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On September 21 2016 11:49 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2016 11:30 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 21 2016 11:23 Plansix wrote:On September 21 2016 11:12 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 21 2016 11:07 Plansix wrote:On September 21 2016 11:05 GreenHorizons wrote:On September 21 2016 10:57 LegalLord wrote:
In a lot of ways I agree with GH that it's been a race to the bottom. But the simple yet rather unpleasant reality is that it's stupid to sit these things out, and if Hillary's attitude is the problem, then Trump and the Republican Party is not only not the solution, but the problem on steroids. There is no solution right now and the best choice is simply to vote for status quo mediocrity and wait for a better chance. If the 40+% of millennials actually abandon the 2 parties this election they will have no choice but to change, if they act like mindless sheep thinking they can only choose between the two the parties will still change, but it will be toward two versions of Republicanism leaving the left to chooses between who will screw them over less as so proudly proclaimed as the only sensible vote. Some of these people have no idea how this all looks. It's like Fox News today railing on how some Americans shouldn't have constitutional rights. For sake of the argument right in front of your faces folks are abandoning their "sincere beliefs" for political expediency. You are aware that age bracket rarely votes and always complains about felling left out of the system? The last person to capture that demographic was Obama. Before that, Bill in his first election, but only a little bit. This is nothing new with the exception of Obama. That's why no one is suggesting they don't vote. Abandoning the two parties is pointless if one also abandons politics. But if millions of people vote outside of the parties then the "oh it's stupid to vote third party" begins turning into "hey if the people who didn't like Clinton but hated Trump more joined forces with the people who refused to vote for either of them we could pick someone who isn't so distasteful for everyone". Writing off people under 35 because our education system is so pathetic they don't bother participating is remarkably shortsighted, elitist, and regressive. Nearly all wealthy people vote, regardless of age, that's not a coincidence. Except this is a problem in a lot of countries too. This isn't a problem with the parties or anything new this election. People under 35 don't vote because they don't feel politics represents them well enough. And it might not, but that is partly because they don't participate. And the parties have to court consistent voters because there is a limited window when the majority of voters are interested. Yeah... That's still shortsighted, elitist, and regressive. The best part about a Trump victory would be the massive slice of humble pie liberals, democrats, and the republican establishment would have to eat. I almost wouldn't even care what Trump did with the presidency after winning. I just want to savor that moment when he clinches victory.
Not caring about what Trump would do after winning is probably the only way to be comfortable with voting for him.
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On September 21 2016 11:05 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2016 10:57 LegalLord wrote:
In a lot of ways I agree with GH that it's been a race to the bottom. But the simple yet rather unpleasant reality is that it's stupid to sit these things out, and if Hillary's attitude is the problem, then Trump and the Republican Party is not only not the solution, but the problem on steroids. There is no solution right now and the best choice is simply to vote for status quo mediocrity and wait for a better chance. If the 40+% of millennials actually abandon the 2 parties this election they will have no choice but to change, if they act like mindless sheep thinking they can only choose between the two, the parties will still change, but it will be toward two versions of Republicanism leaving the left to choose between who will screw them over less as so proudly proclaimed as the only sensible vote.
Change is happening anyway. The next generation is way too progressive for the parties to stand as they are and hope for any success. Eight years from now Clinton+ can't beat Sanders+, and it's not even super close.
Now if Trump gets elected, the establishment gets to blame it on Sanders (it's bullshit, but so what?), and then they get to present the next candidate as "Not a crazy person", and say that we can't afford a progressive right now cause when we do, people like Trump get in power. I'm not saying that it'll work, it might not, but it's a way better position for them. And this is in the hopeful scenario that Trump hasn't fucked us all in the meantime by destroying climate change policies and by letting the republican majority do at their whim...
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Y'all are too hyperbolic. Hitler himself could win the presidency and he still wouldn't be able to get much shit done. Have more faith in the institutions.
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Honestly if trump wins I will just sit back and enjoy the whining from the people who either voted for him or refused to vote for Hillary, as they realize what they got themselves into. Maybe GH will come here when trump helps get a law passed that makes it easier for cops to kill black people and not get in trouble or something silly like that.
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On September 21 2016 12:07 xDaunt wrote:
Y'all are too hyperbolic. Hitler himself could win the presidency and he still wouldn't be able to get much shit done. Have more faith in the institutions.
Have you fucking seen the GOP? I have zero faith in institutions at this point, especially republicans. And if Trump wins, they control both houses, because there is no way Democrats take the senate and lose the white house. There is zero reason to believe that we won't see exactly what Trump is promising.
450K people a month. Just think about what that would look like. Fuck, half of that. All dumped off in south america. It would be the refugee crisis, but made by the US.
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On September 21 2016 12:07 xDaunt wrote:
Y'all are too hyperbolic. Hitler himself could win the presidency and he still wouldn't be able to get much shit done. Have more faith in the institutions.
So you'd vote for Trump even if he really was literally Hitler?
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On September 21 2016 12:07 xDaunt wrote:
Y'all are too hyperbolic. Hitler himself could win the presidency and he still wouldn't be able to get much shit done. Have more faith in the institutions.
"my candidate is so bad that I need to remind myself of the fact that the checks & balances exist to stop him while endorsing him"
do you regularly order the shittiest thing on the menu just because you know that the toilet is nearby?
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Where is this faith in the institutions when you're deeply concerned about every minor conspiracy theory or baseless accusation thrown Hillary's way.
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At this point, I'm sort of hoping Trump wins and tanks the US into such a deep pit of depression it no longer capable of projecting its power throughout the world.
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On September 21 2016 12:05 Nebuchad wrote:
Change is happening anyway. The next generation is way too progressive for the parties to stand as they are and hope for any success. Eight years from now Clinton+ can't beat Sanders+, and it's not even super close.
That's pretty misleading. People naturally become more conservative as they get older. The "old" people that are now supporting Trump were all peace, drugs and free love in the 70s. There's no reason to believe current generations won't become more conservative in their thinking as time goes on.
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On September 21 2016 12:19 Dan HH wrote:
Where is this faith in the institutions when you're deeply concerned about every minor conspiracy theory or baseless accusation thrown Hillary's way.
The establishment may be able to stop trump from deporting every mexican, using taxpayer money to build a giant useless wall, outlaw abortions, but they can't do anything against the corrupt tyrant Killary, should she have another seizure and fall on the big red button!
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On September 21 2016 12:19 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2016 12:07 xDaunt wrote:
Y'all are too hyperbolic. Hitler himself could win the presidency and he still wouldn't be able to get much shit done. Have more faith in the institutions. "my candidate is so bad that I need to remind myself of the fact that the checks & balances exist to stop him while endorsing him" do you regularly order the shittiest thing on the menu just because you know that the toilet is nearby?
That's not what he said... He reacted to the position that Trump might destroy the world, and he said Trump couldn't even if he wanted to. That doesn't imply that he thinks Trump wants to.
Now it's pretty obvious to you and me that Trump represents a much bigger danger to the world, but from what he said there's no evidence that he agrees.
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On September 21 2016 12:19 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2016 12:07 xDaunt wrote:
Y'all are too hyperbolic. Hitler himself could win the presidency and he still wouldn't be able to get much shit done. Have more faith in the institutions. "my candidate is so bad that I need to remind myself of the fact that the checks & balances exist to stop him while endorsing him" do you regularly order the shittiest thing on the menu just because you know that the toilet is nearby?
I don't think Trump is that bad. I just think that there's minimal risk in electing him even if I'm wrong on that point. We just went through eight years of having a rabidly liberal president get basically nothing done agenda-wise. If you judge him on what he ran on in 2008 and compare it to what he actually has accomplished, Obama is an utter failure. Thus when I see the Plansix's of the world talk about how mean daddy Trump will FUBAR this country if elected, I can't help but laugh.
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On September 21 2016 12:28 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2016 12:19 Nyxisto wrote:On September 21 2016 12:07 xDaunt wrote:
Y'all are too hyperbolic. Hitler himself could win the presidency and he still wouldn't be able to get much shit done. Have more faith in the institutions. "my candidate is so bad that I need to remind myself of the fact that the checks & balances exist to stop him while endorsing him" do you regularly order the shittiest thing on the menu just because you know that the toilet is nearby? That's not what he said... He reacted to the position that Trump might destroy the world, and he said Trump couldn't even if he wanted to. That doesn't imply that he thinks Trump wants to. Now it's pretty obvious to you and me that Trump represents a much bigger danger to the world, but from what he said there's no evidence that he agrees.
Nice to know that there's at least one intelligent poster around tonight.
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On September 21 2016 12:29 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2016 12:19 Nyxisto wrote:On September 21 2016 12:07 xDaunt wrote:
Y'all are too hyperbolic. Hitler himself could win the presidency and he still wouldn't be able to get much shit done. Have more faith in the institutions. "my candidate is so bad that I need to remind myself of the fact that the checks & balances exist to stop him while endorsing him" do you regularly order the shittiest thing on the menu just because you know that the toilet is nearby? I don't think Trump is that bad. I just think that there's minimal risk in electing him even if I'm wrong on that point. We just went through eight years of having a rabidly liberal president get basically nothing done agenda-wise. If you judge him on what he ran on in 2008 and compare it to what he actually has accomplished, Obama is an utter failure. Thus when I see the Plansix's of the world talk about how mean daddy Trump will FUBAR this country if elected, I can't help but laugh.
dubya was both less stupid and less evil than trump, and he basically bent our country over a barrel and tanked our economy our global influence and the whole world's opinion of us.
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On September 21 2016 12:29 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2016 12:19 Nyxisto wrote:On September 21 2016 12:07 xDaunt wrote:
Y'all are too hyperbolic. Hitler himself could win the presidency and he still wouldn't be able to get much shit done. Have more faith in the institutions. "my candidate is so bad that I need to remind myself of the fact that the checks & balances exist to stop him while endorsing him" do you regularly order the shittiest thing on the menu just because you know that the toilet is nearby? I don't think Trump is that bad. I just think that there's minimal risk in electing him even if I'm wrong on that point. We just went through eight years of having a rabidly liberal president get basically nothing done agenda-wise. If you judge him on what he ran on in 2008 and compare it to what he actually has accomplished, Obama is an utter failure. Thus when I see the Plansix's of the world talk about how mean daddy Trump will FUBAR this country if elected, I can't help but laugh.
You don't really need dictatorial scope to really mess up stuff. Foreign policy disasters can grow from even hilariously tiny diplomacy errors, and I cannot even imagine how Trump as a high level bureaucrat is even supposed to look.
The conservative and Washington dogma of stability and reliability doesn't count for Trump?
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On September 21 2016 12:15 hunts wrote:
Honestly if trump wins I will just sit back and enjoy the whining from the people who either voted for him or refused to vote for Hillary, as they realize what they got themselves into. Maybe GH will come here when trump helps get a law passed that makes it easier for cops to kill black people and not get in trouble or something silly like that.
lol I won't be whining, I'll be organizing.
I'm curious what such a law would look like though.
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On September 21 2016 12:27 Amarok wrote:Show nested quote +On September 21 2016 12:05 Nebuchad wrote:
Change is happening anyway. The next generation is way too progressive for the parties to stand as they are and hope for any success. Eight years from now Clinton+ can't beat Sanders+, and it's not even super close. That's pretty misleading. People naturally become more conservative as they get older. The "old" people that are now supporting Trump were all peace, drugs and free love in the 70s. There's no reason to believe current generations won't become more conservative in their thinking as time goes on.
I highly doubt many Trump supporters were hippies in the 70s, and I think you're fooling yourself if you think all generations function the same politically. Sanders wouldn't have scored like this with young people in the 1970s or in the 1990s, the growth of progressivism is quite new. And given that a lot of these young people believe their positions stem from being a lot more informed than the older generations (for the purpose of this discussion, I don't need to analyze whether it's true or not, which is why I just wrote "perceive" here), due to internet being their source as opposed to traditional media, I see no reason to think they'll change their mind as a group any time soon.
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Sup guys. I've been lurking for, like, a few hundred pages and wanted to contribute but didn't want my [1k] post to be a shitty political post in the US Politics Mega-thread...
So instead it's a shitty political post in the Blogs section – I'm curious what some of you guys think of it. Some of you (xDaunt in particular) seem to think that Hillary trying to tie Donald Trump to the alt-right is a losing strategy, when it seems to me one of the more solid lines of attack (for reasons elaborated in the blog).
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On September 21 2016 12:07 xDaunt wrote:
Y'all are too hyperbolic. Hitler himself could win the presidency and he still wouldn't be able to get much shit done. Have more faith in the institutions.
Like Congress?
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EPT
