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On June 15 2016 21:56 xDaunt wrote:
Considering that majorities (sometimes large ones) support Sharia law, you still are going to find a large number of Muslims supporting the death penalty for apostasy.
But the there are many degrees of “Support Sharia law”. There are plenty of legitimate, specific criticisms that can be levied against countries and cultures in the Middle East. If we are going to criticism a culture let’s cite specific events, rather than a bunch of confirmation bias based on polling data.
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On June 15 2016 21:29 mahrgell wrote:
Doesn't really need a friend to show some respect.
Otherwise they could also ask at Immigration to just burn all other countries flags, because you know, you should now subscribe only to your new home countries flag.
Nothing hostile about it, but just burn a US flag when immigrating to the EU, thanks.
I've burned qurans and bibles in my rebellious youth. I've eaten pages from the bible for shock value while drunk. I have also burned several american flags.
There are objects nothing more. The fact that people place so much inportance in them is why we have problems in the first place. In fact, those religious texts have been symbols of tyranny and oppression for centuries, why respect it?
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On June 15 2016 22:17 SolaR- wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2016 21:29 mahrgell wrote:
Doesn't really need a friend to show some respect.
Otherwise they could also ask at Immigration to just burn all other countries flags, because you know, you should now subscribe only to your new home countries flag.
Nothing hostile about it, but just burn a US flag when immigrating to the EU, thanks. I've burned qurans and bibles in my rebellious youth. I've eaten pages from the bible for shock value while drunk. I have also burned several american flags. There are objects nothing more. The fact that people place so much inportance in them is why we have problems in the first place. In fact, those religious texts have been symbols of tyranny and oppression for centuries, why respect it?
You != other people.
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That is fine for you I guess. Personally I don’t go around destroying books in general, especially ones that people are invested in. At the end of the day, it costs me nothing to avoid burning religious texts for religions I am not part of.
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Just throwing this out far as terrorism goes:
![[image loading]](http://www.pewforum.org/files/2013/04/gsi2-overview-13.png)
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On June 15 2016 22:20 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2016 22:17 SolaR- wrote:On June 15 2016 21:29 mahrgell wrote:
Doesn't really need a friend to show some respect.
Otherwise they could also ask at Immigration to just burn all other countries flags, because you know, you should now subscribe only to your new home countries flag.
Nothing hostile about it, but just burn a US flag when immigrating to the EU, thanks. I've burned qurans and bibles in my rebellious youth. I've eaten pages from the bible for shock value while drunk. I have also burned several american flags. There are objects nothing more. The fact that people place so much inportance in them is why we have problems in the first place. In fact, those religious texts have been symbols of tyranny and oppression for centuries, why respect it? You != other people.
So i should place importance and respect for something, simply because others do? Collectivism at it's finest.
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On June 15 2016 22:21 ticklishmusic wrote:Just throwing this out far as terrorism goes:
I don't know if this helps your case. The figures from egypt, and afghanistan are disturbing. Egypt is supposed to be more "modern" as well.
Also, why is saudia arabia, syria, and iran excluded? Algeria and libya?
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On June 15 2016 22:23 SolaR- wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2016 22:20 Gorsameth wrote:On June 15 2016 22:17 SolaR- wrote:On June 15 2016 21:29 mahrgell wrote:
Doesn't really need a friend to show some respect.
Otherwise they could also ask at Immigration to just burn all other countries flags, because you know, you should now subscribe only to your new home countries flag.
Nothing hostile about it, but just burn a US flag when immigrating to the EU, thanks. I've burned qurans and bibles in my rebellious youth. I've eaten pages from the bible for shock value while drunk. I have also burned several american flags. There are objects nothing more. The fact that people place so much inportance in them is why we have problems in the first place. In fact, those religious texts have been symbols of tyranny and oppression for centuries, why respect it? You != other people. So i should place importance and respect for something, simply because others do? Collectivism at it's finest.
There is no requirement to do so. Just don’t expect people to be supportive of your decision to go out of your way to be an asshole.
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On June 15 2016 22:29 SolaR- wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2016 22:21 ticklishmusic wrote:Just throwing this out far as terrorism goes: I don't know if this helps your case. The figures from egypt, and afghanistan are disturbing. Egypt is supposed to be more "modern" as well. Also, why is saudia arabia, syria, and iran excluded? Algeria and libya?
Because they were unable to poll those countries accurately? And no one is saying the Middle East is perfect or some nations don’t have problems. But most of those countries do not like suicide bombings. And the more relevant question is why do some of the people in some nations view them as justified? What makes those countries different from the others?
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On June 15 2016 22:29 SolaR- wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2016 22:21 ticklishmusic wrote:Just throwing this out far as terrorism goes: I don't know if this helps your case. The figures from egypt, and afghanistan are disturbing. Egypt is supposed to be more "modern" as well. Also, why is saudia arabia, syria, and iran excluded? Algeria and libya?
Off the top of my head, maybe because it's really freaking hard to do a survey in Libya and Syria (civil war) and Iran (very isolated). I don't know about Saudi Arabia, but probably not the best thing since we're buddy buddy with them (I disagree with that, but geopolitics makes for odd bedfellows I suppose). I would guess Syria is a fairly high number due to the current instability, Saudi Arabia is fairly high (oops, embarrassing), but Iran is actually not too high.
Considering Afghanistan has been a shithole pretty much since the last king was overthrown, it's not surprising that extremism is such a problem. AFter that it was the Soviets and CIA screwing around for a couple decades before they moved elsewhere and let it fester. Pakistan is kind of a shithole too with a corrupt, puppet government whose strings are pulled by a military junta. Egypt is a little harder to explain, though the military coup there is probably not helping much.
But you're missing the forest for the trees. The main point is that only a very small portion of Muslims think terrorism is okay in any way. Beyond that, extremism of some sort exists in basically any group. Look at the Lord's Resistance Army (Christian) and those Buddhists who terrorize Rohinga Muslims for example.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
isis is kind of like the islamic bernie movement with their primary target the moderate muslims of the center
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On June 15 2016 22:30 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2016 22:23 SolaR- wrote:On June 15 2016 22:20 Gorsameth wrote:On June 15 2016 22:17 SolaR- wrote:On June 15 2016 21:29 mahrgell wrote:
Doesn't really need a friend to show some respect.
Otherwise they could also ask at Immigration to just burn all other countries flags, because you know, you should now subscribe only to your new home countries flag.
Nothing hostile about it, but just burn a US flag when immigrating to the EU, thanks. I've burned qurans and bibles in my rebellious youth. I've eaten pages from the bible for shock value while drunk. I have also burned several american flags. There are objects nothing more. The fact that people place so much inportance in them is why we have problems in the first place. In fact, those religious texts have been symbols of tyranny and oppression for centuries, why respect it? You != other people. So i should place importance and respect for something, simply because others do? Collectivism at it's finest. There is no requirement to do so. Just don’t expect people to be supportive of your decision to go out of your way to be an asshole.
The atheist who has to see religion permeating through everything and influencing society through it's dogmatic prininciples is the asshole because he burns a book that you can buy at your local book store for 10 dollars.
I find it funny liberals love to call atheists or anti-theists assholes for simply criticizing religion, but will go to great lengths to defend Islam. One of the most oppressive religions of all time.
Religion is a choice, and like all choices it is subject to criticism and does not qualify for any level of respect. It is not to be grouped with race, gender, or sexuality as they are inherent in one's identity that cannot be changed.
The fact that we have so many religions with conflicting principles with people who take it so seriously to the extent of life or death is the very reason while we will continue to have violent conflicts. Immunity from criticism and their unwillingness to hear any criticism is the primary reason why Islam has lacked reform and modernization compared to the other Judaic religions.
In addition, people in this thread need to stop referring to Muslims as a race of people. It is a religion, not a race. The middle east is multi cultural. Black, brown, and white muslims. Many arabs are borderline white. So stop referring to it as a ban on brown people.
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I wouldn't say liberals call atheists asshole; certain anti-theists yes; but in most cases there you cna establish that the guys really are jerks about it.
agree on the race points; iirc arabs are classified as white under US census standards, as is north africa.
though about your claim on islam oppression; that's mostly a recent development. There was a large time period where islam was markedly less oppressive than christianity. I don't have the exact dates, but it covers much of the ottoman empire period, and I think some of the period before that, not sure though. I can't say how much of that is due to the ottomans as opposed to islam generally; though ottomans were the heads of islam during their time.
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Your the definition of an asshole atheist.
I would have absolutely no problem burning a Bible/Koran/Flag/Whatever religious/ideological/country-Idol, but i damn sure wouldn’t do it in front of someone that is invested in these things EXCEPT when i would want to hurt him (that would make me an asshole). Doing this would not change the other guys opinion one bit, it wouldn’t help to make my point one bit, it would only serve to hurt feelings. Doing this makes you the definition of a douchebag.
Burning anything to proof something is stupid anyway.
You like your car? Burn it to proof that you don’t use it for speeding! You won’t do it? Guilty as charged!
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On June 15 2016 23:09 zlefin wrote:
I wouldn't say liberals call atheists asshole; certain anti-theists yes; but in most cases there you cna establish that the guys really are jerks about it.
agree on the race points; iirc arabs are classified as white under US census standards, as is north africa.
though about your claim on islam oppression; that's mostly a recent development. There was a large time period where islam was markedly less oppressive than christianity. I don't have the exact dates, but it covers much of the ottoman empire period, and I think some of the period before that, not sure though. I can't say how much of that is due to the ottomans as opposed to islam generally; though ottomans were the heads of islam during their time.
That is why I said one of the most. I am well aware of Christianity's terrible history. I would say prior to the modern era, Catholicism takes the cake. However, i am almost sure in areas such as Saudi Arabia, it has been oppressive there for a long time. The ottoman turks are a bit different and have always been a bit more open mindend, probably because their history and influence of multiple cultures.
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On June 15 2016 23:05 SolaR- wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2016 22:30 Plansix wrote:On June 15 2016 22:23 SolaR- wrote:On June 15 2016 22:20 Gorsameth wrote:On June 15 2016 22:17 SolaR- wrote:On June 15 2016 21:29 mahrgell wrote:
Doesn't really need a friend to show some respect.
Otherwise they could also ask at Immigration to just burn all other countries flags, because you know, you should now subscribe only to your new home countries flag.
Nothing hostile about it, but just burn a US flag when immigrating to the EU, thanks. I've burned qurans and bibles in my rebellious youth. I've eaten pages from the bible for shock value while drunk. I have also burned several american flags. There are objects nothing more. The fact that people place so much inportance in them is why we have problems in the first place. In fact, those religious texts have been symbols of tyranny and oppression for centuries, why respect it? You != other people. So i should place importance and respect for something, simply because others do? Collectivism at it's finest. There is no requirement to do so. Just don’t expect people to be supportive of your decision to go out of your way to be an asshole. The atheist who has to see religion permeating through everything and influencing society through it's dogmatic prininciples is the asshole because he burns a book that you can buy at your local book store for 10 dollars. I find it funny liberals love to call atheists or anti-theists assholes for simply criticizing religion, but will go to great lengths to defend Islam. One of the most oppressive religions of all time. Religion is a choice, and like all choices it is subject to criticism and does not qualify for any level of respect. It is not to be grouped with race, gender, or sexuality as they are inherent in one's identity that cannot be changed. The fact that we have so many religions with conflicting principles with people who take it so seriously to the extent of life or death is the very reason while we will continue to have violent conflicts. Immunity from criticism and their unwillingness to hear any criticism is the primary reason why Islam has lacked reform and modernization compared to the other Judaic religions. In addition, people in this thread need to stop referring to Muslims as a race of people. It is a religion, not a race. The middle east is multi cultural. Black, brown, and white muslims. Many arabs are borderline white. So stop referring to it as a ban on brown people.
That is all well and good. But that doesn’t make the decision to burn books people value just because you can any less of an asshole decision.
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On June 15 2016 23:16 SolaR- wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2016 23:09 zlefin wrote:
I wouldn't say liberals call atheists asshole; certain anti-theists yes; but in most cases there you cna establish that the guys really are jerks about it.
agree on the race points; iirc arabs are classified as white under US census standards, as is north africa.
though about your claim on islam oppression; that's mostly a recent development. There was a large time period where islam was markedly less oppressive than christianity. I don't have the exact dates, but it covers much of the ottoman empire period, and I think some of the period before that, not sure though. I can't say how much of that is due to the ottomans as opposed to islam generally; though ottomans were the heads of islam during their time. That is why I said one of the most. I am well aware of Christianity's terrible history. I would say prior to the modern era, Catholicism takes the cake. However, i am almost sure in areas such as Saudi Arabia, it has been oppressive there for a long time. The ottoman turks are a bit different and have always been a bit more open mindend, probably because their history and influence of multiple cultures.
I'm getting a bit of the "wow religion sucks and atheism is superior" vibe, here. 
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On June 15 2016 23:05 SolaR- wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2016 22:30 Plansix wrote:On June 15 2016 22:23 SolaR- wrote:On June 15 2016 22:20 Gorsameth wrote:On June 15 2016 22:17 SolaR- wrote:On June 15 2016 21:29 mahrgell wrote:
Doesn't really need a friend to show some respect.
Otherwise they could also ask at Immigration to just burn all other countries flags, because you know, you should now subscribe only to your new home countries flag.
Nothing hostile about it, but just burn a US flag when immigrating to the EU, thanks. I've burned qurans and bibles in my rebellious youth. I've eaten pages from the bible for shock value while drunk. I have also burned several american flags. There are objects nothing more. The fact that people place so much inportance in them is why we have problems in the first place. In fact, those religious texts have been symbols of tyranny and oppression for centuries, why respect it? You != other people. So i should place importance and respect for something, simply because others do? Collectivism at it's finest. There is no requirement to do so. Just don’t expect people to be supportive of your decision to go out of your way to be an asshole. The atheist who has to see religion permeating through everything and influencing society through it's dogmatic prininciples is the asshole because he burns a book that you can buy at your local book store for 10 dollars.I find it funny liberals love to call atheists or anti-theists assholes for simply criticizing religion, but will go to great lengths to defend Islam. One of the most oppressive religions of all time. Religion is a choice, and like all choices it is subject to criticism and does not qualify for any level of respect. It is not to be grouped with race, gender, or sexuality as they are inherent in one's identity that cannot be changed. The fact that we have so many religions with conflicting principles with people who take it so seriously to the extent of life or death is the very reason while we will continue to have violent conflicts. Immunity from criticism and their unwillingness to hear any criticism is the primary reason why Islam has lacked reform and modernization compared to the other Judaic religions. In addition, people in this thread need to stop referring to Muslims as a race of people. It is a religion, not a race. The middle east is multi cultural. Black, brown, and white muslims. Many arabs are borderline white. So stop referring to it as a ban on brown people.
I'm pretty sure that describes me and probably most people on TL. Somehow I've never burned any of those things because it doesn't serve any purpose. I'm not saying you shouldn't be allowed to, free speech you should be able to torch it if that's your desire. But unless you're going for some massive fedora points or to be the edgiest guy around its really pointless. I despise religion myself and yet I think doing that makes you an asshole.
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On June 15 2016 23:18 ticklishmusic wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2016 23:16 SolaR- wrote:On June 15 2016 23:09 zlefin wrote:
I wouldn't say liberals call atheists asshole; certain anti-theists yes; but in most cases there you cna establish that the guys really are jerks about it.
agree on the race points; iirc arabs are classified as white under US census standards, as is north africa.
though about your claim on islam oppression; that's mostly a recent development. There was a large time period where islam was markedly less oppressive than christianity. I don't have the exact dates, but it covers much of the ottoman empire period, and I think some of the period before that, not sure though. I can't say how much of that is due to the ottomans as opposed to islam generally; though ottomans were the heads of islam during their time. That is why I said one of the most. I am well aware of Christianity's terrible history. I would say prior to the modern era, Catholicism takes the cake. However, i am almost sure in areas such as Saudi Arabia, it has been oppressive there for a long time. The ottoman turks are a bit different and have always been a bit more open mindend, probably because their history and influence of multiple cultures. I'm getting a bit of the "wow religion sucks and atheism is superior" vibe, here.
My favorite part about the super internet atheists is that the confidence they have that their views are these new, enlighten insight on the true nature of religion. Expect people have been having this debate ever since the enlightenment. None of this shit is new or mildly original.
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On June 15 2016 22:21 ticklishmusic wrote:Just throwing this out far as terrorism goes:
So Just in The middle east section there are about 32 million people who are ok with suicide bombings. This is what Trump should use to show the backwardness of islam while at the same time justifying his argument to ban people from these countries. All it takes is 1 radicalized person to do massive damage, and inspire fear.
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