|
Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On September 07 2016 06:17 Plansix wrote:
What if you have white person open the account for you and then adopt the top secret plan of using a totally different branch to send the funds once the account is open?
I think this plan has enforcement flaws. And flaws with reality.
Then just threaten and then enact a tariff.
|
On September 07 2016 05:47 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2016 05:44 a_flayer wrote:On September 07 2016 05:11 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On September 07 2016 04:52 ticklishmusic wrote:On September 07 2016 04:44 biology]major wrote:On September 07 2016 03:35 Doodsmack wrote:
There are a lot of questions about policy in a long debate with 2 people. And you saying "well known and established" is pretty funny considering you would not be able to tell me what half of Trump's policies are. since you guys love posting hrc website here lets compare, hmm?the fact they're a similar format is kind of funny and makes all sorts of comparisons possible Yeah Trump has very few issues (no education or the environment, to start), as well as some glaringly silly remarks* and syntax. He also is caps lock happy, apparently... "Our Founding Fathers knew... the Right to Keep and Bear Arms protects all our other rights." Christ. It makes me think he even wrote some of these things (it at least uses his rhetoric... MAGA and "a tremendous program/ a tremendous job". *I especially love how his wall is all about "Day 1 we do this; Day 2 Mexico will respond like this; Day 3 we will counter with this" lol. And he's just going to casually cancel all visas of Mexicans in the United States. Okay... No, he has some very strong environment policies. He will basically revert all recent successes that made an effort to preserve the environment by removing regulations on coal and oil extraction and reducing the effort to move away from fossil fuels by no longer providing support to solar energy efforts. Agreed, but I wonder why he didn't post those policies (spun in such a way where it doesn't seem awful). His page on his ideas look like they were done by a few high schoolers for a class project.
I literally got those policies from the website that was linked. I think somewhere under economics. He spins them as job-creation policies.
|
On September 07 2016 06:11 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2016 06:11 Mohdoo wrote:
1. Immigrant gets job and bank account using fake SSN, one of the easiest things in the world to do
2. Immigrant sends checks by mail to family members.
Nothing described stops that. This is like the war on drugs or something. UPS and FedEx can no longer ship to Mexico.
This is all they can do to stop it. It's like people have no experience with illegal immigrants. This is like stopping abortion by eliminating cereal. Are people unaware of how easy it is to get a fake SSN? They have bank accounts, many even have mortgages. It truly is as easy as sending a check. Trump's plan does absolutely nothing.
|
On September 07 2016 06:19 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2016 06:11 Plansix wrote:On September 07 2016 06:11 Mohdoo wrote:
1. Immigrant gets job and bank account using fake SSN, one of the easiest things in the world to do
2. Immigrant sends checks by mail to family members.
Nothing described stops that. This is like the war on drugs or something. UPS and FedEx can no longer ship to Mexico. This is all they can do to stop it. It's like people have no experience with illegal immigrants. This is like stopping abortion by eliminating cereal. Are people unaware of how easy it is to get a fake SSN? They have bank accounts, many even have mortgages. It truly is as easy as sending a check. Trump's plan does absolutely nothing.
I think the most hilarious part is that he thinks it could happen in one day. 11 million illegals, many that are sending money overseas and he is going to stop all the money flowing to Mexico in a single day. And the entire population would be stumped or wouldn’t see this coming.
|
On September 07 2016 05:56 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2016 05:54 Plansix wrote:
The plan for the wall could be summed up with: “We have found a way to make Mexico pay for the wall with this one simple trick. Click to find out more.” <click> But first! (advertisement for casino) But second! (advertisement for steaks) But third! (advertisement for fake university) "Have we raised enough money yet to pay for our own wall? No?" But fourth! ...
I suppose you could say that the secret is behind... a paywall.
|
On September 07 2016 06:26 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2016 05:56 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On September 07 2016 05:54 Plansix wrote:
The plan for the wall could be summed up with: “We have found a way to make Mexico pay for the wall with this one simple trick. Click to find out more.” <click> But first! (advertisement for casino) But second! (advertisement for steaks) But third! (advertisement for fake university) "Have we raised enough money yet to pay for our own wall? No?" But fourth! ... I suppose you could say that the secret is behind... a paywall.
Shut it down, this politics thread is over. We have both bottomed out and peaked. We will rise no higher or sink no lower.
|
On September 07 2016 06:23 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2016 06:19 Mohdoo wrote:On September 07 2016 06:11 Plansix wrote:On September 07 2016 06:11 Mohdoo wrote:
1. Immigrant gets job and bank account using fake SSN, one of the easiest things in the world to do
2. Immigrant sends checks by mail to family members.
Nothing described stops that. This is like the war on drugs or something. UPS and FedEx can no longer ship to Mexico. This is all they can do to stop it. It's like people have no experience with illegal immigrants. This is like stopping abortion by eliminating cereal. Are people unaware of how easy it is to get a fake SSN? They have bank accounts, many even have mortgages. It truly is as easy as sending a check. Trump's plan does absolutely nothing. I think the most hilarious part is that he thinks it could happen in one day. 11 million illegals, many that are sending money overseas and he is going to stop all the money flowing to Mexico in a single day. And the entire population would be stumped or wouldn’t see this coming.
Never mind that there are many more problems with this idea... the least of which is that the wall would not cost 5 billion.
|
On September 07 2016 06:04 xDaunt wrote:That's actually a good, detailed plan for how to make Mexico pay for the wall. I like that it has contingencies. The only part that is suspect is this: Show nested quote +Also include in the proposed rule a requirement that no alien may wire money outside of the United States unless the alien first provides a document establishing his lawful presence in the United States. This isn't my area of expertise, but I'm not sure what authority that the US has to stop illegal aliens from sending their property out of the country. The illegal aliens clearly have some due process rights in this regard, and I'm not sure what the compelling state interest is going to be.
A plan so good that Trump himself unwittingly revealed the gaping hole in his 'leverage' over a month ago.
Speaking on Meet the Press, Mr Trump said he would consider imposing a tax of 15-35 per cent on US companies that had moved manufacturing to Mexico. Asked if such a policy would not contravene WTO rules, he replied: “It doesn’t matter. Then we’re going to renegotiate or we’re going to pull out. These trade deals are a disaster, the World Trade Organisation is a disaster.”
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d97b97ba-51d8-11e6-9664-e0bdc13c3bef.html
If you think the economic blackmail he describes in that plan has any chance of happening I have a unicorn to sell you.
On September 07 2016 06:19 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2016 06:17 Plansix wrote:
What if you have white person open the account for you and then adopt the top secret plan of using a totally different branch to send the funds once the account is open?
I think this plan has enforcement flaws. And flaws with reality. Then just threaten and then enact a tariff.
I have another unicorn, btw
|
On September 07 2016 06:26 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2016 05:56 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On September 07 2016 05:54 Plansix wrote:
The plan for the wall could be summed up with: “We have found a way to make Mexico pay for the wall with this one simple trick. Click to find out more.” <click> But first! (advertisement for casino) But second! (advertisement for steaks) But third! (advertisement for fake university) "Have we raised enough money yet to pay for our own wall? No?" But fourth! ... I suppose you could say that the secret is behind... a paywall.
You win 
|
On September 07 2016 06:47 Dan HH wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2016 06:04 xDaunt wrote:That's actually a good, detailed plan for how to make Mexico pay for the wall. I like that it has contingencies. The only part that is suspect is this: Also include in the proposed rule a requirement that no alien may wire money outside of the United States unless the alien first provides a document establishing his lawful presence in the United States. This isn't my area of expertise, but I'm not sure what authority that the US has to stop illegal aliens from sending their property out of the country. The illegal aliens clearly have some due process rights in this regard, and I'm not sure what the compelling state interest is going to be. A plan so good that Trump himself unwittingly revealed the gaping hole in his 'leverage' over a month ago. Show nested quote +Speaking on Meet the Press, Mr Trump said he would consider imposing a tax of 15-35 per cent on US companies that had moved manufacturing to Mexico. Asked if such a policy would not contravene WTO rules, he replied: “It doesn’t matter. Then we’re going to renegotiate or we’re going to pull out. These trade deals are a disaster, the World Trade Organisation is a disaster.” http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d97b97ba-51d8-11e6-9664-e0bdc13c3bef.htmlIf you think the economic blackmail he describes in that plan has any chance of happening I have a unicorn to sell you. Show nested quote +On September 07 2016 06:19 oBlade wrote:On September 07 2016 06:17 Plansix wrote:
What if you have white person open the account for you and then adopt the top secret plan of using a totally different branch to send the funds once the account is open?
I think this plan has enforcement flaws. And flaws with reality. Then just threaten and then enact a tariff. I have another unicorn, btw
Will this unicorn be a horse with a horn superglued to its head or will it just be a photoshop job? Or maybe string and a party hat?
Also, I can't tell if Greta Van Susteren leaving Fox is a sign of larger changeup to come or just a one off (apparently her contract let her leave if Ailes left).
|
Canada11583 Posts
On September 07 2016 05:35 oBlade wrote:
I thought it was impossible to deport 11 million people in 3 days.
This was one of the reasons I appreciated Biden's 08 run for president. So many nominees make these unrealistic Day 1 promises, but he kept saying the equivalent of 'look, you can't do this or that policy on the first day or even the first week... this will take months, this can't happen for half a year, etc.' His realist mindset was refreshing, whereas Trump is actually a pretty typical politician in promising the moon on the first day- maybe it's the dark side of the moon, but the moon nonetheless.
|
On September 07 2016 06:47 Dan HH wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2016 06:19 oBlade wrote:On September 07 2016 06:17 Plansix wrote:
What if you have white person open the account for you and then adopt the top secret plan of using a totally different branch to send the funds once the account is open?
I think this plan has enforcement flaws. And flaws with reality. Then just threaten and then enact a tariff. I have another unicorn, btw
Your only hope of ever having a point.
|
On September 07 2016 06:04 xDaunt wrote:
That's actually a good, detailed plan for how to make Mexico pay for the wall.
In the year 2016, xDaunt calls controlling Western Union wire transfers via the PATRIOT act in order to make the Mexican government pay for a border wall a good plan. Shark has been jumped.
|
It does open a significant amount of pressure on mexico. A lot of those transfers are technically illegal money being sent over nation lines. And it is probably does support a ton of families that would go hungry and homeless without it. Without that money for a week or even a month and you'll have riots in the streets. Imagine how bad the situation would go if say $2 billion in welfare stopped being paid out in america.
Its like seizing the steel industry during the Korean war. It doesn't matter that it won't stick it just matters how fast it'll be until someone can reverse it.
|
On September 07 2016 07:36 Sermokala wrote:
It does open a significant amount of pressure on mexico. A lot of those transfers are technically illegal money being sent over nation lines. And it is probably does support a ton of families that would go hungry and homeless without it. Without that money for a week or even a month and you'll have riots in the streets. Imagine how bad the situation would go if say $2 billion in welfare stopped being paid out in america.
Its like seizing the steel industry during the Korean war. It doesn't matter that it won't stick it just matters how fast it'll be until someone can reverse it.
None of this would happen because it is still very easy to just send a check or cash.
|
On September 07 2016 07:37 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2016 07:36 Sermokala wrote:
It does open a significant amount of pressure on mexico. A lot of those transfers are technically illegal money being sent over nation lines. And it is probably does support a ton of families that would go hungry and homeless without it. Without that money for a week or even a month and you'll have riots in the streets. Imagine how bad the situation would go if say $2 billion in welfare stopped being paid out in america.
Its like seizing the steel industry during the Korean war. It doesn't matter that it won't stick it just matters how fast it'll be until someone can reverse it. None of this would happen because it is still very easy to just send a check or cash.
Thats why I said 2 instead of the 28 quoted. Difficulty is going to cause some of the cash to not get there.
|
Keep in mind, the United States has already taken in 4X more migrants than any other country on planet earth, producing lower wages and higher unemployment for our own citizens and recent migrants.
An interestingly misleading figure. On the face of it, it is true. Indeed, perhaps an understatement. The US has 47 million people residing in it who were not born citizens. If our laws were more similar to Europe's on who counts as a citizen, that number increases by a few tens of millions (some estimates at 85 million).
But the US is a huge country. This gets missed a lot of the time, both by people from little countries marveling at the scale of US issues, and by people who overstate something good about the US because they don't understand how big it is. The US is bigger than the population of Germany, France, all of Iberia, the Low Countries, and the entire British Isles combined.
But our immigrant population is only 15% or so of our actual population. Yes, if you use European standards you get more like 25%, but even by that metric, there are quite a few countries with larger immigrant populations: UAE, Qatar, Kuqait, Singapore, Jordan, Hong Kong, Saudi Arabia, Oman, Switzerland, Israel, and Australia, plus tons of microstates.
|
On September 07 2016 07:00 Nevuk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2016 06:47 Dan HH wrote:On September 07 2016 06:04 xDaunt wrote:That's actually a good, detailed plan for how to make Mexico pay for the wall. I like that it has contingencies. The only part that is suspect is this: Also include in the proposed rule a requirement that no alien may wire money outside of the United States unless the alien first provides a document establishing his lawful presence in the United States. This isn't my area of expertise, but I'm not sure what authority that the US has to stop illegal aliens from sending their property out of the country. The illegal aliens clearly have some due process rights in this regard, and I'm not sure what the compelling state interest is going to be. A plan so good that Trump himself unwittingly revealed the gaping hole in his 'leverage' over a month ago. Speaking on Meet the Press, Mr Trump said he would consider imposing a tax of 15-35 per cent on US companies that had moved manufacturing to Mexico. Asked if such a policy would not contravene WTO rules, he replied: “It doesn’t matter. Then we’re going to renegotiate or we’re going to pull out. These trade deals are a disaster, the World Trade Organisation is a disaster.” http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/d97b97ba-51d8-11e6-9664-e0bdc13c3bef.htmlIf you think the economic blackmail he describes in that plan has any chance of happening I have a unicorn to sell you. On September 07 2016 06:19 oBlade wrote:On September 07 2016 06:17 Plansix wrote:
What if you have white person open the account for you and then adopt the top secret plan of using a totally different branch to send the funds once the account is open?
I think this plan has enforcement flaws. And flaws with reality. Then just threaten and then enact a tariff. I have another unicorn, btw Will this unicorn be a horse with a horn superglued to its head or will it just be a photoshop job? Or maybe string and a party hat?
It's the real deal, I have smart people, very smart people breeding unicorns, tremendous unicorns.
On September 07 2016 07:12 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2016 06:47 Dan HH wrote:On September 07 2016 06:19 oBlade wrote:On September 07 2016 06:17 Plansix wrote:
What if you have white person open the account for you and then adopt the top secret plan of using a totally different branch to send the funds once the account is open?
I think this plan has enforcement flaws. And flaws with reality. Then just threaten and then enact a tariff. I have another unicorn, btw Your only hope of ever having a point.
If you saw the part above that, the point couldn't be any more self-evident. You will not leave the WTO or break GATT to get into a pissing contest with Mexico, that nullifies the position of strenght which is the crux of Trump's argument. And within international accords, unilateral tariff hikes are self-defeating.
'Threaten and then enact a tariff' is not in the realm of possibility even if Trump were actually serious about that plan and this isn't just hyperbolic populism. The only realistic conclusion of such a unilateral action is a WTO ruling in favor of retaliatory compensation, as the US had to accept in the past for much smaller potatoes and at arguably a bigger cost than the losses provoked.
As for enforcing existing agreements such as anti-dumping rules, that has been done continuously by both the US and Mexico to eachother regardless of who was president. Trump would have to name specific instances in which Mexico has broken trade rules and the US hasn't taken action for this to have any merit in giving the US more leverage.
|
So it's a virtual tie right now, and there is supposed to be another email dump from assange. I recall saying a while back trump has no chance, I take it back. He might have the popular vote easy, but the electoral college will probably stick it to him in the end.
|
On September 07 2016 09:44 biology]major wrote:
So it's a virtual tie right now, and there is supposed to be another email dump from assange. I recall saying a while back trump has no chance, I take it back. He might have the popular vote easy, but the electoral college will probably stick it to him in the end.
People keep repeating this bullshit without understanding the distribution of voters across the US. Trump is the one more likely to win the electoral college but lose the popular vote (as GWB did only 16 years ago). Check the 538 forecast, for example. The reason is blue states are bluer than red states are red - think NY, CA, IL - and Trump's path to victory is scraping by in a few swing states (VA, FL) and barely flipping others (PA. WI). It's some kind of meme of people trying to elaborate the "rigged system" soundbyte.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
