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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please. In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. | ||
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Artisreal
Germany9235 Posts
On October 05 2017 01:09 xDaunt wrote: Because he lifted the language directly from my post. The context is undeniable. Surely not because he wanted to point out the obvious fallacy of your words. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21679 Posts
On October 05 2017 00:51 xDaunt wrote: Y'all on the Left should be shaming this post a little more. I know how much you guys hate having your patriotism questioned, and this kind of stupid shit does nothing but reinforce those very sentiments. Sorry for linking a tv show but this answers your question so well. + Show Spoiler + | ||
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Sermokala
United States13926 Posts
On October 05 2017 01:09 Logo wrote: Which would probably never happen because it's easy enough to determine PR's political leanings and the opposing side has no motivation to tilt things against their own power. This isn't really proveable and its arguable that they'd vote republican in an election. The bigger issue by far would be creating an aceptable plan for it to survive economically in the transision. Its debt would be small potatoes compared to the rebuilding cost and.the transision to a federal minimum wage. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On October 05 2017 00:22 ChristianS wrote: This is such a bizarre idea of responsibility. Many liberals claim Republicans are racist and don't care about or hate minorities, sure. I've heard this rhetoric, too. I don't recall ever making such broad statements myself, unless in the sense of "everybody is somewhat racist," which isn't really the same thing but whatever. So Republicans don't like the left calling them racist, and their response is... to elect a man who's blatantly racist? And then complain when the left tries to hold them responsible for the actions of the man they elected? Why on Earth would they expect that to stop the liberals from calling them racists, when they just offered the best evidence for it the liberals have ever had? I'm trying to think of a role-swap analogy, and the best I have so far is Jonah Goldberg writing a book calling liberals fascists, and liberals responding by literally electing Hitler. Then getting mad when the right cites this as evidence that Goldberg was right. (For the record, if anyone thinks I'm calling Republicans fascists/Godwining with this analogy, you have a poor understanding of what analogies are.) To be clear, I don't think all Trump supporters are racists. But to support Trump you have to either be so oblivious that you don't recognize racism staring you in the face, or you have to not consider his racism a dealbreaker. I don't think either case is going to be changed by liberals saying "you're right, I'm sorry, you're not racist, now let's talk about the Dems' economic message." It might win the Democrats elections, but again, none of us are political operatives for the DNC so I'd rather people not lie to "build a coalition" or whatever. How much of Trump's support do you think was based on spite (e.g. "Libs are gonna do the same bullshit anyways, might as well give them something to cry about for real this time")? I'd like to think Trump supporters honestly thought he'd be better for the country; if they knew how bad he was but just wanted to hurt liberals, that's another story entirely. Your voice is lost in the sea of more extreme rhetoric. National media outlets, elected Democrats, and various other political figures overplayed their hand. If you're going to endure hateful rhetoric with the support or complaisance of 30-40% of America, you might as well get somebody in there that will dish it right back. That's why I brought it up in the context of Mohdoo's post. It's also why I have a guess for why you didn't mention what Mohdoo posted. You're being purposefully or unintentionally dense on the topic of action and reaction. It's been a pattern since the Clinton years, hitting national highs during the Obama years. Romney was a racist. Not supporting Obama was racism. Not support Democratic solutions on crime and poverty was racism. Etc. It's not one paper or one year of insanity, or you'd have a valid point. It was the continued national norm of the left for enough years to piss people off. If you missed all of it, 2016 should have been a wake up call. The demand was to lie down and take it, because you deserved it. RINO's/many elected conservatives danced to the tune and never made any headway. It was too effective of a political bludgeon to abandon. Hence, Trump. I thought there were others that might do more good for the country. My Republican brothers and sisters outvoted me in the primaries. The Democrats put someone up there I thought would do much more to the detriment of the country and the future political division. So I did vote for Trump in the general because he'd be better for the country, and I still think it holds (sorry Hillary). The resetting of the national conversation on many intra-Republican topics and nationally discussed topics is a very big plus. It doesn't overshadow the fact that Trump might still do some good, if not only four years slowing the growth of government and rolling back some regulations. You're wrong about liberals not having the chance to make amends. Myself and others were perfectly willing to believe them misled by national media reporting on the state of the country outside of coasts and metro areas. Then they doubled down on calling Trump's election illegitimate, recriminalizing Trump supporters, and basically staking their entire position to absolute resistance. Criminal leaks included. You want to win by alienating half the country, claiming you're the aggrieved alienated party, okay. Just don't come crying to me about "you're at least somewhat complacent in his racism" to ignore decades of identity group politics. You made Trump necessary, I helped elect him. He's a necessary evil. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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franzji
United States583 Posts
On October 05 2017 01:11 Plansix wrote: Voting to add states diminishes the power of other states. Given the population of PR and the way the Republicans have been dealing with the Hispanic population for the last 20 years, there is zero chance there would be enough states on board to grant statehood to PR. sure, maybe not now but once congress flips colors, or when have a new president their statehood could become a thing. also, there are pros to adding a new state for the other states, like federal taxes, ect. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35145 Posts
On October 05 2017 01:03 xDaunt wrote: So, comparing the US to a banana republic like Puerto Rico is accurate.... Okay then.... This isn't to say that the US is perfect and that we shouldn't point out its faults, but I'm quite amused to see that y'all won't even acknowledge how retarded Gahlo's statement is. And as for the point about patriotism, all y'all do on the Left is bitch about the country and call it racist and imperialistic (in a bad way), so please forgive us on the Right for being a little confused as to why we should consider you to be patriotic. Bigger scale, more autonomy, more apologists. Take the L on this one. This country isn't great, it's just okay. You can't polish a turd, you need to work it into fertilizer. If the US is so great, MAGA is pointless. I have no great love for this country. It talks a big game but rarely backs it up. I don't respect that. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On October 05 2017 01:18 Plansix wrote: The dude Xdaunt voted for won the election by running around the country saying it was garbage, but we hate America for doing the same thing. Apparently we aren’t patriots, but we could get Xdaunt’s vote. Good luck arguing that Trump and his supporters are unpatriotic. They very clearly side side with the country and the flag on just about every issue. The contrast is quite stark with y'all on the Left. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15689 Posts
On October 05 2017 01:20 xDaunt wrote: Good luck arguing that Trump and his supporters are unpatriotic. They very clearly side side with the country and the flag on just about every issue. The contrast is quite stark with y'all on the Left. Can you explain how exactly someone sides with a flag? how does someone oppose the flag? | ||
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LegalLord
United Kingdom13775 Posts
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On October 05 2017 01:18 Gahlo wrote: Bigger scale, more autonomy, more apologists. Take the L on this one. This country isn't great, it's just okay. You can't polish a turd, you need to work it into fertilizer. If the US is so great, MAGA is pointless. I have no great love for this country. It talks a big game but rarely backs it up. I don't respect that. Just when I think we can achieve some unanimity in condemning the politicization of PR hurricane relief, I run across people that will trash the US as a whole to avoid looking at PR's unique failings. Okay. If everything's already shit, PR-US-Trump, I guess we can't make any useful distinctions anymore. | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On October 05 2017 01:23 Mohdoo wrote: Can you explain how exactly someone sides with a flag? how does someone oppose the flag? Apparently by not worshipping it as infallible and all knowing... as long as a Republican is in charge (I'm not clear on this part but it seems necessary?) | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On October 05 2017 01:23 Mohdoo wrote: Can you explain how exactly someone sides with a flag? how does someone oppose the flag? Surely you have noted where the battle lines are drawn on the NFL issue. I can't think of a better example illustrating my point: the American Left is far too eager to throw the country under the bus. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On October 05 2017 01:20 xDaunt wrote: Good luck arguing that Trump and his supporters are unpatriotic. They very clearly side side with the country and the flag on just about every issue. The contrast is quite stark with y'all on the Left. Since someone’s patriotism is a matter of opinion, I doubt anyone is going to prove shit. But your argument is clear: calling out the nation’s flaws is something only you and your political allies are allowed to do. The rest of us don’t love our country. | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On October 05 2017 01:24 Danglars wrote: Just when I think we can achieve some unanimity in condemning the politicization of PR hurricane relief, I run across people that will trash the US as a whole to avoid looking at PR's unique failings. Okay. If everything's already shit, PR-US-Trump, I guess we can't make any useful distinctions anymore. See, the problem is that Left has taken subjectivist thought too far and to its ultimate conclusion -- there are no meaningful distinctions anymore. We're all the same. | ||
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On October 05 2017 01:26 xDaunt wrote: Surely you have noted where the battle lines are drawn on the NFL issue. I can't think of a better example illustrating my point: the American Left is far too eager to throw the country under the bus. Protesting and dissent is surely entirely un-American. It certainly isn't something like the method by which the country was founded by. Our patriotic view of ourselves is definitely not of freedom loving independent rebels. | ||
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Dromar
United States2145 Posts
On October 05 2017 01:20 xDaunt wrote: Good luck arguing that Trump and his supporters are unpatriotic. They very clearly side side with the country and the flag on just about every issue. The contrast is quite stark with y'all on the Left. The vocal right espouse thoroughly un-American values like denying immigrants entry to the country based on ethnicity and opposing equality for all citizens. They hide behind the American flag and "patriotism" because they are cowards. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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Mohdoo
United States15689 Posts
On October 05 2017 01:26 xDaunt wrote: Surely you have noted where the battle lines are drawn on the NFL issue. I can't think of a better example illustrating my point: the American Left is far too eager to throw the country under the bus. I would argue that having there be symbols or ideas that are considered off limits is unamerican. We are a nation born from revolution. Kicking shit over, throwing a fuss and hitting people in the nuts to get attention is who we are. We make a fuss, we make a scene and we are a generally enthusiastic bunch. Doing stuff that offends people and creates enthused dialogue is American. | ||
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Artisreal
Germany9235 Posts
On October 05 2017 01:26 xDaunt wrote: Surely you have noted where the battle lines are drawn on the NFL issue. I can't think of a better example illustrating my point: the American Left is far too eager to throw the country under the bus. the explanation asked for: |--x-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------xD-| | ||
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