EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 9741
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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15743 Posts
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
On January 20 2018 14:24 Mohdoo wrote: So which of the Democrat controlled branches of our government are responsible for this? Whichever one was capable of holding anything hostage. | ||
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Introvert
United States5001 Posts
Shows how intellectually bankrupt Democrats are on shutdown politics. Republicans blamed their own party last time. Edit: also remember when everyone was clutching their pearls because they thought McConnell was going to get rid of the filibuster entirely last year? LOL. No sense. | ||
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TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
On January 20 2018 14:21 NewSunshine wrote: Spin this. Something something illegal immigrants something something spending increases something something On January 20 2018 13:45 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote: Carter years are a bit different because before 1981 the government didn't actually shut down Yep, they didn't have the resolutions in place to force a shutdown like they do today so government functions didn't actually shut down. | ||
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
On January 20 2018 14:27 Introvert wrote: I find it fascinating that in 2013 it was the minority party's fault but this time we all play dumb and pretend the filibuster doesn't exist. Especially funny since Schumer objected to the motion for unanimous consent to move to a vote. Shows how intellectually bankrupt Democrats are on shutdown politics. Republicans blamed their own party last time. Are you really about to pretend that with Republicans in control of the House, the Senate, and the White House, the Democrats are to blame in any meaningful way? Your boys did this. Own it and hold them accountable. | ||
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Leporello
United States2845 Posts
Make CHIP your issue, and watch the history of its expiration become a public discussion. You'll be twisting yourself into a pretzel. We can talk about how you and your party could manage to cut taxes on billionaire-inheritances, without any Democrat help, use backdoor provisions to destroy the Affordable Care Act, but for some reason when it comes to CHIP... it's, uh, the Democrats fault. Okay! Good luck with that! Kudos to the Democrats for not caving. The GOP Senate didn't even secure their own 51 votes. Dems have no need to throw these sociopaths a lifeline. | ||
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Introvert
United States5001 Posts
On January 20 2018 14:29 NewSunshine wrote: Are you really about to pretend that with Republicans in control of the House, the Senate, and the White House, the Democrats are to blame in any meaningful way? Your boys did this. Own it and hold them accountable. Yep! One party suggested a clean bill, the other ensured it required 60 votes then didn't grant them. I'm making actual arguments while everyone here is being intellectually dishonest to an amazing extent and making vague arguments about "controlling all branches." In previous years we would have heard about how the minority party has to make sacrifices and accept that they don't run it all. Now, that argument has disappeared. It has to be dishonesty, no one in this thread is stupid enough to try and argue it's any different, so they don't. So have fun, the primaries will be so much more boring. | ||
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
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TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
On January 20 2018 14:33 Introvert wrote: Yep! One party suggested a clean bill, the other ensured it required 60 votes then didn't grant them. I'm making actual arguments while everyone here is being intellectually dishonest to an amazing extent and making vague arguments about "controlling all branches." In previous years we would have heard about how the minority party has to make sacrifices and accept that they don't run it all. Now, that argument has disappeared. It has to be dishonesty, no one in this thread is stupid enough to try and argue it's any different, so they don't. So have fun, the primaries will be so much more boring. No, one party suggested kicking the can down the road another month and then enough of its own members in the Senate decided that was a shit idea that they couldn't even scrape together 50 votes from their own party and had 5 defectors (which allowed Dems in Trump zones to defect for optics). All after Trump blew up a deal that had both House and Senate backing. | ||
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Introvert
United States5001 Posts
On January 20 2018 14:34 NewSunshine wrote: They managed to show just how low they're willing to go on all of these issues, holding CHIP hostage in order to further their anti-immigrant agenda. Gotta push those pro-life family values. Seriously, if at this point you're still willing to shill for them, do please go away until you've taken the time to realize: there is no spinning or deflecting of this. There is no excuse. Get over it. Nobody has addressed anything I posted earlier, we are just going in circles. If you are going to pretend that the filibuster is something the GOP should have ignored, then there is nothing more to see. I expected usual partisanship on this issue, but the dishonesty in this thread exceeded even my expectations. Keep it up. On January 20 2018 14:35 TheTenthDoc wrote: No, one party suggested kicking the can down the road another month and then enough of its own members in the Senate decided that was a shit idea that they couldn't even scrape together 50 votes from their own party and had 5 defectors (which allowed Dems in Trump zones to defect for optics). We already went over it, if Schumer believed they didn't have 50 he could have allowed a vote. And in the end they got 50. But this is it for me tonight, this thread has exceeded my wildest dreams. | ||
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
On January 20 2018 14:36 Introvert wrote: Nobody has addressed anything I posted earlier, we are just going in circles. If you are going to pretend that the filibuster is something the GOP should have ignored, then there is nothing more to see. I expected usual partisanship on this issue, but the dishonesty in this thread exceeded even my expectations. Keep it up. Partisanship? Seriously, the projection here is suffocating. I have neither need nor desire to address this blatant drivel. Continue making excuses for a party that can't get shit done. Whatever makes you feel better. Same for anyone else who feels the same. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On January 20 2018 14:33 Introvert wrote: Yep! One party suggested a clean bill, the other ensured it required 60 votes then didn't grant them. I'm making actual arguments while everyone here is being intellectually dishonest to an amazing extent and making vague arguments about "controlling all branches." In previous years we would have heard about how the minority party has to make sacrifices and accept that they don't run it all. Now, that argument has disappeared. It has to be dishonesty, no one in this thread is stupid enough to try and argue it's any different, so they don't. So have fun, the primaries will be so much more boring. One thing is consistent, you complained then about having to work with democrats and you complain now about having to work with democrats. Continue to wish for the fictional government without democrats. Also, I’ll need to see the votes, but it doesn’t sound like it was along party lines on either side. You might need to consider that the leadership put forth shit bills that were never going to get 60 votes. 2018, the year when the conservatives realize that being the party of “no” only gets you so far. | ||
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TheTenthDoc
United States9561 Posts
On January 20 2018 14:36 Introvert wrote: Nobody has addressed anything I posted earlier, we are just going in circles. If you are going to pretend that the filibuster is something the GOP should have ignored, then there is nothing more to see. I expected usual partisanship on this issue, but the dishonesty in this thread exceeded even my expectations. Keep it up. We already went over it, if Schumer believed they didn't have 50 he could have allowed a vote. But this is it for me tonight, this thread has exceeded my wildest dreams. And if McConnell had believed they had 50 he wouldn't have voted no on the motion to take it to a vote. Edit: I guess it was procedural so it can be brought up later? But I really think you are overrating McConnell's ability to get 50 votes here. | ||
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Doodsmack
United States7224 Posts
On January 20 2018 13:37 Danglars wrote: We're for transparency, except if it's on the FISA warrant used against Trump, in which case it's schemes by the Russians. Okay. I'll take the FISA application itself. Show me Hillary opposition research wasn't used to justify wiretaps on an American citizen. The contents of the Nunes dossier are pretty much as presumptively false as the contents of the Steele dossier. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On January 20 2018 14:48 Doodsmack wrote: The contents of the Nunes dossier are pretty much as presumptively false as the contents of the Steele dossier. HE means the Republican paid or Steele dossier. Also the FBI had also ready picked up people from Trumps camp talking to the Russians because, you know, we spy the Russians. | ||
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Introvert
United States5001 Posts
On January 20 2018 14:53 Plansix wrote: HE means the Republican paid or Steele dossier. Also the FBI had also ready picked up people from Trumps camp talking to the Russians because, you know, we spy the Russians. By the time Steele got involved it was the Democrat dossier and the publication that started the oppo research says none of the info in the dossier was there when they ended their involvement. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16124 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On January 20 2018 14:57 Introvert wrote: By the time Steele got involved it was the Democrat dossier and the publication that started the oppo research says none of the info in the dossier was there when they ended their involvement. Yes, because he brought it to the FBI, who said, “oh we are aware.” It wasn’t used to justify anything that wasn’t already in motion. Flynn and Mr Model UN are not smart people. They got picked up doing making shady calls to known Russian government officials all on their own. That is where the conspiracy theory falls apart, because everyone in Trumps camp is fucking moron. | ||
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Leporello
United States2845 Posts
Keep in mind a person can be working full-time and still be below poverty, and thus deported under this not-so-DACA law. Kudos to the Dems for not letting The Turtle Joker use funding for sick children as a bargaining tool, to vote for what is, unsurprisingly, a garbage bill, that even the 51 GOP Senators couldn't entirely bring themselves to vote for. Just laugh at the crocodile tears, from all the people who gave no shits about CHIP until today, when they cynically planned on using it as leverage. Take a look at the polls, if you're not too busy manufacturing outrage. GOP needs to reevaluate its strategies. It's time for GOP to start behaving in good faith -- if they're going to survive Trump at all. You want to give low-income children health-subsidies? Then do it. Don't pass it off to be used as a tool to recruit Democrats into voting on otherwise heinous legislation. CHIP expired 4 months ago. Everyone knows the GOP did nothing about it. They had bigger concerns: tax-cuts for billionaires. They passed that crap just fine, all on their own, without even discussing it with the Democrats. They could have passed CHIP anytime they wanted to. They wanted to use it, instead. They wanted us to give them something for it, for a Children's Health Insurance Program... The GOP is not going to convince anyone on this shit. Some people will cry for "bipartisanship". But anyone who follows Washington at all knows bipartisanship with people like McConnell doesn't actually exist and never will. Ask Merrick Garland. The only way we move towards actual bipartisanship is to end the hyper-partisan hyper-hypocritical McConnell-era. Honestly, telling people to "choose" between DACA children and CHIP children... How obliviously ugly. | ||
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Introvert
United States5001 Posts
On January 20 2018 15:03 Plansix wrote: Yes, because he brought it to the FBI, who said, “oh we are aware.” It wasn’t used to justify anything that wasn’t already in motion. Flynn and Mr Model UN are not smart people. They got picked up doing making shady calls to known Russian government officials all on their own. That is where the conspiracy theory falls apart, because everyone in Trumps camp is fucking moron. Point is that it isn't a GOP based piece, which is apparently very hard for some to understand. | ||
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