In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!
NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Wikileaks have gone off the deep end, how do any of those 'ensure a Clinton win'? Not to mention that she was 7 points ahead before this supposed spooky conspiracy
Questioning why the US is now bombing Yemen and supporting Saudi who are committing atrocities in Yemen is fair game, don't agree with the poll options there though,
Even TIME magazine, one of the most left-wing pro establishment rags out there says US support for the war in Yemen is "indefensible".
Last Saturday, as hundreds of Yemeni mourners waited to pay their respects to a beloved elder, warplanes obliterated the funeral hall they were gathered in killing more than 140 people and wounding more than 525. This is not an isolated incident but rather the latest tragedy in Saudi Arabia’s military intervention—facilitated by U.S. intelligence sharing and aerial refueling.
These are your tax dollars at work.
The humanitarian impact of the bombing campaign is staggering—no civilian is left unaffected. Yemen, the poorest country in the Middle East before the start of this conflict, is now on the brink of starvation. The numbers do not sufficiently represent the desperation that this conflict has wrought, but they’re a start. More than 19 million people do not have access to clean water, 14 million people are suffering from hunger and malnutrition, and more than 3 million Yemenis have been driven from their homes.
Assange is against US imperialism, Clinton represents a continuation of Obamas policy aka more imperialism.Yemen appears to be the latest casualty.
Most americans here don't touch foreign policy questions, its even harder to defend because those are not sexual allegations but facts and people are dying in troves because of their politics. hillary will perpetuate this conflicts and engage in more wars and destruction but the media talks about nuclear war if Trump is elected haha.
Hillary openly wants to support Alqaeda, receives donations from Saudi Arabia that support isis... amazing foreign policy.
Disgusting person, i would be ashamed if i had to vote for her.
This is the third time that video (or equivalent) has been posted in this thread as far as I know, and it's also the third time I have pointed out that Clinton was laughing at the coincidence, not getting her jollies out of killing foreign heads of state.
I am willing to make allowances because this thread is long and it's not practical to read all of it... nevertheless it is quite frusturating. Even without having seen that, it's not as though you could not have worked it out for yourself, instead of jumping to conclusions.
Wikileaks have gone off the deep end, how do any of those 'ensure a Clinton win'? Not to mention that she was 7 points ahead before this supposed spooky conspiracy
Questioning why the US is now bombing Yemen and supporting Saudi who are committing atrocities in Yemen is fair game, don't agree with the poll options there though,
Even TIME magazine, one of the most left-wing pro establishment rags out there says US support for the war in Yemen is "indefensible".
Last Saturday, as hundreds of Yemeni mourners waited to pay their respects to a beloved elder, warplanes obliterated the funeral hall they were gathered in killing more than 140 people and wounding more than 525. This is not an isolated incident but rather the latest tragedy in Saudi Arabia’s military intervention—facilitated by U.S. intelligence sharing and aerial refueling.
These are your tax dollars at work.
The humanitarian impact of the bombing campaign is staggering—no civilian is left unaffected. Yemen, the poorest country in the Middle East before the start of this conflict, is now on the brink of starvation. The numbers do not sufficiently represent the desperation that this conflict has wrought, but they’re a start. More than 19 million people do not have access to clean water, 14 million people are suffering from hunger and malnutrition, and more than 3 million Yemenis have been driven from their homes.
Assange is against US imperialism, Clinton represents a continuation of Obamas policy aka more imperialism.Yemen appears to be the latest casualty.
Most americans here don't touch foreign policy questions, its even harder to defend because those are not sexual allegations but facts and people are dying in troves because of their politics. hillary will perpetuate this conflicts and engage in more wars and destruction but the media talks about nuclear war if Trump is elected haha.
Hillary openly wants to support Alqaeda, receives donations from Saudi Arabia that support isis... amazing foreign policy.
Disgusting person, i would be ashamed if i had to vote for her.
This is the third time that video (or equivalent) has been posted in this thread as far as I know, and it's also the third time I have pointed out that Clinton was laughing at the coincidence, not getting her jollies out of killing foreign heads of state.
I am willing to make allowances because this thread is long and it's not practical to read all of it... nevertheless it is quite frusturating. Even without having seen that, it's not as though you could not have worked it out for yourself, instead of jumping to conclusions.
Could you go in depth and explain what you mean by 'laughing at the coincidence'? She says she was commenting on the first reports coming in that Gaddafi was dead. Whats the coincidence here? That Libya turned into a mad max style wasteland where heads of state get raped and mutilated by democratic freedom fighters because of her or what?
edit: She was asked 'Do you think this had anything to do with your visit?' after she said 'We came, we saw, he died'.
The coincidence is that Gaddafi's death came directly after Clinton's visit to the country.
It's a joke based on that coincidence, and the comment made by Clinton has nothing to do with the way in which Gaddafi died (if Clinton even knew anything about that at that time, which I do not know, but if this was the first report I doubt it).
We could debate whether the joke was in poor taste, but I will point out that you would be cast in the role of the political correctness police.
Wikileaks have gone off the deep end, how do any of those 'ensure a Clinton win'? Not to mention that she was 7 points ahead before this supposed spooky conspiracy
Questioning why the US is now bombing Yemen and supporting Saudi who are committing atrocities in Yemen is fair game, don't agree with the poll options there though,
Even TIME magazine, one of the most left-wing pro establishment rags out there says US support for the war in Yemen is "indefensible".
Last Saturday, as hundreds of Yemeni mourners waited to pay their respects to a beloved elder, warplanes obliterated the funeral hall they were gathered in killing more than 140 people and wounding more than 525. This is not an isolated incident but rather the latest tragedy in Saudi Arabia’s military intervention—facilitated by U.S. intelligence sharing and aerial refueling.
These are your tax dollars at work.
The humanitarian impact of the bombing campaign is staggering—no civilian is left unaffected. Yemen, the poorest country in the Middle East before the start of this conflict, is now on the brink of starvation. The numbers do not sufficiently represent the desperation that this conflict has wrought, but they’re a start. More than 19 million people do not have access to clean water, 14 million people are suffering from hunger and malnutrition, and more than 3 million Yemenis have been driven from their homes.
Assange is against US imperialism, Clinton represents a continuation of Obamas policy aka more imperialism.Yemen appears to be the latest casualty.
You do realize that the US' support for the war in Yemen can be both indefensible and have nothing to do with the elections all at the same time, right?
On October 15 2016 15:13 Leporello wrote: One of the biggest disasters of our Middle Eastern conflicts, and of declaring Islamic terrorism to be the world's great boogeyman, is we have ignored the catastrophic disaster and deterioration of Russian democracy under the propagandist and murderer, KGB-spook Putin.
Over the past 12 years, Russia has invaded Georgia, staged a proxy-invasion of Ukraine, annexed Crimea, and has essentially carpet-bombed civilian cities in Syria, often targeting hospitals and supply convoys in Aleppo -- that city which Gary Johnson has never heard of.
Doing all this, Putin has energized the state and "private" Russian media groups to pump out insane amounts of anti-Western nationalism. Russian pundits openly relish thoughts of nuclear war with America on Russia's major TV-networks. Russian diplomats actually threatened to nuke Denmark when Denmark sought to engage in perfectly legal naval tests.
Putin can sit back while any of his political opponents, like Boris Nemstov, get assassinated by his rabid, brainwashed "patriots". His approval numbers says it all. No democratically-elected person, in a free society, with a free media, has 85% approval. It isn't an accomplishment -- it's a glaring indictment. And Donald Trump PRAISED IT. He praised the destruction of democracy in a country that has sacrificed millions of people trying to obtain it.
In defense of Trump's appeals of "peace" with Russia in its newfound fascism, what do Trump's defenders do? They attack America. Using the exact rhetoric that you would hear from the Russian demagogues. They point at Iraq, which somehow is entirely Obama's fault, and to them America's mistakes excuses Russia's deplorable actions against its neighbors. I'm not sure how it excuses the destruction of Russia's democracy, but I guess the comparison is ridiculous and confusing enough, that it simply destroys all discourse. Which is often the aim of Russia's conspiracy-theory-reveling media -- to simply confuse people into malaise.
America used to stand for democratic ideals and freedom. And now some of this country's so called patriots are relishing in Russian-fascism. How amazingly disturbing. This country will never be the same. If things get any worse, if Trump even manages to win, the Western world, that which fostered modern democracy, will be extremely endangered. America will become perhaps the worst thing to ever happen to Western democracy, if as its leader, we allow ourselves to become so easily overtaken by conspiracy-theories.
Donald Trump already is the worst thing to happen to American democracy. Nevermind the fact that he's a raging scumbag, and a reality-TV clown, made entertaining by his obnoxious behavior. Whether he means to be or not, Trump IS a Russian-plant, doing what a Russian-plant would do. This, coming from the party of Ronald Reagan.
The corporatist, oligarch nature of the GOP was always made charming by its appeals to traditional family-values and protection of democracy, domestic or foreign. Now what do they stand for, at all, besides demagoguery?
I'm also worried we could end up in some really nasty warlike business resulting from Clinton being elected. I believe that it is realistic to have concerns about that at the very least. Trump -may- actually be the better candidate in that respect. Of course, I don't really want to do that to the American people since he is pretty awful by any other standard. And not only that, but it is hard to tell what Trump would actually do because he is so unpredictable in terms of what his actual policies might be if they are implemented in any sort of practical way (since they seem largely based on fantasy).
With Clinton, we know we are getting 4 more years of US imperialism in the Middle East. Four more years of practically everybody outside of the western world looking at the US and basically being justified in looking at them as terrorists. Four more years of corporate interests driving US politics abroad. On the other side, US citizens will also get four years of incremental improvements to its society and won't have to live with an elected rapist.
I don't blame the American people for that, but I do wish you guys would get off your ass and do something about the situation in which you find yourselves when it comes to your options for elected officials.
Over the past 12 years, Russia has invaded Georgia, staged a proxy-invasion of Ukraine, annexed Crimea, and has essentially carpet-bombed civilian cities in Syria, often targeting hospitals and supply convoys in Aleppo -- that city which Gary Johnson has never heard of.
Americans encouraged the Georgians to rebel forcing a Russian response. Americans have invaded Iraq and bring war to its neighbours with all those weapon deals, Americans have killed thousands of civilians in the Middle East as collateral damage in its war on terrorism. America also bombs hospitals (or have we forgotten about that Doctors Without Borders hospital in Afghanistan?). I seem to recall Americas allies, such as Saudi Arabia and Israel, have also been known to bomb hospitals in the countries that they are in war with.
You (Leporello) complain about Russia, but America is no better.
You blame the Russian media for spreading lies and propaganda, but the western media by and large just reports extensively on what the US government is saying and if you look at the same stories from another perspective, you start to realize that looking at the world from just the US/western perspective doesn't really provide the whole story.
Both countries lie and cheat and try to influence opinions through media. You might be surprised that the rest of the world doesn't really believe that "American exceptionalism" is a real thing, nor do we think we are "dispensable countries" such as your current president has suggested to your military personnel in the past.
The very small difference between Russia and the US is that the US is a democracy with officials that (mainly) serve the interest of the public, powers well separated and a free, diverse and conflicting press, free enough that a major newspaper (the WP) can reveal a top secret gigantic mass surveillance program without fearing retaliation.
The totally similar Russia is a brutal dictatorship where the power is arguably only interested in itself, ran by one of the most corrupt man in the world history, a justice system that obeys direct orders from the executive and where journalists critical of the power are jailed and killed and newspapers bullied and closed.
I'd also like to remind you guys that Trump qualifies himself as "the most militaristic guy ever" and advocate indiscriminate strikes a-la Russian on Syria.
Defending him and attacking warmonger Clinton is a bit rich.
On October 15 2016 19:44 Biff The Understudy wrote: I'd also like to remind you guys that Trump qualifies himself as "the most militaristic guy ever" and advocate indiscriminate strikes a-la Russian on Syria.
Defending him and attacking warmonger Clinton is a bit rich.
he wants to coordinate with the russians strikes against isis.
This is the third time that video (or equivalent) has been posted in this thread as far as I know, and it's also the third time I have pointed out that Clinton was laughing at the coincidence, not getting her jollies out of killing foreign heads of state.
I am willing to make allowances because this thread is long and it's not practical to read all of it... nevertheless it is quite frusturating. Even without having seen that, it's not as though you could not have worked it out for yourself, instead of jumping to conclusions.
if you are ok with a head of state laughing at the death of another that's your thing, i wouldn't want a president like that.
On October 15 2016 19:44 Biff The Understudy wrote: I'd also like to remind you guys that Trump qualifies himself as "the most militaristic guy ever" and advocate indiscriminate strikes a-la Russian on Syria.
Defending him and attacking warmonger Clinton is a bit rich.
he wants to coordinate with the russians strikes against isis.
This is the third time that video (or equivalent) has been posted in this thread as far as I know, and it's also the third time I have pointed out that Clinton was laughing at the coincidence, not getting her jollies out of killing foreign heads of state.
I am willing to make allowances because this thread is long and it's not practical to read all of it... nevertheless it is quite frusturating. Even without having seen that, it's not as though you could not have worked it out for yourself, instead of jumping to conclusions.
if you are ok with a head of state laughing at the death of another that's your thing, i wouldn't want a president like that.
I'm not sure why you think Trump wouldn't laugh at the death of another head of state.
This is the third time that video (or equivalent) has been posted in this thread as far as I know, and it's also the third time I have pointed out that Clinton was laughing at the coincidence, not getting her jollies out of killing foreign heads of state.
I am willing to make allowances because this thread is long and it's not practical to read all of it... nevertheless it is quite frusturating. Even without having seen that, it's not as though you could not have worked it out for yourself, instead of jumping to conclusions.
if you are ok with a head of state laughing at the death of another that's your thing, i wouldn't want a president like that.
Clinton was not laughing at Gaddafi being dead, she was laughing at the juxtaposition of Gaddafi being dead with her recent visit.
I feel really weird saying this, this is not normally my side of this kind of conversation but...
It was a joke. Are we not allowed to tell jokes any more?
This is the third time that video (or equivalent) has been posted in this thread as far as I know, and it's also the third time I have pointed out that Clinton was laughing at the coincidence, not getting her jollies out of killing foreign heads of state.
I am willing to make allowances because this thread is long and it's not practical to read all of it... nevertheless it is quite frusturating. Even without having seen that, it's not as though you could not have worked it out for yourself, instead of jumping to conclusions.
if you are ok with a head of state laughing at the death of another that's your thing, i wouldn't want a president like that.
Clinton was not laughing at Gaddafi being dead, she was laughing at the juxtaposition of Gaddafi being dead with her recent visit.
I feel really weird saying this, this is not normally my side of this kind of conversation but...
It was a joke. Are we not allowed to tell jokes any more?
Then don't say it. Apply consistent standards to everyone. She can make whatever joke she wants and be criticised by anyone who wants to criticise her for it. Generally speaking people in positions of power should exhibit a level of professionalism, although if the past few decades are anything to go by then US presidents are exempt from this rule, so... okay.
This is the third time that video (or equivalent) has been posted in this thread as far as I know, and it's also the third time I have pointed out that Clinton was laughing at the coincidence, not getting her jollies out of killing foreign heads of state.
I am willing to make allowances because this thread is long and it's not practical to read all of it... nevertheless it is quite frusturating. Even without having seen that, it's not as though you could not have worked it out for yourself, instead of jumping to conclusions.
if you are ok with a head of state laughing at the death of another that's your thing, i wouldn't want a president like that.
Clinton was not laughing at Gaddafi being dead, she was laughing at the juxtaposition of Gaddafi being dead with her recent visit.
I feel really weird saying this, this is not normally my side of this kind of conversation but...
It was a joke. Are we not allowed to tell jokes any more?
Then don't say it. Apply consistent standards to everyone. She can make whatever joke she wants and be criticised by anyone who wants to criticise her for it. Generally speaking people in positions of power should exhibit a level of professionalism, although if the past few decades are anything to go by then US presidents are exempt from this rule, so... okay.
And yet the exact same thing can be said for literally every nation in the world, UK included, so maybe chill out on the sanctimonious bullshit?
More to the points raised by others above, one does not need to believe in American Exceptionalism nor excuse our nation's hawkish military in order to justify a vote for Clinton; as has already been posted abundantly in the past, there are literally dozens of other voting prerogatives that lead to a Clinton vote. Furthermore, given that one of the biggest criticisms levied towards Trump deals with how incredibly unpredictable he is/would be as president, the notion that foreigners can have this magic window into Trump's mind and say with certainty what he would or would not do is utter nonsense.
I'm hearing a lot of stuff saying that Obama and Clinton are pushing the USA towards a nuclear war which sounds like some sort of exaggeration that is meant to criticize them. Even so, are these statements true or is it just rhetoric?
On October 15 2016 20:26 DontNerfInfestors wrote: I'm hearing a lot of stuff saying that Obama and Clinton are pushing the USA towards a nuclear war which sounds like some sort of exaggeration that is meant to criticize them. Even so, are these statements true or is it just rhetoric?
Most of that talks comes from the following threat.
Americans should vote for Donald Trump as president next month or risk being dragged into a nuclear war, according to a Russian ultra-nationalist ally of President Vladimir Putin who likes to compare himself to the U.S. Republican candidate.
Vladimir Zhirinovsky, a flamboyant veteran lawmaker known for his fiery rhetoric, told Reuters in an interview that Trump was the only person able to de-escalate dangerous tensions between Moscow and Washington.
By contrast, Trump's Democratic rival Hillary Clinton could spark World War Three, said Zhirinovsky, who received a top state award from Putin after his pro-Kremlin Liberal Democratic Party of Russia (LDPR) came third in Russia's parliamentary election last month.
Many Russians regard Zhirinovsky as a clownish figure who makes outspoken statements to grab attention but he is also widely viewed as a faithful servant of Kremlin policy, sometimes used to float radical opinions to test public reaction.
"Relations between Russia and the United States can't get any worse. The only way they can get worse is if a war starts," said Zhirinovsky, speaking in his huge office on the 10th floor of Russia's State Duma, or lower house of parliament.
"Americans voting for a president on Nov. 8 must realize that they are voting for peace on Planet Earth if they vote for Trump. But if they vote for Hillary it's war. It will be a short movie. There will be Hiroshimas and Nagasakis everywhere."
Zhirinovsky's comments coincide with deep disagreements between Washington and Moscow over Syria and Ukraine and after the White House last week accused Russia of a campaign of cyber attacks against Democratic Party organizations.
Even as WikiLeaks released another trove of internal documents from Clinton’s campaign on Wednesday, Putin insisted his country was not involved in an effort to influence the U.S. presidential election.
EPT
