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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On February 22 2017 04:38 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2017 04:36 Ghostcom wrote:On February 22 2017 04:24 Gorsameth wrote:On February 22 2017 04:22 WolfintheSheep wrote:On February 22 2017 04:19 Bleak wrote: Thanks America, for electing Trump. This next 4 years is going to be so fun to watch. Every day I check the news and Trump says/does something which cracks me up. He never fails to deliver! The Idiocracy has come true. Irony coming from a country that elected Erdogan? Though, I guess to be fair, Erdogan generally isn't an idiot, per se. Erdogan is what Trump wants to be. Someone who turned a Democratic country into a Dictatorship. I must have missed a press meeting. Trump wants to always be right. He wants no one to question what he does. Did you miss his attacks on the Judiciary for questioning the legality of his Executive Orders? Or his goon Miller claiming the judges were not respecting the power of the president?
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On February 22 2017 04:40 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2017 04:38 Gorsameth wrote:On February 22 2017 04:36 Ghostcom wrote:On February 22 2017 04:24 Gorsameth wrote:On February 22 2017 04:22 WolfintheSheep wrote:On February 22 2017 04:19 Bleak wrote: Thanks America, for electing Trump. This next 4 years is going to be so fun to watch. Every day I check the news and Trump says/does something which cracks me up. He never fails to deliver! The Idiocracy has come true. Irony coming from a country that elected Erdogan? Though, I guess to be fair, Erdogan generally isn't an idiot, per se. Erdogan is what Trump wants to be. Someone who turned a Democratic country into a Dictatorship. I must have missed a press meeting. Trump wants to always be right. He wants no one to question what he does. Did you miss his attacks on the Judiciary for questioning the legality of his Executive Orders? Or his goon Miller claiming the judges were not respecting the power of the president?
I didn't miss any of that. Now do you seriously believe that this is equatable to an Erdogan'esque dictatorship? Please remember that we are able to have this discussion in the first place, when giving your answer.
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On February 22 2017 04:39 Ghostcom wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2017 04:38 Gorsameth wrote:On February 22 2017 04:36 Ghostcom wrote:On February 22 2017 04:24 Gorsameth wrote:On February 22 2017 04:22 WolfintheSheep wrote:On February 22 2017 04:19 Bleak wrote: Thanks America, for electing Trump. This next 4 years is going to be so fun to watch. Every day I check the news and Trump says/does something which cracks me up. He never fails to deliver! The Idiocracy has come true. Irony coming from a country that elected Erdogan? Though, I guess to be fair, Erdogan generally isn't an idiot, per se. Erdogan is what Trump wants to be. Someone who turned a Democratic country into a Dictatorship. I must have missed a press meeting. Trump wants to always be right. He wants no one to question what he does. Did you miss his attacks on the Judiciary for questioning the legality of his Executive Orders? Are you actually serious in your belief that Trump wants to turn USA into a dictatorship? A lot of people see that in Bannon and his crew. It isn’t hard. Their open distain for government and civil servants. Expressing a desire to destroy the system. Nationalist tendencies and deep dislike of the press.
People are not willing to risk saying it isn’t possible, that they would never try. Its 2017, anything is possible.
On February 22 2017 04:42 Ghostcom wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2017 04:40 Plansix wrote:On February 22 2017 04:38 Gorsameth wrote:On February 22 2017 04:36 Ghostcom wrote:On February 22 2017 04:24 Gorsameth wrote:On February 22 2017 04:22 WolfintheSheep wrote:On February 22 2017 04:19 Bleak wrote: Thanks America, for electing Trump. This next 4 years is going to be so fun to watch. Every day I check the news and Trump says/does something which cracks me up. He never fails to deliver! The Idiocracy has come true. Irony coming from a country that elected Erdogan? Though, I guess to be fair, Erdogan generally isn't an idiot, per se. Erdogan is what Trump wants to be. Someone who turned a Democratic country into a Dictatorship. I must have missed a press meeting. Trump wants to always be right. He wants no one to question what he does. Did you miss his attacks on the Judiciary for questioning the legality of his Executive Orders? Or his goon Miller claiming the judges were not respecting the power of the president? I didn't miss any of that. Now do you seriously believe that this is equatable to an Erdogan'esque dictatorship? Please remember that we are able to have this discussion in the first place, when giving your answer.
No. That doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t worry about it, however. Don’t confuse discussions about the authoritarian tendencies of Trump with a full blown fear of him turning the US into a dictatorship. People are just talking about it.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
Wouldn't be surprised if people here supported a military coup to depose Trump. For a lot of folks, their hatred of Trump burns brighter than a thousand suns.
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On February 22 2017 04:44 LegalLord wrote: Wouldn't be surprised if people here supported a military coup to depose Trump. I would be surprised if we had anyone that would support that. Most of the posters here know that would do far more harm than good.
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On February 22 2017 04:42 Ghostcom wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2017 04:40 Plansix wrote:On February 22 2017 04:38 Gorsameth wrote:On February 22 2017 04:36 Ghostcom wrote:On February 22 2017 04:24 Gorsameth wrote:On February 22 2017 04:22 WolfintheSheep wrote:On February 22 2017 04:19 Bleak wrote: Thanks America, for electing Trump. This next 4 years is going to be so fun to watch. Every day I check the news and Trump says/does something which cracks me up. He never fails to deliver! The Idiocracy has come true. Irony coming from a country that elected Erdogan? Though, I guess to be fair, Erdogan generally isn't an idiot, per se. Erdogan is what Trump wants to be. Someone who turned a Democratic country into a Dictatorship. I must have missed a press meeting. Trump wants to always be right. He wants no one to question what he does. Did you miss his attacks on the Judiciary for questioning the legality of his Executive Orders? Or his goon Miller claiming the judges were not respecting the power of the president? I didn't miss any of that. Now do you seriously believe that this is equatable to an Erdogan'esque dictatorship? Please remember that we are able to have this discussion in the first place, when giving your answer. From his actions, Trump clearly does not want judges to be able to question his executive orders. He does not want the media criticizing him. He doesn't want people on Twitter criticizing him.
He wants to be a dictator. I don't think he's inept enough to make it happen.
(By the way, you can still have this discussion in a dictatorship. As evidenced by a Turkish poster calling Erdogan a dictator)
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On February 22 2017 04:44 LegalLord wrote: Wouldn't be surprised if people here supported a military coup to depose Trump. For a lot of folks, their hatred of Trump burns brighter than a thousand suns. If he tries to Nuke China for insulting his hands then yes I would support a military coup.
Before that tho? No.
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On February 22 2017 04:44 LegalLord wrote: Wouldn't be surprised if people here supported a military coup to depose Trump. For a lot of folks, their hatred of Trump burns brighter than a thousand suns. The operative word is everything is justified because Trump is that bad. Deep state activities, judicial activism in foreign affairs, the media as opposition party (but let's face it: Dems we're doing such a bad job that it was easy for them to shine in that role).
But, you know, we're stuck in blame and counter-blame at who's the fascists and who's breaking apart the country.
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On February 22 2017 04:44 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2017 04:39 Ghostcom wrote:On February 22 2017 04:38 Gorsameth wrote:On February 22 2017 04:36 Ghostcom wrote:On February 22 2017 04:24 Gorsameth wrote:On February 22 2017 04:22 WolfintheSheep wrote:On February 22 2017 04:19 Bleak wrote: Thanks America, for electing Trump. This next 4 years is going to be so fun to watch. Every day I check the news and Trump says/does something which cracks me up. He never fails to deliver! The Idiocracy has come true. Irony coming from a country that elected Erdogan? Though, I guess to be fair, Erdogan generally isn't an idiot, per se. Erdogan is what Trump wants to be. Someone who turned a Democratic country into a Dictatorship. I must have missed a press meeting. Trump wants to always be right. He wants no one to question what he does. Did you miss his attacks on the Judiciary for questioning the legality of his Executive Orders? Are you actually serious in your belief that Trump wants to turn USA into a dictatorship? A lot of people see that in Bannon and his crew. It isn’t hard. Their open distain for government and civil servants. Expressing a desire to destroy the system. Nationalist tendencies and deep dislike of the press. People are not willing to risk saying it isn’t possible, that they would never try. Its 2017, anything is possible. Show nested quote +On February 22 2017 04:42 Ghostcom wrote:On February 22 2017 04:40 Plansix wrote:On February 22 2017 04:38 Gorsameth wrote:On February 22 2017 04:36 Ghostcom wrote:On February 22 2017 04:24 Gorsameth wrote:On February 22 2017 04:22 WolfintheSheep wrote:On February 22 2017 04:19 Bleak wrote: Thanks America, for electing Trump. This next 4 years is going to be so fun to watch. Every day I check the news and Trump says/does something which cracks me up. He never fails to deliver! The Idiocracy has come true. Irony coming from a country that elected Erdogan? Though, I guess to be fair, Erdogan generally isn't an idiot, per se. Erdogan is what Trump wants to be. Someone who turned a Democratic country into a Dictatorship. I must have missed a press meeting. Trump wants to always be right. He wants no one to question what he does. Did you miss his attacks on the Judiciary for questioning the legality of his Executive Orders? Or his goon Miller claiming the judges were not respecting the power of the president? I didn't miss any of that. Now do you seriously believe that this is equatable to an Erdogan'esque dictatorship? Please remember that we are able to have this discussion in the first place, when giving your answer. No. That doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t worry about it, however. Don’t confuse discussions about the authoritarian tendencies of Trump with a full blown fear of him turning the US into a dictatorship. People are just talking about it.
Oh Plansix, never change.
EDIT: Stating that Trump wants a dictatorship as if it was a fact without backing it up isn't talking about it. It's skipping the entire "talking about it" and jumping straight to a (dubious) conclusion. Of course you know this already, but it wasn't really convenient for you to acknowledge it.
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On February 22 2017 04:52 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2017 04:44 LegalLord wrote: Wouldn't be surprised if people here supported a military coup to depose Trump. For a lot of folks, their hatred of Trump burns brighter than a thousand suns. The operative word is everything is justified because Trump is that bad. Deep state activities, judicial activism in foreign affairs, the media as opposition party (but let's face it: Dems we're doing such a bad job that it was easy for them to shine in that role). But, you know, we're stuck in blame and counter-blame at who's the fascists and who's breaking apart the country.
Cooperation with a foreign adversary is a bigger issue than all of those. As is openly encouraging a foreign adversary to conduct cyber crime against one's campaign opponent.
But hey...the media is bad.
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On February 22 2017 03:27 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2017 03:22 Blisse wrote: Any defense of Hillary just feeds into LL's egotistical blanket denial of "somehow has a core base of supporters who explain away every single one of her mistakes and failures (no easy task)" so really what's the point of going through this like the 30th time. I mean, when her record looks like one of failure after failure, blunder after blunder, and for each of those blunders there is someone there to explain it away (it was the Russians/Republicans/this is normal/she had no choice because the election season was just so uncooperative/no one except everyone could have predicted this is how it would go/etc) it starts to be a rather reasonable blanket dismissal. What do you think it proves that for each criticism of her, there is also someone making an argument in her defense? Isn't that normally how arguments work - there's two sides to every question, and they argue about who's right?
For all your fuss about the 'electability' argument, it seems perfectly rational in a primary to consider not just which candidate you like better, but which is more likely to win the general, and based on the information we had at the time it still seems reasonable to think that she was more likely to win. Bernie never went through the scrutiny of a general election, so it's a little hard to make apples-to-apples comparisons, but the Republicans were nominating an absolute crazy person and the conventional wisdom was that he had no chance of winning unless something really stupid happened. Nominating someone who could similarly be branded as totally crazy seemed like it could be just the stupid thing to get Trump elected.
Again, the only reason we can say now that she isn't more likely to beat Trump is because Bernie's hypothetical general election campaign is still an unknown, while hers is a certainty. If I'm offered a 3/4 bet or a 5/8 bet, I should take the 3/4 bet. If I lose that bet it doesn't make sense to say "aw, should have taken the 5/8".
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On Feb. 20, riots broke out in a predominantly immigrant neighborhood in the northern suburbs of Stockholm. The riot comes two days after President Trump implied that immigrants had perpetrated a recent spate of violence in Sweden. (Jason Aldag, Max Bearak/The Washington Post)
Just two days after President Trump provoked widespread consternation by seeming to imply, incorrectly, that immigrants had perpetrated a recent spate of violence in Sweden, riots broke out in a predominantly immigrant neighborhood in the northern suburbs of the country's capital, Stockholm.
The neighborhood, Rinkeby, was the scene of riots in 2010 and 2013, too. And in most ways, what happened Monday night was reminiscent of those earlier bouts of anger. Swedish police apparently made an arrest about 8 p.m. near the Rinkeby station. For reasons not yet disclosed by the police, word of the arrest prompted youths to gather.
Over four hours, the crowd burned about half a dozen cars, vandalized several shopfronts and threw rocks at police. Police spokesman Lars Bystrom confirmed to Sweden's Dagens Nyheter newspaper that an officer fired shots with the intention to hit a rioter but did not strike his target. A photographer for the newspaper was attacked by more than a dozen men and his camera was stolen, but ultimately no one was hurt or even arrested.
Bystrom added, “This kind of situation doesn’t happen that often, but it is always regrettable when they happen.” Source
Wonderful.
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On February 22 2017 04:56 Ghostcom wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2017 04:44 Plansix wrote:On February 22 2017 04:39 Ghostcom wrote:On February 22 2017 04:38 Gorsameth wrote:On February 22 2017 04:36 Ghostcom wrote:On February 22 2017 04:24 Gorsameth wrote:On February 22 2017 04:22 WolfintheSheep wrote:On February 22 2017 04:19 Bleak wrote: Thanks America, for electing Trump. This next 4 years is going to be so fun to watch. Every day I check the news and Trump says/does something which cracks me up. He never fails to deliver! The Idiocracy has come true. Irony coming from a country that elected Erdogan? Though, I guess to be fair, Erdogan generally isn't an idiot, per se. Erdogan is what Trump wants to be. Someone who turned a Democratic country into a Dictatorship. I must have missed a press meeting. Trump wants to always be right. He wants no one to question what he does. Did you miss his attacks on the Judiciary for questioning the legality of his Executive Orders? Are you actually serious in your belief that Trump wants to turn USA into a dictatorship? A lot of people see that in Bannon and his crew. It isn’t hard. Their open distain for government and civil servants. Expressing a desire to destroy the system. Nationalist tendencies and deep dislike of the press. People are not willing to risk saying it isn’t possible, that they would never try. Its 2017, anything is possible. On February 22 2017 04:42 Ghostcom wrote:On February 22 2017 04:40 Plansix wrote:On February 22 2017 04:38 Gorsameth wrote:On February 22 2017 04:36 Ghostcom wrote:On February 22 2017 04:24 Gorsameth wrote:On February 22 2017 04:22 WolfintheSheep wrote:On February 22 2017 04:19 Bleak wrote: Thanks America, for electing Trump. This next 4 years is going to be so fun to watch. Every day I check the news and Trump says/does something which cracks me up. He never fails to deliver! The Idiocracy has come true. Irony coming from a country that elected Erdogan? Though, I guess to be fair, Erdogan generally isn't an idiot, per se. Erdogan is what Trump wants to be. Someone who turned a Democratic country into a Dictatorship. I must have missed a press meeting. Trump wants to always be right. He wants no one to question what he does. Did you miss his attacks on the Judiciary for questioning the legality of his Executive Orders? Or his goon Miller claiming the judges were not respecting the power of the president? I didn't miss any of that. Now do you seriously believe that this is equatable to an Erdogan'esque dictatorship? Please remember that we are able to have this discussion in the first place, when giving your answer. No. That doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t worry about it, however. Don’t confuse discussions about the authoritarian tendencies of Trump with a full blown fear of him turning the US into a dictatorship. People are just talking about it. Oh Plansix, never change. You’re the one who came in there asking a whole bunch of leading questions. “Do you really believe he could turn the US in to a dictatorship?” You might as well have said “Can you give me a reason to call you stupid?” It would have been more direct.
I’ve seen a lot of things in US politics since the 1980, but nothing like Trump and his clowns.
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On February 22 2017 05:00 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2017 04:56 Ghostcom wrote:On February 22 2017 04:44 Plansix wrote:On February 22 2017 04:39 Ghostcom wrote:On February 22 2017 04:38 Gorsameth wrote:On February 22 2017 04:36 Ghostcom wrote:On February 22 2017 04:24 Gorsameth wrote:On February 22 2017 04:22 WolfintheSheep wrote:On February 22 2017 04:19 Bleak wrote: Thanks America, for electing Trump. This next 4 years is going to be so fun to watch. Every day I check the news and Trump says/does something which cracks me up. He never fails to deliver! The Idiocracy has come true. Irony coming from a country that elected Erdogan? Though, I guess to be fair, Erdogan generally isn't an idiot, per se. Erdogan is what Trump wants to be. Someone who turned a Democratic country into a Dictatorship. I must have missed a press meeting. Trump wants to always be right. He wants no one to question what he does. Did you miss his attacks on the Judiciary for questioning the legality of his Executive Orders? Are you actually serious in your belief that Trump wants to turn USA into a dictatorship? A lot of people see that in Bannon and his crew. It isn’t hard. Their open distain for government and civil servants. Expressing a desire to destroy the system. Nationalist tendencies and deep dislike of the press. People are not willing to risk saying it isn’t possible, that they would never try. Its 2017, anything is possible. On February 22 2017 04:42 Ghostcom wrote:On February 22 2017 04:40 Plansix wrote:On February 22 2017 04:38 Gorsameth wrote:On February 22 2017 04:36 Ghostcom wrote:On February 22 2017 04:24 Gorsameth wrote:On February 22 2017 04:22 WolfintheSheep wrote:On February 22 2017 04:19 Bleak wrote: Thanks America, for electing Trump. This next 4 years is going to be so fun to watch. Every day I check the news and Trump says/does something which cracks me up. He never fails to deliver! The Idiocracy has come true. Irony coming from a country that elected Erdogan? Though, I guess to be fair, Erdogan generally isn't an idiot, per se. Erdogan is what Trump wants to be. Someone who turned a Democratic country into a Dictatorship. I must have missed a press meeting. Trump wants to always be right. He wants no one to question what he does. Did you miss his attacks on the Judiciary for questioning the legality of his Executive Orders? Or his goon Miller claiming the judges were not respecting the power of the president? I didn't miss any of that. Now do you seriously believe that this is equatable to an Erdogan'esque dictatorship? Please remember that we are able to have this discussion in the first place, when giving your answer. No. That doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t worry about it, however. Don’t confuse discussions about the authoritarian tendencies of Trump with a full blown fear of him turning the US into a dictatorship. People are just talking about it. Oh Plansix, never change. You’re the one who came in there asking a whole bunch of leading questions. “Do you really believe he could turn the US in to a dictatorship?” You might as well have said “Can you give me a reason to call you stupid?” It would have been more direct. I’ve seen a lot of things in US politics since the 1980, but nothing like Trump and his clowns.
Read the thread again. Gorsamth made an outrageous claim with no support. I asked explorative questions, but as usual you are dishonest in your posting.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On February 22 2017 04:59 ChristianS wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2017 03:27 LegalLord wrote:On February 22 2017 03:22 Blisse wrote: Any defense of Hillary just feeds into LL's egotistical blanket denial of "somehow has a core base of supporters who explain away every single one of her mistakes and failures (no easy task)" so really what's the point of going through this like the 30th time. I mean, when her record looks like one of failure after failure, blunder after blunder, and for each of those blunders there is someone there to explain it away (it was the Russians/Republicans/this is normal/she had no choice because the election season was just so uncooperative/no one except everyone could have predicted this is how it would go/etc) it starts to be a rather reasonable blanket dismissal. What do you think it proves that for each criticism of her, there is also someone making an argument in her defense? Isn't that normally how arguments work - there's two sides to every question, and they argue about who's right? Usually when you argue in favor of someone, you aren't spending 90% of the time saying "I know he/she looks bad, but here's why his/her mistakes are nbd." Because generally there's no need to.
And no, the poor perception of Hillary isn't just an unfair Republican plot to undermine her. It's easy to blame Russia, or the Republicans, or racists, or whatever else, but it doesn't make it true.
I could give further reasons why I would say Bernie was the better choice - but I think I gave more than enough in the earlier post. He was polling better for the general, easily. And yet whether or not he would have won seems even more irrelevant than Hillary, who was so electable she can't lose.
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maybe they spend so much time in defense because a large number of people are engaging in irrational and unsound attacks? especially since it's the internet, and therefore most of the overall talking comes from the crazies and people countering them, rather than a reasonable nuanced analysis.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On February 22 2017 05:00 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2017 04:56 Ghostcom wrote:On February 22 2017 04:44 Plansix wrote:On February 22 2017 04:39 Ghostcom wrote:On February 22 2017 04:38 Gorsameth wrote:On February 22 2017 04:36 Ghostcom wrote:On February 22 2017 04:24 Gorsameth wrote:On February 22 2017 04:22 WolfintheSheep wrote:On February 22 2017 04:19 Bleak wrote: Thanks America, for electing Trump. This next 4 years is going to be so fun to watch. Every day I check the news and Trump says/does something which cracks me up. He never fails to deliver! The Idiocracy has come true. Irony coming from a country that elected Erdogan? Though, I guess to be fair, Erdogan generally isn't an idiot, per se. Erdogan is what Trump wants to be. Someone who turned a Democratic country into a Dictatorship. I must have missed a press meeting. Trump wants to always be right. He wants no one to question what he does. Did you miss his attacks on the Judiciary for questioning the legality of his Executive Orders? Are you actually serious in your belief that Trump wants to turn USA into a dictatorship? A lot of people see that in Bannon and his crew. It isn’t hard. Their open distain for government and civil servants. Expressing a desire to destroy the system. Nationalist tendencies and deep dislike of the press. People are not willing to risk saying it isn’t possible, that they would never try. Its 2017, anything is possible. On February 22 2017 04:42 Ghostcom wrote:On February 22 2017 04:40 Plansix wrote:On February 22 2017 04:38 Gorsameth wrote:On February 22 2017 04:36 Ghostcom wrote:On February 22 2017 04:24 Gorsameth wrote:On February 22 2017 04:22 WolfintheSheep wrote:On February 22 2017 04:19 Bleak wrote: Thanks America, for electing Trump. This next 4 years is going to be so fun to watch. Every day I check the news and Trump says/does something which cracks me up. He never fails to deliver! The Idiocracy has come true. Irony coming from a country that elected Erdogan? Though, I guess to be fair, Erdogan generally isn't an idiot, per se. Erdogan is what Trump wants to be. Someone who turned a Democratic country into a Dictatorship. I must have missed a press meeting. Trump wants to always be right. He wants no one to question what he does. Did you miss his attacks on the Judiciary for questioning the legality of his Executive Orders? Or his goon Miller claiming the judges were not respecting the power of the president? I didn't miss any of that. Now do you seriously believe that this is equatable to an Erdogan'esque dictatorship? Please remember that we are able to have this discussion in the first place, when giving your answer. No. That doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t worry about it, however. Don’t confuse discussions about the authoritarian tendencies of Trump with a full blown fear of him turning the US into a dictatorship. People are just talking about it. Oh Plansix, never change. You’re the one who came in there asking a whole bunch of leading questions. “Do you really believe he could turn the US in to a dictatorship?” You might as well have said “Can you give me a reason to call you stupid?” It would have been more direct. I’ve seen a lot of things in US politics since the 1980, but nothing like Trump and his clowns. Eh, every question you don't like has a tendency to be dismissed as a leading question. Seems like a defense of holding contradictory opinions in my experience.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
In Trump’s future looms a familiar shutdown threat
WASHINGTON — Add a potential government shutdown to President Donald Trump’s growing roster of headaches.
Beneath the capital’s radar looms a vexing problem — a catchall spending package that’s likely to top $1 trillion and could get embroiled in the politics of building Trump’s wall at the U.S.-Mexico border and a budget-busting Pentagon request.
While a shutdown deadline has a few weeks to go, the huge measure looms as an unpleasant reality check for Trump and Republicans controlling Congress.
Despite the big power shift in Washington, the path to success — and averting a shuttering of the government — goes directly through Senate Democrats, whose votes are required to pass the measure. And any measure that satisfies Democrats and their new leader, Sen. Chuck Schumer of New York, is sure to alienate tea party Republicans. Trump’s determination to build his wall on the U.S.-Mexico border faces a fight with Democrats, too.
For now, the new Democratic leader is cautious.
“We’ll have to wait and see what happens,” Schumer said. “I hope they won’t jam up the supplemental (spending bill) with poison pills.”
At issue is the annual must-do legislation funding government agencies and departments. The path for the huge spending measure — by Republicans’ own choice a piece of leftover business from last year — would be difficult and complicated in a smoothly running Washington. But partisanship has engulfed the city, and the upcoming measure is made even more challenging once upcoming Trump requests for $18 billion or more for the Pentagon and money for his contentious border wall are added to the mix.
For years, Republicans needed President Barack Obama’s signoff and relied on Democratic votes to pass the measures and balance out opposition from tea partyers.
Trump’s election has shifted the balance of power in Washington, but the GOP’s grip on the Senate — where 60 votes are needed for most legislation — is actually weaker. Some House conservatives are demanding a round of budget cuts to “offset” new spending on the Pentagon and Trump’s wall.
“If all of a sudden we’re not worried about pay-fors for our spending, then we have been hypocrites,” said tea party Rep. Raul Labrador, R-Idaho. “I’m not going to vote for anything that just increases spending without looking for a way to pay for that in the future.”
That’s far easier said than done, especially with the budget year nearly half over. Democrats might accept the Pentagon funding — aimed at reversing what Pentagon hawks see as a slide in the military’s ability to prepare against new threats — even though it would unravel a hard-won 2015 budget pact. But they won’t stand for cuts to domestic programs to pay for it, and neither will more pragmatic Republicans.
“I don’t think we’d be able to jam anything through that didn’t have some significant buy-in by Democrats,” Sen. Roy Blunt, R-Mo., said.
Lawmakers face an April 28 deadline, which seems like plenty of time. The administration, however, is off to a slow start, just last Wednesday winning Senate confirmation of its budget director, Mick Mulvaney, who has his hands full with Trump’s broader budget submission for the upcoming year as well as plans for the supplemental Pentagon spending or the border wall
It’s all complicated by the tumult surrounding Trump’s presidency, including his low approval ratings and vehement opposition from rank-and-file Democrats still stinging from Trump’s upset victory and his provocative travel ban.
GOP leaders like House Speaker Paul Ryan of Wisconsin are eager to avert any shutdown. The most recent one, caused by House Republicans, came as tea party lawmakers insisted on a failed strategy of using shutdown threats as leverage to try to block implementation of Obama’s health care law.
An end-of-April shutdown still seems unlikely. Neither Republicans nor Democrats want that. But a stumble is possible if Senate Democrats filibuster the measure over budget additions like the border wall with Mexico.
And in the House, dysfunction is always possible, especially if conservatives shun the measure as they have with previous bipartisan versions of spending bills. That led top leaders like then-Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio, to turn to House Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi, hat in hand, to get enough votes. Now, with Trump in the White House, House Democrats can’t be counted upon to help.
“If they need Democratic votes, because some of their people will vote for nothing, as you well know, then we’ll have to talk,” Pelosi said. “But I fear that if they don’t need Democratic votes, the product would be something very horrible for the American people.”
And there’s still the Senate, where Republicans hold a 52-48 edge, short of filibuster-proof 60.
“So it doesn’t mean just because (Republicans) have a majority in the House, a majority in the Senate and now the White House that we can do anything we want,” Rep. Mike Simpson, R-Idaho, said. Source
Double, double, toil and trouble. This is fun.
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On February 22 2017 05:02 Ghostcom wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2017 05:00 Plansix wrote:On February 22 2017 04:56 Ghostcom wrote:On February 22 2017 04:44 Plansix wrote:On February 22 2017 04:39 Ghostcom wrote:On February 22 2017 04:38 Gorsameth wrote:On February 22 2017 04:36 Ghostcom wrote:On February 22 2017 04:24 Gorsameth wrote:On February 22 2017 04:22 WolfintheSheep wrote:On February 22 2017 04:19 Bleak wrote: Thanks America, for electing Trump. This next 4 years is going to be so fun to watch. Every day I check the news and Trump says/does something which cracks me up. He never fails to deliver! The Idiocracy has come true. Irony coming from a country that elected Erdogan? Though, I guess to be fair, Erdogan generally isn't an idiot, per se. Erdogan is what Trump wants to be. Someone who turned a Democratic country into a Dictatorship. I must have missed a press meeting. Trump wants to always be right. He wants no one to question what he does. Did you miss his attacks on the Judiciary for questioning the legality of his Executive Orders? Are you actually serious in your belief that Trump wants to turn USA into a dictatorship? A lot of people see that in Bannon and his crew. It isn’t hard. Their open distain for government and civil servants. Expressing a desire to destroy the system. Nationalist tendencies and deep dislike of the press. People are not willing to risk saying it isn’t possible, that they would never try. Its 2017, anything is possible. On February 22 2017 04:42 Ghostcom wrote:On February 22 2017 04:40 Plansix wrote:On February 22 2017 04:38 Gorsameth wrote:On February 22 2017 04:36 Ghostcom wrote:On February 22 2017 04:24 Gorsameth wrote:On February 22 2017 04:22 WolfintheSheep wrote: [quote] Irony coming from a country that elected Erdogan?
Though, I guess to be fair, Erdogan generally isn't an idiot, per se. Erdogan is what Trump wants to be. Someone who turned a Democratic country into a Dictatorship. I must have missed a press meeting. Trump wants to always be right. He wants no one to question what he does. Did you miss his attacks on the Judiciary for questioning the legality of his Executive Orders? Or his goon Miller claiming the judges were not respecting the power of the president? I didn't miss any of that. Now do you seriously believe that this is equatable to an Erdogan'esque dictatorship? Please remember that we are able to have this discussion in the first place, when giving your answer. No. That doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t worry about it, however. Don’t confuse discussions about the authoritarian tendencies of Trump with a full blown fear of him turning the US into a dictatorship. People are just talking about it. Oh Plansix, never change. You’re the one who came in there asking a whole bunch of leading questions. “Do you really believe he could turn the US in to a dictatorship?” You might as well have said “Can you give me a reason to call you stupid?” It would have been more direct. I’ve seen a lot of things in US politics since the 1980, but nothing like Trump and his clowns. Read the thread again. Gorsamth made an outrageous claim with no support. I asked explorative questions, but as usual you are dishonest in your posting. Gorsamth is a regular in this thread and his political leanings are known. Anyone who read that discussion knows it is a pretty frivolously one that mostly poking fun at Trumps dislike of being told no and his constant attacks on the press. If you are going to take everything people post as deadly serious and 100% verifiable claim, won’t recommending coming here. That isn’t really the tone of discussion, especially post election.
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On February 22 2017 05:02 Ghostcom wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2017 05:00 Plansix wrote:On February 22 2017 04:56 Ghostcom wrote:On February 22 2017 04:44 Plansix wrote:On February 22 2017 04:39 Ghostcom wrote:On February 22 2017 04:38 Gorsameth wrote:On February 22 2017 04:36 Ghostcom wrote:On February 22 2017 04:24 Gorsameth wrote:On February 22 2017 04:22 WolfintheSheep wrote:On February 22 2017 04:19 Bleak wrote: Thanks America, for electing Trump. This next 4 years is going to be so fun to watch. Every day I check the news and Trump says/does something which cracks me up. He never fails to deliver! The Idiocracy has come true. Irony coming from a country that elected Erdogan? Though, I guess to be fair, Erdogan generally isn't an idiot, per se. Erdogan is what Trump wants to be. Someone who turned a Democratic country into a Dictatorship. I must have missed a press meeting. Trump wants to always be right. He wants no one to question what he does. Did you miss his attacks on the Judiciary for questioning the legality of his Executive Orders? Are you actually serious in your belief that Trump wants to turn USA into a dictatorship? A lot of people see that in Bannon and his crew. It isn’t hard. Their open distain for government and civil servants. Expressing a desire to destroy the system. Nationalist tendencies and deep dislike of the press. People are not willing to risk saying it isn’t possible, that they would never try. Its 2017, anything is possible. On February 22 2017 04:42 Ghostcom wrote:On February 22 2017 04:40 Plansix wrote:On February 22 2017 04:38 Gorsameth wrote:On February 22 2017 04:36 Ghostcom wrote:On February 22 2017 04:24 Gorsameth wrote:On February 22 2017 04:22 WolfintheSheep wrote: [quote] Irony coming from a country that elected Erdogan?
Though, I guess to be fair, Erdogan generally isn't an idiot, per se. Erdogan is what Trump wants to be. Someone who turned a Democratic country into a Dictatorship. I must have missed a press meeting. Trump wants to always be right. He wants no one to question what he does. Did you miss his attacks on the Judiciary for questioning the legality of his Executive Orders? Or his goon Miller claiming the judges were not respecting the power of the president? I didn't miss any of that. Now do you seriously believe that this is equatable to an Erdogan'esque dictatorship? Please remember that we are able to have this discussion in the first place, when giving your answer. No. That doesn’t mean that we shouldn’t worry about it, however. Don’t confuse discussions about the authoritarian tendencies of Trump with a full blown fear of him turning the US into a dictatorship. People are just talking about it. Oh Plansix, never change. You’re the one who came in there asking a whole bunch of leading questions. “Do you really believe he could turn the US in to a dictatorship?” You might as well have said “Can you give me a reason to call you stupid?” It would have been more direct. I’ve seen a lot of things in US politics since the 1980, but nothing like Trump and his clowns. Read the thread again. Gorsamth made an outrageous claim with no support. I asked explorative questions, but as usual you are dishonest in your posting. Gorsameth said that Trump wants to be a dictator, not that he is.
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