|
Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
|
|
On June 06 2016 23:38 Ghostcom wrote:
Who was mean?
No one. We are all just joking around about a pretty low key subject. No one is being deadly serious here.
|
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
the far left should be in mega panic mode as far as influencing the election goes.
basic problem is far left policies have no broad support, and most of the current sanders voter group is a feels and fashion thing. majority of youth support free trade, do have decent prospects for high paying jobs, and more devastatingly, most sanders voters like obama and approve of his policies. that most sanders voters don't even understand what they are voting for may be fortuitous for sanders so far, but without the enabling conditions the group is very vulnerable to divide and conquer.
when obama begins to campaign, he would be effective in peeling off all but the most hardcore leftists. if the leftists do act up at the convention or whatever, the far left would be even more isolated. attacking hillary has been effective so far because of the combination of lack of knowledge by the sanders voter base over actual substance and bad optics by hillary, but this formula is also vulnerable when the optics are turned. if hillary can have a positive moment bolstered by obama's positive image, animosity not supported by actual political convictions will fade. once obama can fracture the sanders herd, and the election is outside of 'left=better' territory of the primary, the far leftists present very little leverage, and their further acting out only makes a rightward move more appealing and also easier.
the best thing the democrats can do for the country is to take this opportunity and dumpster the far left entirely. work instead with moderate republicans and run on a message of governance and compromise. the romneys and jebs have a real dilemma not only because of trump but just looking at the general populism on both parties that damage some core political commitments. there is a lot of affinity between the DLC and this kind of republican. however, this sort of strategy is losing valuable time to the ongoing battle with leftists. hillary cannot pivot to the center without controlling the left, and without some pivot to the center there is no winning over the moderate republicans, and the upcoming negative campaign may close ranks on the right.
basically the choice is between the far left and suburban, culturally liberal, professional sort of republicans. there is no doubt that the latter is both more important electorally and also more sensible. it would be interesting to see what the DLC would do if, as i expect, the sanders group becomes even more radical. the far left is incapable of strategic patience even with imminent doom staring it in the face, so the response to being left in the desert again is more wailing and gnashing of teeth. this far left activity will serve as further sign to the center that it needs to actively seek a way forward without them. there will be some organizing effort in the center to defend some sort of viable governance from dangerous politics on both sides. whether this effort succeeds is another matter. if the electorate is made of policy and law types, this reconfiguration would come to pass as i see it. but the more leftist types and superpac fueled congressional radicalization present high friction. leftists may try to save their campy movement by attacking obama directly, spread more propaganda about corruption, basically anything that doesn't engage with the policy substance and hope more cultists join, but this would be really hard if obama is there and trump is on the other side doing something dumb. the window is now and closing and this is why the sanders people are panicking and going into high attack mode, the more actual hardcore conspiracy level nutjobs they capture, the more power they have in forestalling the complete annihilation of their movement.
not that the populist uprisings do not have legitimate gripes, but these gripes are not properly channeled to the right policies. leftists have traditionally been against trade, rather than being for redevelopment and reinvestment. rightwing populists have a moral panic sense of decline that is fueling nativism. the only way forward is to have a compromise between the populists and the actual world, with the latter framing a policy mix favoring increasing dynamism and equitable growth.
|
On June 06 2016 23:36 TheTenthDoc wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2016 23:32 Mohdoo wrote:On June 06 2016 23:29 TheTenthDoc wrote:On June 06 2016 22:41 Mohdoo wrote:On June 06 2016 21:59 TheTenthDoc wrote:On June 06 2016 16:40 CorsairHero wrote:
We?
Ramadan is LITERALLY a month of a calendar. So yes, we are all entering/beginning Ramadan. Like we all entered June, and like we all entered/began the Chinese New Year.\ I entered June. I will not be entering Ramadan because it is meaningless to me. Just because a large group of people is expressing their beliefs, it does not mean "we" are a part of it. I want nothing to do with Ramadan. I mean, it's a calendar month. It has nothing to do with beliefs beyond what people who don't know what it is think it does. The word for the month in that calendar is "Ramadan." We also begin Tammuz, Sivan, Μάρτιος, and the like. I mean if I was in Israel I wouldn't get upset about someone posting about beginning July. The title "Ramadan" is associated with a set of beliefs which I find to be disagreeable. I do not even slightly identify with Ramadan and do not recognize myself as entering into it. I am entering into an interval of time and I do not recognize the label of "Ramadan" being associated with it. On June 06 2016 23:32 Plansix wrote:
It comes down to being polite. The president represents everyone in the country. So we, collectively, as a nation enter the Ramadan. Much like the nation enters the Christmas season. I am not Jewish, but I have celebrated a number of Jewish with a good friend of mine and his family. If anything, the tweet reminded me to call a couple of our friends and find out what they are doing for Ramadan. Yeah, it's fine for a president/leader saying this because they are talking to the entire country and "we" means everyone for them. It is not the same situation for us. The title "before Christ" is associated with a set of beliefs I find to be disagreeable, but I won't complain about people saying we're entering a new decade in 2021. You aren't celebrating Ramadan, but saying you aren't entering it or beginning it is like saying you aren't starting June. It's just a factual statement, like "I'm breathing." Edit: I mean you're 100% within your rights to find the people who use the calendar disagreeable, there's nothing wrong with that
The beliefs, not the people. I do not identify with the set of beliefs associated with labeling that interval of time as "Ramadan". So I don't call it Ramadan.
|
On June 06 2016 23:56 oneofthem wrote:
the far left should be in mega panic mode as far as influencing the election goes.
basic problem is far left policies have no broad support, and most of the current sanders voter group is a feels and fashion thing. majority of youth support free trade, do have decent prospects for high paying jobs, and more devastatingly, most sanders voters like obama and approve of his policies. that most sanders voters don't even understand what they are voting for may be fortuitous for sanders so far, but without the enabling conditions the group is very vulnerable to divide and conquer.
when obama begins to campaign, he would be effective in peeling off all but the most hardcore leftists. if the leftists do act up at the convention or whatever, the far left would be even more isolated. attacking hillary has been effective so far because of the combination of lack of knowledge by the sanders voter base over actual substance and bad optics by hillary, but this formula is also vulnerable when the optics are turned. if hillary can have a positive moment bolstered by obama's positive image, animosity not supported by actual political convictions will fade. once obama can fracture the sanders herd, and the election is outside of 'left=better' territory of the primary, the far leftists present very little leverage, and their further acting out only makes a rightward move more appealing and also easier.
the best thing the democrats can do for the country is to take this opportunity and dumpster the far left entirely. work instead with moderate republicans and run on a message of governance and compromise. the romneys and jebs have a real dilemma not only because of trump but just looking at the general populism on both parties that damage some core political commitments. there is a lot of affinity between the DLC and this kind of republican. however, this sort of strategy is losing valuable time to the ongoing battle with leftists. hillary cannot pivot to the center without controlling the left, and without some pivot to the center there is no winning over the moderate republicans, and the upcoming negative campaign may close ranks on the right.
basically the choice is between the far left and suburban, culturally liberal, professional sort of republicans. there is no doubt that the latter is both more important electorally and also more sensible. it would be interesting to see what the DLC would do if, as i expect, the sanders group becomes even more radical. the far left is incapable of strategic patience even with imminent doom staring it in the face, so the response to being left in the desert again is more wailing and gnashing of teeth. this far left activity will serve as further sign to the center that it needs to actively seek a way forward without them. there will be some organizing effort in the center to defend some sort of viable governance from dangerous politics on both sides. whether this effort succeeds is another matter. if the electorate is made of policy and law types, this reconfiguration would come to pass as i see it. but the more leftist types and superpac fueled congressional radicalization present high friction.
not that the populist uprisings do not have legitimate gripes, but these gripes are not properly channeled to the right policies. leftists have traditionally been against trade, rather than being for redevelopment and reinvestment. rightwing populists have a moral panic sense of decline that is fueling nativism. the only way forward is to have a compromise between the populists and the actual world, with the latter framing a policy mix favoring increasing dynamism and equitable growth.
double down on the third way essentially?
|
On June 06 2016 22:27 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2016 22:19 Rebs wrote:On June 06 2016 21:59 TheTenthDoc wrote:Ramadan is LITERALLY a month of a calendar. So yes, we are all entering/beginning Ramadan. Like we all entered June, and like we all entered/began the Chinese New Year. Expect people to not even exercise the basic googling to understand this though! Including someone running for President of the United States who has commented on Sharia Law without putting even an ounce of effort into learning what it is (hint: there are multiple interpretations of it). Actually Sharia Law in of itself is an interpretation, there is nothing divine about it, most of which are agenda driven, and most of the tennets are bullshit political power plays from the middle ages that we are now stuck with and its purported infallibility + Show Spoiler +(regardless of what school you follow) coz Saudi Arabia. Also why is being in a picture with Yasser Arafat a big deal ? He was a known terrorist supporter, but also was the dude you needed to meet with to try to work towards peace in Israel. And peace talks are really weird if you refuse smile in a photo or treat the person like a leaper. “I am here to talk about peace, but no photos please. Just in case this doesn’t work out and we can’t make a deal. My wife might want to run for president in 2008 and 2016.”
if you are talking about Al Aqsa, then ones mans terrorist is another mans... yeah...That was more war than terrorism though. Especially when you compare him to Ariel Sharon who was literally a butcher. Pretty sure lots of people took pictures with him.
+ Show Spoiler +
Other than that most of his dealings with terrorists werent support as much as arrangements to stay relevant. Which I guess you could call support but really his biggest issue was that he was pretty corrupt and let Israel do whatever they wanted more than his links to terrorists. He played whatever he wanted to play.
|
On June 07 2016 00:05 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 06 2016 23:36 TheTenthDoc wrote:On June 06 2016 23:32 Mohdoo wrote:On June 06 2016 23:29 TheTenthDoc wrote:On June 06 2016 22:41 Mohdoo wrote:On June 06 2016 21:59 TheTenthDoc wrote:Ramadan is LITERALLY a month of a calendar. So yes, we are all entering/beginning Ramadan. Like we all entered June, and like we all entered/began the Chinese New Year.\ I entered June. I will not be entering Ramadan because it is meaningless to me. Just because a large group of people is expressing their beliefs, it does not mean "we" are a part of it. I want nothing to do with Ramadan. I mean, it's a calendar month. It has nothing to do with beliefs beyond what people who don't know what it is think it does. The word for the month in that calendar is "Ramadan." We also begin Tammuz, Sivan, Μάρτιος, and the like. I mean if I was in Israel I wouldn't get upset about someone posting about beginning July. The title "Ramadan" is associated with a set of beliefs which I find to be disagreeable. I do not even slightly identify with Ramadan and do not recognize myself as entering into it. I am entering into an interval of time and I do not recognize the label of "Ramadan" being associated with it. On June 06 2016 23:32 Plansix wrote:
It comes down to being polite. The president represents everyone in the country. So we, collectively, as a nation enter the Ramadan. Much like the nation enters the Christmas season. I am not Jewish, but I have celebrated a number of Jewish with a good friend of mine and his family. If anything, the tweet reminded me to call a couple of our friends and find out what they are doing for Ramadan. Yeah, it's fine for a president/leader saying this because they are talking to the entire country and "we" means everyone for them. It is not the same situation for us. The title "before Christ" is associated with a set of beliefs I find to be disagreeable, but I won't complain about people saying we're entering a new decade in 2021. You aren't celebrating Ramadan, but saying you aren't entering it or beginning it is like saying you aren't starting June. It's just a factual statement, like "I'm breathing." Edit: I mean you're 100% within your rights to find the people who use the calendar disagreeable, there's nothing wrong with that The beliefs, not the people. I do not identify with the set of beliefs associated with labeling that interval of time as "Ramadan". So I don't call it Ramadan.
But you're still entering into the month of Ramadan, whether you like it or use that term or not. The reference to June is pretty apt. Hillary was using "we" for a reason that made perfect sense.
It's nice to have a silly semantics argument every once in a while, I suppose 
|
On June 07 2016 00:07 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2016 00:05 Mohdoo wrote:On June 06 2016 23:36 TheTenthDoc wrote:On June 06 2016 23:32 Mohdoo wrote:On June 06 2016 23:29 TheTenthDoc wrote:On June 06 2016 22:41 Mohdoo wrote:On June 06 2016 21:59 TheTenthDoc wrote:Ramadan is LITERALLY a month of a calendar. So yes, we are all entering/beginning Ramadan. Like we all entered June, and like we all entered/began the Chinese New Year.\ I entered June. I will not be entering Ramadan because it is meaningless to me. Just because a large group of people is expressing their beliefs, it does not mean "we" are a part of it. I want nothing to do with Ramadan. I mean, it's a calendar month. It has nothing to do with beliefs beyond what people who don't know what it is think it does. The word for the month in that calendar is "Ramadan." We also begin Tammuz, Sivan, Μάρτιος, and the like. I mean if I was in Israel I wouldn't get upset about someone posting about beginning July. The title "Ramadan" is associated with a set of beliefs which I find to be disagreeable. I do not even slightly identify with Ramadan and do not recognize myself as entering into it. I am entering into an interval of time and I do not recognize the label of "Ramadan" being associated with it. On June 06 2016 23:32 Plansix wrote:
It comes down to being polite. The president represents everyone in the country. So we, collectively, as a nation enter the Ramadan. Much like the nation enters the Christmas season. I am not Jewish, but I have celebrated a number of Jewish with a good friend of mine and his family. If anything, the tweet reminded me to call a couple of our friends and find out what they are doing for Ramadan. Yeah, it's fine for a president/leader saying this because they are talking to the entire country and "we" means everyone for them. It is not the same situation for us. The title "before Christ" is associated with a set of beliefs I find to be disagreeable, but I won't complain about people saying we're entering a new decade in 2021. You aren't celebrating Ramadan, but saying you aren't entering it or beginning it is like saying you aren't starting June. It's just a factual statement, like "I'm breathing." Edit: I mean you're 100% within your rights to find the people who use the calendar disagreeable, there's nothing wrong with that The beliefs, not the people. I do not identify with the set of beliefs associated with labeling that interval of time as "Ramadan". So I don't call it Ramadan. But you're still entering into the month of Ramadan, whether you like it or use that term or not. The reference to June is pretty apt. Hillary was using "we" for a reason that made perfect sense. It's nice to have a silly semantics argument every once in a while, I suppose
ikr, Calenders are calenders. Whether you ascribe to it or not a certain calendar says its Ramadan,
Also I didnt even realise it was Ramadan, thanks Hillary.
|
On June 07 2016 00:07 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2016 00:05 Mohdoo wrote:On June 06 2016 23:36 TheTenthDoc wrote:On June 06 2016 23:32 Mohdoo wrote:On June 06 2016 23:29 TheTenthDoc wrote:On June 06 2016 22:41 Mohdoo wrote:On June 06 2016 21:59 TheTenthDoc wrote:Ramadan is LITERALLY a month of a calendar. So yes, we are all entering/beginning Ramadan. Like we all entered June, and like we all entered/began the Chinese New Year.\ I entered June. I will not be entering Ramadan because it is meaningless to me. Just because a large group of people is expressing their beliefs, it does not mean "we" are a part of it. I want nothing to do with Ramadan. I mean, it's a calendar month. It has nothing to do with beliefs beyond what people who don't know what it is think it does. The word for the month in that calendar is "Ramadan." We also begin Tammuz, Sivan, Μάρτιος, and the like. I mean if I was in Israel I wouldn't get upset about someone posting about beginning July. The title "Ramadan" is associated with a set of beliefs which I find to be disagreeable. I do not even slightly identify with Ramadan and do not recognize myself as entering into it. I am entering into an interval of time and I do not recognize the label of "Ramadan" being associated with it. On June 06 2016 23:32 Plansix wrote:
It comes down to being polite. The president represents everyone in the country. So we, collectively, as a nation enter the Ramadan. Much like the nation enters the Christmas season. I am not Jewish, but I have celebrated a number of Jewish with a good friend of mine and his family. If anything, the tweet reminded me to call a couple of our friends and find out what they are doing for Ramadan. Yeah, it's fine for a president/leader saying this because they are talking to the entire country and "we" means everyone for them. It is not the same situation for us. The title "before Christ" is associated with a set of beliefs I find to be disagreeable, but I won't complain about people saying we're entering a new decade in 2021. You aren't celebrating Ramadan, but saying you aren't entering it or beginning it is like saying you aren't starting June. It's just a factual statement, like "I'm breathing." Edit: I mean you're 100% within your rights to find the people who use the calendar disagreeable, there's nothing wrong with that The beliefs, not the people. I do not identify with the set of beliefs associated with labeling that interval of time as "Ramadan". So I don't call it Ramadan. But you're still entering into the month of Ramadan, whether you like it or use that term or not. The reference to June is pretty apt. Hillary was using "we" for a reason that made perfect sense. It's nice to have a silly semantics argument every once in a while, I suppose
Sure, and we are also entering into the month of "taco salad" because I named it taco salad just now. It is now *also* "sausages that are cooked perfectly" month because I said so. You may choose to see this month as the month of taco salad if you want, or you may not. It all depends on how you view the world. Perhaps sausages that are cooked perfectly is more up your alley. You can call it whatever you want, but either way, we are entering into the month of taco salad as viewed by some people.
|
On June 07 2016 00:07 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2016 00:05 Mohdoo wrote:On June 06 2016 23:36 TheTenthDoc wrote:On June 06 2016 23:32 Mohdoo wrote:On June 06 2016 23:29 TheTenthDoc wrote:On June 06 2016 22:41 Mohdoo wrote:On June 06 2016 21:59 TheTenthDoc wrote:Ramadan is LITERALLY a month of a calendar. So yes, we are all entering/beginning Ramadan. Like we all entered June, and like we all entered/began the Chinese New Year.\ I entered June. I will not be entering Ramadan because it is meaningless to me. Just because a large group of people is expressing their beliefs, it does not mean "we" are a part of it. I want nothing to do with Ramadan. I mean, it's a calendar month. It has nothing to do with beliefs beyond what people who don't know what it is think it does. The word for the month in that calendar is "Ramadan." We also begin Tammuz, Sivan, Μάρτιος, and the like. I mean if I was in Israel I wouldn't get upset about someone posting about beginning July. The title "Ramadan" is associated with a set of beliefs which I find to be disagreeable. I do not even slightly identify with Ramadan and do not recognize myself as entering into it. I am entering into an interval of time and I do not recognize the label of "Ramadan" being associated with it. On June 06 2016 23:32 Plansix wrote:
It comes down to being polite. The president represents everyone in the country. So we, collectively, as a nation enter the Ramadan. Much like the nation enters the Christmas season. I am not Jewish, but I have celebrated a number of Jewish with a good friend of mine and his family. If anything, the tweet reminded me to call a couple of our friends and find out what they are doing for Ramadan. Yeah, it's fine for a president/leader saying this because they are talking to the entire country and "we" means everyone for them. It is not the same situation for us. The title "before Christ" is associated with a set of beliefs I find to be disagreeable, but I won't complain about people saying we're entering a new decade in 2021. You aren't celebrating Ramadan, but saying you aren't entering it or beginning it is like saying you aren't starting June. It's just a factual statement, like "I'm breathing." Edit: I mean you're 100% within your rights to find the people who use the calendar disagreeable, there's nothing wrong with that The beliefs, not the people. I do not identify with the set of beliefs associated with labeling that interval of time as "Ramadan". So I don't call it Ramadan. But you're still entering into the month of Ramadan, whether you like it or use that term or not. The reference to June is pretty apt. Hillary was using "we" for a reason that made perfect sense. It's nice to have a silly semitics argument every once in a while, I suppose
FTFY
|
On June 07 2016 00:17 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2016 00:07 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On June 07 2016 00:05 Mohdoo wrote:On June 06 2016 23:36 TheTenthDoc wrote:On June 06 2016 23:32 Mohdoo wrote:On June 06 2016 23:29 TheTenthDoc wrote:On June 06 2016 22:41 Mohdoo wrote:On June 06 2016 21:59 TheTenthDoc wrote:Ramadan is LITERALLY a month of a calendar. So yes, we are all entering/beginning Ramadan. Like we all entered June, and like we all entered/began the Chinese New Year.\ I entered June. I will not be entering Ramadan because it is meaningless to me. Just because a large group of people is expressing their beliefs, it does not mean "we" are a part of it. I want nothing to do with Ramadan. I mean, it's a calendar month. It has nothing to do with beliefs beyond what people who don't know what it is think it does. The word for the month in that calendar is "Ramadan." We also begin Tammuz, Sivan, Μάρτιος, and the like. I mean if I was in Israel I wouldn't get upset about someone posting about beginning July. The title "Ramadan" is associated with a set of beliefs which I find to be disagreeable. I do not even slightly identify with Ramadan and do not recognize myself as entering into it. I am entering into an interval of time and I do not recognize the label of "Ramadan" being associated with it. On June 06 2016 23:32 Plansix wrote:
It comes down to being polite. The president represents everyone in the country. So we, collectively, as a nation enter the Ramadan. Much like the nation enters the Christmas season. I am not Jewish, but I have celebrated a number of Jewish with a good friend of mine and his family. If anything, the tweet reminded me to call a couple of our friends and find out what they are doing for Ramadan. Yeah, it's fine for a president/leader saying this because they are talking to the entire country and "we" means everyone for them. It is not the same situation for us. The title "before Christ" is associated with a set of beliefs I find to be disagreeable, but I won't complain about people saying we're entering a new decade in 2021. You aren't celebrating Ramadan, but saying you aren't entering it or beginning it is like saying you aren't starting June. It's just a factual statement, like "I'm breathing." Edit: I mean you're 100% within your rights to find the people who use the calendar disagreeable, there's nothing wrong with that The beliefs, not the people. I do not identify with the set of beliefs associated with labeling that interval of time as "Ramadan". So I don't call it Ramadan. But you're still entering into the month of Ramadan, whether you like it or use that term or not. The reference to June is pretty apt. Hillary was using "we" for a reason that made perfect sense. It's nice to have a silly semantics argument every once in a while, I suppose Sure, and we are also entering into the month of "taco salad" because I named it taco salad just now. It is now *also* "sausages that are cooked perfectly" month because I said so. You may choose to see this month as the month of taco salad if you want, or you may not. It all depends on how you view the world. Perhaps sausages that are cooked perfectly is more up your alley. You can call it whatever you want, but either way, we are entering into the month of taco salad as viewed by some people.
Now I think you're just purposely being obstinate with such an obvious strawman, but feel free to create your own calendar with months named after foods. I'm not offended by it
On June 07 2016 00:21 ticklishmusic wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2016 00:07 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On June 07 2016 00:05 Mohdoo wrote:On June 06 2016 23:36 TheTenthDoc wrote:On June 06 2016 23:32 Mohdoo wrote:On June 06 2016 23:29 TheTenthDoc wrote:On June 06 2016 22:41 Mohdoo wrote:On June 06 2016 21:59 TheTenthDoc wrote:Ramadan is LITERALLY a month of a calendar. So yes, we are all entering/beginning Ramadan. Like we all entered June, and like we all entered/began the Chinese New Year.\ I entered June. I will not be entering Ramadan because it is meaningless to me. Just because a large group of people is expressing their beliefs, it does not mean "we" are a part of it. I want nothing to do with Ramadan. I mean, it's a calendar month. It has nothing to do with beliefs beyond what people who don't know what it is think it does. The word for the month in that calendar is "Ramadan." We also begin Tammuz, Sivan, Μάρτιος, and the like. I mean if I was in Israel I wouldn't get upset about someone posting about beginning July. The title "Ramadan" is associated with a set of beliefs which I find to be disagreeable. I do not even slightly identify with Ramadan and do not recognize myself as entering into it. I am entering into an interval of time and I do not recognize the label of "Ramadan" being associated with it. On June 06 2016 23:32 Plansix wrote:
It comes down to being polite. The president represents everyone in the country. So we, collectively, as a nation enter the Ramadan. Much like the nation enters the Christmas season. I am not Jewish, but I have celebrated a number of Jewish with a good friend of mine and his family. If anything, the tweet reminded me to call a couple of our friends and find out what they are doing for Ramadan. Yeah, it's fine for a president/leader saying this because they are talking to the entire country and "we" means everyone for them. It is not the same situation for us. The title "before Christ" is associated with a set of beliefs I find to be disagreeable, but I won't complain about people saying we're entering a new decade in 2021. You aren't celebrating Ramadan, but saying you aren't entering it or beginning it is like saying you aren't starting June. It's just a factual statement, like "I'm breathing." Edit: I mean you're 100% within your rights to find the people who use the calendar disagreeable, there's nothing wrong with that The beliefs, not the people. I do not identify with the set of beliefs associated with labeling that interval of time as "Ramadan". So I don't call it Ramadan. But you're still entering into the month of Ramadan, whether you like it or use that term or not. The reference to June is pretty apt. Hillary was using "we" for a reason that made perfect sense. It's nice to have a silly semitics argument every once in a while, I suppose FTFY
You win.
|
On June 06 2016 13:23 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Someone should really tell Bill Clinton to shut up...
Or, you know, alternatively, tell the protesters who were shouting at his rally and interrupting him non-stop to shut up. He was pretty civil, too:
"I don't have anything bad to say about the people that are shouting against Hillary. I think at least we've had the right debate in the Democratic primary," Clinton said.
In other news: Obama's ready for the general election
|
The entire thing has been quite illustrative of the GOP's endless crusade against Hillary Clinton.
The Benghazi Committee’s Dead End
[...] The Benghazi committee, which was set up in May 2014, has been operational for longer than the 9/11 Commission was. It has dragged on longer than congressional investigations into the attack on Pearl Harbor, the assassination of President Kennedy, Watergate, the Iran-contra scandal, the 1983 bombing that killed 241 American service members in Beirut and the response to Hurricane Katrina.
The committee has spent nearly $7 million looking into an incident that had already been the subject of an independent investigation commissioned by the State Department and nine reports issued by seven other congressional committees. Those reviews faulted the federal government for failing to provide proper security for the American ambassador in Libya and three of his colleagues who were killed, but found no evidence of a cover-up or gross negligence by Mrs. Clinton.
Representative Elijah Cummings, the ranking Democrat on the committee, said the exercise showed Congress at its worst. “If you want a case study of why people are frustrated with government, this investigation is it,” said Mr. Cummings, who, along with a handful of Democrats, has remained on the committee to monitor what they regard as a partisan crusade. “They see all this effort, all this money, a budget that is endless, addressing issues that have already been addressed.”
Source
|
On June 07 2016 00:25 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2016 00:17 Mohdoo wrote:On June 07 2016 00:07 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On June 07 2016 00:05 Mohdoo wrote:On June 06 2016 23:36 TheTenthDoc wrote:On June 06 2016 23:32 Mohdoo wrote:On June 06 2016 23:29 TheTenthDoc wrote:On June 06 2016 22:41 Mohdoo wrote:On June 06 2016 21:59 TheTenthDoc wrote:Ramadan is LITERALLY a month of a calendar. So yes, we are all entering/beginning Ramadan. Like we all entered June, and like we all entered/began the Chinese New Year.\ I entered June. I will not be entering Ramadan because it is meaningless to me. Just because a large group of people is expressing their beliefs, it does not mean "we" are a part of it. I want nothing to do with Ramadan. I mean, it's a calendar month. It has nothing to do with beliefs beyond what people who don't know what it is think it does. The word for the month in that calendar is "Ramadan." We also begin Tammuz, Sivan, Μάρτιος, and the like. I mean if I was in Israel I wouldn't get upset about someone posting about beginning July. The title "Ramadan" is associated with a set of beliefs which I find to be disagreeable. I do not even slightly identify with Ramadan and do not recognize myself as entering into it. I am entering into an interval of time and I do not recognize the label of "Ramadan" being associated with it. On June 06 2016 23:32 Plansix wrote:
It comes down to being polite. The president represents everyone in the country. So we, collectively, as a nation enter the Ramadan. Much like the nation enters the Christmas season. I am not Jewish, but I have celebrated a number of Jewish with a good friend of mine and his family. If anything, the tweet reminded me to call a couple of our friends and find out what they are doing for Ramadan. Yeah, it's fine for a president/leader saying this because they are talking to the entire country and "we" means everyone for them. It is not the same situation for us. The title "before Christ" is associated with a set of beliefs I find to be disagreeable, but I won't complain about people saying we're entering a new decade in 2021. You aren't celebrating Ramadan, but saying you aren't entering it or beginning it is like saying you aren't starting June. It's just a factual statement, like "I'm breathing." Edit: I mean you're 100% within your rights to find the people who use the calendar disagreeable, there's nothing wrong with that The beliefs, not the people. I do not identify with the set of beliefs associated with labeling that interval of time as "Ramadan". So I don't call it Ramadan. But you're still entering into the month of Ramadan, whether you like it or use that term or not. The reference to June is pretty apt. Hillary was using "we" for a reason that made perfect sense. It's nice to have a silly semantics argument every once in a while, I suppose Sure, and we are also entering into the month of "taco salad" because I named it taco salad just now. It is now *also* "sausages that are cooked perfectly" month because I said so. You may choose to see this month as the month of taco salad if you want, or you may not. It all depends on how you view the world. Perhaps sausages that are cooked perfectly is more up your alley. You can call it whatever you want, but either way, we are entering into the month of taco salad as viewed by some people. Now I think you're just purposely being obstinate with such an obvious strawman, but feel free to create your own calendar with months named after foods. I'm not offended by it
I'm not being obstinate. I am pointing out that the significance associated with an interval of time is entirely dependent on how much someone identifies with or recognizes the significance. Both are just meaningless labels unless someone is actively recognizing the distinctions between those intervals of time and others.
You don't celebrate my brother's birthday. It doesn't mean my brother's birthday doesn't exist to anyone, but it does, effectively, not exist to you. When you remove the significance of a designation, it is simply an assembly of characters. I am entering Ramadan in much the same way that I celebrate your birthday. Sure, it still exists to some people, but I am not a part of the "we" that is celebrating it. You don't celebrate my birthday (you should  ), but my birthday still exists to *me*. I would argue my birthday does not even exist for you (other than my cute little TL icon I get).
|
On June 07 2016 00:45 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2016 00:25 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On June 07 2016 00:17 Mohdoo wrote:On June 07 2016 00:07 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On June 07 2016 00:05 Mohdoo wrote:On June 06 2016 23:36 TheTenthDoc wrote:On June 06 2016 23:32 Mohdoo wrote:On June 06 2016 23:29 TheTenthDoc wrote:On June 06 2016 22:41 Mohdoo wrote:On June 06 2016 21:59 TheTenthDoc wrote:
[quote]
Ramadan is LITERALLY a month of a calendar.
So yes, we are all entering/beginning Ramadan. Like we all entered June, and like we all entered/began the Chinese New Year.\ I entered June. I will not be entering Ramadan because it is meaningless to me. Just because a large group of people is expressing their beliefs, it does not mean "we" are a part of it. I want nothing to do with Ramadan. I mean, it's a calendar month. It has nothing to do with beliefs beyond what people who don't know what it is think it does. The word for the month in that calendar is "Ramadan." We also begin Tammuz, Sivan, Μάρτιος, and the like. I mean if I was in Israel I wouldn't get upset about someone posting about beginning July. The title "Ramadan" is associated with a set of beliefs which I find to be disagreeable. I do not even slightly identify with Ramadan and do not recognize myself as entering into it. I am entering into an interval of time and I do not recognize the label of "Ramadan" being associated with it. On June 06 2016 23:32 Plansix wrote:
It comes down to being polite. The president represents everyone in the country. So we, collectively, as a nation enter the Ramadan. Much like the nation enters the Christmas season. I am not Jewish, but I have celebrated a number of Jewish with a good friend of mine and his family. If anything, the tweet reminded me to call a couple of our friends and find out what they are doing for Ramadan. Yeah, it's fine for a president/leader saying this because they are talking to the entire country and "we" means everyone for them. It is not the same situation for us. The title "before Christ" is associated with a set of beliefs I find to be disagreeable, but I won't complain about people saying we're entering a new decade in 2021. You aren't celebrating Ramadan, but saying you aren't entering it or beginning it is like saying you aren't starting June. It's just a factual statement, like "I'm breathing." Edit: I mean you're 100% within your rights to find the people who use the calendar disagreeable, there's nothing wrong with that The beliefs, not the people. I do not identify with the set of beliefs associated with labeling that interval of time as "Ramadan". So I don't call it Ramadan. But you're still entering into the month of Ramadan, whether you like it or use that term or not. The reference to June is pretty apt. Hillary was using "we" for a reason that made perfect sense. It's nice to have a silly semantics argument every once in a while, I suppose Sure, and we are also entering into the month of "taco salad" because I named it taco salad just now. It is now *also* "sausages that are cooked perfectly" month because I said so. You may choose to see this month as the month of taco salad if you want, or you may not. It all depends on how you view the world. Perhaps sausages that are cooked perfectly is more up your alley. You can call it whatever you want, but either way, we are entering into the month of taco salad as viewed by some people. Now I think you're just purposely being obstinate with such an obvious strawman, but feel free to create your own calendar with months named after foods. I'm not offended by it I'm not being obstinate. I am pointing out that the significance associated with an interval of time is entirely dependent on how much someone identifies with or recognizes the significance. Both are just meaningless labels unless someone is actively recognizing the distinctions between those intervals of time and others. You don't celebrate my brother's birthday. It doesn't mean my brother's birthday doesn't exist to anyone, but it does, effectively, not exist to you.
If you told me "Today is my brother's birthday" I would never say No it isn't. (Assuming it's factually true.) That's the point. Even if I don't celebrate it, it still is.
|
On June 07 2016 00:51 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2016 00:45 Mohdoo wrote:On June 07 2016 00:25 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On June 07 2016 00:17 Mohdoo wrote:On June 07 2016 00:07 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On June 07 2016 00:05 Mohdoo wrote:On June 06 2016 23:36 TheTenthDoc wrote:On June 06 2016 23:32 Mohdoo wrote:On June 06 2016 23:29 TheTenthDoc wrote:On June 06 2016 22:41 Mohdoo wrote:
[quote]
I entered June. I will not be entering Ramadan because it is meaningless to me. Just because a large group of people is expressing their beliefs, it does not mean "we" are a part of it. I want nothing to do with Ramadan. I mean, it's a calendar month. It has nothing to do with beliefs beyond what people who don't know what it is think it does. The word for the month in that calendar is "Ramadan." We also begin Tammuz, Sivan, Μάρτιος, and the like. I mean if I was in Israel I wouldn't get upset about someone posting about beginning July. The title "Ramadan" is associated with a set of beliefs which I find to be disagreeable. I do not even slightly identify with Ramadan and do not recognize myself as entering into it. I am entering into an interval of time and I do not recognize the label of "Ramadan" being associated with it. On June 06 2016 23:32 Plansix wrote:
It comes down to being polite. The president represents everyone in the country. So we, collectively, as a nation enter the Ramadan. Much like the nation enters the Christmas season. I am not Jewish, but I have celebrated a number of Jewish with a good friend of mine and his family. If anything, the tweet reminded me to call a couple of our friends and find out what they are doing for Ramadan. Yeah, it's fine for a president/leader saying this because they are talking to the entire country and "we" means everyone for them. It is not the same situation for us. The title "before Christ" is associated with a set of beliefs I find to be disagreeable, but I won't complain about people saying we're entering a new decade in 2021. You aren't celebrating Ramadan, but saying you aren't entering it or beginning it is like saying you aren't starting June. It's just a factual statement, like "I'm breathing." Edit: I mean you're 100% within your rights to find the people who use the calendar disagreeable, there's nothing wrong with that The beliefs, not the people. I do not identify with the set of beliefs associated with labeling that interval of time as "Ramadan". So I don't call it Ramadan. But you're still entering into the month of Ramadan, whether you like it or use that term or not. The reference to June is pretty apt. Hillary was using "we" for a reason that made perfect sense. It's nice to have a silly semantics argument every once in a while, I suppose Sure, and we are also entering into the month of "taco salad" because I named it taco salad just now. It is now *also* "sausages that are cooked perfectly" month because I said so. You may choose to see this month as the month of taco salad if you want, or you may not. It all depends on how you view the world. Perhaps sausages that are cooked perfectly is more up your alley. You can call it whatever you want, but either way, we are entering into the month of taco salad as viewed by some people. Now I think you're just purposely being obstinate with such an obvious strawman, but feel free to create your own calendar with months named after foods. I'm not offended by it I'm not being obstinate. I am pointing out that the significance associated with an interval of time is entirely dependent on how much someone identifies with or recognizes the significance. Both are just meaningless labels unless someone is actively recognizing the distinctions between those intervals of time and others. You don't celebrate my brother's birthday. It doesn't mean my brother's birthday doesn't exist to anyone, but it does, effectively, not exist to you. If you told me "Today is my brother's birthday" I would never say No it isn't. (Assuming it's factually true.) That's the point. Even if I don't celebrate it, it still is.
Anyways, not really a debate worth having
|
On June 07 2016 00:51 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On June 07 2016 00:45 Mohdoo wrote:On June 07 2016 00:25 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On June 07 2016 00:17 Mohdoo wrote:On June 07 2016 00:07 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On June 07 2016 00:05 Mohdoo wrote:On June 06 2016 23:36 TheTenthDoc wrote:On June 06 2016 23:32 Mohdoo wrote:On June 06 2016 23:29 TheTenthDoc wrote:On June 06 2016 22:41 Mohdoo wrote:
[quote]
I entered June. I will not be entering Ramadan because it is meaningless to me. Just because a large group of people is expressing their beliefs, it does not mean "we" are a part of it. I want nothing to do with Ramadan. I mean, it's a calendar month. It has nothing to do with beliefs beyond what people who don't know what it is think it does. The word for the month in that calendar is "Ramadan." We also begin Tammuz, Sivan, Μάρτιος, and the like. I mean if I was in Israel I wouldn't get upset about someone posting about beginning July. The title "Ramadan" is associated with a set of beliefs which I find to be disagreeable. I do not even slightly identify with Ramadan and do not recognize myself as entering into it. I am entering into an interval of time and I do not recognize the label of "Ramadan" being associated with it. On June 06 2016 23:32 Plansix wrote:
It comes down to being polite. The president represents everyone in the country. So we, collectively, as a nation enter the Ramadan. Much like the nation enters the Christmas season. I am not Jewish, but I have celebrated a number of Jewish with a good friend of mine and his family. If anything, the tweet reminded me to call a couple of our friends and find out what they are doing for Ramadan. Yeah, it's fine for a president/leader saying this because they are talking to the entire country and "we" means everyone for them. It is not the same situation for us. The title "before Christ" is associated with a set of beliefs I find to be disagreeable, but I won't complain about people saying we're entering a new decade in 2021. You aren't celebrating Ramadan, but saying you aren't entering it or beginning it is like saying you aren't starting June. It's just a factual statement, like "I'm breathing." Edit: I mean you're 100% within your rights to find the people who use the calendar disagreeable, there's nothing wrong with that The beliefs, not the people. I do not identify with the set of beliefs associated with labeling that interval of time as "Ramadan". So I don't call it Ramadan. But you're still entering into the month of Ramadan, whether you like it or use that term or not. The reference to June is pretty apt. Hillary was using "we" for a reason that made perfect sense. It's nice to have a silly semantics argument every once in a while, I suppose Sure, and we are also entering into the month of "taco salad" because I named it taco salad just now. It is now *also* "sausages that are cooked perfectly" month because I said so. You may choose to see this month as the month of taco salad if you want, or you may not. It all depends on how you view the world. Perhaps sausages that are cooked perfectly is more up your alley. You can call it whatever you want, but either way, we are entering into the month of taco salad as viewed by some people. Now I think you're just purposely being obstinate with such an obvious strawman, but feel free to create your own calendar with months named after foods. I'm not offended by it I'm not being obstinate. I am pointing out that the significance associated with an interval of time is entirely dependent on how much someone identifies with or recognizes the significance. Both are just meaningless labels unless someone is actively recognizing the distinctions between those intervals of time and others. You don't celebrate my brother's birthday. It doesn't mean my brother's birthday doesn't exist to anyone, but it does, effectively, not exist to you. If you told me "Today is my brother's birthday" I would never say No it isn't. (Assuming it's factually true.) That's the point. Even if I don't celebrate it, it still is.
I agree with this. I think we are arguing two different things. Imagine that, two people on TL talking past each other
|
One more day until Bernie's finished.
|
|
|
Bad times for the US. Having to choose between Trump and Hillary... I'm sorry.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
