In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!
NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
On October 14 2017 03:03 Mohdoo wrote: The whole war on Christmas thing is brain dead, but people getting whiny about someone saying Merry Christmas is also brain dead. Perhaps even more brain dead. You have to be mind bogglingly shitty to correct someone to say "actually, I don't celebrate christmas"
The war on christmas isnt that people care that you say merry christmas... It is that some people who say merry christmas lose their mind over someone saying happy holidays
It might be my overexposure to far left bullshit as a result of living in Portland, but my understanding is that there is some group of people who see businesses or whatever having a blanket statement of "merry christmas" as imposing Christian ideals or culture on people who do not subscribe to those beliefs.
However, the right then takes this and says "We, as a group of millions need to unite against this like 5000 people". It's just another example of the entire right uniting against some small group of people being offended. But this group of people getting offended by "Merry Christmas" really does exist. It is basically the same group of people wildly insecure with their heritage. Far left groups of minorities get so insecure that any little detail that reminds them they are a minority is met with extreme resentment and revolt.
there are some people like that, but that is portland after all. And it is a bit insensitive to the other religious holidays that occur during that time of year, it's nice for business to be more open and welcoming to everybody.
Personally, I like happy holidays since it means you can use the same expression/signage to cover thanksgiving, christmas, and new years, I'm fine wtih merry christmas too though (especially seeing as how christmas has become its own secular holiday separate from the religious aspects)
I've noticed a definite shift from "happy holidays" to "merry Christmas" in the common vernacular around where I am. I don't really care either way but it's all pretty contrived. Also worthy of mention is "reason for the season."
On October 14 2017 03:03 Mohdoo wrote: The whole war on Christmas thing is brain dead, but people getting whiny about someone saying Merry Christmas is also brain dead. Perhaps even more brain dead. You have to be mind bogglingly shitty to correct someone to say "actually, I don't celebrate christmas"
The war on christmas isnt that people care that you say merry christmas... It is that some people who say merry christmas lose their mind over someone saying happy holidays
It might be my overexposure to far left bullshit as a result of living in Portland, but my understanding is that there is some group of people who see businesses or whatever having a blanket statement of "merry christmas" as imposing Christian ideals or culture on people who do not subscribe to those beliefs.
However, the right then takes this and says "We, as a group of millions need to unite against this like 5000 people". It's just another example of the entire right uniting against some small group of people being offended. But this group of people getting offended by "Merry Christmas" really does exist. It is basically the same group of people wildly insecure with their heritage. Far left groups of minorities get so insecure that any little detail that reminds them they are a minority is met with extreme resentment and revolt.
there are some people like that, but that is portland after all. And it is a bit insensitive to the other religious holidays that occur during that time of year, it's nice for business to be more open and welcoming to everybody.
Personally, I like happy holidays since it means you can use the same expression/signage to cover thanksgiving, christmas, and new years, I'm fine wtih merry christmas too though (especially seeing as how christmas has become its own secular holiday separate from the religious aspects)
The truth is Christmas was a mid-winter celebration that got hijacked by Christianity. Heretic traditions like the tree, santa claus, hearts, food, gifts in socks and visiting family prevailed, though.
Having a "war on christmas" is actually counterproductive, and only increases the focus on the Christian aspects of the holiday. Fortunately, we kept "Jul", the pre-christian word for the celebration in my language, so we don't have that to fight over!
U.S. President Donald Trump will not certify that Iran is complying with the terms of a nuclear deal forged in 2015.
...
Under U.S. law, Trump faced a Sunday deadline to notify Congress whether Iran is complying with the accord that was painstakingly negotiated over 18 months by the Obama administration and determine if it remains a national security priority.
Although Trump allowed that Iran is living up to the letter of the agreement, he said it was not following the agreement's "spirit" of the regional stability it was intended to encourage.
...
But Trump's decision also faced criticism, with European Union foreign policy chief Federica Mogherini saying the deal is a robust agreement that is working and cannot be terminated by any one leader.
Mogherini said the accord "is a robust deal that provides guarantees and a strong monitoring mechanism so that Iran's nuclear program is, and will remain, exclusively for civilian purposes only."
Great job Trump /s
This is going to have some implications for security in the region.
Trump is threatening to pull out of every deal he doesn’t like because he didn’t make it himself. But he doesn’t seem to understand that pulled out of those just because he doesn’t like them destroys his ability to make new ones. Nations don’t want to cut deals with other nations if they are subject to the political whims of the next election cycle. But Trump is too stupid to know that.
U.S. President Donald Trump will not certify that Iran is complying with the terms of a nuclear deal forged in 2015.
...
Under U.S. law, Trump faced a Sunday deadline to notify Congress whether Iran is complying with the accord that was painstakingly negotiated over 18 months by the Obama administration and determine if it remains a national security priority.
Although Trump allowed that Iran is living up to the letter of the agreement, he said it was not following the agreement's "spirit" of the regional stability it was intended to encourage.
...
But Trump's decision also faced criticism, with European Union foreign policy chief Federica Mogherini saying the deal is a robust agreement that is working and cannot be terminated by any one leader.
Mogherini said the accord "is a robust deal that provides guarantees and a strong monitoring mechanism so that Iran's nuclear program is, and will remain, exclusively for civilian purposes only."
Great job Trump /s
This is going to have some implications for security in the region.
The rest of the world will just keep going on with the treaty and inspections without the US.
Trump will never get other countries to apply new sanctions, it might apply some on its own but that won't do much without support.
No one else will go to war, Trump is stupid enough to want to war for ratings but hopefully the military will tell him off like their doing with NK.
The world will keep going on as is, and everyone will just ignore the US.
On October 14 2017 04:18 Plansix wrote: Trump is threatening to pull out of every deal he doesn’t like because he didn’t make it himself. But he doesn’t seem to understand that pulled out of those just because he doesn’t like them destroys his ability to make new ones. Nations don’t want to cut deals with other nations if they are subject to the political whims of the next election cycle. But Trump is too stupid to know that.
Seems like he neither understands money nor deal making, the two things he's actually supposed to be good at.
U.S. President Donald Trump will not certify that Iran is complying with the terms of a nuclear deal forged in 2015.
...
Under U.S. law, Trump faced a Sunday deadline to notify Congress whether Iran is complying with the accord that was painstakingly negotiated over 18 months by the Obama administration and determine if it remains a national security priority.
Although Trump allowed that Iran is living up to the letter of the agreement, he said it was not following the agreement's "spirit" of the regional stability it was intended to encourage.
...
But Trump's decision also faced criticism, with European Union foreign policy chief Federica Mogherini saying the deal is a robust agreement that is working and cannot be terminated by any one leader.
Mogherini said the accord "is a robust deal that provides guarantees and a strong monitoring mechanism so that Iran's nuclear program is, and will remain, exclusively for civilian purposes only."
Great job Trump /s
This is going to have some implications for security in the region.
Good speech/speechwriter. Very presidential. And go Trump! this is a move I hoped he would do. He has a habit of immediately doing something bad right after good, so we'll see how long this lasts.
U.S. President Donald Trump will not certify that Iran is complying with the terms of a nuclear deal forged in 2015.
...
Under U.S. law, Trump faced a Sunday deadline to notify Congress whether Iran is complying with the accord that was painstakingly negotiated over 18 months by the Obama administration and determine if it remains a national security priority.
Although Trump allowed that Iran is living up to the letter of the agreement, he said it was not following the agreement's "spirit" of the regional stability it was intended to encourage.
...
But Trump's decision also faced criticism, with European Union foreign policy chief Federica Mogherini saying the deal is a robust agreement that is working and cannot be terminated by any one leader.
Mogherini said the accord "is a robust deal that provides guarantees and a strong monitoring mechanism so that Iran's nuclear program is, and will remain, exclusively for civilian purposes only."
Great job Trump /s
This is going to have some implications for security in the region.
Good speech/speechwriter. Very presidential. And go Trump! this is a move I hoped he would do. He has a habit of immediately doing something bad right after good, so we'll see how long this lasts.
So why are you excited that trump pulled out of the treaty? Everyone says they were following it and there is no way trump gets a better deal.
all this seems to be is the US losing ground on the world stage and Iran getting closer to a nuke
On October 14 2017 03:03 Mohdoo wrote: The whole war on Christmas thing is brain dead, but people getting whiny about someone saying Merry Christmas is also brain dead. Perhaps even more brain dead. You have to be mind bogglingly shitty to correct someone to say "actually, I don't celebrate christmas"
The war on christmas isnt that people care that you say merry christmas... It is that some people who say merry christmas lose their mind over someone saying happy holidays
It might be my overexposure to far left bullshit as a result of living in Portland, but my understanding is that there is some group of people who see businesses or whatever having a blanket statement of "merry christmas" as imposing Christian ideals or culture on people who do not subscribe to those beliefs.
However, the right then takes this and says "We, as a group of millions need to unite against this like 5000 people". It's just another example of the entire right uniting against some small group of people being offended. But this group of people getting offended by "Merry Christmas" really does exist. It is basically the same group of people wildly insecure with their heritage. Far left groups of minorities get so insecure that any little detail that reminds them they are a minority is met with extreme resentment and revolt.
there are some people like that, but that is portland after all. And it is a bit insensitive to the other religious holidays that occur during that time of year, it's nice for business to be more open and welcoming to everybody.
Personally, I like happy holidays since it means you can use the same expression/signage to cover thanksgiving, christmas, and new years, I'm fine wtih merry christmas too though (especially seeing as how christmas has become its own secular holiday separate from the religious aspects)
The truth is Christmas was a mid-winter celebration that got hijacked by Christianity. Heretic traditions like the tree, santa claus, hearts, food, gifts in socks and visiting family prevailed, though.
Having a "war on christmas" is actually counterproductive, and only increases the focus on the Christian aspects of the holiday. Fortunately, we kept "Jul", the pre-christian word for the celebration in my language, so we don't have that to fight over!
Santa Claus is Christian. He's based on saint Nicholas, a bishop.
Bush2 sabotaged and then pulled out of Clinton's deal with NK in 2003. NK had nukes 3 years later in 2006. That puts the first Iranian, and then first Saudi nuclear weapon on track for 2020. Trump looks like he will be the man to redeem President James Buchanan. At least Buchanan tried to stop the Civil War.
On October 14 2017 03:03 Mohdoo wrote: The whole war on Christmas thing is brain dead, but people getting whiny about someone saying Merry Christmas is also brain dead. Perhaps even more brain dead. You have to be mind bogglingly shitty to correct someone to say "actually, I don't celebrate christmas"
The war on christmas isnt that people care that you say merry christmas... It is that some people who say merry christmas lose their mind over someone saying happy holidays
It might be my overexposure to far left bullshit as a result of living in Portland, but my understanding is that there is some group of people who see businesses or whatever having a blanket statement of "merry christmas" as imposing Christian ideals or culture on people who do not subscribe to those beliefs.
However, the right then takes this and says "We, as a group of millions need to unite against this like 5000 people". It's just another example of the entire right uniting against some small group of people being offended. But this group of people getting offended by "Merry Christmas" really does exist. It is basically the same group of people wildly insecure with their heritage. Far left groups of minorities get so insecure that any little detail that reminds them they are a minority is met with extreme resentment and revolt.
there are some people like that, but that is portland after all. And it is a bit insensitive to the other religious holidays that occur during that time of year, it's nice for business to be more open and welcoming to everybody.
Personally, I like happy holidays since it means you can use the same expression/signage to cover thanksgiving, christmas, and new years, I'm fine wtih merry christmas too though (especially seeing as how christmas has become its own secular holiday separate from the religious aspects)
The truth is Christmas was a mid-winter celebration that got hijacked by Christianity. Heretic traditions like the tree, santa claus, hearts, food, gifts in socks and visiting family prevailed, though.
Having a "war on christmas" is actually counterproductive, and only increases the focus on the Christian aspects of the holiday. Fortunately, we kept "Jul", the pre-christian word for the celebration in my language, so we don't have that to fight over!
Santa Claus is Christian. He's based on saint Nicholas, a bishop.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturnalia Above is the Roman festival that turned into Christmas. There were similar midwinter festivals in most cultures at the time.
On October 14 2017 04:51 Wulfey_LA wrote: Bush2 sabotaged and then pulled out of Clinton's deal with NK in 2003. NK had nukes 3 years later in 2006. That puts the first Iranian, and then first Saudi nuclear weapon on track for 2020. Trump looks like he will be the man to redeem President James Buchanan. At least Buchanan tried to stop the Civil War.
Yep, pretty much. The hard line idiots in Washington think they can bully countries into not building nukes, rather than work out deals.
On October 14 2017 04:51 Wulfey_LA wrote: Bush2 sabotaged and then pulled out of Clinton's deal with NK in 2003. NK had nukes 3 years later in 2006. That puts the first Iranian, and then first Saudi nuclear weapon on track for 2020. Trump looks like he will be the man to redeem President James Buchanan. At least Buchanan tried to stop the Civil War.
Yep, pretty much. The hard line idiots in Washington think they can bully countries into not building nukes, rather than work out deals.
If the leaks are to believed, then Mattis and Tillerson tried to talk DJT out of this stupid plan. They tried to have some way DJT could shit on Obama publicly while keeping the deal. Of course DJT cucked them out and broke whatever deal he had with them. This isn't necessarily a conservative move, this is a Partisan move.
On October 14 2017 04:51 Wulfey_LA wrote: Bush2 sabotaged and then pulled out of Clinton's deal with NK in 2003. NK had nukes 3 years later in 2006. That puts the first Iranian, and then first Saudi nuclear weapon on track for 2020. Trump looks like he will be the man to redeem President James Buchanan. At least Buchanan tried to stop the Civil War.
Yep, pretty much. The hard line idiots in Washington think they can bully countries into not building nukes, rather than work out deals.
If the leaks are to believed, then Mattis and Tillerson tried to talk DJT out of this stupid plan. They tried to have some way DJT could shit on Obama publicly while keeping the deal. Of course DJT cucked them out and broke whatever deal he had with them. This isn't necessarily a conservative move, this is a Partisan move.
Isn't the conservative movement the Partisan movement Trump adheres to? (In as much as he does to anything except the daily whim.)
On October 14 2017 04:51 Wulfey_LA wrote: Bush2 sabotaged and then pulled out of Clinton's deal with NK in 2003. NK had nukes 3 years later in 2006. That puts the first Iranian, and then first Saudi nuclear weapon on track for 2020. Trump looks like he will be the man to redeem President James Buchanan. At least Buchanan tried to stop the Civil War.
Yep, pretty much. The hard line idiots in Washington think they can bully countries into not building nukes, rather than work out deals.
If the leaks are to believed, then Mattis and Tillerson tried to talk DJT out of this stupid plan. They tried to have some way DJT could shit on Obama publicly while keeping the deal. Of course DJT cucked them out and broke whatever deal he had with them. This isn't necessarily a conservative move, this is a Partisan move.
Isn't the conservative movement the Partisan movement Trump adheres to? (In as much as he does to anything except the daily whim.)
Max Boot is no liberal and no dove. Boot has written many columns attacking Iran and contemporaneously (2015**) attacking the Iran deal. He says keep the deal (2017). Conservatives who read and thought about the problem say keep the deal. Partisans who hate Obama/Democrats say trash the deal.
U.S. President Donald Trump will not certify that Iran is complying with the terms of a nuclear deal forged in 2015.
...
Under U.S. law, Trump faced a Sunday deadline to notify Congress whether Iran is complying with the accord that was painstakingly negotiated over 18 months by the Obama administration and determine if it remains a national security priority.
Although Trump allowed that Iran is living up to the letter of the agreement, he said it was not following the agreement's "spirit" of the regional stability it was intended to encourage.
...
But Trump's decision also faced criticism, with European Union foreign policy chief Federica Mogherini saying the deal is a robust agreement that is working and cannot be terminated by any one leader.
Mogherini said the accord "is a robust deal that provides guarantees and a strong monitoring mechanism so that Iran's nuclear program is, and will remain, exclusively for civilian purposes only."
Great job Trump /s
This is going to have some implications for security in the region.
Good speech/speechwriter. Very presidential. And go Trump! this is a move I hoped he would do. He has a habit of immediately doing something bad right after good, so we'll see how long this lasts.
I don't get this. You're voluntarily giving up influence of the US in the world for no apparent reason. The IAEA says that Iran is in full compliance. In light of this other nations will not abandon the deal or positively view antagonistic US behaviour, and unilateral US sanctions are meaningless. Just like withdrawing from the TPP weakened Americas influence in Asia this weakens US influence in the ME, the world will simply move on. I don't understand this, it is completely unenforced behaviour.
So aren't other countries able to just continue to enforce the Iran deal? What actually changes from Trump no longer respecting the deal? Isn't Iran still getting inspected and whatnot? I'm not seeing what this does other than stick his tongue out at Obama.
U.S. President Donald Trump will not certify that Iran is complying with the terms of a nuclear deal forged in 2015.
...
Under U.S. law, Trump faced a Sunday deadline to notify Congress whether Iran is complying with the accord that was painstakingly negotiated over 18 months by the Obama administration and determine if it remains a national security priority.
Although Trump allowed that Iran is living up to the letter of the agreement, he said it was not following the agreement's "spirit" of the regional stability it was intended to encourage.
...
But Trump's decision also faced criticism, with European Union foreign policy chief Federica Mogherini saying the deal is a robust agreement that is working and cannot be terminated by any one leader.
Mogherini said the accord "is a robust deal that provides guarantees and a strong monitoring mechanism so that Iran's nuclear program is, and will remain, exclusively for civilian purposes only."
Great job Trump /s
This is going to have some implications for security in the region.
Good speech/speechwriter. Very presidential. And go Trump! this is a move I hoped he would do. He has a habit of immediately doing something bad right after good, so we'll see how long this lasts.
So why are you excited that trump pulled out of the treaty? Everyone says they were following it and there is no way trump gets a better deal.
all this seems to be is the US losing ground on the world stage and Iran getting closer to a nuke
he only likes it because of pure partisanship, he can't actually make a good argument for the pullout (because there isn't one, and far better than him have tried). There's no actual benefit to the action (other than scoring political points with fools, at the expense of america's security).
U.S. President Donald Trump will not certify that Iran is complying with the terms of a nuclear deal forged in 2015.
...
Under U.S. law, Trump faced a Sunday deadline to notify Congress whether Iran is complying with the accord that was painstakingly negotiated over 18 months by the Obama administration and determine if it remains a national security priority.
Although Trump allowed that Iran is living up to the letter of the agreement, he said it was not following the agreement's "spirit" of the regional stability it was intended to encourage.
...
But Trump's decision also faced criticism, with European Union foreign policy chief Federica Mogherini saying the deal is a robust agreement that is working and cannot be terminated by any one leader.
Mogherini said the accord "is a robust deal that provides guarantees and a strong monitoring mechanism so that Iran's nuclear program is, and will remain, exclusively for civilian purposes only."
Great job Trump /s
This is going to have some implications for security in the region.
Good speech/speechwriter. Very presidential. And go Trump! this is a move I hoped he would do. He has a habit of immediately doing something bad right after good, so we'll see how long this lasts.
I don't get this. You're voluntarily giving up influence of the US in the world for no apparent reason. The IAEA says that Iran is in full compliance. In light of this other nations will not abandon the deal or positively view antagonistic US behaviour, and unilateral US sanctions are meaningless. Just like withdrawing from the TPP weakened Americas influence in Asia this weakens US influence in the ME, the world will simply move on. I don't understand this, it is completely unenforced behaviour.
You heard DJT. This isn't a hard argument.
Iran == bad Obama == bad Iran deal is from Obama == 2x bad Therefore ending the Iran deal == good
If you think actually stopping Iran from having a nuclear weapon, the trustworthiness of the USA in making deals, the USA's influence, or the fact that Iran is in compliance based on all empirical evidence matters ... then you weren't listening to DJT.
EPT
