US Politics Mega-thread - Page 6647

CIA director Mike Pompeo was “blindsided” by a draft executive order that could open the door for American intelligence agencies to resume waterboarding and other “enhanced interrogation techniques” at newly reopened CIA “black site” prisons overseas, according to a source familiar with conversations he has had about the document.

On January 26 2017 10:01 IgnE wrote:
@tmagpie, fiwi, mohdoo, et al

yo what the fuck are you even talking about? science of morals? science of the "good"? maybe you should consider more pragmatic matters like the fact that torturers must in some sense presuppose the existence of the objective they are seeking. consider how a torturer knows when to stop, when the limits of the victim's knowledge have been reached.

its discussions like this one that reveal how fully science operates as the divine for some of you guys. can we call in the high priests of torture science?

On January 26 2017 10:01 IgnE wrote:
@tmagpie, fiwi, mohdoo, et al

yo what the fuck are you even talking about? science of morals? science of the "good"? maybe you should consider more pragmatic matters like the fact that torturers must in some sense presuppose the existence of the objective they are seeking. consider how a torturer knows when to stop, when the limits of the victim's knowledge have been reached.

its discussions like this one that reveal how fully science operates as the divine for some of you guys. can we call in the high priests of torture science?

On January 26 2017 10:06 Thieving Magpie wrote:


If you read my post you would see that I said I dislike Torture. I even point out why I think torture does not work along of examples of the things we do everyday to show why some people would believe torture works.

All I am saying is that if there was deep scientific research done that showed the contrary to what I think--I would be willing to listen. I do not believe that exists, nor can it exist. That is called being cognizant that the things I currently believe in will not always be true or right; simply that my biases thing that they are.

On January 26 2017 10:24 Nyxisto wrote:
how about we stop talking about the effectiveness and just acknowledge that torture is beneath us because we're not the Spanish inquisition?

On January 26 2017 10:24 Nyxisto wrote:
how about we stop talking about the effectiveness and just acknowledge that torture is beneath us because we're not the Spanish inquisition?

On January 26 2017 10:30 IgnE wrote:


and your biases are showing in the way that you even raise the spectre of some possible scientific demonstration of torture's "effectiveness"

Just a day after Donald Trump signed executive orders to revive the Keystone XL and Dakota Access pipeline projects, a pipeline rupture spilled 138,600 gallons of diesel fuel in northern Iowa.

Magellan Midstream Partners, an Oklahoma company with more than 10,000 miles of oil and ammonium pipeline, acknowledged that the spill began Wednesday morning in Worth County, Iowa, and said it was “unsure of the cause of the incident at this time”.

The oil has pooled in an agricultural field, according to Karen Grimes of the Iowa department of natural resources (DNR), but cleanup efforts are being somewhat impacted by heavy winds and snow.

The spill does not appear to threaten any waterways and has not caused any injuries or evacuations, according to the company and the DNR.

While the spill in Iowa is “not a major disaster” compared to other spills, said Greenpeace researcher Jesse Coleman, it does draw attention to the risks of pipelines.

Proponents of oil pipelines argue that it is a safer method of transporting fuel than trains. More than 7m gallons of oil were spilled in more than 1,000 pipeline leaks between 2010 and 2015, according to an analysis by High Country News.

“This really speaks to the central problem, which is that we’re not even surprised that this company spilled something out of a pipeline because it’s inevitable,” Coleman said. “That’s what’s really frightening about these larger pipelines.”

“You can never really rehabilitate an area that got soaked in gasoline. Even this spill, it can’t be cleaned up,” Coleman added. “That gives you some idea of what will happen when the Dakota Access pipeline or the Keystone XL pipeline fails. It’s irreversible.”

“The problems Magellen has had just show that pipelines spill and they’re not safe,” said Wally Taylor, the legal chair of the Iowa chapter of the Sierra Club, which has joined other Iowa environmental groups in campaigning against the Dakota Access pipeline.

The Magellan spill occurred just days after the company reached an $18m settlement with the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) over alleged violations of the Clean Water Act.

On 19 January, the EPA announced that Magellan had agreed to spend $16m on “injunctive relief” and pay a $2m fine over three pipeline spills in Texas, Nebraska, and Kansas. The injunctive relief includes completing cleanup efforts in Nebraska and improving damage prevention training.

Representatives of the EPA either declined to comment or did not respond to queries from the Guardian. On Monday, the Associated Press reported that EPA staff have been barred from speaking to reporters.

On January 26 2017 11:00 Unentschieden wrote:
An "alternate facts" administration has no issue with providing proof that torture works if they want to use it. Also anyone can be finangled into being an acceptable target according to the same "facts".

Torture can´t be given any ground or it will establish itself, its effective in giving the torturers what they want to hear.

On January 26 2017 11:57 Thaniri wrote:
Some posters are being obtuse and emotional on this moral discussion on torture.

The claim was torture is ethical if one knew that it works. and then further says we don't know that it works. I would hope that people are smart enough to figure out that this is an argument against torture.

On January 26 2017 12:37 Karis Vas Ryaar wrote:
President of Mexico just officially stated Mexico is not paying for the wall. Took him long enough. Personally I think he should go full hardball and cut of diplomatic relations with the US until Trump stops insisting that.

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-38753826

On January 26 2017 12:42 xDaunt wrote:

The problem with that tact is that the US has all of the leverage. Mexico is going to have to play ball with Trump, and Trump understands this.