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On June 15 2016 23:59 SolaR- wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2016 23:49 Biff The Understudy wrote:On June 15 2016 23:38 ticklishmusic wrote:
Ignoring that the vast majority of violence in the US is perpetrated by US nationals and doing pretty much diddly squat about it. Wonder how long blaming outsiders will be effective... I would argue that white supremacists and right wing christians are vastly dangerous on US soil than islamists. For a start, they kill more or less the same amount of people (9/11 excluded) and because they actually have a chance to push and implement their political agenda which is not the case for islamists. And that's a very significant difference. And there are more people who believe in their crazy ideas than people calling for sharia law. But I haven't seen Trump calling for a ban on christianity. In a democracy, we fight ideas with ideas. If some citizens have stupid ideas, well you fight them through education and political discussion, whether they are right wing christians or islamists. And as long as they respect the law (an immense majority of both fundamentalist christians and islamists do), whether they think it's a great idea to torture people, oppose interracial marriage or stone women who had sex outside marriage, you can have faith that american democracy will be stronger than their medieval opinions. In any case, banning a billion people from entering the country solely based on the fact that some of them have bad ideas is the most stupid suggestion and the biggest insult to democracy ever uttered in a presidential campaign. That's exactly the opposite of what America stands for. Please show data backing your claims, because that seems absolutely absurd. Right wing white supremacists have all been neuterd basically. They still exist, but they almost have no grip on american politics or influence.
Yep. White supremacists are pariahs in American society. They hold no sway whatsoever. No one worries about the KKK commanding political office anymore.
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On June 16 2016 00:37 ticklishmusic wrote:
I find it funny that extreme animal rights activists are more of a threat than the KKK.
it does seem a bit odd. but the KKK is lot weaker than it used to be; and many of the more violent people have probably shifted over to the neo-nazi movements.
I also haven't reviewed the study methodology for how they're assessing threats, and what mix of life vs property damage is involved.
and of course the degree to which things are a threat shifts over time.
If you want to read more about such groups, here's some links:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_Liberation_Front
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_Liberation_Front
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On June 16 2016 00:54 zlefin wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2016 00:37 ticklishmusic wrote:
I find it funny that extreme animal rights activists are more of a threat than the KKK. it does seem a bit odd. but the KKK is lot weaker than it used to be; and many of the more violent people have probably shifted over to the neo-nazi movements. I also haven't reviewed the study methodology for how they're assessing threats, and what mix of life vs property damage is involved. and of course the degree to which things are a threat shifts over time. If you want to read more about such groups, here's some links: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Animal_Liberation_Fronthttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_Liberation_Front
Oh yeah, they do some pretty crazy stuff. Who are the guys who deliberately poison the water supply with pesticides again? (I know it's big agriculture, but I mean the activist group  )
On June 16 2016 00:45 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2016 23:59 SolaR- wrote:On June 15 2016 23:49 Biff The Understudy wrote:On June 15 2016 23:38 ticklishmusic wrote:
Ignoring that the vast majority of violence in the US is perpetrated by US nationals and doing pretty much diddly squat about it. Wonder how long blaming outsiders will be effective... I would argue that white supremacists and right wing christians are vastly dangerous on US soil than islamists. For a start, they kill more or less the same amount of people (9/11 excluded) and because they actually have a chance to push and implement their political agenda which is not the case for islamists. And that's a very significant difference. And there are more people who believe in their crazy ideas than people calling for sharia law. But I haven't seen Trump calling for a ban on christianity. In a democracy, we fight ideas with ideas. If some citizens have stupid ideas, well you fight them through education and political discussion, whether they are right wing christians or islamists. And as long as they respect the law (an immense majority of both fundamentalist christians and islamists do), whether they think it's a great idea to torture people, oppose interracial marriage or stone women who had sex outside marriage, you can have faith that american democracy will be stronger than their medieval opinions. In any case, banning a billion people from entering the country solely based on the fact that some of them have bad ideas is the most stupid suggestion and the biggest insult to democracy ever uttered in a presidential campaign. That's exactly the opposite of what America stands for. Please show data backing your claims, because that seems absolutely absurd. Right wing white supremacists have all been neuterd basically. They still exist, but they almost have no grip on american politics or influence. Yep. White supremacists are pariahs in American society. They hold no sway whatsoever. No one worries about the KKK commanding political office anymore.
Maybe it's my lack of sleep and being a little overworked, but I can't tell if you're being serious or sarcastic. Presuming the former, there's plenty of racists and bigots who run and get elected to office for whatever reason.
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The reduced perceived threat of the KKK is due to racists adopting the super secret plan of not identifying as supporters of the KKK. They have moved to more subversive tactics.
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On June 15 2016 23:22 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2016 23:18 ticklishmusic wrote:On June 15 2016 23:16 SolaR- wrote:On June 15 2016 23:09 zlefin wrote:
I wouldn't say liberals call atheists asshole; certain anti-theists yes; but in most cases there you cna establish that the guys really are jerks about it.
agree on the race points; iirc arabs are classified as white under US census standards, as is north africa.
though about your claim on islam oppression; that's mostly a recent development. There was a large time period where islam was markedly less oppressive than christianity. I don't have the exact dates, but it covers much of the ottoman empire period, and I think some of the period before that, not sure though. I can't say how much of that is due to the ottomans as opposed to islam generally; though ottomans were the heads of islam during their time. That is why I said one of the most. I am well aware of Christianity's terrible history. I would say prior to the modern era, Catholicism takes the cake. However, i am almost sure in areas such as Saudi Arabia, it has been oppressive there for a long time. The ottoman turks are a bit different and have always been a bit more open mindend, probably because their history and influence of multiple cultures. I'm getting a bit of the "wow religion sucks and atheism is superior" vibe, here.  My favorite part about the super internet atheists is that the confidence they have that their views are these new, enlighten insight on the true nature of religion. Expect people have been having this debate ever since the enlightenment. None of this shit is new or mildly original.
and yet we still have true believers . . . did the enlightenment reach mecca? how disappointed would you be if your child converted to islam and was very serious about his/her faith?
total submission to anything scares me.
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Ticklish -> I don't know the group you're referring to, I haven't heard of such; nor does a quick google search find anything.
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On June 15 2016 23:49 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2016 23:38 ticklishmusic wrote:
Ignoring that the vast majority of violence in the US is perpetrated by US nationals and doing pretty much diddly squat about it. Wonder how long blaming outsiders will be effective... I would argue that white supremacists and right wing christians are vastly dangerous on US soil than islamists. For a start, they kill more or less the same amount of people (9/11 excluded) and because they actually have a chance to push and implement their political agenda which is not the case for islamists. And that's a very significant difference. And there are more people who believe in their crazy ideas than people calling for sharia law. But I haven't seen Trump calling for a ban on christianity. In a democracy, we fight ideas with ideas. If some citizens have stupid ideas, well you fight them through education and political discussion, whether they are right wing christians or islamists. And as long as they respect the law (an immense majority of both fundamentalist christians and islamists do), whether they think it's a great idea to torture people, oppose interracial marriage or stone women who had sex outside marriage, you can have faith that american democracy will be stronger than their medieval opinions. In any case, banning a billion people from entering the country solely based on the fact that some of them have bad ideas is the most stupid suggestion and the biggest insult to democracy ever uttered in a presidential campaign. That's exactly the opposite of what America stands for.
this is why the american imperialism of hillary is actually the best option for the true culture warrior compared to the isolationist reactionary trump. do you want total victory or do you want to close your eyes and stop up your ears and hope the muslims disappear on their own?
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On June 16 2016 01:06 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2016 23:22 Plansix wrote:On June 15 2016 23:18 ticklishmusic wrote:On June 15 2016 23:16 SolaR- wrote:On June 15 2016 23:09 zlefin wrote:
I wouldn't say liberals call atheists asshole; certain anti-theists yes; but in most cases there you cna establish that the guys really are jerks about it.
agree on the race points; iirc arabs are classified as white under US census standards, as is north africa.
though about your claim on islam oppression; that's mostly a recent development. There was a large time period where islam was markedly less oppressive than christianity. I don't have the exact dates, but it covers much of the ottoman empire period, and I think some of the period before that, not sure though. I can't say how much of that is due to the ottomans as opposed to islam generally; though ottomans were the heads of islam during their time. That is why I said one of the most. I am well aware of Christianity's terrible history. I would say prior to the modern era, Catholicism takes the cake. However, i am almost sure in areas such as Saudi Arabia, it has been oppressive there for a long time. The ottoman turks are a bit different and have always been a bit more open mindend, probably because their history and influence of multiple cultures. I'm getting a bit of the "wow religion sucks and atheism is superior" vibe, here. My favorite part about the super internet atheists is that the confidence they have that their views are these new, enlighten insight on the true nature of religion. Expect people have been having this debate ever since the enlightenment. None of this shit is new or mildly original. and yet we still have true believers . . . did the enlightenment reach mecca? how disappointed would you be if your child converted to islam and was very serious about his/her faith? total submission to anything scares me.
I wouldn't be disappointed in my child if they decided to convert to any religion. I dont fear religion.
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On June 16 2016 00:37 ticklishmusic wrote:
I find it funny that extreme animal rights activists are more of a threat than the KKK.
15 years ago animal rights/environmentalists were considered the number one threat.
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On June 16 2016 00:59 ticklishmusic wrote:
Maybe it's my lack of sleep and being a little overworked, but I can't tell if you're being serious or sarcastic. Presuming the former, there's plenty of racists and bigots who run and get elected to office for whatever reason.
Nope, I'm dead serious. To the extent that white supremacists are in office, they are completely in the closet. They can't openly promote their beliefs. They have no media allies. They are basically islands unto themselves, and have been rendered irrelevant over the past generation or two. They are little more than boogiemen to the left.
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On June 16 2016 01:12 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2016 01:06 IgnE wrote:On June 15 2016 23:22 Plansix wrote:On June 15 2016 23:18 ticklishmusic wrote:On June 15 2016 23:16 SolaR- wrote:On June 15 2016 23:09 zlefin wrote:
I wouldn't say liberals call atheists asshole; certain anti-theists yes; but in most cases there you cna establish that the guys really are jerks about it.
agree on the race points; iirc arabs are classified as white under US census standards, as is north africa.
though about your claim on islam oppression; that's mostly a recent development. There was a large time period where islam was markedly less oppressive than christianity. I don't have the exact dates, but it covers much of the ottoman empire period, and I think some of the period before that, not sure though. I can't say how much of that is due to the ottomans as opposed to islam generally; though ottomans were the heads of islam during their time. That is why I said one of the most. I am well aware of Christianity's terrible history. I would say prior to the modern era, Catholicism takes the cake. However, i am almost sure in areas such as Saudi Arabia, it has been oppressive there for a long time. The ottoman turks are a bit different and have always been a bit more open mindend, probably because their history and influence of multiple cultures. I'm getting a bit of the "wow religion sucks and atheism is superior" vibe, here. My favorite part about the super internet atheists is that the confidence they have that their views are these new, enlighten insight on the true nature of religion. Expect people have been having this debate ever since the enlightenment. None of this shit is new or mildly original. and yet we still have true believers . . . did the enlightenment reach mecca? how disappointed would you be if your child converted to islam and was very serious about his/her faith? total submission to anything scares me. I wouldn't be disappointed in my child if they decided to convert to any religion. I dont fear religion.
please, i think you are lying. imagine your daughter comes home in a burkha with a serious muslim man and starts making comments about your heathen american lifestyle at thanksgiving.
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On June 16 2016 01:13 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2016 00:59 ticklishmusic wrote:
Maybe it's my lack of sleep and being a little overworked, but I can't tell if you're being serious or sarcastic. Presuming the former, there's plenty of racists and bigots who run and get elected to office for whatever reason. Nope, I'm dead serious. To the extent that white supremacists are in office, they are completely in the closet. They can't openly promote their beliefs. They have no media allies. They are basically islands unto themselves, and have been rendered irrelevant over the past generation or two. They are little more than boogiemen to the left.
You are talking about the Pre-Trump reality. Post-Trump the alt-Right will be out in force. For a preview, check out the ultra-nationalist (not quite white nationalist) European right. The Trumpkins who are worried about Mexican judges who have lived here for generations and Afghan immigrants that were born here aren't going to go away after Trump loses disastrously.
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On June 16 2016 01:17 JW_DTLA wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2016 01:13 xDaunt wrote:On June 16 2016 00:59 ticklishmusic wrote:
Maybe it's my lack of sleep and being a little overworked, but I can't tell if you're being serious or sarcastic. Presuming the former, there's plenty of racists and bigots who run and get elected to office for whatever reason. Nope, I'm dead serious. To the extent that white supremacists are in office, they are completely in the closet. They can't openly promote their beliefs. They have no media allies. They are basically islands unto themselves, and have been rendered irrelevant over the past generation or two. They are little more than boogiemen to the left. You are talking about the Pre-Trump reality. Post-Trump the alt-Right will be out in force. For a preview, check out the ultra-nationalist (not quite white nationalist) European right. The Trumpkins who are worried about Mexican judges who have lived here for generations and Afghan immigrants that were born here aren't going to go away after Trump loses disastrously.
Oh, please. The truly racist elements of the alt-right are not and won't be mainstream, even if Trump is elected. Overt racism in American politics is dead.
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On June 16 2016 01:14 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2016 01:12 Plansix wrote:On June 16 2016 01:06 IgnE wrote:On June 15 2016 23:22 Plansix wrote:On June 15 2016 23:18 ticklishmusic wrote:On June 15 2016 23:16 SolaR- wrote:On June 15 2016 23:09 zlefin wrote:
I wouldn't say liberals call atheists asshole; certain anti-theists yes; but in most cases there you cna establish that the guys really are jerks about it.
agree on the race points; iirc arabs are classified as white under US census standards, as is north africa.
though about your claim on islam oppression; that's mostly a recent development. There was a large time period where islam was markedly less oppressive than christianity. I don't have the exact dates, but it covers much of the ottoman empire period, and I think some of the period before that, not sure though. I can't say how much of that is due to the ottomans as opposed to islam generally; though ottomans were the heads of islam during their time. That is why I said one of the most. I am well aware of Christianity's terrible history. I would say prior to the modern era, Catholicism takes the cake. However, i am almost sure in areas such as Saudi Arabia, it has been oppressive there for a long time. The ottoman turks are a bit different and have always been a bit more open mindend, probably because their history and influence of multiple cultures. I'm getting a bit of the "wow religion sucks and atheism is superior" vibe, here. My favorite part about the super internet atheists is that the confidence they have that their views are these new, enlighten insight on the true nature of religion. Expect people have been having this debate ever since the enlightenment. None of this shit is new or mildly original. and yet we still have true believers . . . did the enlightenment reach mecca? how disappointed would you be if your child converted to islam and was very serious about his/her faith? total submission to anything scares me. I wouldn't be disappointed in my child if they decided to convert to any religion. I dont fear religion. please, i think you are lying. imagine your daughter comes home in a burkha with a serious muslim man and starts making comments about your heathen american lifestyle at thanksgiving.
I am Christian. I don’t fear other religions. I fear people and their actions. What you are talking is the exact same as if they joined a super Christian cult and decided to live in a compound in some rural state. I would not support that because I believe it is unhealthy and reclusive Christian compounds have a bad history.
But with the context you provide of a child joining devout US Muslim community, I would have no problem.
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Speaking of the alt-right, Twitter suspended Milo. I suspect that will bite them in the ass.
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On June 16 2016 01:25 xDaunt wrote:
Speaking of the alt-right, Twitter suspended Milo. I suspect that will bite them in the ass.
Are there specific reasons why? It's hard to just say "Well, this guy's just an all-around inflammatory douchebag who trolls people" and leave it at that, although to be fair, Twitter can presumably ban any account they want (much like TL).
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Please, he has been begging to be suspended so he can whine about how repressed he is. How the evil PC community is repressing free speech on a privately owned platform. It’s no different that TL perma banning someone. But the article will come and maybe he will ask the White House about how they plan to deal with Twitter’s attack on free speech again.
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On June 16 2016 01:30 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2016 01:25 xDaunt wrote:
Speaking of the alt-right, Twitter suspended Milo. I suspect that will bite them in the ass. Are there specific reasons why? It's hard to just say "Well, this guy's just an all-around inflammatory douchebag who trolls people" and leave it at that, although to be fair, Twitter can presumably ban any account they want (much like TL).
Think he just said mean things about Islam again.
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On June 16 2016 01:25 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2016 01:14 IgnE wrote:On June 16 2016 01:12 Plansix wrote:On June 16 2016 01:06 IgnE wrote:On June 15 2016 23:22 Plansix wrote:On June 15 2016 23:18 ticklishmusic wrote:On June 15 2016 23:16 SolaR- wrote:On June 15 2016 23:09 zlefin wrote:
I wouldn't say liberals call atheists asshole; certain anti-theists yes; but in most cases there you cna establish that the guys really are jerks about it.
agree on the race points; iirc arabs are classified as white under US census standards, as is north africa.
though about your claim on islam oppression; that's mostly a recent development. There was a large time period where islam was markedly less oppressive than christianity. I don't have the exact dates, but it covers much of the ottoman empire period, and I think some of the period before that, not sure though. I can't say how much of that is due to the ottomans as opposed to islam generally; though ottomans were the heads of islam during their time. That is why I said one of the most. I am well aware of Christianity's terrible history. I would say prior to the modern era, Catholicism takes the cake. However, i am almost sure in areas such as Saudi Arabia, it has been oppressive there for a long time. The ottoman turks are a bit different and have always been a bit more open mindend, probably because their history and influence of multiple cultures. I'm getting a bit of the "wow religion sucks and atheism is superior" vibe, here. My favorite part about the super internet atheists is that the confidence they have that their views are these new, enlighten insight on the true nature of religion. Expect people have been having this debate ever since the enlightenment. None of this shit is new or mildly original. and yet we still have true believers . . . did the enlightenment reach mecca? how disappointed would you be if your child converted to islam and was very serious about his/her faith? total submission to anything scares me. I wouldn't be disappointed in my child if they decided to convert to any religion. I dont fear religion. please, i think you are lying. imagine your daughter comes home in a burkha with a serious muslim man and starts making comments about your heathen american lifestyle at thanksgiving. I am Christian. I don’t fear other religions. I fear people and their actions. What you are talking is the exact same as if they joined a super Christian cult and decided to live in a compound in some rural state. I would not support that because I believe it is unhealthy and reclusive Christian compounds have a bad history. But with the context you provide of a child joining devout US Muslim community, I would have no problem.
yeah it is the exact same as if they converted to become "super christian" but you've stretched it out a bit into "cult". do you think all burkha wearers are members of an islamic cult?
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On June 16 2016 01:25 xDaunt wrote:
Speaking of the alt-right, Twitter suspended Milo. I suspect that will bite them in the ass.
That's wonderful, a journalist with 250k followers gets suspended, but Buzzfeed's John Doe with 1.5k gets verified so we all know it's the real him and not someone just trying to steal his celebrity.
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EPT
