective.
he had the same problems when I was listening in real time re: failing to contextualize the argument. it's not just about video games, it's about the greater society, so when he goes through it taking the greater scope to task for not mattering or being serious enough, it's a failure on every level to engage with the ideas.
Nope, males are and always will be the dominant sex (not 'better' or 'worse', but dominant.) Not only are we dominant due to our biology (stronger + dominant sex organ = no shit society ended up this way.)
Women are the child bearers, they are seen as 'passive' (not 'better' or 'worse', but passive). All of this is perfectly justified. Do I think all rights (men and women) are perfect, or that society isn't bias? Absolutely not, but people need to cut the shit.
Sure, these days society is no longer pressed to survive and we have adapted quite well to technological advancements. However, you cannot just refuse to acknowledge the obvious. Just because society is changing doesn't mean we are changing biologically/physiologically (in drastic ways).
"dominant sex organ"? do you not understand how that begs the question and is laughable?
I don't know how to engage this without being smug and dismissive, so I'm going to smugly dismiss this entirely.
K lol just this one because you happened to post before I left. Yes, dominant sex organ. The one that goes into the other (and they happen to be stronger too, meaning you know what). Rape is absolutely horrible and it disgusts me in this day and age, but you have to realize from an evolutionary standpoint, the mindsets we have are there for a reason.
All throughout the origin of humans have these traits been apparent, and it's likely the mindset they create always will be as well.
Men and Women are different. Distinction is not the same as discrimination.
Feminists really don't help themselves sometimes by focusing on such small, irrelevant issues sometimes. That or be unnecessarily adversarial when it comes to disagreements on approaching the issues that are pretty damn important, even the minutiae.
They also have an issue in that, 'feminism' is such a broad, broad, broad term and has many adherents with differing ethos' and methodologies.
I have long felt that feminism needs to die as a term, and be redefined into specific sub-categories. It's too poisonous a term, and this is coming from somebody who is very much a 'fellow traveller'.
Some feminists are dumb, probably the same proportion as people who are dumb in the general population. If you'd like a meaningful discussion of feminism then make a topic which doesn't present it at its dumbest and we'll go from there.
EPT
