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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
January 28 2017 15:43 GMT
#133481
It's part of that contradiction where the US "allies" in the Middle East are also sponsors of terrorists that attack the US.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-01-28 16:15:42
January 28 2017 16:01 GMT
#133482
People of TL: I know that we tend to appreciate memes from our own side more than the other side, even if they are somewhat overly partisan. But I am finding myself in total exception when it comes to Barron Trump. I've seen a couple people making fun of Barron and posting memes comparing him to Shinji from Evangelion. I really just think its straight up distasteful and utterly wrong. Under no circumstances should a 10 year old kid be an internet joke. How in the world do people feel comfortable poking fun at a kid just because his father is Trump? Some people get so absorbed in their own partisan shit that they are losing their sense of decency. Its sad.

Am I the only one who sees kids as off limits? How in the world does someone feel comfortable poking fun at a kid?

edit for clarification: I am saying that I have seen this elsewhere and I am asking what people on TL think about the practice.
Liquid`Jinro
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Sweden33719 Posts
January 28 2017 16:05 GMT
#133483
I dont think I've seen anyone do that in this thread at least?
Moderatortell the guy that interplanatar interaction is pivotal to terrans variety of optionitudals in the pre-midgame preperatories as well as the protosstinal deterriggation of elite zergling strikes - Stimey n | Formerly FrozenArbiter
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22559 Posts
January 28 2017 16:08 GMT
#133484
On January 29 2017 01:01 Mohdoo wrote:
People of TL: I know that we tend to appreciate memes from our own side more than the other side, even if they are somewhat overly partisan. But I am finding myself in total exception when it comes to Baron Trump. I've seen a couple people making fun of Baron and posting memes comparing him to Shinji from Evangelion. I really just think its straight up distasteful and utterly wrong. Under no circumstances should a 10 year old kid be an internet joke. How in the world do people feel comfortable poking fun at a kid just because his father is Trump? Some people get so absorbed in their own partisan shit that they are losing their sense of decency. Its sad.

Am I the only one who sees kids as off limits? How in the world does someone feel comfortable poking fun at a kid?

Yeah I'm confused. Why exactly are you making this plea here when no one here has attacked or meme'd any part of Trumps family.

It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
January 28 2017 16:09 GMT
#133485
On January 29 2017 01:05 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
I dont think I've seen anyone do that in this thread at least?



On January 29 2017 01:08 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 29 2017 01:01 Mohdoo wrote:
People of TL: I know that we tend to appreciate memes from our own side more than the other side, even if they are somewhat overly partisan. But I am finding myself in total exception when it comes to Baron Trump. I've seen a couple people making fun of Baron and posting memes comparing him to Shinji from Evangelion. I really just think its straight up distasteful and utterly wrong. Under no circumstances should a 10 year old kid be an internet joke. How in the world do people feel comfortable poking fun at a kid just because his father is Trump? Some people get so absorbed in their own partisan shit that they are losing their sense of decency. Its sad.

Am I the only one who sees kids as off limits? How in the world does someone feel comfortable poking fun at a kid?

Yeah I'm confused. Why exactly are you making this plea here when no one here has attacked or meme'd any part of Trumps family.



Sorry it is early in the morning and I should have specified I meant seeing this OTHER places, such as this:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/23/arts/television/katie-rich-snl-suspended-barron-trump-tweet.html

I've seen a couple memes on Facebook. I'll edit my post to more accurately reflect what I'm saying. I am more so asking people on TL's opinion on what they think about the practice as a whole. Not because TL has been doing it, but because I value your opinions.
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22559 Posts
January 28 2017 16:13 GMT
#133486
On January 29 2017 01:09 Mohdoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 29 2017 01:05 Liquid`Jinro wrote:
I dont think I've seen anyone do that in this thread at least?



Show nested quote +
On January 29 2017 01:08 Gorsameth wrote:
On January 29 2017 01:01 Mohdoo wrote:
People of TL: I know that we tend to appreciate memes from our own side more than the other side, even if they are somewhat overly partisan. But I am finding myself in total exception when it comes to Baron Trump. I've seen a couple people making fun of Baron and posting memes comparing him to Shinji from Evangelion. I really just think its straight up distasteful and utterly wrong. Under no circumstances should a 10 year old kid be an internet joke. How in the world do people feel comfortable poking fun at a kid just because his father is Trump? Some people get so absorbed in their own partisan shit that they are losing their sense of decency. Its sad.

Am I the only one who sees kids as off limits? How in the world does someone feel comfortable poking fun at a kid?

Yeah I'm confused. Why exactly are you making this plea here when no one here has attacked or meme'd any part of Trumps family.



Sorry it is early in the morning and I should have specified I meant seeing this OTHER places, such as this:

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/01/23/arts/television/katie-rich-snl-suspended-barron-trump-tweet.html

I've seen a couple memes on Facebook. I'll edit my post to more accurately reflect what I'm saying. I am more so asking people on TL's opinion on what they think about the practice as a whole. Not because TL has been doing it, but because I value your opinions.

Unless relatives directly involve themselves in the conversation I consider them off-limits.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
January 28 2017 16:13 GMT
#133487
Barron looks like a really easy target to mock and meme, and he definitely is. But it's both tasteless and without purpose so it's best not to.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Nevuk
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States16280 Posts
January 28 2017 16:31 GMT
#133488
Attacking Barron Trump is a bad idea in general. It makes the attackers look vicious, cruel, petty, and stupid. He's ten years old. Not exactly a policy advisor to the president. There's no upside to it - at best Trump is merely offended rather than outraged by the comments. It is the same as when conservatives attacked Obama's children. There's a reason it was never made into a large thing. Even attacking Melania is probably a bad idea as she isn't involved in policy decisions.
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
January 28 2017 16:34 GMT
#133489
It's about national security, folks...trust me!

[T]here’s precious little evidence that immigrants and refugees actually pose a serious terrorist risk to the United States. A recent report, from Cato Institute analyst Alex Nowrasteh, is one of the most sophisticated attempts to investigate this question. What it found was striking: The risk of terrorism from immigrants is astonishingly tiny.

Cato is a libertarian think tank that has a noticeably pro-migration stance. But Nowrasteh’s research is on really solid ground: He combed through data on terrorism and immigration from nine different sources, covering 1975 through 2015. He counted any attack on US soil in which an immigrant participated as a terrorist attack by immigrants, even if some native-born Americans also helped in its planning or execution.

...

I’ve produced the following chart, which compares the average annual likelihood of American pedestrians being hit by a railway vehicle, dying due to their own clothes melting or lighting on fire, and being killed in a terrorist attack perpetrated by an immigrant. It’s quite revealing.

...

“Of the 3,252,493 refugees admitted from 1975 to the end of 2015, 20 were terrorists, which amounted to 0.00062 percent of the total,” Nowrasteh writes. “Of the 20, only three were successful in their attacks, killing a total of three people.”

...

“Only 10 [unauthorized] immigrants became terrorists, a minuscule 0.000038 percent of the 26.5 million who entered from 1975 through 2015,” he writes. “Only one of those [unauthorized] immigrants, Ahmed Ajaj, actually succeeded in killing an American.”


Vox
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
January 28 2017 17:01 GMT
#133490
A coalition of activists called #NotOneInch are planning a poignant and unique form of protest today: delivering a number of “back-up spines” to Democratic Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer’s apartment in Brooklyn, New York.

The protestors are organizing in response to Schumer’s vote to approve three of President Donald Trump’s cabinet members: Mike Pompeo, James Mattis and Mike Flynn.

The “spines” will include cardboard signs, cut-outs and plastic skeleton spines ― a tongue-in-cheek dig at what they perceive to be cowardly moves by Schumer.

“When will spineless Democrats get it through their heads that we demand ZERO COLLABORATION with the Trump/extreme GOP agenda? ZERO,” Tim Murphy, co-founder of #NotOneInch and active member of Gays Against Guns (GAG), told The Huffington Post. “It is infuriating that Schumer thinks just because he’s sitting pretty in his Senate seat for six more years, he can afford to vote yes on SOME of these terrifying cabinet picks to preserve some dealmaking leverage with Republicans. NO.”

Source

I guess the real problem Democrats had with Republican obstructionism under Obama wasn't that it was paralyzing government progress, but merely that they were losing out from that arrangement.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-01-28 17:11:40
January 28 2017 17:05 GMT
#133491
On January 29 2017 02:01 LegalLord wrote:
Show nested quote +
A coalition of activists called #NotOneInch are planning a poignant and unique form of protest today: delivering a number of “back-up spines” to Democratic Senate Minority Leader Chuck Schumer’s apartment in Brooklyn, New York.

The protestors are organizing in response to Schumer’s vote to approve three of President Donald Trump’s cabinet members: Mike Pompeo, James Mattis and Mike Flynn.

The “spines” will include cardboard signs, cut-outs and plastic skeleton spines ― a tongue-in-cheek dig at what they perceive to be cowardly moves by Schumer.

“When will spineless Democrats get it through their heads that we demand ZERO COLLABORATION with the Trump/extreme GOP agenda? ZERO,” Tim Murphy, co-founder of #NotOneInch and active member of Gays Against Guns (GAG), told The Huffington Post. “It is infuriating that Schumer thinks just because he’s sitting pretty in his Senate seat for six more years, he can afford to vote yes on SOME of these terrifying cabinet picks to preserve some dealmaking leverage with Republicans. NO.”

Source

I guess the real problem Democrats had with Republican obstructionism under Obama wasn't that it was paralyzing government progress, but merely that they were losing out from that arrangement.

don't blame all democrats with it when this is just some activists doing stuff.


conclusion the writer of the article you cited is an idiot.
because: it says: "The protestors are organizing in response to Schumer’s vote to approve three of President Donald Trump’s cabinet members: Mike Pompeo, James Mattis and Mike Flynn."

mike flynn's position is national security advisor, it's NOT a cabinet position, AND it's NOT subject to senate confirmation.


PS unless I missed something ofc, doing this in the background so not doublechecking.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-01-28 17:16:41
January 28 2017 17:14 GMT
#133492
Apparently also Green card holders, and people who have worked for the US are being stopped from entering the US now because of his executive order? I thought that "Trump loves legal immigrants"?

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-immigration-greencard-idUSKBN15C0KX
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
January 28 2017 17:16 GMT
#133493
On January 29 2017 02:14 Nyxisto wrote:
Apparently also Green card holders, and people who have worked for the US are being stopped from entering the US now because of his executive order? I thought that "Trump loves legal immigrants"?

I don't think he realized immigrants can be legal while still also being brown.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18866 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-01-28 17:16:54
January 28 2017 17:16 GMT
#133494
On January 29 2017 02:14 Nyxisto wrote:
Apparently also Green card holders, and people who have worked for the US are being stopped from entering the US now because of his executive order? I thought that "Trump loves legal immigrants"?
That's correct, reports are that the first individuals turned away were Iraqi soldiers who had been granted a visa for assisting US troops.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-01-28 17:19:41
January 28 2017 17:18 GMT
#133495
It's a giant failure of execution, considering also that Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are not included. Since when would Trump not stand up to an ally sponsoring terrorism? Very anti-populist.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
January 28 2017 17:23 GMT
#133496
On January 29 2017 02:18 Doodsmack wrote:
It's a giant failure of execution, considering also that Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are not included. Since when would Trump not stand up to an ally sponsoring terrorism? Very anti-populist.

What's true is true; someone does need to knock SA and Pakistan down a few pegs.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
ZapRoffo
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States5544 Posts
January 28 2017 17:24 GMT
#133497
On January 28 2017 18:52 xM(Z wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 28 2017 15:14 ZapRoffo wrote:
On January 28 2017 14:31 Sermokala wrote:
On January 28 2017 13:20 zlefin wrote:
i'm now feelign even more unclear on what exactly legal's stance is.
at any rate, american manufacturing is competitive, which is why the US manufactures a lot of stuff, though maybe not the exact same set of stuff as it used to. not sure where the notion of US manufacturing not being competitive is coming from.

He means competitive in a weird sense of "we need to make everything" competitiveness instead of the high skill high paying positions of labor. There is still a ton of manufacturing in america and a ton of it again can be automated so that those jobs go away.

People need to appreciate the things that globalization gives. Like cheaper things on the basket at the cost of the lowest common denominator jobs. It just boils down to a gold<stuff argument that people aren't taught in high school.


appreciating the things globalization gives needs to happen times a million. Look at the poverty stats here:
https://ourworldindata.org/extreme-poverty/

"During the first half of the last century, the growth of the world population caused the absolute number of poor people in the world to increase, even though the share of people in poverty was going down. After around 1970, the decrease in poverty rates became so steep that the absolute number of people living in extreme poverty started falling as well. This trend of decreasing poverty – both in absolute numbers and as a share of the world population – has been a constant during the last three decades."

Basically you can just scroll through and look at the graphs though. But then there's the section titled "The population in rich countries is largely unaware of the decline of global extreme poverty" which is pretty amazing.
that article is at best informative(as to the level of complexity in trying to measure poverty) and what you quoted there is just a lazy positive statement.
once you start reading the article and realize the amount of adjustments made over time and the assumption based numbers when talking about the past, you put the article in the establishment is trying to feed me bullshit pile and go on with your day.


I don't know what you mean by the amount of adjustments? Adjusting for inflation by using real numbers is literally the most standard and mandatory adjustment there is and no historical data makes any sense without it. Purchasing power parity is also widely used in economics, and is the best we can do in comparing consumption across countries. None of these are some sort of weird or under the table adjustments made up by the people doing the study. They are both used in economics everywhere.

Also the most relevant time frame is for 1980 to now, which is where they say the data becomes very good and isn't as subject to being challenging. The very old stuff is interesting, but really isn't the important part here.
Yeah, well, you know, that's just like, your opinion man
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
January 28 2017 17:34 GMT
#133498
On January 29 2017 02:18 Doodsmack wrote:
It's a giant failure of execution, considering also that Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are not included. Since when would Trump not stand up to an ally sponsoring terrorism? Very anti-populist.

On the bright side, this is likely an indication as to how this whole thing is going to go on a grand scale. We are already seeing a lot of groups coming together on the left in a similar way that the right united against Obama. Obama was a huge boost to right wing unification and it looks like Trump is doing the same thing to the left.
JonnyBNoHo
Profile Joined July 2011
United States6277 Posts
January 28 2017 17:52 GMT
#133499
On January 28 2017 17:31 Introvert wrote:
Two interesting articles, the first on this 20% tax that's being floated, and how the details of it get lost in the noise. Basically, it's not really a tariff, but the GOP wants Trump to be able to message it as being similar to one.

Show nested quote +
House Republicans, led by Paul Ryan, have been trying to give President Donald Trump an outlet for his protectionist impulses while avoiding any increase in tariffs. They hit on a clever plan -- but on Thursday a series of remarks by Trump spokesman Sean Spicer and reports by journalists showed that it might have been too clever.

The House Republican idea is to cut the corporate-income tax to 20 percent and modify it. Crucially, the new corporate tax would have a feature in common with most of the value-added taxes (VATs) that other countries use: It would apply to imports but not exports. The idea is to tax all domestically consumed goods, whether those goods are produced here or abroad.

This “border adjusted” tax wouldn’t be a tariff, because it wouldn’t discriminate between imports and goods produced in America for Americans. It therefore wouldn’t bias a consumer’s choice between a domestically produced good and a competing import.

Some Republicans think that other countries’ VATs help to reduce their trade deficits and that we could reduce ours by adopting a border-adjusted tax. They are probably wrong about that: Most economists believe that when countries adopt such taxes, their currencies appreciate and their total imports and exports end up roughly unchanged. (How fast this happens is an open question.)

But since we import more than we export, applying taxes to imports but not to exports also raises money for the federal government. The economist Martin Feldstein estimates that border adjustment could raise $120 billion a year. That’s another reason House Republicans like it: They could use the revenue to offset some of the tax cuts they want to enact.

The best argument for border adjustment is that it is a way for free traders to tell Trump that they are going to discourage imports and encourage exports, while at the same time they avoid outright protectionism. That rationale depends on Trump’s not quite grasping what’s going on.

Problem number one with this plan is that Trump’s understanding of it is a little too poor. He recently said that border adjustment was “too complicated” and sounded as if it could be a “bad deal” -- sounding as if he thought it had something to do with international trade negotiations, when it is actually something Congress could simply legislate. But later he said it would be an option.


Read the rest at bloomberg


Ehhh, seems like it's either a 20% corporate income tax + tariff, or a 0% corporate income tax + 20% consumption tax. But not both, unless someone can show the maths on that.

Plus, complicated enough to be called one or the other depending on who you are trying to sell it to. Not sure it really passes either definition, for real.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-01-28 18:06:14
January 28 2017 18:05 GMT
#133500
On January 29 2017 02:34 Mohdoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 29 2017 02:18 Doodsmack wrote:
It's a giant failure of execution, considering also that Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are not included. Since when would Trump not stand up to an ally sponsoring terrorism? Very anti-populist.

On the bright side, this is likely an indication as to how this whole thing is going to go on a grand scale. We are already seeing a lot of groups coming together on the left in a similar way that the right united against Obama. Obama was a huge boost to right wing unification and it looks like Trump is doing the same thing to the left.

Such a unity is illusory at best. The center-left "Hillary wing" and the left "Bernie wing" are no less at odds with each other than they were before Trump was such a pervasive factor.

If they really were ready to unite against Trump then there wouldn't be such a mass defection in the face of the possibility of a Trump presidency, back during election time.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
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