|
Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On October 05 2017 01:58 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2017 01:51 Jockmcplop wrote:On October 05 2017 01:46 xDaunt wrote:On October 05 2017 01:34 Mohdoo wrote:On October 05 2017 01:26 xDaunt wrote:On October 05 2017 01:23 Mohdoo wrote:On October 05 2017 01:20 xDaunt wrote:On October 05 2017 01:18 Plansix wrote:
The dude Xdaunt voted for won the election by running around the country saying it was garbage, but we hate America for doing the same thing. Apparently we aren’t patriots, but we could get Xdaunt’s vote. Good luck arguing that Trump and his supporters are unpatriotic. They very clearly side side with the country and the flag on just about every issue. The contrast is quite stark with y'all on the Left. Can you explain how exactly someone sides with a flag? how does someone oppose the flag? Surely you have noted where the battle lines are drawn on the NFL issue. I can't think of a better example illustrating my point: the American Left is far too eager to throw the country under the bus. I would argue that having there be symbols or ideas that are considered off limits is unamerican. We are a nation born from revolution. Kicking shit over, throwing a fuss and hitting people in the nuts to get attention is who we are. We make a fuss, we make a scene and we are a generally enthusiastic bunch. Doing stuff that offends people and creates enthused dialogue is American. I don't think that there are any symbols or ideas that are "off limits." But when the express message behind a certain symbol is that America is "I'm not going to honor a racist country," we're well-into unpatriotic territory at that point and well-beyond the underlying idea of merely "we need to fix police abuse to improve society." I think the relevant question here is what you think people should do when trying to merely fix police abuse has been resisted for decades to the point of exasperation. Keep banging their heads on a brick wall or escalate the issue somehow? I'm all for trying to new approaches at messaging and "escalation," but certain methods are clearly going to be counterproductive. Kaepernick's choice of protest is one of those that clearly was going to be counterproductive and has turned out to be counterproductive.
It depends what you are trying to produce, I suppose. If the idea is to radicalize some people and build a movement (which seems to be the aim - although they wouldn't admit it if the word 'radicalize' is used) then in the long term I would say its very productive. They aren't going to win the respect of republicans this way, but they must know this and have given up on that (or never wanted to in the first place).
Its hard to say how this will play out long term. Really the best way to advance their cause in my opinion is to focus on getting someone supportive of their aims into the WH. Probably not pissing off the majority of the population would be a good start, although with the extremely 'progressive' movement going on in universities in the US right now, I can see them eventually getting what they want.
Let's be honest though, it is something that needs to happen. The lack of accountability and poor training of police in the US is a tragedy and that it is focused by systemic racism on to black people is awful.
|
On October 05 2017 01:58 Artisreal wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2017 01:56 RealityIsKing wrote:On October 05 2017 01:54 Artisreal wrote:On October 05 2017 01:50 RealityIsKing wrote:On October 05 2017 01:42 brian wrote:On October 05 2017 01:26 xDaunt wrote:On October 05 2017 01:23 Mohdoo wrote:On October 05 2017 01:20 xDaunt wrote:On October 05 2017 01:18 Plansix wrote:
The dude Xdaunt voted for won the election by running around the country saying it was garbage, but we hate America for doing the same thing. Apparently we aren’t patriots, but we could get Xdaunt’s vote. Good luck arguing that Trump and his supporters are unpatriotic. They very clearly side side with the country and the flag on just about every issue. The contrast is quite stark with y'all on the Left. Can you explain how exactly someone sides with a flag? how does someone oppose the flag? Surely you have noted where the battle lines are drawn on the NFL issue. I can't think of a better example illustrating my point: the American Left is far too eager to throw the country under the bus. oo i wanna try. This American Right is too preoccupied with an image and a perceived patriotism by others to bother with any realities or acknowledging real problems. nobody cares about your feelings. nobody cares about my feelings(hell, including myself half the time.) you can sit here and talk about respect for a flag and how patriotic someone is or isn’t. i’ll instead put my eggs in a basket with a real problem. how you can bother to attack someone based on perceived slights to an image is beyond me. who has the time or inclination? What are these so-called "real problems" that you have in mind? You possibly should start reading more posts in this thread. Well there are lots of vague passive aggressive posts here that are designed to provoke rather than discuss. It's almost like you took a peek in the mirror. Show nested quote +On October 05 2017 01:58 xDaunt wrote:On October 05 2017 01:51 Jockmcplop wrote:On October 05 2017 01:46 xDaunt wrote:On October 05 2017 01:34 Mohdoo wrote:On October 05 2017 01:26 xDaunt wrote:On October 05 2017 01:23 Mohdoo wrote:On October 05 2017 01:20 xDaunt wrote:On October 05 2017 01:18 Plansix wrote:
The dude Xdaunt voted for won the election by running around the country saying it was garbage, but we hate America for doing the same thing. Apparently we aren’t patriots, but we could get Xdaunt’s vote. Good luck arguing that Trump and his supporters are unpatriotic. They very clearly side side with the country and the flag on just about every issue. The contrast is quite stark with y'all on the Left. Can you explain how exactly someone sides with a flag? how does someone oppose the flag? Surely you have noted where the battle lines are drawn on the NFL issue. I can't think of a better example illustrating my point: the American Left is far too eager to throw the country under the bus. I would argue that having there be symbols or ideas that are considered off limits is unamerican. We are a nation born from revolution. Kicking shit over, throwing a fuss and hitting people in the nuts to get attention is who we are. We make a fuss, we make a scene and we are a generally enthusiastic bunch. Doing stuff that offends people and creates enthused dialogue is American. I don't think that there are any symbols or ideas that are "off limits." But when the express message behind a certain symbol is that America is "I'm not going to honor a racist country," we're well-into unpatriotic territory at that point and well-beyond the underlying idea of merely "we need to fix police abuse to improve society." I think the relevant question here is what you think people should do when trying to merely fix police abuse has been resisted for decades to the point of exasperation. Keep banging their heads on a brick wall or escalate the issue somehow? I'm all for trying to new approaches at messaging and "escalation," but certain methods are clearly going to be counterproductive. Kaepernick's choice of protest is one of those that clearly was going to be counterproductive and has turned out to be counterproductive. How is the status quo not counterproductive to a peaceful society? Hint: is is a lot more counterproductive than blocking a highway once or twice.
Sometime I do provoke but only to specific individual who does the same but if they are willing to discuss, I go for the facts.
But there are some particular individuals who even though presented with facts, still try to say that Trump is racist. If anything Trump attacks people from all over the spectrum, he doesn't discriminate when he attacks.
|
Ok, so a proposal;
PR needs a bailout. The federal government needs money. Lets make a deal.
The federal government will bailout PR, and in return PR will pay income taxes and become a State. The federal government gets more money in the long run via this method, and without it PR is probably non-existent.
|
On October 05 2017 02:05 RealityIsKing wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2017 01:58 Artisreal wrote:On October 05 2017 01:56 RealityIsKing wrote:On October 05 2017 01:54 Artisreal wrote:On October 05 2017 01:50 RealityIsKing wrote:On October 05 2017 01:42 brian wrote:On October 05 2017 01:26 xDaunt wrote:On October 05 2017 01:23 Mohdoo wrote:On October 05 2017 01:20 xDaunt wrote:On October 05 2017 01:18 Plansix wrote:
The dude Xdaunt voted for won the election by running around the country saying it was garbage, but we hate America for doing the same thing. Apparently we aren’t patriots, but we could get Xdaunt’s vote. Good luck arguing that Trump and his supporters are unpatriotic. They very clearly side side with the country and the flag on just about every issue. The contrast is quite stark with y'all on the Left. Can you explain how exactly someone sides with a flag? how does someone oppose the flag? Surely you have noted where the battle lines are drawn on the NFL issue. I can't think of a better example illustrating my point: the American Left is far too eager to throw the country under the bus. oo i wanna try. This American Right is too preoccupied with an image and a perceived patriotism by others to bother with any realities or acknowledging real problems. nobody cares about your feelings. nobody cares about my feelings(hell, including myself half the time.) you can sit here and talk about respect for a flag and how patriotic someone is or isn’t. i’ll instead put my eggs in a basket with a real problem. how you can bother to attack someone based on perceived slights to an image is beyond me. who has the time or inclination? What are these so-called "real problems" that you have in mind? You possibly should start reading more posts in this thread. Well there are lots of vague passive aggressive posts here that are designed to provoke rather than discuss. It's almost like you took a peek in the mirror. On October 05 2017 01:58 xDaunt wrote:On October 05 2017 01:51 Jockmcplop wrote:On October 05 2017 01:46 xDaunt wrote:On October 05 2017 01:34 Mohdoo wrote:On October 05 2017 01:26 xDaunt wrote:On October 05 2017 01:23 Mohdoo wrote:On October 05 2017 01:20 xDaunt wrote:On October 05 2017 01:18 Plansix wrote:
The dude Xdaunt voted for won the election by running around the country saying it was garbage, but we hate America for doing the same thing. Apparently we aren’t patriots, but we could get Xdaunt’s vote. Good luck arguing that Trump and his supporters are unpatriotic. They very clearly side side with the country and the flag on just about every issue. The contrast is quite stark with y'all on the Left. Can you explain how exactly someone sides with a flag? how does someone oppose the flag? Surely you have noted where the battle lines are drawn on the NFL issue. I can't think of a better example illustrating my point: the American Left is far too eager to throw the country under the bus. I would argue that having there be symbols or ideas that are considered off limits is unamerican. We are a nation born from revolution. Kicking shit over, throwing a fuss and hitting people in the nuts to get attention is who we are. We make a fuss, we make a scene and we are a generally enthusiastic bunch. Doing stuff that offends people and creates enthused dialogue is American. I don't think that there are any symbols or ideas that are "off limits." But when the express message behind a certain symbol is that America is "I'm not going to honor a racist country," we're well-into unpatriotic territory at that point and well-beyond the underlying idea of merely "we need to fix police abuse to improve society." I think the relevant question here is what you think people should do when trying to merely fix police abuse has been resisted for decades to the point of exasperation. Keep banging their heads on a brick wall or escalate the issue somehow? I'm all for trying to new approaches at messaging and "escalation," but certain methods are clearly going to be counterproductive. Kaepernick's choice of protest is one of those that clearly was going to be counterproductive and has turned out to be counterproductive. How is the status quo not counterproductive to a peaceful society? Hint: is is a lot more counterproductive than blocking a highway once or twice. Sometime I do provoke but only to specific individual who does the same but if they are willing to discuss, I go for the facts. But there are some particular individuals who even though presented with facts, still try to say that Trump is racist. If anything Trump attacks people from all over the spectrum, he doesn't discriminate when he attacks.
to be honest, this seems at least questionable.
just one example:
On October 05 2017 01:40 RealityIsKing wrote:
Everybody should quiet down.
Are people getting the help they need in PR?
Yes they are.
Is this taken care of better than Katrina?
Yes it is by damage control.
Ok so problem solved and move on to the gun issue.
|
On October 05 2017 01:50 RealityIsKing wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2017 01:42 brian wrote:On October 05 2017 01:26 xDaunt wrote:On October 05 2017 01:23 Mohdoo wrote:On October 05 2017 01:20 xDaunt wrote:On October 05 2017 01:18 Plansix wrote:
The dude Xdaunt voted for won the election by running around the country saying it was garbage, but we hate America for doing the same thing. Apparently we aren’t patriots, but we could get Xdaunt’s vote. Good luck arguing that Trump and his supporters are unpatriotic. They very clearly side side with the country and the flag on just about every issue. The contrast is quite stark with y'all on the Left. Can you explain how exactly someone sides with a flag? how does someone oppose the flag? Surely you have noted where the battle lines are drawn on the NFL issue. I can't think of a better example illustrating my point: the American Left is far too eager to throw the country under the bus. oo i wanna try. This American Right is too preoccupied with an image and a perceived patriotism by others to bother with any realities or acknowledging real problems. nobody cares about your feelings. nobody cares about my feelings(hell, including myself half the time.) you can sit here and talk about respect for a flag and how patriotic someone is or isn’t. i’ll instead put my eggs in a basket with a real problem. how you can bother to attack someone based on perceived slights to an image is beyond me. who has the time or inclination? What are these so-called "real problems" that you have in mind?
Well, to keep the topic relevant:
Real problem: Police brutality and corruption. Attempts at accountability (body cams, 3rd party investigators into police departments, etc.) cancelled by Trump and his administration.
Fake problem: People not worshipping a flag and a song.
|
United States44187 Posts
There is a lack of overlap between the things RiK says and the things that are supported by evidence that is so consistent that it can only be deliberate. A monkey with a keyboard would give a more truthful representation of events than he does.
|
Everyone is on private jets with private email.
|
On October 05 2017 02:07 Nevuk wrote:
Ok, so a proposal;
PR needs a bailout. The federal government needs money. Lets make a deal.
The federal government will bailout PR, and in return PR will pay income taxes and become a State. The federal government gets more money in the long run via this method, and without it PR is probably non-existent.
If I also recall, most of the people voted to become a state. It's up to Congress now no?
|
On October 05 2017 02:12 KwarK wrote:
There is a lack of overlap between the things RiK says and the things that are supported by evidence that is so consistent that it can only be deliberate. A monkey with a keyboard would give a more truthful representation of events than he does.
A mathematician on Sam Harris' podcast (David Krackauer I think) had an interesting definition of stupidity in a scientific sense. Stupid actions are those that consistently perform worse than random actions.
I think this is relevant here, and to Trump's presidency.
|
|
|
On October 05 2017 02:14 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2017 02:07 Nevuk wrote:
Ok, so a proposal;
PR needs a bailout. The federal government needs money. Lets make a deal.
The federal government will bailout PR, and in return PR will pay income taxes and become a State. The federal government gets more money in the long run via this method, and without it PR is probably non-existent. If I also recall, most of the people voted to become a state. It's up to Congress now no?
Yes and no. The majority of the population did not even take part in that vote. And even if that happened, there would need to be a huge political push to make it a state. Adding states to the Union is really hard.
|
On October 05 2017 02:07 Nevuk wrote:
Ok, so a proposal;
PR needs a bailout. The federal government needs money. Lets make a deal.
The federal government will bailout PR, and in return PR will pay income taxes and become a State. The federal government gets more money in the long run via this method, and without it PR is probably non-existent.
I think you wildly oversetimate the economic reality that PR is in currently and was before the hurricane. It was roughly half the gdp per capita and its going to struggle to reach that any time soon.
The debt is more of an issue beacuse of the shitty treaty laws they have with the USA. The damage caused to the country is more then the debt they carry even. I would go so far as to say the debt is a red harring now.
|
On October 05 2017 02:19 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2017 02:07 Nevuk wrote:
Ok, so a proposal;
PR needs a bailout. The federal government needs money. Lets make a deal.
The federal government will bailout PR, and in return PR will pay income taxes and become a State. The federal government gets more money in the long run via this method, and without it PR is probably non-existent. I think you wildly oversetimate the economic reality that PR is in currently and was before the hurricane. It was roughly half the gdp per capita and its going to struggle to reach that any time soon. The debt is more of an issue beacuse of the shitty treaty laws they have with the USA. The damage caused to the country is more then the debt they carry even. I would go so far as to say the debt is a red harring now.
Of course it is. But its an issue Trump is going to bring up because he doesn’t like the idea of this free loading island people stiffing a lot of hard working wall street people just because they got hit by a hurricane. He wants them to pay it back and be grateful for the chance to rebuild their island. And of course, the racial overtones of this entire thing plain as day.
|
I thought PR was mostly white anyways
On October 05 2017 02:19 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2017 02:07 Nevuk wrote:
Ok, so a proposal;
PR needs a bailout. The federal government needs money. Lets make a deal.
The federal government will bailout PR, and in return PR will pay income taxes and become a State. The federal government gets more money in the long run via this method, and without it PR is probably non-existent. I think you wildly oversetimate the economic reality that PR is in currently and was before the hurricane. It was roughly half the gdp per capita and its going to struggle to reach that any time soon. The debt is more of an issue beacuse of the shitty treaty laws they have with the USA. The damage caused to the country is more then the debt they carry even. I would go so far as to say the debt is a red harring now.
Bailout referring not just to debt, but to rebuilding the island.
|
On October 05 2017 02:29 Nevuk wrote:
I thought PR was mostly white anyways
But a lot of them speak Spanish. Let me tell you about the time when Italians weren't white people in the US.
|
Really this sounds like an identity politics minded crowd rushing to see anything and everything in terms of race more than genuine racism.
|
On October 05 2017 02:02 RealityIsKing wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2017 01:59 brian wrote:On October 05 2017 01:50 RealityIsKing wrote:On October 05 2017 01:42 brian wrote:On October 05 2017 01:26 xDaunt wrote:On October 05 2017 01:23 Mohdoo wrote:On October 05 2017 01:20 xDaunt wrote:On October 05 2017 01:18 Plansix wrote:
The dude Xdaunt voted for won the election by running around the country saying it was garbage, but we hate America for doing the same thing. Apparently we aren’t patriots, but we could get Xdaunt’s vote. Good luck arguing that Trump and his supporters are unpatriotic. They very clearly side side with the country and the flag on just about every issue. The contrast is quite stark with y'all on the Left. Can you explain how exactly someone sides with a flag? how does someone oppose the flag? Surely you have noted where the battle lines are drawn on the NFL issue. I can't think of a better example illustrating my point: the American Left is far too eager to throw the country under the bus. oo i wanna try. This American Right is too preoccupied with an image and a perceived patriotism by others to bother with any realities or acknowledging real problems. nobody cares about your feelings. nobody cares about my feelings(hell, including myself half the time.) you can sit here and talk about respect for a flag and how patriotic someone is or isn’t. i’ll instead put my eggs in a basket with a real problem. how you can bother to attack someone based on perceived slights to an image is beyond me. who has the time or inclination? What are these so-called "real problems" that you have in mind? racism tax reform health care privatized prisons infrastructure net neutrality civil rights equality discrimination against protected classes corruption in politics lobbyists guns idk, to name a few. on that list, how XDaunt feels about my expressions of patriotism will be towards the bottom. I like how you have racism on the top of the list. I do believe that that there are racism in the country (against ALL colors should I add) but I wouldn't prioritize it over some of the other things.
i didn’t put them in any particular order. though i do think it’s becoming an increasing problem in the last few months, as opposed to something say like gun violence. the new regime seems to have ushered in some louder fringe lunatics trying to re normalize their hang ups.
but alas it was just an exercise in things that are more important than ‘the american right’ ‘s obsession with an image or perceived
slight against one. so i have to reiterate- who gives a fuck.
|
On October 05 2017 02:34 LegalLord wrote:
Really this sounds like an identity politics minded crowd rushing to see anything and everything in terms of race more than genuine racism.
Someone has to do it. If we left to folks like you, we wouldn't fight racism until black people were lynched and we were deporting US citizens for not having the right ID card on them at all times.
|
On October 05 2017 02:29 Nevuk wrote:I thought PR was mostly white anyways Show nested quote +On October 05 2017 02:19 Sermokala wrote:On October 05 2017 02:07 Nevuk wrote:
Ok, so a proposal;
PR needs a bailout. The federal government needs money. Lets make a deal.
The federal government will bailout PR, and in return PR will pay income taxes and become a State. The federal government gets more money in the long run via this method, and without it PR is probably non-existent. I think you wildly oversetimate the economic reality that PR is in currently and was before the hurricane. It was roughly half the gdp per capita and its going to struggle to reach that any time soon. The debt is more of an issue beacuse of the shitty treaty laws they have with the USA. The damage caused to the country is more then the debt they carry even. I would go so far as to say the debt is a red harring now. Bailout referring not just to debt, but to rebuilding the island.
PR has a lot of Hispanics who identify as white. Being Hispanic is weird. A lot of Hispanics consider themselves white. I think it is more so "I am not Mexican" lmao. Sad but true.
|
"I am not Mexican or Guatemalan"* 
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
