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On February 22 2017 03:56 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2017 03:51 LegalLord wrote:On February 22 2017 03:45 WolfintheSheep wrote:On February 22 2017 03:42 LegalLord wrote:
Guess there was just no choice for the Democrats, no possible outcome that could have happened other than Trump being elected president. If Trump>Hillary and Hillary>Bernie then Trump>Bernie by transitivity. There was just no hope of winning and we should resign to our fate. There was no choice but to lose. She could have won by running a better campaign. Dang, never thought of that. Are we talking specific improvements, or a vague "she made unspecified mistakes but here is why every single specific criticism of her is wrong" dismissal? I'd say less time focusing on how much of a buffoon Trump is, and more time focusing on the policies and plans that show why you want a politician or lawmaker in office as opposed to a buffoon. But then, the US has never experienced someone like Trump running for office before, so it's hard to say if the population really wants to believe that a Presidential candidate can actually make promises without any substance behind them. So maybe she just needed to get on his level and claim she could make the world spin backward.
Every time she talked policy people ignored her and listened to Trumps dumb comment number 453 instead.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On February 22 2017 03:56 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2017 03:51 LegalLord wrote:On February 22 2017 03:45 WolfintheSheep wrote:On February 22 2017 03:42 LegalLord wrote:
Guess there was just no choice for the Democrats, no possible outcome that could have happened other than Trump being elected president. If Trump>Hillary and Hillary>Bernie then Trump>Bernie by transitivity. There was just no hope of winning and we should resign to our fate. There was no choice but to lose. She could have won by running a better campaign. Dang, never thought of that. Are we talking specific improvements, or a vague "she made unspecified mistakes but here is why every single specific criticism of her is wrong" dismissal? I'd say less time focusing on how much of a buffoon Trump is, and more time focusing on the policies and plans that show why you want a politician or lawmaker in office as opposed to a buffoon.
That would help. Trouble is that Hillary just thought that with Trump as the opposition she couldn't possibly lose - so she was as inflexible and unchanging as one could possibly be. She made the opening, which turned into an upset.
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I don’t know why you folks even bother. You have presented all this information to LL before and he didn’t give a shit then. This is his pet issue and he will continue to bring it up for whatever bullshit reasons he can cook up on a given day.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On February 22 2017 03:36 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2017 03:27 LegalLord wrote:On February 22 2017 03:22 Blisse wrote:
Any defense of Hillary just feeds into LL's egotistical blanket denial of "somehow has a core base of supporters who explain away every single one of her mistakes and failures (no easy task)" so really what's the point of going through this like the 30th time. I mean, when her record looks like one of failure after failure, blunder after blunder, and for each of those blunders there is someone there to explain it away (it was the Russians/Republicans/this is normal/she had no choice because the election season was just so uncooperative/no one except everyone could have predicted this is how it would go/etc) it starts to be a rather reasonable blanket dismissal. Reality is that your country elected the person who made the biggest promises, and if you're lucky Trump will crash and burn hard enough that those voters realize promises aren't much better than wishes.
We were there before, it was called George W Bush. And we're back there, with an even worse scenario.
Truth is that the US is likely to keep doing this shit for the next few decades. Probably going to sabotage its international reputation in the process. Oh well, the European sycophants are kind of tiresome anyways.
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On February 22 2017 04:11 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2017 03:36 WolfintheSheep wrote:On February 22 2017 03:27 LegalLord wrote:On February 22 2017 03:22 Blisse wrote:
Any defense of Hillary just feeds into LL's egotistical blanket denial of "somehow has a core base of supporters who explain away every single one of her mistakes and failures (no easy task)" so really what's the point of going through this like the 30th time. I mean, when her record looks like one of failure after failure, blunder after blunder, and for each of those blunders there is someone there to explain it away (it was the Russians/Republicans/this is normal/she had no choice because the election season was just so uncooperative/no one except everyone could have predicted this is how it would go/etc) it starts to be a rather reasonable blanket dismissal. Reality is that your country elected the person who made the biggest promises, and if you're lucky Trump will crash and burn hard enough that those voters realize promises aren't much better than wishes. We were there before, it was called George W Bush. And we're back there, with an even worse scenario. Truth is that the US is likely to keep doing this shit for the next few decades. Probably going to sabotage its international reputation in the process. Oh well, the European sycophants are kind of tiresome anyways.
As bad as George W Bush was, he was still a career politician that had experience working his way up the chain. He made bad policy decisions, but at least he knew how to create policies.
I'm quite certain that Trump just thinks the President saying something just makes it happen.
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Thanks America, for electing Trump. This next 4 years is going to be so fun to watch. Every day I check the news and Trump says/does something which cracks me up. He never fails to deliver! The Idiocracy has come true.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
I'm enjoying watching how people look at the US from abroad nowadays. It amuses me.
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On February 22 2017 04:19 Bleak wrote:
Thanks America, for electing Trump. This next 4 years is going to be so fun to watch. Every day I check the news and Trump says/does something which cracks me up. He never fails to deliver! The Idiocracy has come true.
Irony coming from a country that elected Erdogan?
Though, I guess to be fair, Erdogan generally isn't an idiot, per se.
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The thing is it has pretty much always been the outsider candidate who wins in US presidential races. It doesn't really matter if the person is actually an outsider, it is whoever presents themselves more beliviably as one. OTM had a pretty good overview of it:
http://www.wnyc.org/story/history-political-outsider/
Both candidates ran campaigns fundamentally disconnected from reality on one level or another. Hillary ignored the wants and desires of the average person, while Trump flat out ignored facts.
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On February 22 2017 04:22 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2017 04:19 Bleak wrote:
Thanks America, for electing Trump. This next 4 years is going to be so fun to watch. Every day I check the news and Trump says/does something which cracks me up. He never fails to deliver! The Idiocracy has come true. Irony coming from a country that elected Erdogan? Though, I guess to be fair, Erdogan generally isn't an idiot, per se.
Erdogan is what Trump wants to be. Someone who turned a Democratic country into a Dictatorship.
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On February 22 2017 04:24 Nevuk wrote:The thing is it has pretty much always been the outsider candidate who wins in US presidential races. It doesn't really matter if the person is actually an outsider, it is whoever presents themselves more beliviably as one. OTM had a pretty good overview of it: http://www.wnyc.org/story/history-political-outsider/Both candidates ran campaigns fundamentally disconnected from reality on one level or another. Hillary ignored the wants and desires of the average person, while Trump flat out ignored facts.
hillary didn't ignore the wants and desires of the average person; she failed to communicate that she cared and what her plans were for addressing them.
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On February 22 2017 04:22 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2017 04:19 Bleak wrote:
Thanks America, for electing Trump. This next 4 years is going to be so fun to watch. Every day I check the news and Trump says/does something which cracks me up. He never fails to deliver! The Idiocracy has come true. Irony coming from a country that elected Erdogan? Though, I guess to be fair, Erdogan generally isn't an idiot, per se.
Well we are used to it after 15 years. And yes, he is not an idiot at all. He is clever, manipulative and knows how to play with the general public. I don't see how my comment is ironic.
I personally think the democracy can only work with a small number of educated, well informed elites. It quickly devolves to the tyranny of majority when these criterion are not met (unless you have a super solid, unshakeable foundation supported by checks&balances, legal system etc.). The masses and systems are easy to manipulate. What gets Trump and Erdogan elected is the same: ignorance of the masses and their manipulation.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
Hard to communicate a desire that isn't there. Her heart really lies with continuing to pursue her FP per projects.
I guess lying is an option, but she's not really that good at that either.
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On February 22 2017 04:28 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2017 04:24 Nevuk wrote:The thing is it has pretty much always been the outsider candidate who wins in US presidential races. It doesn't really matter if the person is actually an outsider, it is whoever presents themselves more beliviably as one. OTM had a pretty good overview of it: http://www.wnyc.org/story/history-political-outsider/Both candidates ran campaigns fundamentally disconnected from reality on one level or another. Hillary ignored the wants and desires of the average person, while Trump flat out ignored facts. hillary didn't ignore the wants and desires of the average person; she failed to communicate that she cared and what her plans were for addressing them.
Yes, that's called ignoring their most important desire : wanting to feel heard. She may have addressed their needs better than Trump if she were elected, but that's pretty clearly not what they care about.
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On February 22 2017 04:31 Nevuk wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2017 04:28 zlefin wrote:On February 22 2017 04:24 Nevuk wrote:The thing is it has pretty much always been the outsider candidate who wins in US presidential races. It doesn't really matter if the person is actually an outsider, it is whoever presents themselves more beliviably as one. OTM had a pretty good overview of it: http://www.wnyc.org/story/history-political-outsider/Both candidates ran campaigns fundamentally disconnected from reality on one level or another. Hillary ignored the wants and desires of the average person, while Trump flat out ignored facts. hillary didn't ignore the wants and desires of the average person; she failed to communicate that she cared and what her plans were for addressing them. Yes, that's called ignoring their most important desire : wanting to feel heard. She may have addressed their needs better than Trump if she were elected, but that's pretty clearly not what they care about.
so it seems; it's rather unfortunate that people aren't so interested in actual improvement. and that they're so inept at perception that they can't tell what's actually helping them.
but I wouldn't say that's their most important desire, while an important desire, I think they do care more about the economy. it'd be an interesting poll question to ask, not that polls are that indicative either, but it'd still be interesting.
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On February 22 2017 04:24 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2017 04:22 WolfintheSheep wrote:On February 22 2017 04:19 Bleak wrote:
Thanks America, for electing Trump. This next 4 years is going to be so fun to watch. Every day I check the news and Trump says/does something which cracks me up. He never fails to deliver! The Idiocracy has come true. Irony coming from a country that elected Erdogan? Though, I guess to be fair, Erdogan generally isn't an idiot, per se. Erdogan is what Trump wants to be. Someone who turned a Democratic country into a Dictatorship.
I must have missed a press meeting.
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On February 22 2017 04:36 Ghostcom wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2017 04:24 Gorsameth wrote:On February 22 2017 04:22 WolfintheSheep wrote:On February 22 2017 04:19 Bleak wrote:
Thanks America, for electing Trump. This next 4 years is going to be so fun to watch. Every day I check the news and Trump says/does something which cracks me up. He never fails to deliver! The Idiocracy has come true. Irony coming from a country that elected Erdogan? Though, I guess to be fair, Erdogan generally isn't an idiot, per se. Erdogan is what Trump wants to be. Someone who turned a Democratic country into a Dictatorship. I must have missed a press meeting.
Trump wants to always be right. He wants no one to question what he does.
Did you miss his attacks on the Judiciary for questioning the legality of his Executive Orders?
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On February 22 2017 04:31 Nevuk wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2017 04:28 zlefin wrote:On February 22 2017 04:24 Nevuk wrote:The thing is it has pretty much always been the outsider candidate who wins in US presidential races. It doesn't really matter if the person is actually an outsider, it is whoever presents themselves more beliviably as one. OTM had a pretty good overview of it: http://www.wnyc.org/story/history-political-outsider/Both candidates ran campaigns fundamentally disconnected from reality on one level or another. Hillary ignored the wants and desires of the average person, while Trump flat out ignored facts. hillary didn't ignore the wants and desires of the average person; she failed to communicate that she cared and what her plans were for addressing them. Yes, that's called ignoring their most important desire : wanting to feel heard. She may have addressed their needs better than Trump if she were elected, but that's pretty clearly not what they care about.
This all wraps around to voters wanting to be heard, which the democrats have done a terrible job conveying for the last 8 years(maybe more). I think the Democrats hear the voters, but they do not communicate that.
The greatest trick the GOP ever pulled was convincing everyone they were the party of working class voters, while doing everything in their power to screw them over.
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On February 22 2017 04:38 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On February 22 2017 04:36 Ghostcom wrote:On February 22 2017 04:24 Gorsameth wrote:On February 22 2017 04:22 WolfintheSheep wrote:On February 22 2017 04:19 Bleak wrote:
Thanks America, for electing Trump. This next 4 years is going to be so fun to watch. Every day I check the news and Trump says/does something which cracks me up. He never fails to deliver! The Idiocracy has come true. Irony coming from a country that elected Erdogan? Though, I guess to be fair, Erdogan generally isn't an idiot, per se. Erdogan is what Trump wants to be. Someone who turned a Democratic country into a Dictatorship. I must have missed a press meeting. Trump wants to always be right. He wants no one to question what he does. Did you miss his attacks on the Judiciary for questioning the legality of his Executive Orders?
Are you actually serious in your belief that Trump wants to turn USA into a dictatorship?
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