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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On October 03 2016 07:06 Toadesstern wrote:
guys... it's a joke. Kwark always does that to troll people he disagrees with for his own enjoyment
It's also our resident Putin bot, Zeo.
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United States44409 Posts
On October 03 2016 07:06 Toadesstern wrote:
guys... it's a joke. Kwark always does that to troll people he disagrees with for his own enjoyment
I was 110% serious. The average Trump supporter has a very difficult relationship with reality and has to try very hard to maintain their belief in the Trump friendly version of reality against the evidence of their own eyes and ears. For example believing that Trump never supported the Iraq was when listening to Trump's voice explain that he supports the Iraq war or insisting that Ford is leaving America when Ford insists that their American manufacturing is growing. It's one of the reasons they have so much hatred for fact checkers and the media. Basically any institution which checks a claim against reality is going to come into their crosshairs as an enemy that must be disbelieved, dismissed and destroyed.
This belief in their own alternate reality is much easier for them when they surround themselves with likeminded individuals and censor any opposing views. It's why they form insular communities built on censorship. The Trump supporters here on tl are unusual in that they seem to willingly expose themselves to another perspective, and they should be commended for that. But they're a minority, the reason Trump is so underrepresented here compared to nationally in the US is in part due to Trump supporters having zero desire to hear anything but Trump, and even then only if it's the latest Trump approved Trump and not the old Trump which must be updated by the Minitruth.
This trait is particularly obvious by their poll manipulation across the internet which even stretched to tl polls. Anyone who actually watched the debate saw Trump implode. It's partly why there were immediate accusations of Hillary wearing a wire, moderator bias and microphone issues from Trump supporters. They knew damn well he lost and wanted to explain why it wasn't his fault. But they couldn't allow the polls to show Trump losing so they started spamming them in order to try and make reality more closely resemble the reality they wanted. They couldn't do anything about the debate performance, in which Trump had a meltdown, but they could pretend that didn't happen and that nobody saw it by rigging the polls so that it'd look more like he won to them, as long as they didn't actually look at any part of the debate.
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On October 03 2016 07:18 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2016 07:06 Toadesstern wrote:
guys... it's a joke. Kwark always does that to troll people he disagrees with for his own enjoyment I was 110% serious. The average Trump supporter has a very difficult relationship with reality and has to try very hard to maintain their belief in the Trump friendly version of reality against the evidence of their own eyes and ears. For example believing that Trump never supported the Iraq was when listening to Trump's voice explain that he supports the Iraq war or insisting that Ford is leaving America when Ford insists that their American manufacturing is growing. It's one of the reasons they have so much hatred for fact checkers and the media. Basically any institution which checks a claim against reality is going to come into their crosshairs as an enemy that must be disbelieved, dismissed and destroyed. This belief in their own alternate reality is much easier for them when they surround themselves with likeminded individuals and censor any opposing views. It's why they form insular communities built on censorship. The Trump supporters here on tl are unusual in that they seem to willingly expose themselves to another perspective, and they should be commended for that. But they're a minority, the reason Trump is so underrepresented here compared to nationally in the US is in part due to Trump supporters having zero desire to hear anything but Trump, and even then only if it's the latest Trump approved Trump and not the old Trump which must be updated by the Minitruth.
I didn't mean to say that what you tried to say was supposed to be a joke, I just wanted to point out (to Zeo), that your choice of words was on purpose to make fun of those kind of people since he apparently missed out on that. Much in the same way as this
On October 03 2016 07:12 ticklishmusic wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2016 06:23 zeo wrote:On October 03 2016 06:20 KwarK wrote:On October 03 2016 05:59 Titan107 wrote:
This thread seems to be a Hillary circle-jerk. Trump supporters typically don't get online so much and when they do they very rarely leave their safe spaces like /r/The_Donald which ban anyone questioning whatever Trump said most recently (even if that person is quoting Trump from before). They're not too keen on the internet, too many facts floating around which get in the way of how they feel. Psychological projectionPsychological projection is a theory in psychology in which humans defend themselves against their own unconscious impulses or qualities (both positive and negative) by denying their existence in themselves while attributing them to others.[1] For example, a person who is habitually rude may constantly accuse other people of being rude. It incorporates blame shifting.
According to some research, the projection of one's unconscious qualities onto others is a common process in everyday life.[2] 67 days since Trump's last press conference. Just thought I'd let you know.
was
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The trump media surrogates today have been especially unhinged. Giuliani was claiming that "everybody" commits infidelity, Chris Chistie was trying to say that the leaked tax returns made Trump look good, that it was "genius" to use loopholes.
Oh, and nevermind that wikileaks rumor Roger Stone was promoting.
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On October 03 2016 07:18 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2016 07:06 Toadesstern wrote:
guys... it's a joke. Kwark always does that to troll people he disagrees with for his own enjoyment I was 110% serious. The average Trump supporter has a very difficult relationship with reality and has to try very hard to maintain their belief in the Trump friendly version of reality against the evidence of their own eyes and ears. For example believing that Trump never supported the Iraq was when listening to Trump's voice explain that he supports the Iraq war or insisting that Ford is leaving America when Ford insists that their American manufacturing is growing. It's one of the reasons they have so much hatred for fact checkers and the media. Basically any institution which checks a claim against reality is going to come into their crosshairs as an enemy that must be disbelieved, dismissed and destroyed. This belief in their own alternate reality is much easier for them when they surround themselves with likeminded individuals and censor any opposing views. It's why they form insular communities built on censorship. The Trump supporters here on tl are unusual in that they seem to willingly expose themselves to another perspective, and they should be commended for that. But they're a minority, the reason Trump is so underrepresented here compared to nationally in the US is in part due to Trump supporters having zero desire to hear anything but Trump, and even then only if it's the latest Trump approved Trump and not the old Trump which must be updated by the Minitruth. This trait is particularly obvious by their poll manipulation across the internet which even stretched to tl polls. Anyone who actually watched the debate saw Trump implode. It's partly why there were immediate accusations of Hillary wearing a wire, moderator bias and microphone issues from Trump supporters. They knew damn well he lost and wanted to explain why it wasn't his fault. But they couldn't allow the polls to show Trump losing so they started spamming them in order to try and make reality more closely resemble the reality they wanted. They couldn't do anything about the debate performance, in which Trump had a meltdown, but they could pretend that didn't happen and that nobody saw it by rigging the polls so that it'd look more like he won to them, as long as they didn't actually look at any part of the debate.
All you are describing is a bias in different perspectives, you aren't immune to it buddy
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On October 03 2016 07:24 biology]major wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2016 07:18 KwarK wrote:On October 03 2016 07:06 Toadesstern wrote:
guys... it's a joke. Kwark always does that to troll people he disagrees with for his own enjoyment I was 110% serious. The average Trump supporter has a very difficult relationship with reality and has to try very hard to maintain their belief in the Trump friendly version of reality against the evidence of their own eyes and ears. For example believing that Trump never supported the Iraq was when listening to Trump's voice explain that he supports the Iraq war or insisting that Ford is leaving America when Ford insists that their American manufacturing is growing. It's one of the reasons they have so much hatred for fact checkers and the media. Basically any institution which checks a claim against reality is going to come into their crosshairs as an enemy that must be disbelieved, dismissed and destroyed. This belief in their own alternate reality is much easier for them when they surround themselves with likeminded individuals and censor any opposing views. It's why they form insular communities built on censorship. The Trump supporters here on tl are unusual in that they seem to willingly expose themselves to another perspective, and they should be commended for that. But they're a minority, the reason Trump is so underrepresented here compared to nationally in the US is in part due to Trump supporters having zero desire to hear anything but Trump, and even then only if it's the latest Trump approved Trump and not the old Trump which must be updated by the Minitruth. This trait is particularly obvious by their poll manipulation across the internet which even stretched to tl polls. Anyone who actually watched the debate saw Trump implode. It's partly why there were immediate accusations of Hillary wearing a wire, moderator bias and microphone issues from Trump supporters. They knew damn well he lost and wanted to explain why it wasn't his fault. But they couldn't allow the polls to show Trump losing so they started spamming them in order to try and make reality more closely resemble the reality they wanted. They couldn't do anything about the debate performance, in which Trump had a meltdown, but they could pretend that didn't happen and that nobody saw it by rigging the polls so that it'd look more like he won to them, as long as they didn't actually look at any part of the debate. All you are describing is a bias in different perspectives, you aren't immune to it buddy
I mean, if one person says 1+1=3 and the other 1+1=2 and I call the first one stupid, is that just bias and different perspective? Like, I know you can philosophically argue that yes, but really... like, what are the boundaries where bias as a concept is useful?
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On October 03 2016 07:18 KwarK wrote:
This belief in their own alternate reality is much easier for them when they surround themselves with likeminded individuals and censor any opposing views. It's why they form insular communities built on censorship. The Trump supporters here on tl are unusual in that they seem to willingly expose themselves to another perspective, and they should be commended for that. But they're a minority, the reason Trump is so underrepresented here compared to nationally in the US is in part due to Trump supporters having zero desire to hear anything but Trump, and even then only if it's the latest Trump approved Trump and not the old Trump which must be updated by the Minitruth.
Trump is not underrepresented here if you consider the demographic of this forum and that Trump is polling below 30% with the under 40 category
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On October 03 2016 07:12 ticklishmusic wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2016 06:23 zeo wrote:On October 03 2016 06:20 KwarK wrote:On October 03 2016 05:59 Titan107 wrote:
This thread seems to be a Hillary circle-jerk. Trump supporters typically don't get online so much and when they do they very rarely leave their safe spaces like /r/The_Donald which ban anyone questioning whatever Trump said most recently (even if that person is quoting Trump from before). They're not too keen on the internet, too many facts floating around which get in the way of how they feel. Psychological projectionPsychological projection is a theory in psychology in which humans defend themselves against their own unconscious impulses or qualities (both positive and negative) by denying their existence in themselves while attributing them to others.[1] For example, a person who is habitually rude may constantly accuse other people of being rude. It incorporates blame shifting.
According to some research, the projection of one's unconscious qualities onto others is a common process in everyday life.[2] 67 days since Trump's last press conference. Just thought I'd let you know.
302 days have passed since Clintons last one, thank you for reminding me to look it up again. She will probably hold one right after the election so the magical 365 day mark is unattainable. Shame really 
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United States44409 Posts
On October 03 2016 07:24 biology]major wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2016 07:18 KwarK wrote:On October 03 2016 07:06 Toadesstern wrote:
guys... it's a joke. Kwark always does that to troll people he disagrees with for his own enjoyment I was 110% serious. The average Trump supporter has a very difficult relationship with reality and has to try very hard to maintain their belief in the Trump friendly version of reality against the evidence of their own eyes and ears. For example believing that Trump never supported the Iraq was when listening to Trump's voice explain that he supports the Iraq war or insisting that Ford is leaving America when Ford insists that their American manufacturing is growing. It's one of the reasons they have so much hatred for fact checkers and the media. Basically any institution which checks a claim against reality is going to come into their crosshairs as an enemy that must be disbelieved, dismissed and destroyed. This belief in their own alternate reality is much easier for them when they surround themselves with likeminded individuals and censor any opposing views. It's why they form insular communities built on censorship. The Trump supporters here on tl are unusual in that they seem to willingly expose themselves to another perspective, and they should be commended for that. But they're a minority, the reason Trump is so underrepresented here compared to nationally in the US is in part due to Trump supporters having zero desire to hear anything but Trump, and even then only if it's the latest Trump approved Trump and not the old Trump which must be updated by the Minitruth. This trait is particularly obvious by their poll manipulation across the internet which even stretched to tl polls. Anyone who actually watched the debate saw Trump implode. It's partly why there were immediate accusations of Hillary wearing a wire, moderator bias and microphone issues from Trump supporters. They knew damn well he lost and wanted to explain why it wasn't his fault. But they couldn't allow the polls to show Trump losing so they started spamming them in order to try and make reality more closely resemble the reality they wanted. They couldn't do anything about the debate performance, in which Trump had a meltdown, but they could pretend that didn't happen and that nobody saw it by rigging the polls so that it'd look more like he won to them, as long as they didn't actually look at any part of the debate. All you are describing is a bias in different perspectives, you aren't immune to it buddy
I'm really not. I'll happily admit I have my own bias, assumptions and beliefs etc but if I am confronted with evidence to the contrary that I cannot explain I don't simply get angry at the evidence. If Hillary lost a debate I wouldn't be out there spamming polls so that I could check the polls, see that she didn't really lose and preserve my delusions because the polls said she won (after I rigged them). When Doodsmack posted that thing about Bill being a rapist I remarked that it seemed plausible etc. What Newt Gingrich etc do when they say it doesn't matter what the facts are, it only matters what people feel about what they believe the facts to be, or what Trump himself does when he gets into arguments against recordings of himself, is a completely different thing. To the average Trump supporter it's not about reason, it's about faith. The more extreme the leap of faith required, the better. To really support Trump you need to be able to watch Trump say 1+1=3 and swear blind that it's true, until he says that 1+1=4 at which point you deny that he ever said it was 3. It's actually rather Orwellian, they really do seem to believe it.
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On October 03 2016 07:29 Evotroid wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2016 07:24 biology]major wrote:On October 03 2016 07:18 KwarK wrote:On October 03 2016 07:06 Toadesstern wrote:
guys... it's a joke. Kwark always does that to troll people he disagrees with for his own enjoyment I was 110% serious. The average Trump supporter has a very difficult relationship with reality and has to try very hard to maintain their belief in the Trump friendly version of reality against the evidence of their own eyes and ears. For example believing that Trump never supported the Iraq was when listening to Trump's voice explain that he supports the Iraq war or insisting that Ford is leaving America when Ford insists that their American manufacturing is growing. It's one of the reasons they have so much hatred for fact checkers and the media. Basically any institution which checks a claim against reality is going to come into their crosshairs as an enemy that must be disbelieved, dismissed and destroyed. This belief in their own alternate reality is much easier for them when they surround themselves with likeminded individuals and censor any opposing views. It's why they form insular communities built on censorship. The Trump supporters here on tl are unusual in that they seem to willingly expose themselves to another perspective, and they should be commended for that. But they're a minority, the reason Trump is so underrepresented here compared to nationally in the US is in part due to Trump supporters having zero desire to hear anything but Trump, and even then only if it's the latest Trump approved Trump and not the old Trump which must be updated by the Minitruth. This trait is particularly obvious by their poll manipulation across the internet which even stretched to tl polls. Anyone who actually watched the debate saw Trump implode. It's partly why there were immediate accusations of Hillary wearing a wire, moderator bias and microphone issues from Trump supporters. They knew damn well he lost and wanted to explain why it wasn't his fault. But they couldn't allow the polls to show Trump losing so they started spamming them in order to try and make reality more closely resemble the reality they wanted. They couldn't do anything about the debate performance, in which Trump had a meltdown, but they could pretend that didn't happen and that nobody saw it by rigging the polls so that it'd look more like he won to them, as long as they didn't actually look at any part of the debate. All you are describing is a bias in different perspectives, you aren't immune to it buddy I mean, if one person says 1+1=3 and the other 1+1=2 and I call the first one stupid, is that just bias and different perspective? Like, I know you can philosophically argue that yes, but really... like, what are the boundaries where bias as a concept is useful?
There is very little about this election where 1 + 1 = 2. We are discussing complex problems, with complex people claiming to have solutions to said problems, and we can't verify in any capacity their intent outside of interpretation. Most people in this thread minimizes Clinton errors, while magnifying trump errors. Like for when trump said he was initially for the Iraq war, he was private citizen who said "yeah idk sure", then he's on record being against it consistently. This is coming from a guy who is extremely lose with his words to begin with, the left will take this and spin it to their narrative the same way I spun it to fit mine.
The people claiming to be above the narratives as if they have some objective look into this process lack self awareness and are deluding themselves.
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On October 03 2016 07:34 zeo wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2016 07:12 ticklishmusic wrote:On October 03 2016 06:23 zeo wrote:On October 03 2016 06:20 KwarK wrote:On October 03 2016 05:59 Titan107 wrote:
This thread seems to be a Hillary circle-jerk. Trump supporters typically don't get online so much and when they do they very rarely leave their safe spaces like /r/The_Donald which ban anyone questioning whatever Trump said most recently (even if that person is quoting Trump from before). They're not too keen on the internet, too many facts floating around which get in the way of how they feel. Psychological projectionPsychological projection is a theory in psychology in which humans defend themselves against their own unconscious impulses or qualities (both positive and negative) by denying their existence in themselves while attributing them to others.[1] For example, a person who is habitually rude may constantly accuse other people of being rude. It incorporates blame shifting.
According to some research, the projection of one's unconscious qualities onto others is a common process in everyday life.[2] 67 days since Trump's last press conference. Just thought I'd let you know. 302 days have passed since Clintons last one, thank you for reminding me to look it up again. She will probably hold one right after the election so the magical 365 day mark is unattainable. Shame really
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/HlRW2Fd.png)
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/09/19/after-dogging-hillary-clinton-journalists-now-track-donald-trumps-news-conference-drought/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-fix/wp/2016/09/08/hillary-clintons-finally-gave-a-press-conference-what-took-so-long/
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United States44409 Posts
On October 03 2016 07:36 biology]major wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2016 07:29 Evotroid wrote:On October 03 2016 07:24 biology]major wrote:On October 03 2016 07:18 KwarK wrote:On October 03 2016 07:06 Toadesstern wrote:
guys... it's a joke. Kwark always does that to troll people he disagrees with for his own enjoyment I was 110% serious. The average Trump supporter has a very difficult relationship with reality and has to try very hard to maintain their belief in the Trump friendly version of reality against the evidence of their own eyes and ears. For example believing that Trump never supported the Iraq was when listening to Trump's voice explain that he supports the Iraq war or insisting that Ford is leaving America when Ford insists that their American manufacturing is growing. It's one of the reasons they have so much hatred for fact checkers and the media. Basically any institution which checks a claim against reality is going to come into their crosshairs as an enemy that must be disbelieved, dismissed and destroyed. This belief in their own alternate reality is much easier for them when they surround themselves with likeminded individuals and censor any opposing views. It's why they form insular communities built on censorship. The Trump supporters here on tl are unusual in that they seem to willingly expose themselves to another perspective, and they should be commended for that. But they're a minority, the reason Trump is so underrepresented here compared to nationally in the US is in part due to Trump supporters having zero desire to hear anything but Trump, and even then only if it's the latest Trump approved Trump and not the old Trump which must be updated by the Minitruth. This trait is particularly obvious by their poll manipulation across the internet which even stretched to tl polls. Anyone who actually watched the debate saw Trump implode. It's partly why there were immediate accusations of Hillary wearing a wire, moderator bias and microphone issues from Trump supporters. They knew damn well he lost and wanted to explain why it wasn't his fault. But they couldn't allow the polls to show Trump losing so they started spamming them in order to try and make reality more closely resemble the reality they wanted. They couldn't do anything about the debate performance, in which Trump had a meltdown, but they could pretend that didn't happen and that nobody saw it by rigging the polls so that it'd look more like he won to them, as long as they didn't actually look at any part of the debate. All you are describing is a bias in different perspectives, you aren't immune to it buddy I mean, if one person says 1+1=3 and the other 1+1=2 and I call the first one stupid, is that just bias and different perspective? Like, I know you can philosophically argue that yes, but really... like, what are the boundaries where bias as a concept is useful? There is very little about this election where 1 + 1 = 2. We are discussing complex problems, with complex people claiming to have solutions to said problems, and we can't verify in any capacity their intent outside of interpretation. Most people in this thread minimizes Clinton errors, while magnifying trump errors. Like for when trump said he was initially for the Iraq war, he was private citizen who said "yeah idk sure", then he's on record being against it consistently. This is coming from a guy who is extremely lose with his words to begin with, the left will take this and spin it to their narrative the same way I spun it to fit mine. The people claiming to be above the narratives as if they have some objective look into this process lack self awareness and are deluding themselves.
Except Trump didn't say "The American public, myself included, was fed false information that led us into the disastrous war in Iraq. Once I became aware of this, in early 2003, my view changed. If I had been President in 2002 I would have known what I later learned and been against it from the outset". Instead he swore blind that he never supported it and turned it into a test of faith, demanding that all who heard him, the moderator included, take him at his word.
There are plenty of good reasons for the truth of what happened, him supporting it and then changing his mind. But he didn't make that argument, he denied the facts.
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On October 03 2016 07:35 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2016 07:24 biology]major wrote:On October 03 2016 07:18 KwarK wrote:On October 03 2016 07:06 Toadesstern wrote:
guys... it's a joke. Kwark always does that to troll people he disagrees with for his own enjoyment I was 110% serious. The average Trump supporter has a very difficult relationship with reality and has to try very hard to maintain their belief in the Trump friendly version of reality against the evidence of their own eyes and ears. For example believing that Trump never supported the Iraq was when listening to Trump's voice explain that he supports the Iraq war or insisting that Ford is leaving America when Ford insists that their American manufacturing is growing. It's one of the reasons they have so much hatred for fact checkers and the media. Basically any institution which checks a claim against reality is going to come into their crosshairs as an enemy that must be disbelieved, dismissed and destroyed. This belief in their own alternate reality is much easier for them when they surround themselves with likeminded individuals and censor any opposing views. It's why they form insular communities built on censorship. The Trump supporters here on tl are unusual in that they seem to willingly expose themselves to another perspective, and they should be commended for that. But they're a minority, the reason Trump is so underrepresented here compared to nationally in the US is in part due to Trump supporters having zero desire to hear anything but Trump, and even then only if it's the latest Trump approved Trump and not the old Trump which must be updated by the Minitruth. This trait is particularly obvious by their poll manipulation across the internet which even stretched to tl polls. Anyone who actually watched the debate saw Trump implode. It's partly why there were immediate accusations of Hillary wearing a wire, moderator bias and microphone issues from Trump supporters. They knew damn well he lost and wanted to explain why it wasn't his fault. But they couldn't allow the polls to show Trump losing so they started spamming them in order to try and make reality more closely resemble the reality they wanted. They couldn't do anything about the debate performance, in which Trump had a meltdown, but they could pretend that didn't happen and that nobody saw it by rigging the polls so that it'd look more like he won to them, as long as they didn't actually look at any part of the debate. All you are describing is a bias in different perspectives, you aren't immune to it buddy I'm really not. I'll happily admit I have my own bias, assumptions and beliefs etc but if I am confronted with evidence to the contrary that I cannot explain I don't simply get angry at the evidence. If Hillary lost a debate I wouldn't be out there spamming polls so that I could check the polls, see that she didn't really lose and preserve my delusions because the polls said she won (after I rigged them). When Doodsmack posted that thing about Bill being a rapist I remarked that it seemed plausible etc. What Newt Gingrich etc do when they say it doesn't matter what the facts are, it only matters what people feel about what they believe the facts to be, or what Trump himself does when he gets into arguments against recordings of himself, is a completely different thing. To the average Trump supporter it's not about reason, it's about faith. The more extreme the leap of faith required, the better. To really support Trump you need to be able to watch Trump say 1+1=3 and swear blind that it's true, until he says that 1+1=4 at which point you deny that he ever said it was 3. It's actually rather Orwellian, they really do seem to believe it.
Trust me I doubt the_donald which is probably as biased as you say but they are so fed up with status quo, so fed up with perceived corruption that they cannot accept a Clinton victory. They will cling to hope and contort everything to fit their narrative because they believe in trump and more importantly loathe Clinton and the status quo she represents. The same can be said of extreme Clinton supporters who see trump as a racist, and thus see all of his supporters as racist. My Facebook is commonly filled with "if you support trump, you are not only an idiot but a racist/sexist/xenophobic". Do you actually know if trump is a racist or are you contorting something to fit your narrative? So when you say that it's about faith to average trump supporter, I would just change that to the average voter in general.
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United States44409 Posts
On October 03 2016 07:46 biology]major wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2016 07:35 KwarK wrote:On October 03 2016 07:24 biology]major wrote:On October 03 2016 07:18 KwarK wrote:On October 03 2016 07:06 Toadesstern wrote:
guys... it's a joke. Kwark always does that to troll people he disagrees with for his own enjoyment I was 110% serious. The average Trump supporter has a very difficult relationship with reality and has to try very hard to maintain their belief in the Trump friendly version of reality against the evidence of their own eyes and ears. For example believing that Trump never supported the Iraq was when listening to Trump's voice explain that he supports the Iraq war or insisting that Ford is leaving America when Ford insists that their American manufacturing is growing. It's one of the reasons they have so much hatred for fact checkers and the media. Basically any institution which checks a claim against reality is going to come into their crosshairs as an enemy that must be disbelieved, dismissed and destroyed. This belief in their own alternate reality is much easier for them when they surround themselves with likeminded individuals and censor any opposing views. It's why they form insular communities built on censorship. The Trump supporters here on tl are unusual in that they seem to willingly expose themselves to another perspective, and they should be commended for that. But they're a minority, the reason Trump is so underrepresented here compared to nationally in the US is in part due to Trump supporters having zero desire to hear anything but Trump, and even then only if it's the latest Trump approved Trump and not the old Trump which must be updated by the Minitruth. This trait is particularly obvious by their poll manipulation across the internet which even stretched to tl polls. Anyone who actually watched the debate saw Trump implode. It's partly why there were immediate accusations of Hillary wearing a wire, moderator bias and microphone issues from Trump supporters. They knew damn well he lost and wanted to explain why it wasn't his fault. But they couldn't allow the polls to show Trump losing so they started spamming them in order to try and make reality more closely resemble the reality they wanted. They couldn't do anything about the debate performance, in which Trump had a meltdown, but they could pretend that didn't happen and that nobody saw it by rigging the polls so that it'd look more like he won to them, as long as they didn't actually look at any part of the debate. All you are describing is a bias in different perspectives, you aren't immune to it buddy I'm really not. I'll happily admit I have my own bias, assumptions and beliefs etc but if I am confronted with evidence to the contrary that I cannot explain I don't simply get angry at the evidence. If Hillary lost a debate I wouldn't be out there spamming polls so that I could check the polls, see that she didn't really lose and preserve my delusions because the polls said she won (after I rigged them). When Doodsmack posted that thing about Bill being a rapist I remarked that it seemed plausible etc. What Newt Gingrich etc do when they say it doesn't matter what the facts are, it only matters what people feel about what they believe the facts to be, or what Trump himself does when he gets into arguments against recordings of himself, is a completely different thing. To the average Trump supporter it's not about reason, it's about faith. The more extreme the leap of faith required, the better. To really support Trump you need to be able to watch Trump say 1+1=3 and swear blind that it's true, until he says that 1+1=4 at which point you deny that he ever said it was 3. It's actually rather Orwellian, they really do seem to believe it. Trust me I doubt the_donald which is probably as biased as you say but they are so fed up with status quo, so fed up with perceived corruption that they cannot accept a Clinton victory. They will cling to hope and contort everything to fit their narrative because they believe in trump and more importantly loathe Clinton and the status quo she represents. The same can be said of extreme Clinton supporters who see trump as a racist, and thus see all of his supporters as racist. My Facebook is commonly filled with "if you support trump, you are not only an idiot but a racist/sexist/xenophobic". Do you actually know if trump is a racist or are you contorting something to fit your narrative? So when you say that it's about faith to average trump supporter, I would just change that to the average voter in general.
He instructed his employees to mark the rental applications of African Americans with a C for coloured so that they could be selectively denied. That's pretty racist. I don't know what your standard of proof is though so maybe for you that doesn't count.
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On October 03 2016 06:19 Doodsmack wrote:
So is there anything that Trump both says and lives by yet?
$
Also, ego.
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On October 03 2016 07:52 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2016 07:46 biology]major wrote:On October 03 2016 07:35 KwarK wrote:On October 03 2016 07:24 biology]major wrote:On October 03 2016 07:18 KwarK wrote:On October 03 2016 07:06 Toadesstern wrote:
guys... it's a joke. Kwark always does that to troll people he disagrees with for his own enjoyment I was 110% serious. The average Trump supporter has a very difficult relationship with reality and has to try very hard to maintain their belief in the Trump friendly version of reality against the evidence of their own eyes and ears. For example believing that Trump never supported the Iraq was when listening to Trump's voice explain that he supports the Iraq war or insisting that Ford is leaving America when Ford insists that their American manufacturing is growing. It's one of the reasons they have so much hatred for fact checkers and the media. Basically any institution which checks a claim against reality is going to come into their crosshairs as an enemy that must be disbelieved, dismissed and destroyed. This belief in their own alternate reality is much easier for them when they surround themselves with likeminded individuals and censor any opposing views. It's why they form insular communities built on censorship. The Trump supporters here on tl are unusual in that they seem to willingly expose themselves to another perspective, and they should be commended for that. But they're a minority, the reason Trump is so underrepresented here compared to nationally in the US is in part due to Trump supporters having zero desire to hear anything but Trump, and even then only if it's the latest Trump approved Trump and not the old Trump which must be updated by the Minitruth. This trait is particularly obvious by their poll manipulation across the internet which even stretched to tl polls. Anyone who actually watched the debate saw Trump implode. It's partly why there were immediate accusations of Hillary wearing a wire, moderator bias and microphone issues from Trump supporters. They knew damn well he lost and wanted to explain why it wasn't his fault. But they couldn't allow the polls to show Trump losing so they started spamming them in order to try and make reality more closely resemble the reality they wanted. They couldn't do anything about the debate performance, in which Trump had a meltdown, but they could pretend that didn't happen and that nobody saw it by rigging the polls so that it'd look more like he won to them, as long as they didn't actually look at any part of the debate. All you are describing is a bias in different perspectives, you aren't immune to it buddy I'm really not. I'll happily admit I have my own bias, assumptions and beliefs etc but if I am confronted with evidence to the contrary that I cannot explain I don't simply get angry at the evidence. If Hillary lost a debate I wouldn't be out there spamming polls so that I could check the polls, see that she didn't really lose and preserve my delusions because the polls said she won (after I rigged them). When Doodsmack posted that thing about Bill being a rapist I remarked that it seemed plausible etc. What Newt Gingrich etc do when they say it doesn't matter what the facts are, it only matters what people feel about what they believe the facts to be, or what Trump himself does when he gets into arguments against recordings of himself, is a completely different thing. To the average Trump supporter it's not about reason, it's about faith. The more extreme the leap of faith required, the better. To really support Trump you need to be able to watch Trump say 1+1=3 and swear blind that it's true, until he says that 1+1=4 at which point you deny that he ever said it was 3. It's actually rather Orwellian, they really do seem to believe it. Trust me I doubt the_donald which is probably as biased as you say but they are so fed up with status quo, so fed up with perceived corruption that they cannot accept a Clinton victory. They will cling to hope and contort everything to fit their narrative because they believe in trump and more importantly loathe Clinton and the status quo she represents. The same can be said of extreme Clinton supporters who see trump as a racist, and thus see all of his supporters as racist. My Facebook is commonly filled with "if you support trump, you are not only an idiot but a racist/sexist/xenophobic". Do you actually know if trump is a racist or are you contorting something to fit your narrative? So when you say that it's about faith to average trump supporter, I would just change that to the average voter in general. He instructed his employees to mark the rental applications of African Americans with a C for coloured so that they could be selectively denied. That's pretty racist. I don't know what your standard of proof is though so maybe for you that doesn't count.
I didn't know that, link me.
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On October 03 2016 07:46 biology]major wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2016 07:35 KwarK wrote:On October 03 2016 07:24 biology]major wrote:On October 03 2016 07:18 KwarK wrote:On October 03 2016 07:06 Toadesstern wrote:
guys... it's a joke. Kwark always does that to troll people he disagrees with for his own enjoyment I was 110% serious. The average Trump supporter has a very difficult relationship with reality and has to try very hard to maintain their belief in the Trump friendly version of reality against the evidence of their own eyes and ears. For example believing that Trump never supported the Iraq was when listening to Trump's voice explain that he supports the Iraq war or insisting that Ford is leaving America when Ford insists that their American manufacturing is growing. It's one of the reasons they have so much hatred for fact checkers and the media. Basically any institution which checks a claim against reality is going to come into their crosshairs as an enemy that must be disbelieved, dismissed and destroyed. This belief in their own alternate reality is much easier for them when they surround themselves with likeminded individuals and censor any opposing views. It's why they form insular communities built on censorship. The Trump supporters here on tl are unusual in that they seem to willingly expose themselves to another perspective, and they should be commended for that. But they're a minority, the reason Trump is so underrepresented here compared to nationally in the US is in part due to Trump supporters having zero desire to hear anything but Trump, and even then only if it's the latest Trump approved Trump and not the old Trump which must be updated by the Minitruth. This trait is particularly obvious by their poll manipulation across the internet which even stretched to tl polls. Anyone who actually watched the debate saw Trump implode. It's partly why there were immediate accusations of Hillary wearing a wire, moderator bias and microphone issues from Trump supporters. They knew damn well he lost and wanted to explain why it wasn't his fault. But they couldn't allow the polls to show Trump losing so they started spamming them in order to try and make reality more closely resemble the reality they wanted. They couldn't do anything about the debate performance, in which Trump had a meltdown, but they could pretend that didn't happen and that nobody saw it by rigging the polls so that it'd look more like he won to them, as long as they didn't actually look at any part of the debate. All you are describing is a bias in different perspectives, you aren't immune to it buddy I'm really not. I'll happily admit I have my own bias, assumptions and beliefs etc but if I am confronted with evidence to the contrary that I cannot explain I don't simply get angry at the evidence. If Hillary lost a debate I wouldn't be out there spamming polls so that I could check the polls, see that she didn't really lose and preserve my delusions because the polls said she won (after I rigged them). When Doodsmack posted that thing about Bill being a rapist I remarked that it seemed plausible etc. What Newt Gingrich etc do when they say it doesn't matter what the facts are, it only matters what people feel about what they believe the facts to be, or what Trump himself does when he gets into arguments against recordings of himself, is a completely different thing. To the average Trump supporter it's not about reason, it's about faith. The more extreme the leap of faith required, the better. To really support Trump you need to be able to watch Trump say 1+1=3 and swear blind that it's true, until he says that 1+1=4 at which point you deny that he ever said it was 3. It's actually rather Orwellian, they really do seem to believe it. Trust me I doubt the_donald which is probably as biased as you say but they are so fed up with status quo, so fed up with perceived corruption that they cannot accept a Clinton victory. They will cling to hope and contort everything to fit their narrative because they believe in trump and more importantly loathe Clinton and the status quo she represents. The same can be said of extreme Clinton supporters who see trump as a racist, and thus see all of his supporters as racist. My Facebook is commonly filled with "if you support trump, you are not only an idiot but a racist/sexist/xenophobic". Do you actually know if trump is a racist or are you contorting something to fit your narrative? So when you say that it's about faith to average trump supporter, I would just change that to the average voter in general.
I don't know how much more blatant the "black guys counting my money" quote could get as far as knowing he's racist.
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Lucky Trump's not running on a platform of raising taxes, then?
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The strange consequence of Trump supporters essentially picking and choosing what they want from him is that you have people that actually hold irreconcilable contradictory positions somehow supporting the same candidate.
The wall is a good example of this. We've had different Trump supporters in this thread separately argue that:
1) The wall is a stupid idea that he's obviously not going to follow through on, he's just saying it to appeal to a certain part of his base,
and
2) I think the wall is a good idea and no one else in politics would have the balls to suggest an idea like that
It's literally not possible for Trump to do something that actually ends up satisfying both of these groups but somehow they both support him anyway.
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EPT
