|
Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
Look no farther than this thread. The media and political tactics of the era have found great success in demonizing the other side. In the short term, it is a great way to get elected. In the long term, especially if it goes on long enough were it is all some voters know, it leads to where we are now.
|
On September 07 2017 04:38 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2017 04:27 Nevuk wrote:
Wonder how many more GOP senators are going to come out and be vocally critical of the deal It very clearly is a bad deal for the GOP. However, I'm not sure that it's a bad deal for Trump. It gives Trump another bite at the apple at getting the GOP to move on his agenda. Stated another way, it looks to me like Trump threw the GOP under the bus and is starting to signal that he'll work with Democrats if Republicans won't be reliable partners.
Who is this going to punish? The moderate almost-Democrats who already don't want to vote for his agenda? The only question is how many times are the Democrats going to be betray him before he learns. He'll get some false hope if they do swamp-like things such as combine hurricane aid and a debt-ceiling increase while continuing to punt everything he promised to a "later" time.
Edit: I mean Trump may very well destroy the party that elected him, but this isn't good news for him.
Edit2:
On September 07 2017 06:48 Plansix wrote:
Raising the debt ceiling is the only responsible thing to do. Leveraging it for concessions is currently batting zero and will continue to bat zero.
Also pairing issues together in single bills is only swamp like if you consider the founding fathers to be part of the swamp. There is this really fun musical you can watch about how the National Bank and DC were created. Very swamp like, because DC is a swamp.
Combine one politically charged bill with one less so in order force through both is very swamp like. Also opens up the opportunity to stick all other sorts of spending and BS in there. This is the sort of thing people hate, although that can depend on if your party is in charge or not.
|
Raising the debt ceiling is the only responsible thing to do. Leveraging it for concessions is currently batting zero and will continue to bat zero.
Also pairing issues together in single bills is only swamp like if you consider the founding fathers to be part of the swamp. There is this really fun musical you can watch about how the National Bank and DC were created. Very swamp like, because DC is a swamp.
|
On September 07 2017 06:25 Kyadytim wrote:
I'm worried about the recent trend towards dehumanizing the other political side. I couldn't find any references, but there has been a lot of "liberals hate America" over the last year or two. I can definitely see conservatives being worried about similar trends on the left that I'm not noticing.
I remember back when there was the oh-so-fun "what is Western culture" defined as, the entire thing was spawned from some opinion piece on identity politics being the biggest threat to Western culture ever in history.
|
On September 07 2017 06:39 Introvert wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2017 04:38 xDaunt wrote:It very clearly is a bad deal for the GOP. However, I'm not sure that it's a bad deal for Trump. It gives Trump another bite at the apple at getting the GOP to move on his agenda. Stated another way, it looks to me like Trump threw the GOP under the bus and is starting to signal that he'll work with Democrats if Republicans won't be reliable partners. Who is this going to punish? The moderate almost-Democrats who already don't want to vote for his agenda? The only question is how many times are the Democrats going to be betray him before he learns. He'll get some false hope if they do swamp-like things such as combine hurricane aid and a debt-ceiling increase while continuing to punt everything he promised to a "later" time. Edit: I mean Trump may very well destroy the party that elected him, but this isn't good news for him. Edit2: Show nested quote +On September 07 2017 06:48 Plansix wrote:
Raising the debt ceiling is the only responsible thing to do. Leveraging it for concessions is currently batting zero and will continue to bat zero.
Also pairing issues together in single bills is only swamp like if you consider the founding fathers to be part of the swamp. There is this really fun musical you can watch about how the National Bank and DC were created. Very swamp like, because DC is a swamp. Combine one politically charged bill with one less so in order force through both is very swamp like. Also opens up the opportunity to stick all other sorts of spending and BS in there. This is the sort of thing people hate, although that can depend on if your party is in charge or not.
Maybe conservatives hate it. Everyone I know is saying “makes sense, we needed to do both”.
This is politics. Welcome to the party, where people cut deals. If no one is 100% happy, its likely a good days work. We have been doing it since day zero and the bill of rights.
|
lol the idea that raising the debt ceiling is some sort of left wing idea is hilarious. Probably comes from the same people who say "I can balance a checkbook! Why can't the government!?"
|
On September 07 2017 07:07 Mohdoo wrote:
lol the idea that raising the debt ceiling is some sort of left wing idea is hilarious. Probably comes from the same people who say "I can balance a checkbook! Why can't the government!?"
Notable DC Liberals, Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan, were trying to convince DJT to extend the debt limit for at least 18 months (past the 2018 elections). Liberals keep trying to extend the debt limit far enough out to protect liberal Republicans from the electoral consequences of their fiscal profligacy.
Earlier in the day, the House voted on a $7.85 billion aid package to Harvey victims. Senate Republican leaders had been planning to tie that Harvey aid to a bill to raise the debt ceiling for at least 18 months (i.e., after the November 2018 midterm elections).
...
The Post's DeBonis and Snell report that Republican leaders pushed Trump to let them try to negotiate an 18-month debt limit hike. Then they floated six months. It was to no avail. Trump took Democrats' offer of three months.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/09/06/paul-d-ryan-tying-harvey-aid-to-the-debt-ceiling-is-disgraceful-trump-lets-do-it/?utm_term=.e92d498ee429
|
I did not, of course, call it a "left-wing idea."
|
On September 07 2017 07:12 Wulfey_LA wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2017 07:07 Mohdoo wrote:
lol the idea that raising the debt ceiling is some sort of left wing idea is hilarious. Probably comes from the same people who say "I can balance a checkbook! Why can't the government!?" Notable DC Liberals, Mitch McConnell and Paul Ryan, were trying to convince DJT to extend the debt limit for at least 18 months (past the 2018 elections). Liberals keep trying to extend the debt limit far enough out to protect liberal Republicans from the electoral consequences of their fiscal profligacy. Show nested quote +
Earlier in the day, the House voted on a $7.85 billion aid package to Harvey victims. Senate Republican leaders had been planning to tie that Harvey aid to a bill to raise the debt ceiling for at least 18 months (i.e., after the November 2018 midterm elections).
...
The Post's DeBonis and Snell report that Republican leaders pushed Trump to let them try to negotiate an 18-month debt limit hike. Then they floated six months. It was to no avail. Trump took Democrats' offer of three months.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2017/09/06/paul-d-ryan-tying-harvey-aid-to-the-debt-ceiling-is-disgraceful-trump-lets-do-it/?utm_term=.e92d498ee429
The Republicans don't have the votes for an 18 month extension and they are in charge of all 3 branches. The Democrats have no reason to play along and save the Republicans from multiple potential shutdowns running up to midterms.
.
|
On September 07 2017 07:14 Introvert wrote:
I did not, of course, call it a "left-wing idea."
But you did seem to think it was some sort of contentious issue. But only the tea party conservatives make a bid deal about the debt ceiling. It has been the most non-issue thing(with the exception of one time in the 1990s) for the majority of it’s history. Only when the novice tea party conservatives showed up in Washington did we suddenly have to right over balancing our national check book. Previously, we used to fight over writing the checks themselves. But that issue requires compromise and real governance. The tea party conservatives hate that shit, because they are basic as fuck.
Edit: note, I mean elected tea party conservatives, who got elected on the promise of doing nothing but cutting spending by whatever means necessary. Who have pushed to leverage disaster relief into spending cuts in the past. This includes Pence.
|
|
|
fast forward 5 years and we've got a attack on titan'esque situation with hurricanes.
|
Jose is Cat 1 now by the way (up from tropical storm). But we can't let it make landfall. No way, Jose.
|
On September 07 2017 07:14 Introvert wrote:
I did not, of course, call it a "left-wing idea."
you were pretty clearly putting it on the left though; and implying some sort of shenanigans/impropriety when none were involved.
your swamp claims, while true in some larger sense, were clearly not apropos (especially considering how trump is so blatantly corrupt). and you used "betray" in a completely unjustified and hideously biased way.
|
|
|
|
|
Irma looks like a truly daunting disaster, no way around it. It's possibly record breaking.
|
On September 07 2017 07:37 Mohdoo wrote:fast forward 5 years and we've got a attack on titan'esque situation with hurricanes.
so we need to build a wall is what you're saying
|
On September 07 2017 08:10 ticklishmusic wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2017 07:37 Mohdoo wrote:fast forward 5 years and we've got a attack on titan'esque situation with hurricanes. so we need to build a wall is what you're saying
how about we just nuke the hurricane
|
On September 07 2017 08:10 ticklishmusic wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2017 07:37 Mohdoo wrote:fast forward 5 years and we've got a attack on titan'esque situation with hurricanes. so we need to build a wall is what you're saying
we all know how that worked out in the series, don't we?
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
