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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up! NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action. |
On April 12 2016 06:13 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2016 06:03 Jaaaaasper wrote:On April 12 2016 05:51 farvacola wrote:You will all be pleased to hear that one of those people being arrested in front of Congress is Samizdat's mother  This explains a lot. I'm really not liking the overflow from memes into actual claims of trump being a fascist. Yeah hes a moron and a terrible candidate, but hes not a fascist. Of course not. He's a demagogue, though, and I particularly like this characterization: Show nested quote +Griffin, who is a professor of history and political theory at Oxford Brookes University, puts it best: "You can be a total xenophobic racist male chauvinist bastard and still not be a fascist." - source
I don't agree with some stuff in the article. Trump isn't an 'arch invidividualist', I think he might be the most collectivist Republican in quite a while actually. He also doesn't seem to care a lot about democracy, at least if we're talking about how every institution works and what its place is in the system as a whole. Obviously nobody is accusing him of being literally Hitler, but he seems kinda proto fascist-ish
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On April 12 2016 06:23 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2016 06:13 Acrofales wrote:On April 12 2016 06:03 Jaaaaasper wrote:On April 12 2016 05:51 farvacola wrote:You will all be pleased to hear that one of those people being arrested in front of Congress is Samizdat's mother This explains a lot. I'm really not liking the overflow from memes into actual claims of trump being a fascist. Yeah hes a moron and a terrible candidate, but hes not a fascist. Of course not. He's a demagogue, though, and I particularly like this characterization: Griffin, who is a professor of history and political theory at Oxford Brookes University, puts it best: "You can be a total xenophobic racist male chauvinist bastard and still not be a fascist." - source I don't agree with some stuff in the article. Trump isn't an 'arch invidividualist', I think he might be the most collectivist Republican in quite a while actually. He also doesn't seem to care a lot about democracy, at least if we're talking about how every institution works and what its place is in the system as a whole. Obviously nobody is accusing him of being literally Hitler, but he seems kinda proto fascist-ish
To quote the West Wing:
"Do I look like Joe McCarthy to you, Toby?"
"No, sir. Nobody ever looks like Joe McCarthy. That's how they get in the door in the first place."
I don’t believe Trump is Hilter, there is zero chance he will be good. I don't think he will be able to destroy the country, but like McCarthy, I bet he will be able to destroy a lot of lives.
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On April 12 2016 06:02 ticklishmusic wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2016 05:51 farvacola wrote:You will all be pleased to hear that one of those people being arrested in front of Congress is Samizdat's mother that's a name i haven't heard in awhile but i don't get the joke
It's not a joke?
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Goddamn it. I volunteered to be a precinct committee person for the Colorado GOP. I can only imagine the shit that I'm going to catch from party members when I start talking with them.
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On April 12 2016 06:35 xDaunt wrote:
Goddamn it. I volunteered to be a precinct committee person for the Colorado GOP. I can only imagine the shit that I'm going to catch from party members when I start talking with them.
This deserves it's own blog I'm betting. Everyone is terribly curious about the process, you're going to need to spill some details at some point.
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On April 12 2016 06:35 xDaunt wrote:
Goddamn it. I volunteered to be a precinct committee person for the Colorado GOP. I can only imagine the shit that I'm going to catch from party members when I start talking with them.
Since the convention options of electing "anyone that is not Trump" is mere theory at this point I think Colorado is the biggest stab in their own gut the Republican party has done so far.
Its the pinnacle of "we will stop Trump even if it kills us" and I expect him to hammer the GOP about it at every chance he gets.
Few things rile up people more then threatening to take away their right to vote, even if they didn't plan to vote at all.
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On April 12 2016 06:38 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2016 06:35 xDaunt wrote:
Goddamn it. I volunteered to be a precinct committee person for the Colorado GOP. I can only imagine the shit that I'm going to catch from party members when I start talking with them. This deserves it's own blog I'm betting. Everyone is terribly curious about the process, you're going to need to spill some details at some point.
I'm probably going to be instructed to say something along the lines of "The process is the process, and Cruz won fair and square." They better give me a good explanation for the #nevertrump tweet.
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On April 12 2016 06:48 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2016 06:38 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 12 2016 06:35 xDaunt wrote:
Goddamn it. I volunteered to be a precinct committee person for the Colorado GOP. I can only imagine the shit that I'm going to catch from party members when I start talking with them. This deserves it's own blog I'm betting. Everyone is terribly curious about the process, you're going to need to spill some details at some point. I'm probably going to be instructed to say something along the lines of "The process is the process, and Cruz won fair and square." They better give me a good explanation for the #nevertrump tweet.
Come on, spill the beans.
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On April 12 2016 06:48 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2016 06:38 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 12 2016 06:35 xDaunt wrote:
Goddamn it. I volunteered to be a precinct committee person for the Colorado GOP. I can only imagine the shit that I'm going to catch from party members when I start talking with them. This deserves it's own blog I'm betting. Everyone is terribly curious about the process, you're going to need to spill some details at some point. I'm probably going to be instructed to say something along the lines of "The process is the process, and Cruz won fair and square." They better give me a good explanation for the #nevertrump tweet.
Trump is unelectable and they don't want to lose the election is the explanation, whether they admit it or not
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On April 12 2016 06:49 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2016 06:48 xDaunt wrote:On April 12 2016 06:38 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 12 2016 06:35 xDaunt wrote:
Goddamn it. I volunteered to be a precinct committee person for the Colorado GOP. I can only imagine the shit that I'm going to catch from party members when I start talking with them. This deserves it's own blog I'm betting. Everyone is terribly curious about the process, you're going to need to spill some details at some point. I'm probably going to be instructed to say something along the lines of "The process is the process, and Cruz won fair and square." They better give me a good explanation for the #nevertrump tweet. Come on, spill the beans.
I don't have the beans. I wasn't at the convention in Colorado Springs. I was busy getting hammered as fuck in Whistler.
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On April 12 2016 06:52 Jaaaaasper wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2016 06:48 xDaunt wrote:On April 12 2016 06:38 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 12 2016 06:35 xDaunt wrote:
Goddamn it. I volunteered to be a precinct committee person for the Colorado GOP. I can only imagine the shit that I'm going to catch from party members when I start talking with them. This deserves it's own blog I'm betting. Everyone is terribly curious about the process, you're going to need to spill some details at some point. I'm probably going to be instructed to say something along the lines of "The process is the process, and Cruz won fair and square." They better give me a good explanation for the #nevertrump tweet. Trump is unelectable and they don't want to lose the election is the explanation, whether they admit it or not
So they instead lose the election be spitting in the face of ~40% of their voters?
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On April 12 2016 06:54 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2016 06:52 Jaaaaasper wrote:On April 12 2016 06:48 xDaunt wrote:On April 12 2016 06:38 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 12 2016 06:35 xDaunt wrote:
Goddamn it. I volunteered to be a precinct committee person for the Colorado GOP. I can only imagine the shit that I'm going to catch from party members when I start talking with them. This deserves it's own blog I'm betting. Everyone is terribly curious about the process, you're going to need to spill some details at some point. I'm probably going to be instructed to say something along the lines of "The process is the process, and Cruz won fair and square." They better give me a good explanation for the #nevertrump tweet. Trump is unelectable and they don't want to lose the election is the explanation, whether they admit it or not So they instead lose the election be spitting in the face of ~40% of their voters?
There is a section of the voters they do not want. To function as a party, they need to move back to the middle and away from tea party. Or implode. The party is looking much longer term than this current election.
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United States42700 Posts
Trump has already said that he'd be willing to run as a 3rd party and that the conduct of the RNC voids his earlier promise not to. I think they're most likely resigned to losing at this point.
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On April 12 2016 05:12 cLutZ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2016 04:54 Acrofales wrote:On April 12 2016 04:47 Naracs_Duc wrote:On April 12 2016 04:46 Kipsate wrote:
Its more relevant because we are talking about America
what the actual fuck? And you're saying there isn't a large population block in america with xenophobic tendencies paired with a strong interest in removing limits to gun control while limiting the size of government in all things except for police and military spending who are interested in creating a uniform state where their values are more important than the values of others. Are you saying there isn't a group like that in the US? Are you actually trying to argue that if the US tendency were to adopt more socialist patterns they are more likely to be like Venezuela than like Sweden? Demographically we sit between the two. Closer to Sweden, but not by much. But also, Sweden itself isn't the Sweden people pretend it is. Swedes in America are richer (even though when the majority immigrated they came from the lower class). Before it implemented its "Democratic Socialism" it was the 4th richest country in the world per the OECD (1970s) by the 1990s it had dropped to 14th. Then it implemented several "pro-market" reforms, and many countries like the US went more socialist and started to climb again. America, while having a smaller welfare state than Sweden, has a very imposing regulatory state (look at any economic freedom index), so if we adopted the social welfare state our policies would not represent the Nordic countries at all, it would be more akin to a Greece/Argentina combination of socialism+corruption+underground economy.
what measure are you using? to me it sounds like you use GDP per capita, which is a horrible metric of societal success, because it is easily skewed by vacuous wealth transfers. if a country finds oil and builds a temple out of solid gold with the proceeds its gdp per capita goes through the roof, even if 90% of the population lie starving in the streets. it says absolutely nothing about how rich the people in the country are.
accordingly (almost) all the top performers in that metric are either financial transaction centered mini states or middle eastern oil wells disguised as countries.
the fillup of countries like Qatar, San Marino and Singapore to drop Sweden is not a absolute or real decline
edit: the best bet to get a high GDP per capita is lots of trade in financial services, loose regulation on international money... does it help the country? who cares... must get a higher score to be winning!!!
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Lindsay Graham already said the idea behind letting Cruz get the nomination was to shut up the conservatives who say "If only we ran a real conservative"
They figure him getting blown out should shut them up for a few elections (I don't think that reflects the reality but that's their problem).
I'm of the group that thinks Cruz is the avenue by which they deny Trump the nomination and put in someone they want on the 3rd+ round of voting. That the Cruz getting obliterated thing is the plan B.
Right now I'm still thinking it ends with them realizing they can't stop Trump without destroying the party. The people most loyal to the party itself are more likely to swallow a Trump nomination than Trump supporters are to swallow a non-Trump nomination.
I predict at least one of the parties doesn't make it beyond the next few elections (at least in their current incarnation).
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On April 12 2016 06:52 Jaaaaasper wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2016 06:48 xDaunt wrote:On April 12 2016 06:38 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 12 2016 06:35 xDaunt wrote:
Goddamn it. I volunteered to be a precinct committee person for the Colorado GOP. I can only imagine the shit that I'm going to catch from party members when I start talking with them. This deserves it's own blog I'm betting. Everyone is terribly curious about the process, you're going to need to spill some details at some point. I'm probably going to be instructed to say something along the lines of "The process is the process, and Cruz won fair and square." They better give me a good explanation for the #nevertrump tweet. Trump is unelectable and they don't want to lose the election is the explanation, whether they admit it or not
Trump is perceived by some as unelectable*
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On April 12 2016 07:17 OtherWorld wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2016 06:52 Jaaaaasper wrote:On April 12 2016 06:48 xDaunt wrote:On April 12 2016 06:38 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 12 2016 06:35 xDaunt wrote:
Goddamn it. I volunteered to be a precinct committee person for the Colorado GOP. I can only imagine the shit that I'm going to catch from party members when I start talking with them. This deserves it's own blog I'm betting. Everyone is terribly curious about the process, you're going to need to spill some details at some point. I'm probably going to be instructed to say something along the lines of "The process is the process, and Cruz won fair and square." They better give me a good explanation for the #nevertrump tweet. Trump is unelectable and they don't want to lose the election is the explanation, whether they admit it or not Trump is perceived by some as unelectable*
Trump is approaching a national 70% disapproval rating. Running him may cost the GOP the senate along with the white house. At this point the GOP may be trying to limit the damage to just a massive loss in the presidential election
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Some Senate and some House races may very well be lost as well. I can see some pissed off Donald supporters leaving the rest of the ballot blank or voting Democrat/ something else to spite the party, unless the candidates declare support of Trump (and/or vice/versa) in which case the other group of "mainstream" Republicans won't vote for the Congressional candidate.
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No matter how I look at it, it is going to be an interesting fall. Honestly, at this point, you can even say we have 4 separate parties ( I mean with a large number of voter support and what is the traditional sense of Democrat and Republican, although if I think about it, not quite traditional sense either). And there is a huge chance of an actual third party being born. Only time will tell what will happen.
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On April 12 2016 07:21 Jaaaaasper wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2016 07:17 OtherWorld wrote:On April 12 2016 06:52 Jaaaaasper wrote:On April 12 2016 06:48 xDaunt wrote:On April 12 2016 06:38 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 12 2016 06:35 xDaunt wrote:
Goddamn it. I volunteered to be a precinct committee person for the Colorado GOP. I can only imagine the shit that I'm going to catch from party members when I start talking with them. This deserves it's own blog I'm betting. Everyone is terribly curious about the process, you're going to need to spill some details at some point. I'm probably going to be instructed to say something along the lines of "The process is the process, and Cruz won fair and square." They better give me a good explanation for the #nevertrump tweet. Trump is unelectable and they don't want to lose the election is the explanation, whether they admit it or not Trump is perceived by some as unelectable* Trump is approaching a national 70% disapproval rating. Running him may cost the GOP the senate along with the white house. At this point the GOP may be trying to limit the damage to just a massive loss in the presidential election
That's only about 10% higher than the disapproval of Republicans at large. The Republican party sooner or later will have to come to the conclusion it isn't just Trump, but them that people don't like.
Republicans have lost the argument on practically every social argument with people under ~30, either they change their stance, or they watch their party literally die off.
If anything Trump acts as a patsy for what will inevitably be a weakening of the Republican control of the House and Senate.
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EPT
