|
Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On September 07 2016 05:11 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2016 04:52 ticklishmusic wrote:On September 07 2016 04:44 biology]major wrote:On September 07 2016 03:35 Doodsmack wrote:
There are a lot of questions about policy in a long debate with 2 people. And you saying "well known and established" is pretty funny considering you would not be able to tell me what half of Trump's policies are. since you guys love posting hrc website here lets compare, hmm?the fact they're a similar format is kind of funny and makes all sorts of comparisons possible Yeah Trump has very few issues (no education or the environment, to start), as well as some glaringly silly remarks* and syntax. He also is caps lock happy, apparently... "Our Founding Fathers knew... the Right to Keep and Bear Arms protects all our other rights." Christ. It makes me think he even wrote some of these things (it at least uses his rhetoric... MAGA and "a tremendous program/ a tremendous job". *I especially love how his wall is all about "Day 1 we do this; Day 2 Mexico will respond like this; Day 3 we will counter with this" lol. And he's just going to casually cancel all visas of Mexicans in the United States. Okay...
That last part is my favorite. He is going to punish the people who did exactly what they are supposed to do and what he wants to promote, people getting a visa and coming here legally.
That is the best part: Legal or illegal, if you are from Mexico and not a citizen, Trump plans to fuck you over on the third day in office. Because he loves Mexicans.
|
Don't forget that Trump wants to deport a lot of the people who are sending back remittances. It's probably hard to intercept their Western Union transfers when they're being deported and not working anymore.
|
I thought it was impossible to deport 11 million people in 3 days.
|
On September 07 2016 05:35 oBlade wrote:
I thought it was impossible to deport 11 million people in 3 days.
It is but I doubt trump knows that.
|
|
|
On September 07 2016 05:23 Doodsmack wrote:Show nested quote +
Compelling Mexico to Pay for the Wall
Introduction: The provision of the Patriot Act, Section 326 - the "know your customer" provision, compelling financial institutions to demand identity documents before opening accounts or conducting financial transactions is a fundamental element of the outline below. That section authorized the executive branch to issue detailed regulations on the subject, found at 31 CFR 130.120-121. It's an easy decision for Mexico: make a one-time payment of $5-10 billion to ensure that $24 billion continues to flow into their country year after year. There are several ways to compel Mexico to pay for the wall including the following:
On day 1 promulgate a "proposed rule" (regulation) amending 31 CFR 130.121 to redefine applicable financial institutions to include money transfer companies like Western Union, and redefine "account" to include wire transfers. Also include in the proposed rule a requirement that no alien may wire money outside of the United States unless the alien first provides a document establishing his lawful presence in the United States.
On day 2 Mexico will immediately protest. They receive approximately $24 billion a year in remittances from Mexican nationals working in the United States. The majority of that amount comes from illegal aliens. It serves as de facto welfare for poor families in Mexico. There is no significant social safety net provided by the state in Mexico.
On day 3 tell Mexico that if the Mexican government will contribute the funds needed to the United States to pay for the wall, the Trump Administration will not promulgate the final rule, and the regulation will not go into effect.
Trade tariffs, or enforcement of existing trade rules: There is no doubt that Mexico is engaging in unfair subsidy behavior that has eliminated thousands of U.S. jobs, and which we are obligated to respond to; the impact of any tariffs on the price imports will be more than offset by the economic and income gains of increased production in the United States, in addition to revenue from any tariffs themselves. Mexico needs access to our markets much more than the reverse, so we have all the leverage and will win the negotiation. By definition, if you have a large trade deficit with a nation, it means they are selling far more to you than the reverse - thus they, not you, stand to lose from enforcing trade rules through tariffs (as has been done to save many U.S. industries in the past).
Cancelling visas: Immigration is a privilege, not a right. Mexico is totally dependent on the United States as a release valve for its own poverty - our approvals of hundreds of thousands of visas to their nationals every year is one of our greatest leverage points. We also have leverage through business and tourist visas for important people in the Mexican economy. Keep in mind, the United States has already taken in 4X more migrants than any other country on planet earth, producing lower wages and higher unemployment for our own citizens and recent migrants.
Visa fees: Even a small increase in visa fees would pay for the wall. This includes fees on border crossing cards, of which more than 1 million are issued a year. The border-crossing card is also one of the greatest sources of illegal immigration into the United States, via overstays. Mexico is also the single largest recipient of U.S. green cards, which confer a path to U.S. citizenship. Again, we have the leverage so Mexico will back down.
Conclusion: Mexico has taken advantage of us in another way as well: gangs, drug traffickers and cartels have freely exploited our open borders and committed vast numbers of crimes inside the United States. The United States has borne the extraordinary daily cost of this criminal activity, including the cost of trials and incarcerations. Not to mention the even greater human cost. We have the moral high ground here, and all the leverage. It is time we use it in order to Make America Great Again.
Let's just throw this up again to absorb the full absurdity of the "policy" proposals of Donald Trump.
Gosh what's so absurd? Surely you don't think it'll take four days for Mexico to cave?
|
On September 07 2016 05:37 hunts wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2016 05:35 oBlade wrote:
I thought it was impossible to deport 11 million people in 3 days. It is but I doubt trump knows that.
He definitely knows that plan won't ever happen, he's not as much of an idiot as his hyperbole flavored policies might make it seem
|
On September 07 2016 05:11 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2016 04:52 ticklishmusic wrote:On September 07 2016 04:44 biology]major wrote:On September 07 2016 03:35 Doodsmack wrote:
There are a lot of questions about policy in a long debate with 2 people. And you saying "well known and established" is pretty funny considering you would not be able to tell me what half of Trump's policies are. since you guys love posting hrc website here lets compare, hmm?the fact they're a similar format is kind of funny and makes all sorts of comparisons possible Yeah Trump has very few issues (no education or the environment, to start), as well as some glaringly silly remarks* and syntax. He also is caps lock happy, apparently... "Our Founding Fathers knew... the Right to Keep and Bear Arms protects all our other rights." Christ. It makes me think he even wrote some of these things (it at least uses his rhetoric... MAGA and "a tremendous program/ a tremendous job". *I especially love how his wall is all about "Day 1 we do this; Day 2 Mexico will respond like this; Day 3 we will counter with this" lol. And he's just going to casually cancel all visas of Mexicans in the United States. Okay...
No, he has some very strong environment policies. He will basically revert all recent successes that made an effort to preserve the environment by removing regulations on coal and oil extraction and reducing the effort to move away from fossil fuels by no longer providing support to solar energy efforts.
|
On September 07 2016 05:35 oBlade wrote:
I thought it was impossible to deport 11 million people in 3 days.
Nothing is impossible for Trump, which is why He will rest on the seventh day.
|
On September 07 2016 05:43 Dan HH wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2016 05:37 hunts wrote:On September 07 2016 05:35 oBlade wrote:
I thought it was impossible to deport 11 million people in 3 days. It is but I doubt trump knows that. He definitely knows that plan won't ever happen, he's not as much of an idiot as his hyperbole flavored policies might make it seem
I am not convinced that Trump isn’t drinking his own koolaid. He might truly thing that Mexico will cave under the pressure or that when a “real business man” arrives in the White House, he will magically be able to stop Western Union from transferring money to Mexico overnight.
|
On September 07 2016 05:44 a_flayer wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2016 05:11 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On September 07 2016 04:52 ticklishmusic wrote:On September 07 2016 04:44 biology]major wrote:On September 07 2016 03:35 Doodsmack wrote:
There are a lot of questions about policy in a long debate with 2 people. And you saying "well known and established" is pretty funny considering you would not be able to tell me what half of Trump's policies are. since you guys love posting hrc website here lets compare, hmm?the fact they're a similar format is kind of funny and makes all sorts of comparisons possible Yeah Trump has very few issues (no education or the environment, to start), as well as some glaringly silly remarks* and syntax. He also is caps lock happy, apparently... "Our Founding Fathers knew... the Right to Keep and Bear Arms protects all our other rights." Christ. It makes me think he even wrote some of these things (it at least uses his rhetoric... MAGA and "a tremendous program/ a tremendous job". *I especially love how his wall is all about "Day 1 we do this; Day 2 Mexico will respond like this; Day 3 we will counter with this" lol. And he's just going to casually cancel all visas of Mexicans in the United States. Okay... No, he has some very strong environment policies. He will basically revert all recent successes that made an effort to preserve the environment by removing regulations on coal and oil extraction and reducing the effort to move away from fossil fuels by no longer providing support to solar energy efforts.
Agreed, but I wonder why he didn't post those policies (spun in such a way where it doesn't seem awful). His page on his ideas look like they were done by a few high schoolers for a class project.
|
Interesting thing about Trump's Mexico plan is how he basically just makes sure to make it look like a presidential plan. It's on his website, it has numbers, and it is long. Most people are just going to assume it is aggressive and arrogant, but doable. People will just assume that someone who managed to win the GOP primary does have some shred of credibility and that in the end, they will do something that is somewhat reasonable.
And yet, this plan is just downright silly. It's not realistic, viable, anything. It is truly just a bunch of shit. But it still covers Trump's base of not having a plan or something. Here, he's got a "plan". It'll work for the average person.
|
The plan for the wall could be summed up with: “We have found a way to make Mexico pay for the wall with this one simple trick. Click to find out more.”
|
On September 07 2016 05:25 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2016 05:11 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On September 07 2016 04:52 ticklishmusic wrote:On September 07 2016 04:44 biology]major wrote:On September 07 2016 03:35 Doodsmack wrote:
There are a lot of questions about policy in a long debate with 2 people. And you saying "well known and established" is pretty funny considering you would not be able to tell me what half of Trump's policies are. since you guys love posting hrc website here lets compare, hmm?the fact they're a similar format is kind of funny and makes all sorts of comparisons possible Yeah Trump has very few issues (no education or the environment, to start), as well as some glaringly silly remarks* and syntax. He also is caps lock happy, apparently... "Our Founding Fathers knew... the Right to Keep and Bear Arms protects all our other rights." Christ. It makes me think he even wrote some of these things (it at least uses his rhetoric... MAGA and "a tremendous program/ a tremendous job". *I especially love how his wall is all about "Day 1 we do this; Day 2 Mexico will respond like this; Day 3 we will counter with this" lol. And he's just going to casually cancel all visas of Mexicans in the United States. Okay... That last part is my favorite. He is going to punish the people who did exactly what they are supposed to do and what he wants to promote, people getting a visa and coming here legally. That is the best part: Legal or illegal, if you are from Mexico and not a citizen, Trump plans to fuck you over on the third day in office. Because he loves Mexicans.
Agreed. The majority of immigrants who are law-abiding and good people are getting screwed because of a few bad immigrants who aren't, and Trump is fine with that.
On the other hand, replace those two "immigrants" with "gun owners", and Trump's philosophy suddenly does a 180... even though there is an overlap between those two groups of people. Sigh.
|
On September 07 2016 05:54 Plansix wrote:
The plan for the wall could be summed up with: “We have found a way to make Mexico pay for the wall with this one simple trick. Click to find out more.”
<click>
But first! (advertisement for casino)
But second! (advertisement for steaks)
But third! (advertisement for fake university)
"Have we raised enough money yet to pay for our own wall? No?"
But fourth! ...
|
That's actually a good, detailed plan for how to make Mexico pay for the wall. I like that it has contingencies. The only part that is suspect is this:
Also include in the proposed rule a requirement that no alien may wire money outside of the United States unless the alien first provides a document establishing his lawful presence in the United States.
This isn't my area of expertise, but I'm not sure what authority that the US has to stop illegal aliens from sending their property out of the country. The illegal aliens clearly have some due process rights in this regard, and I'm not sure what the compelling state interest is going to be.
|
1. Immigrant gets job and bank account using fake SSN, one of the easiest things in the world to do
2. Immigrant sends checks by mail to family members.
Nothing described stops that. This is like the war on drugs or something.
|
I’m not really sure how that would work at all:
A: most transfers of funds to Mexico are not illegal immigrant wages. How do you know which ones are which?
B: The plan assumes that illegal immigrants won’t just start using non-legal means to transfer funds.
C: What stops a small industry of “holding companies” that just hold the funds for a couple days cropping up in all the “not Mexico” countries?
It sounds like planning to build the new police station from the money to plan to capture from all the drug busts in the next year. The whole system hinges on people not doing illegal things and just hanging on to the money.
On September 07 2016 06:11 Mohdoo wrote:
1. Immigrant gets job and bank account using fake SSN, one of the easiest things in the world to do
2. Immigrant sends checks by mail to family members.
Nothing described stops that. This is like the war on drugs or something.
UPS and FedEx can no longer ship to Mexico.
|
" ... “It should not be for the banking system to be the police or the immigration task force,” said one banking lobbyist. “I don’t think it should be left to banks to report that someone has come in to remit money to whatever country, and it may or may not be legal. That’s not our role." ...
Banks contend that they do not have a method of establishing the legal status of a person in the U.S. A person can open an account or send money abroad simply by showing an Individual Taxpayer Identification Number, which is given out by the government to people lacking a Social Security number, including people who are in the U.S. illegally.
The banking lobbyist said Trump’s proposal is not yet being taken seriously by the industry because it is still several steps away from even beginning to look like a reality."
http://thehill.com/policy/finance/294357-us-banks-wary-of-being-trumps-immigration-enforcer
|
What if you have white person open the account for you and then adopt the top secret plan of using a totally different branch to send the funds once the account is open?
I think this plan has enforcement flaws. And flaws with reality.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
