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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
He is not impressed with the argument that he should claiming the cause of violent shootings before he received a security brief from the FBI.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On June 15 2016 01:36 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2016 01:31 Mohdoo wrote:On June 15 2016 01:27 LegalLord wrote:On June 15 2016 01:23 Mohdoo wrote:On June 15 2016 01:12 LegalLord wrote:On June 15 2016 00:54 Mohdoo wrote:On June 15 2016 00:45 ticklishmusic wrote:
Russian government hackers penetrated DNC, stole opposition research on Trump
Russian government hackers penetrated the computer network of the Democratic National Committee and gained access to the entire database of opposition research on GOP presidential candidate Donald Trump, according to committee officials and security experts who responded to the breach.
The intruders so thoroughly compromised the DNC’s system they also were able to read all e-mail and chat traffic, said DNC officials and the security experts.
The intrusion into the DNC was one of several targeting American political organizations. The networks of presidential candidates Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump were also targeted by Russian spies, as were the computers of some GOP political action committees, U.S. officials said. But details on those cases were not available.
Source There is no difference between doing this and breaking into a building and taking pictures of cabinets full of documents. This should be responded to with sanctions. I am really sick of shit not being taken seriously because someone used a computer to do it. Do we suddenly live in a world where espionage between two not-so-friendly nations doesn't happen? So we should just take the perspective that everyone is fucking everyone, so let's just let it slide? What incentive do we have to not use evidence of foul play to leverage our allies to weaken an enemy? We should be using this as much as we can. Maybe Germany should have put sanctions on the US for the wiretapping Merkel as was discussed a year or two ago? The fact that you refer to Russia as an enemy, rather than just another nation with its own geopolitical interests (like, you know, every other country in the world) probably means that your perspective on this is blinded by knee-jerk emotional reactions. If we all had these knee-jerk disproportional reactions to every unhappy event that affects the US then the world would be a much shittier place. Thankfully our diplomats are a bit more level-headed than that. Russia and the US are in as close to direct military conflict as it gets modern day. Pretending we are all just a bunch of humans trying to get by is silly. Geopolitical power struggles exist and pretending we are all some united people is silly. If it was in Germany's interest to put sanctions on the US, it would have. It has no such interest. We were close to military conflict in the Cold War too. But our efforts to spy on each other and obtain information about our opponents true intent was one of the ways that war was prevented. Nations spy on each other to find out what the other side is really planning and thinking. When Reagan was shot, many Russians back in Russia believed there would be a coup. It was only the people in the Russian embassy that knew that wouldn’t take place. Expect some response, but we are doing the exact same thing to them right now. And they know it. Its part of the game both sides play.
Honestly though, it seems that the DNC fucked up yet again. If some random Bernie Sanders staffer can get DNC data, so can foreign hackers. They need to do a better job of securing their data.
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On June 15 2016 02:18 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2016 01:36 Plansix wrote:On June 15 2016 01:31 Mohdoo wrote:On June 15 2016 01:27 LegalLord wrote:On June 15 2016 01:23 Mohdoo wrote:On June 15 2016 01:12 LegalLord wrote:On June 15 2016 00:54 Mohdoo wrote:On June 15 2016 00:45 ticklishmusic wrote:
Russian government hackers penetrated DNC, stole opposition research on Trump
Russian government hackers penetrated the computer network of the Democratic National Committee and gained access to the entire database of opposition research on GOP presidential candidate Donald Trump, according to committee officials and security experts who responded to the breach.
The intruders so thoroughly compromised the DNC’s system they also were able to read all e-mail and chat traffic, said DNC officials and the security experts.
The intrusion into the DNC was one of several targeting American political organizations. The networks of presidential candidates Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump were also targeted by Russian spies, as were the computers of some GOP political action committees, U.S. officials said. But details on those cases were not available.
Source There is no difference between doing this and breaking into a building and taking pictures of cabinets full of documents. This should be responded to with sanctions. I am really sick of shit not being taken seriously because someone used a computer to do it. Do we suddenly live in a world where espionage between two not-so-friendly nations doesn't happen? So we should just take the perspective that everyone is fucking everyone, so let's just let it slide? What incentive do we have to not use evidence of foul play to leverage our allies to weaken an enemy? We should be using this as much as we can. Maybe Germany should have put sanctions on the US for the wiretapping Merkel as was discussed a year or two ago? The fact that you refer to Russia as an enemy, rather than just another nation with its own geopolitical interests (like, you know, every other country in the world) probably means that your perspective on this is blinded by knee-jerk emotional reactions. If we all had these knee-jerk disproportional reactions to every unhappy event that affects the US then the world would be a much shittier place. Thankfully our diplomats are a bit more level-headed than that. Russia and the US are in as close to direct military conflict as it gets modern day. Pretending we are all just a bunch of humans trying to get by is silly. Geopolitical power struggles exist and pretending we are all some united people is silly. If it was in Germany's interest to put sanctions on the US, it would have. It has no such interest. We were close to military conflict in the Cold War too. But our efforts to spy on each other and obtain information about our opponents true intent was one of the ways that war was prevented. Nations spy on each other to find out what the other side is really planning and thinking. When Reagan was shot, many Russians back in Russia believed there would be a coup. It was only the people in the Russian embassy that knew that wouldn’t take place. Expect some response, but we are doing the exact same thing to them right now. And they know it. Its part of the game both sides play. Honestly though, it seems that the DNC fucked up yet again. If some random Bernie Sanders staffer can get DNC data, so can foreign hackers. They need to do a better job of securing their data.
You're not wrong. The DNC is sort of a clown show in general.
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On June 15 2016 02:18 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2016 01:36 Plansix wrote:On June 15 2016 01:31 Mohdoo wrote:On June 15 2016 01:27 LegalLord wrote:On June 15 2016 01:23 Mohdoo wrote:On June 15 2016 01:12 LegalLord wrote:On June 15 2016 00:54 Mohdoo wrote:On June 15 2016 00:45 ticklishmusic wrote:
Russian government hackers penetrated DNC, stole opposition research on Trump
Russian government hackers penetrated the computer network of the Democratic National Committee and gained access to the entire database of opposition research on GOP presidential candidate Donald Trump, according to committee officials and security experts who responded to the breach.
The intruders so thoroughly compromised the DNC’s system they also were able to read all e-mail and chat traffic, said DNC officials and the security experts.
The intrusion into the DNC was one of several targeting American political organizations. The networks of presidential candidates Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump were also targeted by Russian spies, as were the computers of some GOP political action committees, U.S. officials said. But details on those cases were not available.
Source There is no difference between doing this and breaking into a building and taking pictures of cabinets full of documents. This should be responded to with sanctions. I am really sick of shit not being taken seriously because someone used a computer to do it. Do we suddenly live in a world where espionage between two not-so-friendly nations doesn't happen? So we should just take the perspective that everyone is fucking everyone, so let's just let it slide? What incentive do we have to not use evidence of foul play to leverage our allies to weaken an enemy? We should be using this as much as we can. Maybe Germany should have put sanctions on the US for the wiretapping Merkel as was discussed a year or two ago? The fact that you refer to Russia as an enemy, rather than just another nation with its own geopolitical interests (like, you know, every other country in the world) probably means that your perspective on this is blinded by knee-jerk emotional reactions. If we all had these knee-jerk disproportional reactions to every unhappy event that affects the US then the world would be a much shittier place. Thankfully our diplomats are a bit more level-headed than that. Russia and the US are in as close to direct military conflict as it gets modern day. Pretending we are all just a bunch of humans trying to get by is silly. Geopolitical power struggles exist and pretending we are all some united people is silly. If it was in Germany's interest to put sanctions on the US, it would have. It has no such interest. We were close to military conflict in the Cold War too. But our efforts to spy on each other and obtain information about our opponents true intent was one of the ways that war was prevented. Nations spy on each other to find out what the other side is really planning and thinking. When Reagan was shot, many Russians back in Russia believed there would be a coup. It was only the people in the Russian embassy that knew that wouldn’t take place. Expect some response, but we are doing the exact same thing to them right now. And they know it. Its part of the game both sides play. Honestly though, it seems that the DNC fucked up yet again. If some random Bernie Sanders staffer can get DNC data, so can foreign hackers. They need to do a better job of securing their data.
From the sounds of the article it was by no means exclusive to the DNC. There's pretty much no way a private organization can secure virtual data from a world power that wants it anyway unless they have a huge slush fund or specialize in cybersecurity.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
yea the dnc fucked up by expecting better from the bernie campaign. i mean when you fail to padlock every item in your house when your cousin comes to visit and things get stolen, you are clearly the problem.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On June 15 2016 02:22 TheTenthDoc wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2016 02:18 LegalLord wrote:On June 15 2016 01:36 Plansix wrote:On June 15 2016 01:31 Mohdoo wrote:On June 15 2016 01:27 LegalLord wrote:On June 15 2016 01:23 Mohdoo wrote:On June 15 2016 01:12 LegalLord wrote:On June 15 2016 00:54 Mohdoo wrote:On June 15 2016 00:45 ticklishmusic wrote:
Russian government hackers penetrated DNC, stole opposition research on Trump
Russian government hackers penetrated the computer network of the Democratic National Committee and gained access to the entire database of opposition research on GOP presidential candidate Donald Trump, according to committee officials and security experts who responded to the breach.
The intruders so thoroughly compromised the DNC’s system they also were able to read all e-mail and chat traffic, said DNC officials and the security experts.
The intrusion into the DNC was one of several targeting American political organizations. The networks of presidential candidates Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump were also targeted by Russian spies, as were the computers of some GOP political action committees, U.S. officials said. But details on those cases were not available.
Source There is no difference between doing this and breaking into a building and taking pictures of cabinets full of documents. This should be responded to with sanctions. I am really sick of shit not being taken seriously because someone used a computer to do it. Do we suddenly live in a world where espionage between two not-so-friendly nations doesn't happen? So we should just take the perspective that everyone is fucking everyone, so let's just let it slide? What incentive do we have to not use evidence of foul play to leverage our allies to weaken an enemy? We should be using this as much as we can. Maybe Germany should have put sanctions on the US for the wiretapping Merkel as was discussed a year or two ago? The fact that you refer to Russia as an enemy, rather than just another nation with its own geopolitical interests (like, you know, every other country in the world) probably means that your perspective on this is blinded by knee-jerk emotional reactions. If we all had these knee-jerk disproportional reactions to every unhappy event that affects the US then the world would be a much shittier place. Thankfully our diplomats are a bit more level-headed than that. Russia and the US are in as close to direct military conflict as it gets modern day. Pretending we are all just a bunch of humans trying to get by is silly. Geopolitical power struggles exist and pretending we are all some united people is silly. If it was in Germany's interest to put sanctions on the US, it would have. It has no such interest. We were close to military conflict in the Cold War too. But our efforts to spy on each other and obtain information about our opponents true intent was one of the ways that war was prevented. Nations spy on each other to find out what the other side is really planning and thinking. When Reagan was shot, many Russians back in Russia believed there would be a coup. It was only the people in the Russian embassy that knew that wouldn’t take place. Expect some response, but we are doing the exact same thing to them right now. And they know it. Its part of the game both sides play. Honestly though, it seems that the DNC fucked up yet again. If some random Bernie Sanders staffer can get DNC data, so can foreign hackers. They need to do a better job of securing their data. From the sounds of the article it was by no means exclusive to the DNC. There's pretty much no way a private organization can secure virtual data from a world power that wants it anyway unless they have a huge slush fund or specialize in cybersecurity.
Big organizations have to deal with literally dozens of cyber attacks every single day. A lot of those come from foreign nations. That goes double for nationally significant organizations like multinational corporations, national political organizations, massive public projects, etc. The fuckup is on the part of the DNC; every organization of consequence is under constant attack by Russia, China, Israel, Germany, France, random people who do it for fun, other nation states with real intelligence agencies, etc. Failing to secure your own data is a major fuckup.
The DNC isn't a mom and pop shop that can't be expected to defend itself against a foreign nation state. It's a large national organization with a massive staff and a lot of resources. They failed to do what they should have been able to do.
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Remember when Chris Christie used to be just a moderate putz, now he's this:
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I wonder if the government provides free assistance with security for such groups; not that US gov't cyber-security is all that good either.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
sure they fucked up with respect to russia, but that one is different from the bernie incident. bernie campaign had credentialed access but abused it to access parts they shouldn't have. should the dnc have kept campaigns credentials separate, sure. but they also have not had to deal with a craven campaign.
defense always rises with threats. in a rapidly evolving threat environment it's the follow-up safeguard that is the more important focus.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On June 15 2016 02:35 zlefin wrote:
I wonder if the government provides free assistance with security for such groups; not that US gov't cyber-security is all that good either.
Well part of what the NSA does is protect US interests against cybersecurity threats. It also does work with the DNC sometimes. I'd say that it is reckless of them if they don't help with data security. Of course, it doesn't help to give security help if the DNC acts stupidly.
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I'm guessing the DNC is decently protected against threats. Probably some staffer got hit by a phishing email and got stuff downloaded onto his computer.
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On June 15 2016 01:23 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2016 01:12 LegalLord wrote:On June 15 2016 00:54 Mohdoo wrote:On June 15 2016 00:45 ticklishmusic wrote:
Russian government hackers penetrated DNC, stole opposition research on Trump
Russian government hackers penetrated the computer network of the Democratic National Committee and gained access to the entire database of opposition research on GOP presidential candidate Donald Trump, according to committee officials and security experts who responded to the breach.
The intruders so thoroughly compromised the DNC’s system they also were able to read all e-mail and chat traffic, said DNC officials and the security experts.
The intrusion into the DNC was one of several targeting American political organizations. The networks of presidential candidates Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump were also targeted by Russian spies, as were the computers of some GOP political action committees, U.S. officials said. But details on those cases were not available.
Source There is no difference between doing this and breaking into a building and taking pictures of cabinets full of documents. This should be responded to with sanctions. I am really sick of shit not being taken seriously because someone used a computer to do it. Do we suddenly live in a world where espionage between two not-so-friendly nations doesn't happen? So we should just take the perspective that everyone is fucking everyone, so let's just let it slide? What incentive do we have to not use evidence of foul play to leverage our allies to weaken an enemy? We should be using this as much as we can.
Out of interest, what sanctions do you propose? And what do you mean by "leverage our allies"?
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On June 15 2016 02:35 oneofthem wrote:
sure they fucked up with respect to russia, but that one is different from the bernie incident. bernie campaign had credentialed access but abused it to access parts they shouldn't have. should the dnc have kept campaigns credentials separate, sure. but they also have not had to deal with a craven campaign.
defense always rises with threats. in a rapidly evolving threat environment it's the follow-up safeguard that is the more important focus.
This is hilarious.
I think I'll wait for the independent audit.
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On June 14 2016 03:21 SolaR- wrote:
Could the shooter been as effective with just pistols instead of an ar15? Obviously the magazines would be shorter and the bullets are a lower caliber. But couldn't you just carry several pistols with plenty of spare magazines. Pistols shoot in a semi auto fashion as well. So there wouldn't be much difference in that regard? I dont know.
Any magazine loaded pistol could have easily done comparable damage if the shooter was carrying enough spare magazines with him.
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Pistol rounds aren't as devestating as rifle rounds and he would have to reload the pistol more often, leaving him vulnerable more times.
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On June 15 2016 03:43 On_Slaught wrote:
Pistol rounds aren't as devestating as rifle rounds and he would have to reload the pistol more often, leaving him vulnerable more times.
Nah he wouldn't have to reload more often, you just take multiple pistols with you. On top, you can get extended mags.
You're right with the damage though - a rifle is certainly deadlier. Everyone trying to argue that it isn't, is a deliberate liar. Especially in packed crowds where a single round can and will easily hit and penetrate multiple people, whereas a pistol won't.
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United Kingdom13775 Posts
On June 15 2016 02:44 ticklishmusic wrote:
I'm guessing the DNC is decently protected against threats. Probably some staffer got hit by a phishing email and got stuff downloaded onto his computer.
Doesn't sound very secure. A large part of security is making sure that your employees don't act like morons and click a phishing link.
Also, the article makes it sound like the DNC has a systematic failure to prevent skilled hackers from stealing their data. That's pretty bad.
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"Look, we're led by a man that either is not tough, not smart, or he's got something else in mind. And the something else in mind — you know, people can't believe it...People cannot, they cannot believe that President Obama is acting the way he acts and can't even mention the words 'radical Islamic terrorism.' There's something going on. It's inconceivable. There's something going on."
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On June 15 2016 03:24 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On June 15 2016 02:35 oneofthem wrote:
sure they fucked up with respect to russia, but that one is different from the bernie incident. bernie campaign had credentialed access but abused it to access parts they shouldn't have. should the dnc have kept campaigns credentials separate, sure. but they also have not had to deal with a craven campaign.
defense always rises with threats. in a rapidly evolving threat environment it's the follow-up safeguard that is the more important focus. This is hilarious. I think I'll wait for the independent audit.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2015/dec/22/bernie-s/Sanders-take-Clinton-voter-data/
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EPT
