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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
October 10 2016 18:06 GMT
#109701
So this is what it looks like to go down with the Trump train.

I wonder what it would look like if they went with the "Dump Trump" approach, and how it would compare to all this.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43960 Posts
October 10 2016 18:08 GMT
#109702
On October 11 2016 03:04 LegalLord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 11 2016 02:53 zlefin wrote:
On October 11 2016 02:44 ZeaL. wrote:
Well now that we've reached the end point of the hypothetical foreign policy discussion, what do you guys think about the future of the GOP? We've got Ryan cutting off support for Trump and angry Trump supporters threatening him. Since Oct. 7,11 Republican senators have withdrawn their support for Trump and more will probably follow in the next few days after Ryan's comments. Pence is still holding on to the ticket but I can't imagine he's in a good state after last night's debate. Then we've got the possibility that the Bushes were behind the release of this audio, deliberate sabotage against their own party's nominee? What's Trump going to do if he loses, and loses big? And what happens to all the voters that supported him?

hard to say. a lot really depends on how bad trump loses at the election.
they're in for a rough ride in any event; but mostly a continuation of the troubles they've had for the past several years, of which trump is merely a manifestation.

They need to learn to have better judgment than to push Jeb Bush as their preferred candidate.

Do you think Jeb Bush could have won this year? I think the vast majority of Trump votes were going to anyone not named Hillary. While he excites the misogynistic base they don't need an excuse to vote against a woman. The battle is always in the middle and Jeb has more appeal there than Trump ever will.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
October 10 2016 18:08 GMT
#109703
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
On_Slaught
Profile Joined August 2008
United States12190 Posts
October 10 2016 18:09 GMT
#109704
While I doubt Pence is dropping based on what we know, I could see him dropping if he caught wind of another tape coming and what was in it (like the apprentice "nigger" tape).
TheYango
Profile Joined September 2008
United States47024 Posts
October 10 2016 18:11 GMT
#109705
At this point I can't decide who i dislike more: wishy-washy politicians like Ryan who won't stand with or against Trump for the sake of protecting their careers; or legitimately shitty ones like Jeff Sessions who jumped on the Trump train as an avenue to legitimize his shittiness.
Moderator
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-10 18:12:55
October 10 2016 18:12 GMT
#109706
yango -> Personally I far prefer ryan for questions like that.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43960 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-10 18:15:26
October 10 2016 18:13 GMT
#109707
Oh please. I'll give you an advance screening on that "nigger" tape.

Bio Major: Well that was a few years ago, it's unfortunate but I'd hope he's changed his views on nig-... thugs since then.
xDaunt: What you don't know is that he's actually one of the least racist people around so I can't believe you'd read any kind of racism into that. You're actually the real racist.
GGTemplar: Yeah but were the people he was calling niggers black? They were? So you checked if they were black!?!? Wow. That is so racist. I can't believe you would actually check if they were black. You should be like me. I don't see colour.
Danglars: Hillary Clinton though.
Zeo: The media is just spinning up another scandal to distract from how Trump is winning.
Nettles: Buy gold!
RealityIsKing: Why does the left keep making accusations of racism? Why can't they just be impartial like me?

and, for some reason,
Doodsmack: Bill Clinton raped a woman.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
October 10 2016 18:14 GMT
#109708
On October 11 2016 03:04 LegalLord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 11 2016 02:53 zlefin wrote:
On October 11 2016 02:44 ZeaL. wrote:
Well now that we've reached the end point of the hypothetical foreign policy discussion, what do you guys think about the future of the GOP? We've got Ryan cutting off support for Trump and angry Trump supporters threatening him. Since Oct. 7,11 Republican senators have withdrawn their support for Trump and more will probably follow in the next few days after Ryan's comments. Pence is still holding on to the ticket but I can't imagine he's in a good state after last night's debate. Then we've got the possibility that the Bushes were behind the release of this audio, deliberate sabotage against their own party's nominee? What's Trump going to do if he loses, and loses big? And what happens to all the voters that supported him?

hard to say. a lot really depends on how bad trump loses at the election.
they're in for a rough ride in any event; but mostly a continuation of the troubles they've had for the past several years, of which trump is merely a manifestation.

They need to learn to have better judgment than to push Jeb Bush as their preferred candidate.

Pimping Jeb was the least of their problems.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
October 10 2016 18:14 GMT
#109709
On October 11 2016 03:08 KwarK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 11 2016 03:04 LegalLord wrote:
On October 11 2016 02:53 zlefin wrote:
On October 11 2016 02:44 ZeaL. wrote:
Well now that we've reached the end point of the hypothetical foreign policy discussion, what do you guys think about the future of the GOP? We've got Ryan cutting off support for Trump and angry Trump supporters threatening him. Since Oct. 7,11 Republican senators have withdrawn their support for Trump and more will probably follow in the next few days after Ryan's comments. Pence is still holding on to the ticket but I can't imagine he's in a good state after last night's debate. Then we've got the possibility that the Bushes were behind the release of this audio, deliberate sabotage against their own party's nominee? What's Trump going to do if he loses, and loses big? And what happens to all the voters that supported him?

hard to say. a lot really depends on how bad trump loses at the election.
they're in for a rough ride in any event; but mostly a continuation of the troubles they've had for the past several years, of which trump is merely a manifestation.

They need to learn to have better judgment than to push Jeb Bush as their preferred candidate.

Do you think Jeb Bush could have won this year? I think the vast majority of Trump votes were going to anyone not named Hillary. While he excites the misogynistic base they don't need an excuse to vote against a woman. The battle is always in the middle and Jeb has more appeal there than Trump ever will.

I think that the extent to which the Republican primary voters refused to even consider voting for him despite his impressive monetary and establishment backing are indicative of a similar trainwreck to what we have seen with Trump. The trajectory would have been different but I am quite sure that the result would have been more or less the same. Hillary Clinton may be vulnerable (for good reason) but not so vulnerable that she could lose to the proposition of "four more years of Bush." The visceral "fuck no" reaction to that is as strong as the one towards Trump.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
October 10 2016 18:17 GMT
#109710
On October 11 2016 03:14 xDaunt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 11 2016 03:04 LegalLord wrote:
On October 11 2016 02:53 zlefin wrote:
On October 11 2016 02:44 ZeaL. wrote:
Well now that we've reached the end point of the hypothetical foreign policy discussion, what do you guys think about the future of the GOP? We've got Ryan cutting off support for Trump and angry Trump supporters threatening him. Since Oct. 7,11 Republican senators have withdrawn their support for Trump and more will probably follow in the next few days after Ryan's comments. Pence is still holding on to the ticket but I can't imagine he's in a good state after last night's debate. Then we've got the possibility that the Bushes were behind the release of this audio, deliberate sabotage against their own party's nominee? What's Trump going to do if he loses, and loses big? And what happens to all the voters that supported him?

hard to say. a lot really depends on how bad trump loses at the election.
they're in for a rough ride in any event; but mostly a continuation of the troubles they've had for the past several years, of which trump is merely a manifestation.

They need to learn to have better judgment than to push Jeb Bush as their preferred candidate.

Pimping Jeb was the least of their problems.

All that shows is just how deep those problems run.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
mahrgell
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Germany3943 Posts
October 10 2016 18:20 GMT
#109711
On October 11 2016 02:44 ZeaL. wrote:
Well now that we've reached the end point of the hypothetical foreign policy discussion, what do you guys think about the future of the GOP? We've got Ryan cutting off support for Trump and angry Trump supporters threatening him. Since Oct. 7,11 Republican senators have withdrawn their support for Trump and more will probably follow in the next few days after Ryan's comments. Pence is still holding on to the ticket but I can't imagine he's in a good state after last night's debate. Then we've got the possibility that the Bushes were behind the release of this audio, deliberate sabotage against their own party's nominee? What's Trump going to do if he loses, and loses big? And what happens to all the voters that supported him?


Considering that the history that led to the publication of the video are well explored and published... What brings you to doubt those and create your own theories about the Bushes being behind that?
Especially considering that the Bush involved also didn't come out unharmed from this and lost (one of) his job(s) over it.

It really puzzles me how people are making up such conspiracies. Yes, when it came out, I also thought "ohhhh,smart (albeit dirty) move by the Clinton team, all that buildup at the first debate, now feeding that video, they planned it all along", but comeon... It is really not hard to simply look up how things happened and in this case it is well documented. But I guess you just skipped that look up part and decided that its time to spread your version. I guess I shouldn't be surprised by this mentality when looking at the current election, as it seems to represent the current society and political discourse well.
Rebs
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Pakistan10726 Posts
October 10 2016 18:24 GMT
#109712
On October 11 2016 03:13 KwarK wrote:
Oh please. I'll give you an advance screening on that "nigger" tape.

Bio Major: Well that was a few years ago, it's unfortunate but I'd hope he's changed his views on nig-... thugs since then.
xDaunt: What you don't know is that he's actually one of the least racist people around so I can't believe you'd read any kind of racism into that. You're actually the real racist.
GGTemplar: Yeah but were the people he was calling niggers black? They were? So you checked if they were black!?!? Wow. That is so racist. I can't believe you would actually check if they were black. You should be like me. I don't see colour.
Danglars: Hillary Clinton though.
Zeo: The media is just spinning up another scandal to distract from how Trump is winning.
Nettles: Buy gold!
RealityIsKing: Why does the left keep making accusations of racism? Why can't they just be impartial like me?

and, for some reason,
Doodsmack: Bill Clinton raped a woman.


hahahahahahahahahahahah sticky please......
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
October 10 2016 18:25 GMT
#109713
On October 11 2016 03:13 KwarK wrote:
Oh please. I'll give you an advance screening on that "nigger" tape.

Bio Major: Well that was a few years ago, it's unfortunate but I'd hope he's changed his views on nig-... thugs since then.
xDaunt: What you don't know is that he's actually one of the least racist people around so I can't believe you'd read any kind of racism into that. You're actually the real racist.
GGTemplar: Yeah but were the people he was calling niggers black? They were? So you checked if they were black!?!? Wow. That is so racist. I can't believe you would actually check if they were black. You should be like me. I don't see colour.
Danglars: Hillary Clinton though.
Zeo: The media is just spinning up another scandal to distract from how Trump is winning.
Nettles: Buy gold!
RealityIsKing: Why does the left keep making accusations of racism? Why can't they just be impartial like me?

and, for some reason,
Doodsmack: Bill Clinton raped a woman.

I look forward to checking the accuracy of this post. And to think just yesterday people were saying Trump did great at the debate.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Rebs
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Pakistan10726 Posts
October 10 2016 18:26 GMT
#109714
On October 11 2016 03:25 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 11 2016 03:13 KwarK wrote:
Oh please. I'll give you an advance screening on that "nigger" tape.

Bio Major: Well that was a few years ago, it's unfortunate but I'd hope he's changed his views on nig-... thugs since then.
xDaunt: What you don't know is that he's actually one of the least racist people around so I can't believe you'd read any kind of racism into that. You're actually the real racist.
GGTemplar: Yeah but were the people he was calling niggers black? They were? So you checked if they were black!?!? Wow. That is so racist. I can't believe you would actually check if they were black. You should be like me. I don't see colour.
Danglars: Hillary Clinton though.
Zeo: The media is just spinning up another scandal to distract from how Trump is winning.
Nettles: Buy gold!
RealityIsKing: Why does the left keep making accusations of racism? Why can't they just be impartial like me?

and, for some reason,
Doodsmack: Bill Clinton raped a woman.

I look forward to checking the accuracy of this post. And to think just yesterday people were saying Trump did great at the debate.


Does a leopard change its spots ?
TheTenthDoc
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States9561 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-10 18:28:53
October 10 2016 18:26 GMT
#109715
Honestly the whole Republican primary was doomed once it became clear none of the non-Trumps were willing to bow out early, which I totally missed. I didn't realize just how huge an advantage in delegates the weird states-rights distribution would give Trump and how hard that would be to break.

I think if those debates had been Trump + 1 on a stage where they're roughly even in the polls, we would have been treated to the same word salad nonsense we got during the main debates when he was talking half the time. And that might have been enough to let the other person eke out a win, especially since they could have done some opposition research on him instead of each other.

Instead we got Rubio and Cruz arguing over each other's immigration reform bills and Christie babbling about being a state prosecutor while everyone else just kinda waits to get asked a question.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
October 10 2016 18:31 GMT
#109716
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15743 Posts
October 10 2016 18:34 GMT
#109717
It's funny trying to imagine how incredibly 1-sided this election would have been in the absence of Russian interference. The polls currently coming out don't even reflect the groping video yet. What an incredible mess.
CobaltBlu
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States919 Posts
October 10 2016 18:34 GMT
#109718
Well Trump did say he knows nothing about Russia.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
October 10 2016 18:37 GMT
#109719
The fact that people are still trying to play it like Trump isn’t some Russia shill is hysterical. It was reported a long time ago that Trump’s son admitted a lot of their investors were from Russia.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Biff The Understudy
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
France8072 Posts
October 10 2016 18:38 GMT
#109720
On October 11 2016 02:33 LegalLord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 11 2016 02:31 Lord Tolkien wrote:
On October 11 2016 02:22 TheTenthDoc wrote:
On October 11 2016 02:16 Lord Tolkien wrote:
Sanders, nuaced foreign policy, pick one

Edit: happy to undermine your post one level down, Liquid'Drone


Oh, did that post sound like I was saying Sanders had a nuanced policy? I meant I would like a policy similar to Sanders but more nuanced, sorry if that didn't come through.

Fair enough.


If I'm abrasive, its because I have to read shit like zeo trying to start a "Hillary supporters are trying to rig polls to make it look like Trump supporters rig polls in Trump's favor" conspiracy and resist my urge to strangle something. This thread is toxic and/or stupid far too often and why I take long breaks from it to regain my faith in humanity.

Meh, the only thing you can really do is to grow a thicker skin. If we all were triggered every time we heard something we think is stupidly wrong, we'd all go insane very quickly.

There is stupid and stupid. We all handle our load of normal stupid every day, but trumpist dumb'ess is out of this world. The fact that we are all fucked if people elect this buffoon and that so much is at stake makes it harder to stay calm.
The fellow who is out to burn things up is the counterpart of the fool who thinks he can save the world. The world needs neither to be burned up nor to be saved. The world is, we are. Transients, if we buck it; here to stay if we accept it. ~H.Miller
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