In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!
NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
On September 19 2016 22:07 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Bomb goes off in NY. Another goes off in NJ. Thankfully nobody is killed. Clinton is losing millennial support.
To be fair, getting that age group to vote Has been like calling cats for decades. Obama had the SeCret Power to do so, but some could argue that it was using the same tactics some of us mocked Sanders for.
The bombs are troubling, but Drumpf is mostly gloating about them. Which is not a Great look at all. If goes into Another anti Muslim immigration spree, I don’t think it will heLp him much.
That is not a good sign in my book considering that I have about the same Chance to be killed by Lightning as Islamic terrorism. But we are now heading towards the talked over discussion of “Muslims, can they live among us in peace?”
Yes and no.
It depends on How much of their book do they follow.
And you can't rule out people's NaTuRal instinct of survival.
If one group of people have statistically higher Chance of causing harm toward others, then you can't blame others for expressing their distrust toward that group of people since we do live in a western society where Freedom of expression is allowed.
Again with the book shit, the cluelessness is real, its also why you will never solve this problem.
Statistically speaking American Muslims have a lower Chance of causing harm to the average american than cops and whacko White dudes.
Cops have plenty of distrust granted, but no one seems to have a problem with White dudes.
There won't be any problems as long as the border Control have a strict set of standard to abide by.
What is your idea of a strict standard?
They have to be capable of two marketable skills that does not include harming any other people or have any previous criminal records.
The marketable skills may not be like a Great artists or a Great technician but they do need to be at a decent level.
Something to demonstrate those skills like a piece of software, an artpiece, blueprint, projects done, etc.
Their immediate family members can enter too assuming that they do not have any previous criminal records.
Have to agree on the constitution.
Probably will ask them what type of Muslism are they.
Are they interested in becoming a citizen?
If no, they need to get out as soon as their country of origin is deemed safe.
If yes, then the government need to figure out a Way to put them in a reasonable environment.
On September 20 2016 00:25 Doodsmack wrote: Trump explicitly blaming the bombings on immigration this morning lol. The tribe mentality is strong in this one.
He has no connection with facts or the truth and he is running on an anti-immigration campaign. Was there ever any doubt he would blame it on immigration?
It was a couple of Irish guys right?
That aside,
Trump simply understand the average voter and appeals to them in a moral ground first and foremost,, exactly like the left has done since forever. You will all be surprised at the debates when you realize the media cartoon of him as a dumb person is not true at all.
the media cartoon is of him being repeatedly provably factually wrong; which is true. intentional lying could of course account for it; if we choose to believe it is malice rather than ignorance.
On September 19 2016 22:07 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Bomb goes off in NY. Another goes off in NJ. Thankfully nobody is killed. Clinton is losing millennial support.
To be fair, getting that age group to vote Has been like calling cats for decades. Obama had the SeCret Power to do so, but some could argue that it was using the same tactics some of us mocked Sanders for.
The bombs are troubling, but Drumpf is mostly gloating about them. Which is not a Great look at all. If goes into Another anti Muslim immigration spree, I don’t think it will heLp him much.
That is not a good sign in my book considering that I have about the same Chance to be killed by Lightning as Islamic terrorism. But we are now heading towards the talked over discussion of “Muslims, can they live among us in peace?”
Yes and no.
It depends on How much of their book do they follow.
And you can't rule out people's NaTuRal instinct of survival.
If one group of people have statistically higher Chance of causing harm toward others, then you can't blame others for expressing their distrust toward that group of people since we do live in a western society where Freedom of expression is allowed.
Again with the book shit, the cluelessness is real, its also why you will never solve this problem.
Statistically speaking American Muslims have a lower Chance of causing harm to the average american than cops and whacko White dudes.
Cops have plenty of distrust granted, but no one seems to have a problem with White dudes.
There won't be any problems as long as the border Control have a strict set of standard to abide by.
What is your idea of a strict standard?
They have to be capable of two marketable skills that does not include harming any other people or have any previous criminal records.
The marketable skills may not be like a Great artists or a Great technician but they do need to be at a decent level.
Something to demonstrate those skills like a piece of software, an artpiece, blueprint, projects done, etc.
Their immediate family members can enter too assuming that they do not have any previous criminal records.
Have to agree on the constitution.
Probably will ask them what type of Muslism are they.
Are they interested in becoming a citizen?
If no, they need to get out as soon as their country of origin is deemed safe.
If yes, then the government need to figure out a Way to put them in a reasonable environment.
Its not hard to make them fill up a form or two.
you do realize there's a very extensive vetting process for getting into the US, right?
On September 19 2016 22:07 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Bomb goes off in NY. Another goes off in NJ. Thankfully nobody is killed. Clinton is losing millennial support.
To be fair, getting that age group to vote Has been like calling cats for decades. Obama had the SeCret Power to do so, but some could argue that it was using the same tactics some of us mocked Sanders for.
The bombs are troubling, but Drumpf is mostly gloating about them. Which is not a Great look at all. If goes into Another anti Muslim immigration spree, I don’t think it will heLp him much.
That is not a good sign in my book considering that I have about the same Chance to be killed by Lightning as Islamic terrorism. But we are now heading towards the talked over discussion of “Muslims, can they live among us in peace?”
Yes and no.
It depends on How much of their book do they follow.
And you can't rule out people's NaTuRal instinct of survival.
If one group of people have statistically higher Chance of causing harm toward others, then you can't blame others for expressing their distrust toward that group of people since we do live in a western society where Freedom of expression is allowed.
Again with the book shit, the cluelessness is real, its also why you will never solve this problem.
Statistically speaking American Muslims have a lower Chance of causing harm to the average american than cops and whacko White dudes.
Cops have plenty of distrust granted, but no one seems to have a problem with White dudes.
There won't be any problems as long as the border Control have a strict set of standard to abide by.
What is your idea of a strict standard?
They have to be capable of two marketable skills that does not include harming any other people or have any previous criminal records.
The marketable skills may not be like a Great artists or a Great technician but they do need to be at a decent level.
Something to demonstrate those skills like a piece of software, an artpiece, blueprint, projects done, etc.
Their immediate family members can enter too assuming that they do not have any previous criminal records.
Have to agree on the constitution.
Probably will ask them what type of Muslism are they.
Are they interested in becoming a citizen?
If no, they need to get out as soon as their country of origin is deemed safe.
If yes, then the government need to figure out a Way to put them in a reasonable environment.
Its not hard to make them fill up a form or two.
you do realize there's a very extensive vetting process for getting into the US, right?
I was about to say, that looks very similar to the US vetting process. We don't just let anyone in.
On September 20 2016 00:56 Plansix wrote: Just to be clear, if I show that blacks are more likely to commit violent crimes, you think its fine that I advocate that no blacks should be allowed to move into my community or have their kids attend my children’s school? For safety concerns, of course. We just want to be safe.
I understand the argument you're making Plansix, but my guess would be that there's a pretty large overlap between people who are fine with this that are also fine with a Muslim ban. You're not going to change anyone's mind this way.
I don’t really expect to change anyone’s mind. I just want some honesty about this line of thinking: judging individual people based on the actions of other members of their demographic, sometimes from other nations. If people want to believe that and that they cannot live beside Muslims or blacks because they are scary, dangerous people, they are entitled to that opinion. I do not share it and have expressed as much. But I’m not going to call them names because they hold that view.
We can't let them politically Correct people take our honesty away man.
Honesty is all we have in a free society.
Pretty sure we have a lot more than that. And people are mostly all about honesty until it is directed at them, then they get upset and they are being oppressed for their views.
I don't think EVERYBODY is like that.
Yes, a percentage of people are like that but there are exists a lot of people that can take criticism and improve upon themselves based on the criticism.
Those people usually climbs higher than those people that can't take criticism.
On September 19 2016 22:07 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Bomb goes off in NY. Another goes off in NJ. Thankfully nobody is killed. Clinton is losing millennial support.
To be fair, getting that age group to vote Has been like calling cats for decades. Obama had the SeCret Power to do so, but some could argue that it was using the same tactics some of us mocked Sanders for.
The bombs are troubling, but Drumpf is mostly gloating about them. Which is not a Great look at all. If goes into Another anti Muslim immigration spree, I don’t think it will heLp him much.
That is not a good sign in my book considering that I have about the same Chance to be killed by Lightning as Islamic terrorism. But we are now heading towards the talked over discussion of “Muslims, can they live among us in peace?”
Yes and no.
It depends on How much of their book do they follow.
And you can't rule out people's NaTuRal instinct of survival.
If one group of people have statistically higher Chance of causing harm toward others, then you can't blame others for expressing their distrust toward that group of people since we do live in a western society where Freedom of expression is allowed.
Again with the book shit, the cluelessness is real, its also why you will never solve this problem.
Statistically speaking American Muslims have a lower Chance of causing harm to the average american than cops and whacko White dudes.
Cops have plenty of distrust granted, but no one seems to have a problem with White dudes.
There won't be any problems as long as the border Control have a strict set of standard to abide by.
What is your idea of a strict standard?
They have to be capable of two marketable skills that does not include harming any other people or have any previous criminal records.
The marketable skills may not be like a Great artists or a Great technician but they do need to be at a decent level.
Something to demonstrate those skills like a piece of software, an artpiece, blueprint, projects done, etc.
Their immediate family members can enter too assuming that they do not have any previous criminal records.
Have to agree on the constitution.
Probably will ask them what type of Muslism are they.
Are they interested in becoming a citizen?
If no, they need to get out as soon as their country of origin is deemed safe.
If yes, then the government need to figure out a Way to put them in a reasonable environment.
Its not hard to make them fill up a form or two.
you do realize there's a very extensive vetting process for getting into the US, right?
Hey he asked ME to express my "idea of a strict standard".
On September 19 2016 22:07 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Bomb goes off in NY. Another goes off in NJ. Thankfully nobody is killed. Clinton is losing millennial support.
To be fair, getting that age group to vote Has been like calling cats for decades. Obama had the SeCret Power to do so, but some could argue that it was using the same tactics some of us mocked Sanders for.
The bombs are troubling, but Drumpf is mostly gloating about them. Which is not a Great look at all. If goes into Another anti Muslim immigration spree, I don’t think it will heLp him much.
That is not a good sign in my book considering that I have about the same Chance to be killed by Lightning as Islamic terrorism. But we are now heading towards the talked over discussion of “Muslims, can they live among us in peace?”
Yes and no.
It depends on How much of their book do they follow.
And you can't rule out people's NaTuRal instinct of survival.
If one group of people have statistically higher Chance of causing harm toward others, then you can't blame others for expressing their distrust toward that group of people since we do live in a western society where Freedom of expression is allowed.
Again with the book shit, the cluelessness is real, its also why you will never solve this problem.
Statistically speaking American Muslims have a lower Chance of causing harm to the average american than cops and whacko White dudes.
Cops have plenty of distrust granted, but no one seems to have a problem with White dudes.
There won't be any problems as long as the border Control have a strict set of standard to abide by.
What is your idea of a strict standard?
They have to be capable of two marketable skills that does not include harming any other people or have any previous criminal records.
The marketable skills may not be like a Great artists or a Great technician but they do need to be at a decent level.
Something to demonstrate those skills like a piece of software, an artpiece, blueprint, projects done, etc.
Their immediate family members can enter too assuming that they do not have any previous criminal records.
Have to agree on the constitution.
Probably will ask them what type of Muslism are they.
Are they interested in becoming a citizen?
If no, they need to get out as soon as their country of origin is deemed safe.
If yes, then the government need to figure out a Way to put them in a reasonable environment.
Its not hard to make them fill up a form or two.
Is this for refugees and asylum seekers or just economic immigrants ? There is a marked different between the two. Because honestly your points are kinda all over the place.
For example If someone is immigrating, they are quite obviously interested in becoming a citizen. Thats kinda agiven, Im surprised the redundancy of the question did slap you in the face. Europeans being somewhat of an exception.
btw the current system is way more comprehensive than the top of your head thing that you just did. Heck just a visa app is like 20 forms. Immigration is a totally different beast.
Clearly you have no clue how hard it is to get into the US because what you are proposing is a joke compared to how hard it is to actually get in.
On September 20 2016 01:48 RealityIsKing wrote: there are exists a lot of people that can take criticism and improve upon themselves based on the criticism.
On September 19 2016 22:07 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Bomb goes off in NY. Another goes off in NJ. Thankfully nobody is killed. Clinton is losing millennial support.
To be fair, getting that age group to vote has been like calling cats for decades. Obama had the secret power to do so, but some could argue that it was using the same tactics some of us mocked Sanders for.
The bombs are troubling, but Trump is mostly gloating about them. Which is not a great look at all. If goes into another anti Muslim immigration spree, I don’t think it will help him much.
That is not a good sign in my book considering that I have about the same chance to be killed by lightning as Islamic terrorism. But we are now heading towards the talked over discussion of “Muslims, can they live among us in peace?”
Edit: I like how Trump links it to immigration, even though the guy is a US citizen, born here. This is the problem with Trump, that he connects events to things he believes are the cause. But in fact the cause is something else entirely and we are not focusing on addressing that problem. This guy was turned to terrorism somehow. They are recruited in some way And if we knew how, we could have stopped him earlier. But lets talk about refugees, because those are scary.
Can you imagine a world where Canadians would randomly autocombust in a huge ball of flame at about the same rate as "terror" attacks? And the only cause was Canadian citizenship. Would we see reluctance to be around Canadians? How much of it depends on intentionality? If the Canadians were seen as victims of "the Canadian affliction" would that reduce the fear levels?
While I'm going to become a US citizen for purposes of convenience I doubt I will ever feel a primary loyalty to the United States over my homeland, nor have any great reverence for the constitution. Would I be allowed to stay?
On September 19 2016 22:11 Plansix wrote: [quote] To be fair, getting that age group to vote Has been like calling cats for decades. Obama had the SeCret Power to do so, but some could argue that it was using the same tactics some of us mocked Sanders for.
The bombs are troubling, but Drumpf is mostly gloating about them. Which is not a Great look at all. If goes into Another anti Muslim immigration spree, I don’t think it will heLp him much.
That is not a good sign in my book considering that I have about the same Chance to be killed by Lightning as Islamic terrorism. But we are now heading towards the talked over discussion of “Muslims, can they live among us in peace?”
Yes and no.
It depends on How much of their book do they follow.
And you can't rule out people's NaTuRal instinct of survival.
If one group of people have statistically higher Chance of causing harm toward others, then you can't blame others for expressing their distrust toward that group of people since we do live in a western society where Freedom of expression is allowed.
Again with the book shit, the cluelessness is real, its also why you will never solve this problem.
Statistically speaking American Muslims have a lower Chance of causing harm to the average american than cops and whacko White dudes.
Cops have plenty of distrust granted, but no one seems to have a problem with White dudes.
There won't be any problems as long as the border Control have a strict set of standard to abide by.
What is your idea of a strict standard?
They have to be capable of two marketable skills that does not include harming any other people or have any previous criminal records.
The marketable skills may not be like a Great artists or a Great technician but they do need to be at a decent level.
Something to demonstrate those skills like a piece of software, an artpiece, blueprint, projects done, etc.
Their immediate family members can enter too assuming that they do not have any previous criminal records.
Have to agree on the constitution.
Probably will ask them what type of Muslism are they.
Are they interested in becoming a citizen?
If no, they need to get out as soon as their country of origin is deemed safe.
If yes, then the government need to figure out a Way to put them in a reasonable environment.
Its not hard to make them fill up a form or two.
you do realize there's a very extensive vetting process for getting into the US, right?
Hey he asked ME to express my "idea of a strict standard".
Ok, and you do realize your "strict standard" is probably less strict than the process we have in place now?
On September 20 2016 01:52 KwarK wrote: While I'm going to become a US citizen for purposes of convenience I doubt I will ever feel a primary loyalty to the United States over my homeland, nor have any great reverence for the constitution. Would I be allowed to stay?
Dunno. As for me, I like this country and all, but I just happened to be born here. Hooray for birthright citizenship I guess.
On September 20 2016 01:52 KwarK wrote: While I'm going to become a US citizen for purposes of convenience I doubt I will ever feel a primary loyalty to the United States over my homeland, nor have any great reverence for the constitution. Would I be allowed to stay?
On September 20 2016 01:52 KwarK wrote: While I'm going to become a US citizen for purposes of convenience I doubt I will ever feel a primary loyalty to the United States over my homeland, nor have any great reverence for the constitution. Would I be allowed to stay?
If, when you have to choose between one or the other and you choose the other, then the society will have negative thoughts on you, yes.
On September 19 2016 22:07 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Bomb goes off in NY. Another goes off in NJ. Thankfully nobody is killed. Clinton is losing millennial support.
To be fair, getting that age group to vote has been like calling cats for decades. Obama had the secret power to do so, but some could argue that it was using the same tactics some of us mocked Sanders for.
The bombs are troubling, but Trump is mostly gloating about them. Which is not a great look at all. If goes into another anti Muslim immigration spree, I don’t think it will help him much.
That is not a good sign in my book considering that I have about the same chance to be killed by lightning as Islamic terrorism. But we are now heading towards the talked over discussion of “Muslims, can they live among us in peace?”
Edit: I like how Trump links it to immigration, even though the guy is a US citizen, born here. This is the problem with Trump, that he connects events to things he believes are the cause. But in fact the cause is something else entirely and we are not focusing on addressing that problem. This guy was turned to terrorism somehow. They are recruited in some way And if we knew how, we could have stopped him earlier. But lets talk about refugees, because those are scary.
Can you imagine a world where Canadians would randomly autocombust in a huge ball of flame at about the same rate as "terror" attacks? And the only cause was Canadian citizenship. Would we see reluctance to be around Canadians? How much of it depends on intentionality? If the Canadians were seen as victims of "the Canadian affliction" would that reduce the fear levels?
Sure. Canada is a country to the north, with a limited population, a single goverment, a love for saying they are sorry. Muslims are 1.5 billion people across the entire world. You limit the discussions down to people from one country and its a discussion worth having.
On September 20 2016 01:52 KwarK wrote: While I'm going to become a US citizen for purposes of convenience I doubt I will ever feel a primary loyalty to the United States over my homeland, nor have any great reverence for the constitution. Would I be allowed to stay?
Sure. I don't think you are any different from other immigrants. We don't need people to worship the constitution as some sacred document. Even the founding fathers knew it had flaws, which is why they build it a system to amend it.
On September 19 2016 22:07 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Bomb goes off in NY. Another goes off in NJ. Thankfully nobody is killed. Clinton is losing millennial support.
To be fair, getting that age group to vote has been like calling cats for decades. Obama had the secret power to do so, but some could argue that it was using the same tactics some of us mocked Sanders for.
The bombs are troubling, but Trump is mostly gloating about them. Which is not a great look at all. If goes into another anti Muslim immigration spree, I don’t think it will help him much.
That is not a good sign in my book considering that I have about the same chance to be killed by lightning as Islamic terrorism. But we are now heading towards the talked over discussion of “Muslims, can they live among us in peace?”
Edit: I like how Trump links it to immigration, even though the guy is a US citizen, born here. This is the problem with Trump, that he connects events to things he believes are the cause. But in fact the cause is something else entirely and we are not focusing on addressing that problem. This guy was turned to terrorism somehow. They are recruited in some way And if we knew how, we could have stopped him earlier. But lets talk about refugees, because those are scary.
Can you imagine a world where Canadians would randomly autocombust in a huge ball of flame at about the same rate as "terror" attacks? And the only cause was Canadian citizenship. Would we see reluctance to be around Canadians? How much of it depends on intentionality? If the Canadians were seen as victims of "the Canadian affliction" would that reduce the fear levels?
Sure. Canada is a country to the north, with a limited population, a single goverment, a love for saying they are sorry. Muslims are 1.5 billion people across the entire world. You limit the discussions down to people from one country and its a discussion worth having.
Wait what? What are you saying sure to?
Are you saying that it's ok to ban all Syrians but not to ban Muslims? What if we reimagined the autocombusting Canadian scenario and made it into autocombusting Jews?
On September 20 2016 01:52 KwarK wrote: While I'm going to become a US citizen for purposes of convenience I doubt I will ever feel a primary loyalty to the United States over my homeland, nor have any great reverence for the constitution. Would I be allowed to stay?
Sure. I don't think you are any different from other immigrants. We don't need people to worship the constitution as some sacred document. Even the founding fathers knew it had flaws, which is why they build it a system to amend it.
We can't outright disregard the constitution.
I think some of it can be changed but that process should be voted on, not decided by one particular group.
The vote should count only if more than 60% of the people have voted to change. Without 60%, it just shows that people really care about it that much to change it.
On September 19 2016 22:07 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: Bomb goes off in NY. Another goes off in NJ. Thankfully nobody is killed. Clinton is losing millennial support.
To be fair, getting that age group to vote has been like calling cats for decades. Obama had the secret power to do so, but some could argue that it was using the same tactics some of us mocked Sanders for.
The bombs are troubling, but Trump is mostly gloating about them. Which is not a great look at all. If goes into another anti Muslim immigration spree, I don’t think it will help him much.
That is not a good sign in my book considering that I have about the same chance to be killed by lightning as Islamic terrorism. But we are now heading towards the talked over discussion of “Muslims, can they live among us in peace?”
Edit: I like how Trump links it to immigration, even though the guy is a US citizen, born here. This is the problem with Trump, that he connects events to things he believes are the cause. But in fact the cause is something else entirely and we are not focusing on addressing that problem. This guy was turned to terrorism somehow. They are recruited in some way And if we knew how, we could have stopped him earlier. But lets talk about refugees, because those are scary.
Can you imagine a world where Canadians would randomly autocombust in a huge ball of flame at about the same rate as "terror" attacks? And the only cause was Canadian citizenship. Would we see reluctance to be around Canadians? How much of it depends on intentionality? If the Canadians were seen as victims of "the Canadian affliction" would that reduce the fear levels?
Sure. Canada is a country to the north, with a limited population, a single goverment, a love for saying they are sorry. Muslims are 1.5 billion people across the entire world. You limit the discussions down to people from one country and its a discussion worth having.
Wait what? What are you saying sure to?
Are you saying that it's ok to ban all Syrians but not to ban Muslims? What if we reimagined the autocombusting Canadian scenario and made it into autocombusting Jews?
I don't believe there is evidence that all Syrians an inherent danger and not refugees feeling a warzone, so a ban sounds excessive. Increased screening is in order. If there was overwhelming evidence that the vast majority of Syrians wanted to commit acts of violence against the US, a halt to immigration from that country might be in order.
EPT
