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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18854 Posts
July 05 2016 15:50 GMT
#83121
The voters who would find a characterization like that compelling are already not voting for Hillary
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
ticklishmusic
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States15977 Posts
July 05 2016 15:52 GMT
#83122
"hillary was careless" says guy who put a nazi meme on his twitter

lest we forget, remember all the bush administration emails?
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-05 15:54:44
July 05 2016 15:53 GMT
#83123
I don't think Hillary is going to lose in November because the Republican campaign failed to put forward a candidate that the independent voters would find palatable. The real question is, how damaged a candidate will she be upon taking office in January? And the answer is, very damaged. Note that, as of yet, the best argument Hillary has been able to put forward for herself is that everyone else is even worse. There's little reason to vote for her because she's a good candidate or that she will make things better.

It'd be easy to win the midterms and to deny her a second term if the Republican party can get its shit together sometime in the near future.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
July 05 2016 15:55 GMT
#83124
On July 06 2016 00:50 farvacola wrote:
The voters who would find a characterization like that compelling are already not voting for Hillary

I haven’t looked in a while, but the public opinion of the email and other investigations by congress have been super low almost all year. It’s like the GOP doesn’t understand that just harping on one thing for years at a time isn’t compelling to the general election voters. They just tune it out after a while, especially if its super boring like “Did not comply with best practices for securing classified emails.”
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15737 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-07-05 16:13:19
July 05 2016 16:05 GMT
#83125
On July 06 2016 00:55 Plansix wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 06 2016 00:50 farvacola wrote:
The voters who would find a characterization like that compelling are already not voting for Hillary

I haven’t looked in a while, but the public opinion of the email and other investigations by congress have been super low almost all year. It’s like the GOP doesn’t understand that just harping on one thing for years at a time isn’t compelling to the general election voters. They just tune it out after a while, especially if its super boring like “Did not comply with best practices for securing classified emails.”


And the election is 4 months away. I think Clinton's polling will be at its worst at the end of this month. So long as she stays in the green by the end of this month, Trump will have zero momentum. His fundraising is already in shambles, so this decision by the FBI was really his only shot at getting momentum. Donors would have rallied behind him if Clinton was being charged, but as it stands, Clinton now has the worst of this campaign behind her. She's been winning, despite a pending FBI investigation. That's some serious perseverance. It's all easier from here on out.

Also worth mentioning that Comey is 6 ft 8, 203 cm. What a beeeassttt
Seuss
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States10536 Posts
July 05 2016 16:10 GMT
#83126
The only way Clinton will lose is if democrats get complacent, which is a thing that could totally happen.
"I am not able to carry all this people alone, for they are too heavy for me." -Moses (Numbers 11:14)
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15737 Posts
July 05 2016 16:15 GMT
#83127
On July 06 2016 01:10 Seuss wrote:
The only way Clinton will lose is if democrats get complacent, which is a thing that could totally happen.


Obama and Bernie will be enough to prevent this. Bernie won't likely be terribly active, but he'll throw enough shit out there to get decent turnout. I think Obama will be campaigning heavily. If nothing else, the Bernie machine is good at getting people to vote.
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22105 Posts
July 05 2016 16:18 GMT
#83128
On July 06 2016 01:15 Mohdoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 06 2016 01:10 Seuss wrote:
The only way Clinton will lose is if democrats get complacent, which is a thing that could totally happen.


Obama and Bernie will be enough to prevent this. Bernie won't likely be terribly active, but he'll throw enough shit out there to get decent turnout. I think Obama will be campaigning heavily. If nothing else, the Bernie machine is good at getting people to vote.

Honestly I doubt Bernie will do much. He has shown no indication of actively supporting Clinton.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15737 Posts
July 05 2016 16:26 GMT
#83129
On July 06 2016 01:18 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 06 2016 01:15 Mohdoo wrote:
On July 06 2016 01:10 Seuss wrote:
The only way Clinton will lose is if democrats get complacent, which is a thing that could totally happen.


Obama and Bernie will be enough to prevent this. Bernie won't likely be terribly active, but he'll throw enough shit out there to get decent turnout. I think Obama will be campaigning heavily. If nothing else, the Bernie machine is good at getting people to vote.

Honestly I doubt Bernie will do much. He has shown no indication of actively supporting Clinton.


I think he is prepared to do absolutely nothing if he gets absolutely nothing he wants. I think he's trying to play hardball and may actually be able to swing for some more influence after the attention this FBI stuff is gaining. Bernie is well poised to help the DNC by grabbing headlines to have finally endorsed Clinton. He can use this as a bargaining tool for getting more out of the DNC. I think the DNC needs him more now than they will later, so I hope Bernie cashes in now, or soon.
Slaughter
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States20254 Posts
July 05 2016 16:32 GMT
#83130
On July 06 2016 01:15 Mohdoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 06 2016 01:10 Seuss wrote:
The only way Clinton will lose is if democrats get complacent, which is a thing that could totally happen.


Obama and Bernie will be enough to prevent this. Bernie won't likely be terribly active, but he'll throw enough shit out there to get decent turnout. I think Obama will be campaigning heavily. If nothing else, the Bernie machine is good at getting people to vote.


? I don't think he is that good at getting people to vote. Maybe slightly above average at getting the younger demo but even then he couldn't garner enough to not get thumped by Clinton in a fairly large manner.
Never Knows Best.
Rebs
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Pakistan10726 Posts
July 05 2016 16:34 GMT
#83131
On July 06 2016 01:26 Mohdoo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 06 2016 01:18 Gorsameth wrote:
On July 06 2016 01:15 Mohdoo wrote:
On July 06 2016 01:10 Seuss wrote:
The only way Clinton will lose is if democrats get complacent, which is a thing that could totally happen.


Obama and Bernie will be enough to prevent this. Bernie won't likely be terribly active, but he'll throw enough shit out there to get decent turnout. I think Obama will be campaigning heavily. If nothing else, the Bernie machine is good at getting people to vote.

Honestly I doubt Bernie will do much. He has shown no indication of actively supporting Clinton.


I think he is prepared to do absolutely nothing if he gets absolutely nothing he wants. I think he's trying to play hardball and may actually be able to swing for some more influence after the attention this FBI stuff is gaining. Bernie is well poised to help the DNC by grabbing headlines to have finally endorsed Clinton. He can use this as a bargaining tool for getting more out of the DNC. I think the DNC needs him more now than they will later, so I hope Bernie cashes in now, or soon.


And honestly if he makes common sense compromises to things he wants that would be a big achievement. Im not talking half measures but solid reform but practical that the Dems can push behind. Its not backtracking to compromise and get improvements. Thats literally the Republican way of thinking and its really annoying that those parallels dont hit him in the face sometimes.
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15737 Posts
July 05 2016 16:42 GMT
#83132
On July 06 2016 01:34 Rebs wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 06 2016 01:26 Mohdoo wrote:
On July 06 2016 01:18 Gorsameth wrote:
On July 06 2016 01:15 Mohdoo wrote:
On July 06 2016 01:10 Seuss wrote:
The only way Clinton will lose is if democrats get complacent, which is a thing that could totally happen.


Obama and Bernie will be enough to prevent this. Bernie won't likely be terribly active, but he'll throw enough shit out there to get decent turnout. I think Obama will be campaigning heavily. If nothing else, the Bernie machine is good at getting people to vote.

Honestly I doubt Bernie will do much. He has shown no indication of actively supporting Clinton.


I think he is prepared to do absolutely nothing if he gets absolutely nothing he wants. I think he's trying to play hardball and may actually be able to swing for some more influence after the attention this FBI stuff is gaining. Bernie is well poised to help the DNC by grabbing headlines to have finally endorsed Clinton. He can use this as a bargaining tool for getting more out of the DNC. I think the DNC needs him more now than they will later, so I hope Bernie cashes in now, or soon.


And honestly if he makes common sense compromises to things he wants that would be a big achievement. Im not talking half measures but solid reform but practical that the Dems can push behind. Its not backtracking to compromise and get improvements. Thats literally the Republican way of thinking and its really annoying that those parallels dont hit him in the face sometimes.


There are certainly a lot of parallels seen between Bernie's behavior and the thought process behind the government shutdown. I have seen it noted as a reason (some) Bernie supporters are disappointed with him. It's good to have conviction, but you can't just pout. You still gotta actually do something.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
July 05 2016 16:49 GMT
#83133
*golfclap*

In the nearly eight years since the first Littoral Combat Ship was delivered to the Navy, it hasn’t won many ardent fans beyond the Navy, its home-state lawmakers or the employees of the two shipbuilders producing dueling models. The ships’ maiden voyages have been marked by cracked hulls, engine failures, unexpected rusting, software snafus, weapons glitches and persistent criticism of how vulnerable they are to an attack.

“The ship is not reliable,” the Pentagon’s operational test and evaluation director said in a report released in January, only the most recent such judgment it has made. During 113 days of testing on one ship last year, some of the engines and water jets responsible for propelling the ship forward were out of commission for 45 days.

Defense Secretary Ash Carter expressed his concern last December by ordering the overall number of new ships trimmed from 52 to 40, saving billions of dollars. The department's leaders also ordered production scaled back from three to two ships in 2017 and said all the work should eventually go to just one of the two shipyards.

But lawmakers on Capitol Hill—provoked or perhaps inspired by a steady stream of contractor donations and unusually determined Navy lobbying—are now on the verge of ordering the Pentagon to build more than Carter wanted.

A defense appropriations bill moving toward Senate approval in coming days or weeks directs that $475 million be spent by the Navy to procure an extra Littoral Combat Ship next year. The House of Representatives has already passed legislation ordering that $384 million be spent on the extra ship. So it’s virtually certain to happen, a prospect that cheers the Navy greatly but has evoked dismay among the ships’ many critics.

The extra spending is a direct repudiation of the secretary of defense, putting the Navy back on track with its original three-ship production schedule for 2017—and pushing the decision about the fate and total size of the LCS fleet off to the next president.

The Obama administration “strongly objects” to buying the extra ship, the White House said in a budget message to Congress on June 14. It said just two are needed now to preserve a competition that “ensures the best price for the taxpayer on the remaining ships” and that spending more would needlessly drain funds from other military priorities, including undersea, surface and aviation programs. Carter made clear at the time he cut back the program that there’s no love lost between his office and the Navy’s command, which he accused in a blunt letter of ignoring technical risks, neglecting warfighting needs and prioritizing warship “quantity over lethality.”

The extra ship, which is part of a program with an estimated life-cycle cost of at least $45 billion, is just one in a long list of armaments that Congress is about to force the Pentagon to buy against its will—following an annual ritual that routinely pads spending for the nation’s defense by billions of dollars and sometimes gives U.S. soldiers equipment that doesn’t work or they don’t need.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
biology]major
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2253 Posts
July 05 2016 17:07 GMT
#83134
So the person who decides if they actually press charges or not was seen meeting with Bill Clinton, and also has the support of the entire Obama administration. Yeah this seems fair and balanced, in the same way Fox News is
Question.?
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
July 05 2016 17:11 GMT
#83135
Everyone will see what they want to see in this. So get it all out of your systems and we can move on.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22105 Posts
July 05 2016 17:14 GMT
#83136
On July 06 2016 01:49 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
*golfclap*

Show nested quote +
In the nearly eight years since the first Littoral Combat Ship was delivered to the Navy, it hasn’t won many ardent fans beyond the Navy, its home-state lawmakers or the employees of the two shipbuilders producing dueling models. The ships’ maiden voyages have been marked by cracked hulls, engine failures, unexpected rusting, software snafus, weapons glitches and persistent criticism of how vulnerable they are to an attack.

“The ship is not reliable,” the Pentagon’s operational test and evaluation director said in a report released in January, only the most recent such judgment it has made. During 113 days of testing on one ship last year, some of the engines and water jets responsible for propelling the ship forward were out of commission for 45 days.

Defense Secretary Ash Carter expressed his concern last December by ordering the overall number of new ships trimmed from 52 to 40, saving billions of dollars. The department's leaders also ordered production scaled back from three to two ships in 2017 and said all the work should eventually go to just one of the two shipyards.

But lawmakers on Capitol Hill—provoked or perhaps inspired by a steady stream of contractor donations and unusually determined Navy lobbying—are now on the verge of ordering the Pentagon to build more than Carter wanted.

A defense appropriations bill moving toward Senate approval in coming days or weeks directs that $475 million be spent by the Navy to procure an extra Littoral Combat Ship next year. The House of Representatives has already passed legislation ordering that $384 million be spent on the extra ship. So it’s virtually certain to happen, a prospect that cheers the Navy greatly but has evoked dismay among the ships’ many critics.

The extra spending is a direct repudiation of the secretary of defense, putting the Navy back on track with its original three-ship production schedule for 2017—and pushing the decision about the fate and total size of the LCS fleet off to the next president.

The Obama administration “strongly objects” to buying the extra ship, the White House said in a budget message to Congress on June 14. It said just two are needed now to preserve a competition that “ensures the best price for the taxpayer on the remaining ships” and that spending more would needlessly drain funds from other military priorities, including undersea, surface and aviation programs. Carter made clear at the time he cut back the program that there’s no love lost between his office and the Navy’s command, which he accused in a blunt letter of ignoring technical risks, neglecting warfighting needs and prioritizing warship “quantity over lethality.”

The extra ship, which is part of a program with an estimated life-cycle cost of at least $45 billion, is just one in a long list of armaments that Congress is about to force the Pentagon to buy against its will—following an annual ritual that routinely pads spending for the nation’s defense by billions of dollars and sometimes gives U.S. soldiers equipment that doesn’t work or they don’t need.


Source

This always astonishes me. Politicians denying funds is one thing, and not always bad since the military can want to over-spend
But forcing them to buy equipment they do not want or need? How blatant can they be about having bought politicians.

sigh.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
July 05 2016 17:14 GMT
#83137
On July 06 2016 01:49 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
*golfclap*

Show nested quote +
In the nearly eight years since the first Littoral Combat Ship was delivered to the Navy, it hasn’t won many ardent fans beyond the Navy, its home-state lawmakers or the employees of the two shipbuilders producing dueling models. The ships’ maiden voyages have been marked by cracked hulls, engine failures, unexpected rusting, software snafus, weapons glitches and persistent criticism of how vulnerable they are to an attack.

“The ship is not reliable,” the Pentagon’s operational test and evaluation director said in a report released in January, only the most recent such judgment it has made. During 113 days of testing on one ship last year, some of the engines and water jets responsible for propelling the ship forward were out of commission for 45 days.

Defense Secretary Ash Carter expressed his concern last December by ordering the overall number of new ships trimmed from 52 to 40, saving billions of dollars. The department's leaders also ordered production scaled back from three to two ships in 2017 and said all the work should eventually go to just one of the two shipyards.

But lawmakers on Capitol Hill—provoked or perhaps inspired by a steady stream of contractor donations and unusually determined Navy lobbying—are now on the verge of ordering the Pentagon to build more than Carter wanted.

A defense appropriations bill moving toward Senate approval in coming days or weeks directs that $475 million be spent by the Navy to procure an extra Littoral Combat Ship next year. The House of Representatives has already passed legislation ordering that $384 million be spent on the extra ship. So it’s virtually certain to happen, a prospect that cheers the Navy greatly but has evoked dismay among the ships’ many critics.

The extra spending is a direct repudiation of the secretary of defense, putting the Navy back on track with its original three-ship production schedule for 2017—and pushing the decision about the fate and total size of the LCS fleet off to the next president.

The Obama administration “strongly objects” to buying the extra ship, the White House said in a budget message to Congress on June 14. It said just two are needed now to preserve a competition that “ensures the best price for the taxpayer on the remaining ships” and that spending more would needlessly drain funds from other military priorities, including undersea, surface and aviation programs. Carter made clear at the time he cut back the program that there’s no love lost between his office and the Navy’s command, which he accused in a blunt letter of ignoring technical risks, neglecting warfighting needs and prioritizing warship “quantity over lethality.”

The extra ship, which is part of a program with an estimated life-cycle cost of at least $45 billion, is just one in a long list of armaments that Congress is about to force the Pentagon to buy against its will—following an annual ritual that routinely pads spending for the nation’s defense by billions of dollars and sometimes gives U.S. soldiers equipment that doesn’t work or they don’t need.


Source

How the hell did we go from being being able to produce and field bleeding edge technology like the SR-71 within four years to not being able to build goddamned boat that doesn't leak?
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15737 Posts
July 05 2016 17:14 GMT
#83138
On July 06 2016 02:07 biology]major wrote:
So the person who decides if they actually press charges or not was seen meeting with Bill Clinton, and also has the support of the entire Obama administration. Yeah this seems fair and balanced, in the same way Fox News is


And what about Comey? The people who actually did the investigation said no charges would be successful.
Plansix
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States60190 Posts
July 05 2016 17:20 GMT
#83139
For those who are interested, I found this:

https://www.lawfareblog.com/jim-comeys-statement-clinton-emails-quick-and-dirty-analysis

Its a point by point break down of the charges that could have been brought and the reasoning not to bring them.
I have the Honor to be your Obedient Servant, P.6
TL+ Member
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
July 05 2016 17:21 GMT
#83140
Well Comey did put her in a bind when she said she didn't send classified material when he said that she did numerous times.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
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