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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On September 19 2017 01:57 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2017 01:49 RealityIsKing wrote:On September 19 2017 01:19 Artisreal wrote:On September 19 2017 01:14 RealityIsKing wrote:On September 19 2017 01:00 zlefin wrote:On September 19 2017 00:13 RealityIsKing wrote:
Well listen, people on this thread have already dug their heels into whatever position they want to believe.
You got Kwark, P6, zlefin who believes in white males oppression (which is historically accurate) vs LegalLord, Danglar, xDaunt who are like but that was past, the country should be mature enough to move pass that.
I personally think that the country should be divided into two via the libertarian route because it is now impossible for the two sides to see each other's point without getting violent. dividing into two seldom helps much long term; there's always differences between people and disputes over governance; many US states already have such issues within them. similar factions will form within the two new nations over time; it's better to try to change the dynamics to prevent the factionalism developing in such a fashion, and to try to find better ways to address the fundamental disputes. i'd also slightly dispute your initial characterization; some people (like myself) aren't really that dug in; and it's not so much a position they "want to believe" as a position that is correct and supported by the facts and evidence. Then be mature about it, don't go out and start name calling others who calls out the violent left. Your username makes those posts that have nothing to do with factual matters so much more hilarious. Like the"violent left" is somehow of a problem for the reality of people in this country. Or rather as if the perpetrators of said violence would discredit the actual left's goals in any form like some posters here try to argue is just tragicomic. BLM, antifa, and modern western feminism are all part of the violent left. BLM, instead of being civilized like SK protest went on to destroy community infrastructure. Antifa are anything but fascist that wants to silence freedom of speech, but they are mostly shit disturbers though. Remember #KillAllMen and #maleTears? And I thought feminism is about peace and unity? Nope. Listen there are problems with the private jail complex and zoning. The best possible way to counter that is to select leaders to run for office positions and change the policy through democratic voting, not through public destruction. So your argument is that one should take the worst of the worst of the fringe of a movement, exaggerate greatly, and then judge everyone you don't like as basically that construct you just built up, and thus come to the conclusion that they are just violent loonies. Also, no, i don't remember those hashtags at all. My guess is that they are only known within the extreme rightwing circles that love them because they make them feel justified.
Did not exaggerate, they are from the left and are violent.
This is a case of evidence staring right to your face and you being ignorant.
I can't help people like that.
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reality truly is king. sign me up for the red pill
User was temp banned for this post.
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applying that logic RiK pretty much drove a car into a crowd of protesters too right?
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On September 19 2017 02:02 RealityIsKing wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2017 01:57 Simberto wrote:On September 19 2017 01:49 RealityIsKing wrote:On September 19 2017 01:19 Artisreal wrote:On September 19 2017 01:14 RealityIsKing wrote:On September 19 2017 01:00 zlefin wrote:On September 19 2017 00:13 RealityIsKing wrote:
Well listen, people on this thread have already dug their heels into whatever position they want to believe.
You got Kwark, P6, zlefin who believes in white males oppression (which is historically accurate) vs LegalLord, Danglar, xDaunt who are like but that was past, the country should be mature enough to move pass that.
I personally think that the country should be divided into two via the libertarian route because it is now impossible for the two sides to see each other's point without getting violent. dividing into two seldom helps much long term; there's always differences between people and disputes over governance; many US states already have such issues within them. similar factions will form within the two new nations over time; it's better to try to change the dynamics to prevent the factionalism developing in such a fashion, and to try to find better ways to address the fundamental disputes. i'd also slightly dispute your initial characterization; some people (like myself) aren't really that dug in; and it's not so much a position they "want to believe" as a position that is correct and supported by the facts and evidence. Then be mature about it, don't go out and start name calling others who calls out the violent left. Your username makes those posts that have nothing to do with factual matters so much more hilarious. Like the"violent left" is somehow of a problem for the reality of people in this country. Or rather as if the perpetrators of said violence would discredit the actual left's goals in any form like some posters here try to argue is just tragicomic. BLM, antifa, and modern western feminism are all part of the violent left. BLM, instead of being civilized like SK protest went on to destroy community infrastructure. Antifa are anything but fascist that wants to silence freedom of speech, but they are mostly shit disturbers though. Remember #KillAllMen and #maleTears? And I thought feminism is about peace and unity? Nope. Listen there are problems with the private jail complex and zoning. The best possible way to counter that is to select leaders to run for office positions and change the policy through democratic voting, not through public destruction. So your argument is that one should take the worst of the worst of the fringe of a movement, exaggerate greatly, and then judge everyone you don't like as basically that construct you just built up, and thus come to the conclusion that they are just violent loonies. Also, no, i don't remember those hashtags at all. My guess is that they are only known within the extreme rightwing circles that love them because they make them feel justified. Did not exaggerate, they are from the left and are violent. This is a case of evidence staring right to your face and you being ignorant. I can't help people like that.
The problem with your way of argumenting is that it leads to you talking to your imagined leftist feminazi blm thug that you believe to be representative of "leftists", while other people talk to the ayn-rand loving ruthless racist sexist libertarian nazi that they believe to be representative of right-wing folks.
From that basis, no discussion can be had, because you are not talking to any real people that exist outside of your head.
Yes, violent people on the left do exist. They are not the majority, nor does the majority support them. Violent people also exist on the right. They are also not the majority, and i assume that the majority of right-wing people does not support them.
Your problem is that you see only the most extremes and believe that everyone to your left is like that.
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United States42004 Posts
On September 19 2017 02:11 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2017 02:02 RealityIsKing wrote:On September 19 2017 01:57 Simberto wrote:On September 19 2017 01:49 RealityIsKing wrote:On September 19 2017 01:19 Artisreal wrote:On September 19 2017 01:14 RealityIsKing wrote:On September 19 2017 01:00 zlefin wrote:On September 19 2017 00:13 RealityIsKing wrote:
Well listen, people on this thread have already dug their heels into whatever position they want to believe.
You got Kwark, P6, zlefin who believes in white males oppression (which is historically accurate) vs LegalLord, Danglar, xDaunt who are like but that was past, the country should be mature enough to move pass that.
I personally think that the country should be divided into two via the libertarian route because it is now impossible for the two sides to see each other's point without getting violent. dividing into two seldom helps much long term; there's always differences between people and disputes over governance; many US states already have such issues within them. similar factions will form within the two new nations over time; it's better to try to change the dynamics to prevent the factionalism developing in such a fashion, and to try to find better ways to address the fundamental disputes. i'd also slightly dispute your initial characterization; some people (like myself) aren't really that dug in; and it's not so much a position they "want to believe" as a position that is correct and supported by the facts and evidence. Then be mature about it, don't go out and start name calling others who calls out the violent left. Your username makes those posts that have nothing to do with factual matters so much more hilarious. Like the"violent left" is somehow of a problem for the reality of people in this country. Or rather as if the perpetrators of said violence would discredit the actual left's goals in any form like some posters here try to argue is just tragicomic. BLM, antifa, and modern western feminism are all part of the violent left. BLM, instead of being civilized like SK protest went on to destroy community infrastructure. Antifa are anything but fascist that wants to silence freedom of speech, but they are mostly shit disturbers though. Remember #KillAllMen and #maleTears? And I thought feminism is about peace and unity? Nope. Listen there are problems with the private jail complex and zoning. The best possible way to counter that is to select leaders to run for office positions and change the policy through democratic voting, not through public destruction. So your argument is that one should take the worst of the worst of the fringe of a movement, exaggerate greatly, and then judge everyone you don't like as basically that construct you just built up, and thus come to the conclusion that they are just violent loonies. Also, no, i don't remember those hashtags at all. My guess is that they are only known within the extreme rightwing circles that love them because they make them feel justified. Did not exaggerate, they are from the left and are violent. This is a case of evidence staring right to your face and you being ignorant. I can't help people like that. The problem with your way of argumenting is that it leads to you talking to your imagined leftist feminazi blm thug that you believe to be representative of "leftists", while other people talk to the ayn-rand loving ruthless racist sexist libertarian nazi that they believe to be representative of right-wing folks. From that basis, no discussion can be had, because you are not talking to any real people that exist outside of your head. Yes, violent people on the left do exist. They are not the majority, nor does the majority support them. Violent people also exist on the right. They are also not the majority, and i assume that the majority of right-wing people does not support them. Your problem is that you see only the most extremes and believe that everyone to your left is like that.
RiK has a huge number of problems. On the previous page he proposed that the country split into two with individuals voting for which country they wish to join.
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I'm quite heartened to finally see some concern from y'all on the Left regarding why it's bad to demonize everyone on one side of the aisle and lump them in with the true extremists. I look forward to y'all wholeheartedly defending people on the right when someone on the left next starts plastering everyone who supports Trump as a racist or white supremacist.
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United States42004 Posts
On September 19 2017 02:15 xDaunt wrote:
I'm quite heartened to finally see some concern from y'all on the Left regarding why it's bad to demonize everyone on one side of the aisle and lump them in with the true extremists. I look forward to y'all wholeheartedly defending people on the right when someone on the left next starts plastering everyone who supports Trump as a racist or white supremacist.
?
Racist isn't a "true extremist" position.
You're still not understanding the very basics of the other side.
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On September 19 2017 02:11 Simberto wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2017 02:02 RealityIsKing wrote:On September 19 2017 01:57 Simberto wrote:On September 19 2017 01:49 RealityIsKing wrote:On September 19 2017 01:19 Artisreal wrote:On September 19 2017 01:14 RealityIsKing wrote:On September 19 2017 01:00 zlefin wrote:On September 19 2017 00:13 RealityIsKing wrote:
Well listen, people on this thread have already dug their heels into whatever position they want to believe.
You got Kwark, P6, zlefin who believes in white males oppression (which is historically accurate) vs LegalLord, Danglar, xDaunt who are like but that was past, the country should be mature enough to move pass that.
I personally think that the country should be divided into two via the libertarian route because it is now impossible for the two sides to see each other's point without getting violent. dividing into two seldom helps much long term; there's always differences between people and disputes over governance; many US states already have such issues within them. similar factions will form within the two new nations over time; it's better to try to change the dynamics to prevent the factionalism developing in such a fashion, and to try to find better ways to address the fundamental disputes. i'd also slightly dispute your initial characterization; some people (like myself) aren't really that dug in; and it's not so much a position they "want to believe" as a position that is correct and supported by the facts and evidence. Then be mature about it, don't go out and start name calling others who calls out the violent left. Your username makes those posts that have nothing to do with factual matters so much more hilarious. Like the"violent left" is somehow of a problem for the reality of people in this country. Or rather as if the perpetrators of said violence would discredit the actual left's goals in any form like some posters here try to argue is just tragicomic. BLM, antifa, and modern western feminism are all part of the violent left. BLM, instead of being civilized like SK protest went on to destroy community infrastructure. Antifa are anything but fascist that wants to silence freedom of speech, but they are mostly shit disturbers though. Remember #KillAllMen and #maleTears? And I thought feminism is about peace and unity? Nope. Listen there are problems with the private jail complex and zoning. The best possible way to counter that is to select leaders to run for office positions and change the policy through democratic voting, not through public destruction. So your argument is that one should take the worst of the worst of the fringe of a movement, exaggerate greatly, and then judge everyone you don't like as basically that construct you just built up, and thus come to the conclusion that they are just violent loonies. Also, no, i don't remember those hashtags at all. My guess is that they are only known within the extreme rightwing circles that love them because they make them feel justified. Did not exaggerate, they are from the left and are violent. This is a case of evidence staring right to your face and you being ignorant. I can't help people like that. The problem with your way of argumenting is that it leads to you talking to your imagined leftist feminazi blm thug that you believe to be representative of "leftists", while other people talk to the ayn-rand loving ruthless racist sexist libertarian nazi that they believe to be representative of right-wing folks. From that basis, no discussion can be had, because you are not talking to any real people that exist outside of your head. Yes, violent people on the left do exist. They are not the majority, nor does the majority support them. Violent people also exist on the right. They are also not the majority, and i assume that the majority of right-wing people does not support them. Your problem is that you see only the most extremes and believe that everyone to your left is like that.
Point to me where I said everyone on the left are like that.
I specifically said the violent left.
Edit: This is exactly what I'm talking about. People digging their heels in to whoever exposes their "side".
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On September 19 2017 02:15 xDaunt wrote:
I'm quite heartened to finally see some concern from y'all on the Left regarding why it's bad to demonize everyone on one side of the aisle and lump them in with the true extremists. I look forward to y'all wholeheartedly defending people on the right when someone on the left next starts plastering everyone who supports Trump as a racist or white supremacist.
If you do not voice your condemnation of his politics, and quietly accept them, then...well, you'll be looking forward to that for a long time.
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On September 19 2017 02:15 xDaunt wrote:
I'm quite heartened to finally see some concern from y'all on the Left regarding why it's bad to demonize everyone on one side of the aisle and lump them in with the true extremists. I look forward to y'all wholeheartedly defending people on the right when someone on the left next starts plastering everyone who supports Trump as a racist or white supremacist.
I mean, it's case by case. I wasn't posting in the thread then, but I definitely argued against Mitt Romney being called white supremacist or misogynist. At risk of returning to an oft-despised topic, I think you consider "racist" to be a much more extreme accusation than some of us do. I'm probably at least somewhat racist, for instance.
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On September 19 2017 02:21 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2017 02:15 xDaunt wrote:
I'm quite heartened to finally see some concern from y'all on the Left regarding why it's bad to demonize everyone on one side of the aisle and lump them in with the true extremists. I look forward to y'all wholeheartedly defending people on the right when someone on the left next starts plastering everyone who supports Trump as a racist or white supremacist. If you do not voice your condemnation of his politics, and quietly accept them, then...well, you'll be looking forward to that for a long time.
Oh, so I can lump you in with Antifa or other Leftist extremists who riot and break things when you don't voice your condemnation of their actions. Got it.
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On September 19 2017 02:23 ChristianS wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2017 02:15 xDaunt wrote:
I'm quite heartened to finally see some concern from y'all on the Left regarding why it's bad to demonize everyone on one side of the aisle and lump them in with the true extremists. I look forward to y'all wholeheartedly defending people on the right when someone on the left next starts plastering everyone who supports Trump as a racist or white supremacist. I mean, it's case by case. I wasn't posting in the thread then, but I definitely argued against Mitt Romney being called white supremacist or misogynist. At risk of returning to an oft-despised topic, I think you consider "racist" to be a much more extreme accusation than some of us do. I'm probably at least somewhat racist, for instance.
Are y'all really going to pretend that you don't understand that the term "racist" has a stigma attached to it? Surely you understand why labeling someone a "white supremacist" has damaging consequences.
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On September 19 2017 02:24 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2017 02:21 ZerOCoolSC2 wrote:On September 19 2017 02:15 xDaunt wrote:
I'm quite heartened to finally see some concern from y'all on the Left regarding why it's bad to demonize everyone on one side of the aisle and lump them in with the true extremists. I look forward to y'all wholeheartedly defending people on the right when someone on the left next starts plastering everyone who supports Trump as a racist or white supremacist. If you do not voice your condemnation of his politics, and quietly accept them, then...well, you'll be looking forward to that for a long time. Oh, so I can lump you in with Antifa or other Leftist extremists who riot and break things when you don't voice your condemnation of their actions. Got it.
Yes. But you won't because when I participate in this thread, I do condemn senseless acts of violence.
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United States42004 Posts
On September 19 2017 02:26 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2017 02:23 ChristianS wrote:On September 19 2017 02:15 xDaunt wrote:
I'm quite heartened to finally see some concern from y'all on the Left regarding why it's bad to demonize everyone on one side of the aisle and lump them in with the true extremists. I look forward to y'all wholeheartedly defending people on the right when someone on the left next starts plastering everyone who supports Trump as a racist or white supremacist. I mean, it's case by case. I wasn't posting in the thread then, but I definitely argued against Mitt Romney being called white supremacist or misogynist. At risk of returning to an oft-despised topic, I think you consider "racist" to be a much more extreme accusation than some of us do. I'm probably at least somewhat racist, for instance. Are y'all really going to pretend that you don't understand that the term "racist" has a stigma attached to it? Surely you understand why labeling someone a "white supremacist" has damaging consequences.
If you don't like the stigma, why not try not being so racist? That'd be my first thought.
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On September 19 2017 02:26 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2017 02:23 ChristianS wrote:On September 19 2017 02:15 xDaunt wrote:
I'm quite heartened to finally see some concern from y'all on the Left regarding why it's bad to demonize everyone on one side of the aisle and lump them in with the true extremists. I look forward to y'all wholeheartedly defending people on the right when someone on the left next starts plastering everyone who supports Trump as a racist or white supremacist. I mean, it's case by case. I wasn't posting in the thread then, but I definitely argued against Mitt Romney being called white supremacist or misogynist. At risk of returning to an oft-despised topic, I think you consider "racist" to be a much more extreme accusation than some of us do. I'm probably at least somewhat racist, for instance. Are y'all really going to pretend that you don't understand that the term "racist" has a stigma attached to it? Surely you understand why labeling someone a "white supremacist" has damaging consequences.
This conversation is kind of impossible to have in the abstract. I acknowkledge that when I say "I'm at least somewhat racist" it's in a very different way than when people call PewDiePie racist. The former comes with an understanding that I'm working on it, the latter with an understanding that he should apologize and that people should publicly pressure him to change his ways. If I got fired for the former that would seem fucking insane, but when PewDiePie loses promotion deals or w/e for it, that is at least arguably reasonable.
But like I said, it's case by case.
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On September 19 2017 02:29 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2017 02:26 xDaunt wrote:On September 19 2017 02:23 ChristianS wrote:On September 19 2017 02:15 xDaunt wrote:
I'm quite heartened to finally see some concern from y'all on the Left regarding why it's bad to demonize everyone on one side of the aisle and lump them in with the true extremists. I look forward to y'all wholeheartedly defending people on the right when someone on the left next starts plastering everyone who supports Trump as a racist or white supremacist. I mean, it's case by case. I wasn't posting in the thread then, but I definitely argued against Mitt Romney being called white supremacist or misogynist. At risk of returning to an oft-despised topic, I think you consider "racist" to be a much more extreme accusation than some of us do. I'm probably at least somewhat racist, for instance. Are y'all really going to pretend that you don't understand that the term "racist" has a stigma attached to it? Surely you understand why labeling someone a "white supremacist" has damaging consequences. If you don't like the stigma, why not try not being so racist? That'd be my first thought.
xDaunt have not tried being a racist though.
He is talking about people that makes load of cash out there that specifically mislabel people racists/sexists/whatnot while they aren't.
There is a huge industry based on that.
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On September 19 2017 02:34 RealityIsKing wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2017 02:29 KwarK wrote:On September 19 2017 02:26 xDaunt wrote:On September 19 2017 02:23 ChristianS wrote:On September 19 2017 02:15 xDaunt wrote:
I'm quite heartened to finally see some concern from y'all on the Left regarding why it's bad to demonize everyone on one side of the aisle and lump them in with the true extremists. I look forward to y'all wholeheartedly defending people on the right when someone on the left next starts plastering everyone who supports Trump as a racist or white supremacist. I mean, it's case by case. I wasn't posting in the thread then, but I definitely argued against Mitt Romney being called white supremacist or misogynist. At risk of returning to an oft-despised topic, I think you consider "racist" to be a much more extreme accusation than some of us do. I'm probably at least somewhat racist, for instance. Are y'all really going to pretend that you don't understand that the term "racist" has a stigma attached to it? Surely you understand why labeling someone a "white supremacist" has damaging consequences. If you don't like the stigma, why not try not being so racist? That'd be my first thought. xDaunt have not tried being a racist though. He is talking about people that makes load of cash out there that specifically mislabel people racists/sexists/whatnot while they aren't. There is a huge industry based on that.
do you acknowledge that there is an industry of similar size on the right that seeks to mislabel people?
while there's a lot of money in media in general (and partisan-leaning media/hating on the other side); i'm not so clear that specifically mislabelling people who aren't is such a big source of cash.
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A bit off topic, but I think I missed the part of this thread where everyone collectively, led by the staunch free speech supporters, got up in arms over a government official pressuring a private institution to cancel & silence speech by someone that would be critical of them.
Anyone have links to those posts?
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On September 19 2017 02:34 RealityIsKing wrote:Show nested quote +On September 19 2017 02:29 KwarK wrote:On September 19 2017 02:26 xDaunt wrote:On September 19 2017 02:23 ChristianS wrote:On September 19 2017 02:15 xDaunt wrote:
I'm quite heartened to finally see some concern from y'all on the Left regarding why it's bad to demonize everyone on one side of the aisle and lump them in with the true extremists. I look forward to y'all wholeheartedly defending people on the right when someone on the left next starts plastering everyone who supports Trump as a racist or white supremacist. I mean, it's case by case. I wasn't posting in the thread then, but I definitely argued against Mitt Romney being called white supremacist or misogynist. At risk of returning to an oft-despised topic, I think you consider "racist" to be a much more extreme accusation than some of us do. I'm probably at least somewhat racist, for instance. Are y'all really going to pretend that you don't understand that the term "racist" has a stigma attached to it? Surely you understand why labeling someone a "white supremacist" has damaging consequences. If you don't like the stigma, why not try not being so racist? That'd be my first thought. xDaunt have not tried being a racist though. He is talking about people that makes load of cash out there that specifically mislabel people racists/sexists/whatnot while they aren't. There is a huge industry based on that.
There is no "industry" on labeling someone a racist or whatever. There are just people who jump the gun and calls someone the first thing that pops into their heads. Bill Maher used the N-word and was taken to task by a lot of people. He still has a show. Trump is still president despite his shenanigans as a human being. And xDaunt/Danglars still post on TL despite taking forever to condemn Nazis.
If there is an industry based on this, I want no part of it because it doesn't seem to be thriving.
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EPT
