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On December 07 2017 03:48 KwarK wrote: Two people both want to live on the same land. Both of them were born there. Both of them are angry.
Because both of them insist god himself promised them said land...and that's insane.
They'd still be mad about it if they were atheists. Ethnic cleansing is just one of those things that people hold grudges over.
There's a Northern Irish joke that goes
A journalist, researching for an article on the complex political situation in Northern Ireland, was in a pub in a war-torn area of Belfast. One of his potential informants leaned over his pint of Guinness and suspiciously cross-examined the journalist: "Are you a Catholic or a Protestant?" the Irishman asked. "Neither," replied the journalist; "I'm an atheist."
The Irishman, not content with this answer, put a further question: "Ah, but are you a Catholic atheist or a Protestant atheist?"
The CEO of one of the nation’s largest coal companies ripped the Senate tax-reform bill, saying late changes to the bill would “wipe out” coal mining jobs.
Robert Murray, founder and CEO of Murray Energy, said Tuesday that the tax hike on coal mining firms that would result from the changes would cancel out progress that President Trump has made on reviving the coal industry, according to CNN.
“We won’t have enough cash flow to exist,” Murray told CNNMoney. “This wipes out everything that President Trump has done for coal.”
The Senate amended its version of the bill last Friday to keep the alternative minimum tax for businesses in order to pay for other changes to the bill — including a more generous deduction for pass-through businesses and the allowance of a property tax deduction for individuals of up to $10,000.
But keeping the alternative minimum tax, and the imposition of new limits on the interest deductions that businesses can mark off, would cost Murray Energy $60 million in taxes, Murray told CNN.
The fight over the alternative minimum tax will be an issue in the House–Senate conference. The House bill repeals the tax.
Trump campaigned heavily on revitalizing the coal industry in the U.S. and has made moves to roll back regulations, particularly Obama-era rules related to climate change, that the coal industry has opposed.
Murray has been supportive of Trump’s efforts, telling CNN, “I know he cares about the coal miners and their jobs.” Murray held a fundraiser for Trump in June 2016.
On December 07 2017 03:48 KwarK wrote: Two people both want to live on the same land. Both of them were born there. Both of them are angry.
Because both of them insist god himself promised them said land...and that's insane.
Or a good chunk of human history. The Jews moved to Israel because they didn’t want to be in Europe anymore and were willing to fight to make a home there. The Palestinians were just there under British rule. Then the British decided to solve the problem by creating one of the worst divisions of land and boarders in human history. They should get a prize. It may be one of the worst post WW2 fuck ups by one of the Allies.
We might be second with North Korea, but a full scale war with China was a pretty good reason not to continue that fight.
The CEO of one of the nation’s largest coal companies ripped the Senate tax-reform bill, saying late changes to the bill would “wipe out” coal mining jobs.
Robert Murray, founder and CEO of Murray Energy, said Tuesday that the tax hike on coal mining firms that would result from the changes would cancel out progress that President Trump has made on reviving the coal industry, according to CNN.
“We won’t have enough cash flow to exist,” Murray told CNNMoney. “This wipes out everything that President Trump has done for coal.”
The Senate amended its version of the bill last Friday to keep the alternative minimum tax for businesses in order to pay for other changes to the bill — including a more generous deduction for pass-through businesses and the allowance of a property tax deduction for individuals of up to $10,000.
But keeping the alternative minimum tax, and the imposition of new limits on the interest deductions that businesses can mark off, would cost Murray Energy $60 million in taxes, Murray told CNN.
The fight over the alternative minimum tax will be an issue in the House–Senate conference. The House bill repeals the tax.
Trump campaigned heavily on revitalizing the coal industry in the U.S. and has made moves to roll back regulations, particularly Obama-era rules related to climate change, that the coal industry has opposed.
Murray has been supportive of Trump’s efforts, telling CNN, “I know he cares about the coal miners and their jobs.” Murray held a fundraiser for Trump in June 2016.
What if they pass this shotgun wedding of a tax bill and it wipes out a bunch of struggling industries because they didn’t hold public hearings or let anyone read it?
What if it kills a bunch of jobs before it has a chance to make any jobs?
On December 07 2017 02:55 ticklishmusic wrote: I'm confused because neither Mohdoo nor I ever said anything about relocating all the Palestinians, commuting ethnic cleansing or saying they don't get a state or self-determination. They should, but it just isn't going to be the one they are today asking for and they need to accept that. It fucking sucks, 100%. It might be smaller, there might be some sort of Israeli or multinational security presence, there might need to be disarmament, etc. but there is a solution there. If they get that it is at least a step towards a functioning, self-governing Palestinian state. Afterwards there can incrementally improve as trust is built and Israelis and Palestinians (hopefully) realize that recognizing Palestine won't result in full blown civil war.
would you have said analogous things to gandhi or the people of east timor?
you would think that after 2016 and 2017 these "its never gonna happen!" or "theres no alternative!" arguments would have lost some of their hold over people. otoh its mostly you and mohdoo, both known for your (cynical?) support of the status quo (hillary, healthcare, etc), have taken this tack regarding palestine. i get the feeling similar comments would have been made a mere several months ago about the prospects of a sea change in "rape culture" prior to #metoo.
I hope all these La fires dont affect Eric Garcetti's chance's at a presidential bid if he chooses to do so, how is he supposed to the santa ana winds from blowing?
On December 07 2017 02:25 Danglars wrote: It’s a pretty easy case of taking the high ground when the opponents have (mostly) vacated it.
Also, “Democrats need to fight back dirty,” by supporting a sexual harasser against a molestor of young teenagers is bringing whole new depths to that term. It’s like the Moore logic crew took over some Democrats too.
But what is the benefit? Not a single con will refuse to vote for Moore simply because he is a pedophile. Not a single con will change sides just because they see one side doesn't tolerate sexual assault or pedophilia. Will democrats stop voting if they see their side trying to be as dirty as the cons? I guess the issue really is that a lot of democrat voters get whiny and refuse to vote when thr parry isn't perfect, meanwhile the cons always vote for their "person" even when they are a pedophile or rapist.
Uhh tar the entirety of Republican candidates in 2018 by showing the mismatch? The elections are less than a year away.
And what will that do? 1/3 of people voting for moore said they were MORE LIKELY to vote for him AFTER the accusations (with proof) that he is a pedophile. You think a little thing like pointing out that their party condones rape and pedophilia while the other party doesn't will stop the "derp stick it to the libruhls" types?
Really the only benefit I can see here is what nebuchad said, in that the voting bases are different, and likely democrats will get discouraged and not vote if the democrat party doesn't take the high road. Meanwhile the cons seem to cheer for their party to be as lowly vile and despicable as humanly possible.
I can’t believe you’re honestly implying Alabama’s response to Moore is just going to be repeated in races across the country. You’re too cynical for words.
then you're dense. the existence of trump (as well as a whole lot of other cases, plus the entirety of research in political science) quite clearly proves that similar things would occur elsewhere throughout the country if similar situations arose.
Good thing Pelosi and Schumer have political advisors that aren’t as clueless or shortsighted as you. Trump gets elected and then you call me dense to suggest tight national races are very much impacted by Moore. It was Trump-Clinton ... the Dems can’t be so pitifully stupid to run pathetic candidates down every race.
On December 07 2017 04:10 GreenHorizons wrote: Danglars, you got any insight as to how Trump's less Jew friendly supporters reconcile with his staunchly pro Israel supporters?
That's been something that's puzzled me for a while so I'm curious how/if this impacted it significantly and just generally how that works?
They hate Palestinians worse. Israelis don't burn American flags as much and you're less likely to catch groups of them cheering after the September 11th terrorist attacks.
I never thought the anti-semitism Jewish-bankers-control-the-media-and-government made sense in the first place, though.
Even less so the stupid college protesters that thought Shapiro, a yarmulke-wearing Jew, was alt-right. The death of meaning.
On December 07 2017 04:10 GreenHorizons wrote: Danglars, you got any insight as to how Trump's less Jew friendly supporters reconcile with his staunchly pro Israel supporters?
That's been something that's puzzled me for a while so I'm curious how/if this impacted it significantly and just generally how that works?
They hate Palestinians worse. Israelis don't burn American flags as much and you're less likely to catch groups of them cheering after the September 11th terrorist attacks.
I never thought the anti-semitism Jewish-bankers-control-the-media-and-government made sense in the first place, though.
Even less so the stupid college protesters that thought Shapiro, a yarmulke-wearing Jew, was alt-right. The death of meaning.
So they are more worried about 9/11 and flag burning than global domination, that sounds ridicu... never mind, that makes perfect sense.
It is a really bad idea opposed by almost the entire world. So it sort of makes sense that Trump would be arrogant enough to do it. He is all about endangering Americans abroad.
On December 07 2017 02:25 Danglars wrote: It’s a pretty easy case of taking the high ground when the opponents have (mostly) vacated it.
Also, “Democrats need to fight back dirty,” by supporting a sexual harasser against a molestor of young teenagers is bringing whole new depths to that term. It’s like the Moore logic crew took over some Democrats too.
But what is the benefit? Not a single con will refuse to vote for Moore simply because he is a pedophile. Not a single con will change sides just because they see one side doesn't tolerate sexual assault or pedophilia. Will democrats stop voting if they see their side trying to be as dirty as the cons? I guess the issue really is that a lot of democrat voters get whiny and refuse to vote when thr parry isn't perfect, meanwhile the cons always vote for their "person" even when they are a pedophile or rapist.
Uhh tar the entirety of Republican candidates in 2018 by showing the mismatch? The elections are less than a year away.
And what will that do? 1/3 of people voting for moore said they were MORE LIKELY to vote for him AFTER the accusations (with proof) that he is a pedophile. You think a little thing like pointing out that their party condones rape and pedophilia while the other party doesn't will stop the "derp stick it to the libruhls" types?
Really the only benefit I can see here is what nebuchad said, in that the voting bases are different, and likely democrats will get discouraged and not vote if the democrat party doesn't take the high road. Meanwhile the cons seem to cheer for their party to be as lowly vile and despicable as humanly possible.
I can’t believe you’re honestly implying Alabama’s response to Moore is just going to be repeated in races across the country. You’re too cynical for words.
then you're dense. the existence of trump (as well as a whole lot of other cases, plus the entirety of research in political science) quite clearly proves that similar things would occur elsewhere throughout the country if similar situations arose.
Good thing Pelosi and Schumer have political advisors that aren’t as clueless or shortsighted as you. Trump gets elected and then you call me dense to suggest tight national races are very much impacted by Moore. It was Trump-Clinton ... the Dems can’t be so pitifully stupid to run pathetic candidates down every race.
maybe I misunderstood what you were saying. I thought you were saying that alabama's response to moore (many republicans supporting him despite the allegations) would not be repeated, if you were saying something else, then it'd depend on what you meant. from the quote chain, that was a reasonable thing to conclude you were talking about. also of course, you are dense in general adn wrong with your endless lies and nonsense on hillary.
On December 07 2017 02:14 KwarK wrote: It's possible they've decided he's hurting Jones in Alabama. If there's one thing that will allow conservatives to rationalize anything, no matter how obviously despicable, it's that the other side might also be guilty of it. That's why we're still seeing "but Bill Clinton" after two decades. Why Trump's obvious enriching himself through the Presidency is okay because what about Uranium One .
Refusing to keep Franken in the senate may be seen as a politically advantageous move to distinguish what they stand for vs what Roy Moore is.
The hypocrisy here is that you're analyzing this situation under the implicit assumption that Democrats aren't moving to oust Franken out of any ethical or moral qualms, but rather for political strategy reasons. Yet at the same time, you're chastising the GOP for being the morally inferior party because they stand on Moore's side for the same political strategy reasons. The Democrats made the same call with Clinton in the 90s as well.
This would be fine if you (or any of the other liberal/progressive posters here) were willing to acknowledge that the Democrats are cut from the same cloth Republicans are, and that virtually nobody in modern politics cares about much beyond the next election. But each time I point this out, I'm called delusional and subsequently assured that the Democratic politicians are indeed morally superior. I suppose schadenfreude makes the mental gymnastics well worth it for you guys though.
On December 07 2017 02:14 KwarK wrote: It's possible they've decided he's hurting Jones in Alabama. If there's one thing that will allow conservatives to rationalize anything, no matter how obviously despicable, it's that the other side might also be guilty of it. That's why we're still seeing "but Bill Clinton" after two decades. Why Trump's obvious enriching himself through the Presidency is okay because what about Uranium One .
Refusing to keep Franken in the senate may be seen as a politically advantageous move to distinguish what they stand for vs what Roy Moore is.
The hypocrisy here is that you're analyzing this situation under the implicit assumption that Democrats aren't moving to oust Franken out of any ethical or moral qualms, but rather for political strategy reasons. Yet at the same time, you're chastising the GOP for being the morally inferior party because they stand on Moore's side for the same political strategy reasons. The Democrats made the same call with Clinton in the 90s as well.
This would be fine if you (or any of the other liberal/progressive posters here) were willing to acknowledge that the Democrats are cut from the same cloth Republicans are, and that virtually nobody in modern politics cares about much beyond the next election. But each time I point this out, I'm called delusional and subsequently assured that the Democratic politicians are indeed morally superior. I suppose schadenfreude makes the mental gymnastics well worth it for you guys though.
they can both be bad, while still being superior. the dems are morally superior to the republicans. they're still pretty bad, but they're not AS bad, and it's still quite a clear difference between the degrees of immorality.
EPT
