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US Politics Mega-thread - Page 5344

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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
Doodsmack
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States7224 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-05 14:35:28
October 05 2016 14:31 GMT
#106861


Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States13925 Posts
October 05 2016 14:31 GMT
#106862
I think south park has done more damage to Gore's image then the entire election did.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
October 05 2016 14:33 GMT
#106863
On October 05 2016 23:10 ragz_gt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 05 2016 22:43 Velr wrote:
Why is Al Gore hated that much? Just because he tried to become the Prophet of climate Change? Or is there anything more?


From my considerable liberal point of view, he has exact the same problems as Hillary: I think he means well and is competent, but has absolutely no charisma and has doesn't suffer fools.

Devoid of charisma to be sure, but both of them have the problem that they just simply are not that good, as candidates or as potential presidents.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42654 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-05 15:00:39
October 05 2016 14:36 GMT
#106864
On October 05 2016 22:08 Incognoto wrote:
Whoever gets Ohio wins the election. This is a known fact.

If Hillary gets Ohio she wins. But if Trump gets Ohio and doesn't also get Florida and North Carolina Hillary wins.

[image loading]


As I said yesterday, there are five key swing states, Florida(29), Ohio(18), North Carolina(15), Nevada(6) and Iowa(6).
If he loses Florida it doesn't matter if he wins the other four. Even with New Hampshire and Michigan flipping and Massachusetts split evenly he still loses without Florida. If we assume Michigan and New Hampshire won't flip Trump needs to go 5/5 on the above states. Assuming Pennsylvania stays a Hillary stronghold that is.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
iPlaY.NettleS
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Australia4329 Posts
October 05 2016 14:58 GMT
#106865
Any viewing figures for the VP debate?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7PvoI6gvQs
kwizach
Profile Joined June 2011
3658 Posts
October 05 2016 15:06 GMT
#106866
Libertarian VP Candidate Bill Weld Gives Up, Will Focus on Preventing Trump Presidency

As some presumably small portion of Americans sat through a dull debate between the Republican and Democratic vice-presidential nominees on Tuesday night, a far more interesting drama was unfolding within the Libertarian ticket. VP candidate Bill Weld told the Boston Globe that he plans to focus exclusively on attacking Donald Trump for the remainder of the campaign — essentially admitting that running mate Gary Johnson can not become president.

Trump has Weld’s “full attention,” he explained, because his agenda is so terrible it’s “in a class by itself.” “I think Mr. Trump’s proposals in the foreign policy area, including nuclear proliferation, tariffs, and free trade, would be so hurtful, domestically and in the world, that he has my full attention,” Weld said.

Apparently he avoided acknowledging that his new mission amounts to working to make Hillary Clinton president. He pointed out that he disagrees with Clinton on fiscal and military issues, though last week on MSNBC he said he’s “not sure anybody is more qualified than Hillary Clinton to be president of the United States.”

Source
"Oedipus ruined a great sex life by asking too many questions." -- Stephen Colbert
Stratos_speAr
Profile Joined May 2009
United States6959 Posts
October 05 2016 15:11 GMT
#106867
On October 05 2016 22:08 Incognoto wrote:
Whoever gets Ohio wins the election. This is a known fact.


Not even close.

Florida is the do-or-die state. There's a snowball's chance in hell that Trump wins without it. Conversely, Clinton could definitely lose Ohio and still win the election. She could even lose Florida and win in a reasonable scenario.
A sound mind in a sound body, is a short, but full description of a happy state in this World: he that has these two, has little more to wish for; and he that wants either of them, will be little the better for anything else.
Sermokala
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
United States13925 Posts
October 05 2016 15:13 GMT
#106868
Wisconsion and michigan are bigger asks for trump then florida and ohio. I'm thinking NC is going to become the new penn especially if migration keeps going as it was last time I looked. Anyway If trump can take ohio NC and florida He wins. If he drops any of those he loses.
A wise man will say that he knows nothing. We're gona party like its 2752 Hail Dark Brandon
iPlaY.NettleS
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Australia4329 Posts
October 05 2016 15:16 GMT
#106869
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/10/04/nigel_farage_will_attend_second_debate_as_trumps_guest_rise_above_the_catfight.html

Nigel Farage Will Attend Second Debate As Trump's Guest

The leader behind 'Brexit' speaks with Fox News Channel's Neil Cavuto about his advice for Donald Trump ahead of the second presidential debate. Farage will attend the debate as a guest of Mr. Trump.

"The advice I have for Donald Trump, I don't have to give it to him face-to-face," the UKIP leader said. "I will share it with you right now on this show, it is very simple. The Clinton team analyzed that Trump is a proud man -- proud of his achievements, proud of himself, proud of his family. And if you attack him on his record, try to tear to bits his business empire and his past, he will try to defend himself."

He continued: "My advice to Mr. Trump is dead simple: Do not be accused of financial impropriety by the Clintons. Do not be told you are a misogynist by a woman whose Foundation takes money from Saudi Arabia. Rise above, don't get involved in some sort of terrible catfight. Rise above it and tell the American people why you are the candidate for change."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7PvoI6gvQs
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42654 Posts
October 05 2016 15:16 GMT
#106870
On October 06 2016 00:13 Sermokala wrote:
Wisconsion and michigan are bigger asks for trump then florida and ohio. I'm thinking NC is going to become the new penn especially if migration keeps going as it was last time I looked. Anyway If trump can take ohio NC and florida He wins. If he drops any of those he loses.

Only if he also takes Nevada and Iowa which are both currently looking extremely unsafe for him. He needs to go 5/5 on swing states. Hillary needs to go 1/5. Trump's going to need to split his resources to prop up what should have been easy wins, ground game is going to matter a lot.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42654 Posts
October 05 2016 15:20 GMT
#106871
On October 06 2016 00:06 kwizach wrote:
Show nested quote +
Libertarian VP Candidate Bill Weld Gives Up, Will Focus on Preventing Trump Presidency

As some presumably small portion of Americans sat through a dull debate between the Republican and Democratic vice-presidential nominees on Tuesday night, a far more interesting drama was unfolding within the Libertarian ticket. VP candidate Bill Weld told the Boston Globe that he plans to focus exclusively on attacking Donald Trump for the remainder of the campaign — essentially admitting that running mate Gary Johnson can not become president.

Trump has Weld’s “full attention,” he explained, because his agenda is so terrible it’s “in a class by itself.” “I think Mr. Trump’s proposals in the foreign policy area, including nuclear proliferation, tariffs, and free trade, would be so hurtful, domestically and in the world, that he has my full attention,” Weld said.

Apparently he avoided acknowledging that his new mission amounts to working to make Hillary Clinton president. He pointed out that he disagrees with Clinton on fiscal and military issues, though last week on MSNBC he said he’s “not sure anybody is more qualified than Hillary Clinton to be president of the United States.”

Source

For some reason I thought it'd be Stein who did this.

In constituency FPTP tactical voting has always been a thing and third parties in the UK have routinely struck bargains to play kingmaker, tacitly agreeing to let the stronger party steal their votes in exchange for policy concessions. Given Trump's commitment to "bring back coal 100%" I thought Stein might ask voters to vote for Hillary in swing states, if Hillary adopted one of Stein's policies.

I admire Weld's pragmatism, at least.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
iPlaY.NettleS
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Australia4329 Posts
October 05 2016 15:25 GMT
#106872
Hillary is getting 200 to her rallies, Trump is filling stadiums with 20,000+.
I'd be more worried about turnout than the polls if i were a democrat.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7PvoI6gvQs
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-05 15:26:27
October 05 2016 15:25 GMT
#106873
not surprising for weld to be a pragmatist, given his history.

nettles -> those rally numbers have been addressed many times already, please look up one of the answers to them.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands21667 Posts
October 05 2016 15:27 GMT
#106874
On October 06 2016 00:25 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Hillary is getting 200 to her rallies, Trump is filling stadiums with 20,000+.
I'd be more worried about turnout than the polls if i were a democrat.

Good thing then that there is no real correlation between rally numbers and voter turnout.

Filling stadiums sure didnt help Bernie win the popular vote.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-05 15:29:20
October 05 2016 15:28 GMT
#106875
On October 06 2016 00:27 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 06 2016 00:25 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Hillary is getting 200 to her rallies, Trump is filling stadiums with 20,000+.
I'd be more worried about turnout than the polls if i were a democrat.

Good thing then that there is no real correlation between rally numbers and voter turnout.

Filling stadiums sure didnt help Bernie win the popular vote.

Good thing that Hillary's truly remarkable general-election electability helped her win the primary.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States42654 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-10-05 15:29:58
October 05 2016 15:29 GMT
#106876
On October 06 2016 00:28 LegalLord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 06 2016 00:27 Gorsameth wrote:
On October 06 2016 00:25 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Hillary is getting 200 to her rallies, Trump is filling stadiums with 20,000+.
I'd be more worried about turnout than the polls if i were a democrat.

Good thing then that there is no real correlation between rally numbers and voter turnout.

Filling stadiums sure didnt help Bernie win the popular vote.

Good thing that Hillary's truly remarkable general-election electability helped her win the primary.

Why win because of your charisma when you can win in spite of it.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
October 05 2016 15:33 GMT
#106877
On October 06 2016 00:29 KwarK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 06 2016 00:28 LegalLord wrote:
On October 06 2016 00:27 Gorsameth wrote:
On October 06 2016 00:25 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Hillary is getting 200 to her rallies, Trump is filling stadiums with 20,000+.
I'd be more worried about turnout than the polls if i were a democrat.

Good thing then that there is no real correlation between rally numbers and voter turnout.

Filling stadiums sure didnt help Bernie win the popular vote.

Good thing that Hillary's truly remarkable general-election electability helped her win the primary.

Why win because of your charisma when you can win in spite of it.

If the opposing party has a historically terrible candidate then you have to compensate by also pushing someone who is buttfucking terrible.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
TheDwf
Profile Joined November 2011
France19747 Posts
October 05 2016 15:39 GMT
#106878
On October 06 2016 00:20 KwarK wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 06 2016 00:06 kwizach wrote:
Libertarian VP Candidate Bill Weld Gives Up, Will Focus on Preventing Trump Presidency

As some presumably small portion of Americans sat through a dull debate between the Republican and Democratic vice-presidential nominees on Tuesday night, a far more interesting drama was unfolding within the Libertarian ticket. VP candidate Bill Weld told the Boston Globe that he plans to focus exclusively on attacking Donald Trump for the remainder of the campaign — essentially admitting that running mate Gary Johnson can not become president.

Trump has Weld’s “full attention,” he explained, because his agenda is so terrible it’s “in a class by itself.” “I think Mr. Trump’s proposals in the foreign policy area, including nuclear proliferation, tariffs, and free trade, would be so hurtful, domestically and in the world, that he has my full attention,” Weld said.

Apparently he avoided acknowledging that his new mission amounts to working to make Hillary Clinton president. He pointed out that he disagrees with Clinton on fiscal and military issues, though last week on MSNBC he said he’s “not sure anybody is more qualified than Hillary Clinton to be president of the United States.”

Source

For some reason I thought it'd be Stein who did this.

In constituency FPTP tactical voting has always been a thing and third parties in the UK have routinely struck bargains to play kingmaker, tacitly agreeing to let the stronger party steal their votes in exchange for policy concessions. Given Trump's commitment to "bring back coal 100%" I thought Stein might ask voters to vote for Hillary in swing states, if Hillary adopted one of Stein's policies.

Given her views on the “lesser or two evils” blackmail, I don't think she would do that.
Biff The Understudy
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
France7888 Posts
October 05 2016 15:43 GMT
#106879
On October 06 2016 00:16 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2016/10/04/nigel_farage_will_attend_second_debate_as_trumps_guest_rise_above_the_catfight.html

Nigel Farage Will Attend Second Debate As Trump's Guest

Show nested quote +
The leader behind 'Brexit' speaks with Fox News Channel's Neil Cavuto about his advice for Donald Trump ahead of the second presidential debate. Farage will attend the debate as a guest of Mr. Trump.

"The advice I have for Donald Trump, I don't have to give it to him face-to-face," the UKIP leader said. "I will share it with you right now on this show, it is very simple. The Clinton team analyzed that Trump is a proud man -- proud of his achievements, proud of himself, proud of his family. And if you attack him on his record, try to tear to bits his business empire and his past, he will try to defend himself."

He continued: "My advice to Mr. Trump is dead simple: Do not be accused of financial impropriety by the Clintons. Do not be told you are a misogynist by a woman whose Foundation takes money from Saudi Arabia. Rise above, don't get involved in some sort of terrible catfight. Rise above it and tell the American people why you are the candidate for change."

Oh I love it, I love it, I love it. So basically being a racist demagogic scumbag gets you a place in Trump's team, right?

Pity Voldemort, Darth Vader and Sauron are all fictional, they would have been invited to the Trump campaign.
The fellow who is out to burn things up is the counterpart of the fool who thinks he can save the world. The world needs neither to be burned up nor to be saved. The world is, we are. Transients, if we buck it; here to stay if we accept it. ~H.Miller
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
October 05 2016 15:44 GMT
#106880
I dunno, they could invite Darth Vader from Ukraine and I'm sure that would be good enough.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
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