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Skim'd through the past few pages, I don't believe it was mentioned, but Utah's Caucus is also online.
Online voting is a fucking nightmare and should never be trusted; pretty much any computer scientist and hacker will tell you online voting for an election is a fucking AWFUL idea.
Electronic voting booths are already a fucking nightmare as is, online voting is just asking for democracy to be seriously compromised.
Here's a great breakdown why it's a shit idea, and it should never be trusted. Just making voting into mandatory federal holidays, and facilitate more voters to visit a polling center to manually turn in their ballot.
On March 23 2016 10:58 wei2coolman wrote: Skim'd through the past few pages, I don't believe it was mentioned, but Utah's Caucus is also online.
Online voting is a fucking nightmare and should never be trusted; pretty much any computer scientist and hacker will tell you online voting for an election is a fucking AWFUL idea.
Electronic voting booths are already a fucking nightmare as is, online voting is just asking for democracy to be seriously compromised.
Here's a great breakdown why it's a shit idea, and it should never be trusted. Just making voting into mandatory federal holidays, and facilitate more voters to visit a polling center to manually turn in their ballot.
I feel like if almost the entire banking system can handle being digital we could make it feasible. But I agree that some common sense solutions could improve voting substantially before we get there.
Election Update:
Polls in AZ are "closed" but the line still wraps around the building into a neighborhood and the wait is another hr once you get inside.
Just a reminder that Estonia has been E-voting since 2005 without a hitch. Our system is quite a bit more advanced and secure than what's available in the US at the moment (partly due to the fact that the government infrastructure has been made electronic and everyone has an ID card). Basically, if you guys know Scandinavian banking security, it's built on that system, built together with Estonia. You can read more about it here: E-voting in Estonia
There's also a lot of scaremongering about how it's not secure, but a great many of the materials you'll find by google has been fabricated by one of the parties in Estonia that relies on the older vote, and people who don't have citizenship (local elections), so they believe that E-voting doesn't give them votes but might bring people to the polls who otherwise wouldn't (busy people, young people) and those people won't vote them. Exit polls rubbish these claims though, every segment of society and supporters of each party appear to use E-voting.
On March 23 2016 10:58 wei2coolman wrote: Skim'd through the past few pages, I don't believe it was mentioned, but Utah's Caucus is also online.
Online voting is a fucking nightmare and should never be trusted; pretty much any computer scientist and hacker will tell you online voting for an election is a fucking AWFUL idea.
Electronic voting booths are already a fucking nightmare as is, online voting is just asking for democracy to be seriously compromised.
Here's a great breakdown why it's a shit idea, and it should never be trusted. Just making voting into mandatory federal holidays, and facilitate more voters to visit a polling center to manually turn in their ballot.
I feel like if almost the entire banking system can handle being digital we could make it feasible. But I agree that some common sense solutions could improve voting substantially before we get there.
Yet how many times have we heard credit cards constantly being stolen and sold? Identity theft is a multi billion dollar business.
Also, it's not some tin foil hat conspiracy nuts saying this, the entire industry is saying it's a terrible idea. We're talking about the most technologically progressive people are saying this is a TERRIBLE idea.
On March 23 2016 11:15 Ghanburighan wrote: Just a reminder that Estonia has been E-voting since 2005 without a hitch. Our system is quite a bit more advanced and secure than what's available in the US at the moment (partly due to the fact that the government infrastructure has been made electronic and everyone has an ID card). Basically, if you guys know Scandinavian banking security, it's built on that system, built together with Estonia. You can read more about it here: E-voting in Estonia
There's also a lot of scaremongering about how it's not secure, but a great many of the materials you'll find by google has been fabricated by one of the parties in Estonia that relies on the older vote, and people who don't have citizenship (local elections), so they believe that E-voting doesn't give them votes but might bring people to the polls who otherwise wouldn't (busy people, young people) and those people won't vote them. Exit polls rubbish these claims though, every segment of society and supporters of each party appear to use E-voting.
No offense, I don't think anyone cares enough about Estonian politics enough to seriously invest in intelligent hackers to break into your voting system.
Also, it's not a matter of "if", it's a matter of "when".
On March 23 2016 10:58 wei2coolman wrote: Skim'd through the past few pages, I don't believe it was mentioned, but Utah's Caucus is also online.
Online voting is a fucking nightmare and should never be trusted; pretty much any computer scientist and hacker will tell you online voting for an election is a fucking AWFUL idea.
Electronic voting booths are already a fucking nightmare as is, online voting is just asking for democracy to be seriously compromised.
Here's a great breakdown why it's a shit idea, and it should never be trusted. Just making voting into mandatory federal holidays, and facilitate more voters to visit a polling center to manually turn in their ballot.
I feel like if almost the entire banking system can handle being digital we could make it feasible. But I agree that some common sense solutions could improve voting substantially before we get there.
Yet how many times have we heard credit cards constantly being stolen and sold? Identity theft is a multi billion dollar business.
Also, it's not some tin foil hat conspiracy nuts saying this, the entire industry is saying it's a terrible idea. We're talking about the most technologically progressive people are saying this is a TERRIBLE idea.
That's not even remotely true. And while old Europe and the US has a problem with credit cards being stolen, Estonia and the Scandinavian countries have credit card payments that require authentication with the same ID system that secures our voting. And identity theft basically ceases to be an issue.
I just realized something. Anyone else noticed Trump has never told people they're fired? Didn't say Rubio was fired, etc. I think he's saving it for a moment that will be so amazing that it will be a chapter in history books. It will win him a debate or some shit.
On March 23 2016 10:58 wei2coolman wrote: Skim'd through the past few pages, I don't believe it was mentioned, but Utah's Caucus is also online.
Online voting is a fucking nightmare and should never be trusted; pretty much any computer scientist and hacker will tell you online voting for an election is a fucking AWFUL idea.
Electronic voting booths are already a fucking nightmare as is, online voting is just asking for democracy to be seriously compromised.
Here's a great breakdown why it's a shit idea, and it should never be trusted. Just making voting into mandatory federal holidays, and facilitate more voters to visit a polling center to manually turn in their ballot.
I feel like if almost the entire banking system can handle being digital we could make it feasible. But I agree that some common sense solutions could improve voting substantially before we get there.
Yet how many times have we heard credit cards constantly being stolen and sold? Identity theft is a multi billion dollar business.
Also, it's not some tin foil hat conspiracy nuts saying this, the entire industry is saying it's a terrible idea. We're talking about the most technologically progressive people are saying this is a TERRIBLE idea.
I have a hard time believing it's that hard if Estonia seems to have figured it out.
Utah is handing out provisional ballots instead of actual ballots. They are printing provisionals instead of regular ballots (not sure if they just can't print the real ballots).
On March 23 2016 11:22 Mohdoo wrote: I just realized something. Anyone else noticed Trump has never told people they're fired? Didn't say Rubio was fired, etc. I think he's saving it for a moment that will be so amazing that it will be a chapter in history books. It will win him a debate or some shit.
He's waiting to use it for the General. That's not some shit you just throw out there. That's his victory cry, not his war chant.
After an awkward three days of politics, it was baseball that finally brought Cuba and the United States out from half a century of cold war deep freeze on Tuesday, as Barack Obama’s historic visit concluded with a frenzied, but friendly, sporting clash.
They have been playing baseball in Cuba since 1864, but there can have been few more eagerly anticipated games than that between the Cuban national team and the US Major League Baseball side the Tampa Bay Rays.
Contests between American and Cuban sides are rare enough – it wasn’t until 1999 that the Baltimore Orioles became the first MLB team to play here since the revolution – but a chance to best a Florida team in front of the first US president here since 1928 raised the excitement to fever pitch.
Long queues of fans waited out the Estadio Latinoamericano, the Havana home of Cuba’s national sport, and caused a worrying crush on the way in.
Yet, despite partisan roars of “Cuba, Cuba” at every opportunity, the packed crowd saved plenty of noise for the Obama family as they made their way to their seats next to the Cuban president, Raúl Castro.
At one point Obama prompted an expectant roar from a crowd hoping for a walkabout as he stood up to stretch his legs and greet some of the local dignitaries seated in black leather seats just in front of the press section.
TB won if anyone is wondering 4-1, damn political writers writing about sports.
Yeah, fuck those guys. I want my up to the minute delegate math and attack ad drama. Fuck this international relations mumbo jumobo, give me my sweet delicious trump drama :3
I meant you can't write about a sporting event and not talk about the outcome lol.
oh, gotcha. Also, my post was not sarcastic. I re-read it after your post seeming slightly defensive, so just wanna clarify I was not intending to be sarcastic or something of that nature.
Yeah it was just a personal peeve about having to google the score after reading the whole thing lol.
As for the unacceptably stupid polling places plan...
On March 23 2016 10:58 wei2coolman wrote: Skim'd through the past few pages, I don't believe it was mentioned, but Utah's Caucus is also online.
Online voting is a fucking nightmare and should never be trusted; pretty much any computer scientist and hacker will tell you online voting for an election is a fucking AWFUL idea.
Electronic voting booths are already a fucking nightmare as is, online voting is just asking for democracy to be seriously compromised.
Here's a great breakdown why it's a shit idea, and it should never be trusted. Just making voting into mandatory federal holidays, and facilitate more voters to visit a polling center to manually turn in their ballot.
I feel like if almost the entire banking system can handle being digital we could make it feasible. But I agree that some common sense solutions could improve voting substantially before we get there.
Yet how many times have we heard credit cards constantly being stolen and sold? Identity theft is a multi billion dollar business.
Also, it's not some tin foil hat conspiracy nuts saying this, the entire industry is saying it's a terrible idea. We're talking about the most technologically progressive people are saying this is a TERRIBLE idea.
I have a hard time believing it's that hard if Estonia seems to have figured it out.
Utah is handing out provisional ballots instead of actual ballots. They are printing provisionals instead of regular ballots (not sure if they just can't print the real ballots).
Maybe if Estonian politics had enough riding on it where investing millions into breaking into it's voter system would be worth it.
That's like saying "Oh self driving cars are 100% safe because we tested it in this small town where the automobile density is nonexistent, and no one here has bothered to try and hack it".
On March 23 2016 11:22 Mohdoo wrote: I just realized something. Anyone else noticed Trump has never told people they're fired? Didn't say Rubio was fired, etc. I think he's saving it for a moment that will be so amazing that it will be a chapter in history books. It will win him a debate or some shit.
He's waiting to use it for the General. That's not some shit you just throw out there. That's his victory cry, not his war chant.
It's the day of the election.
The election is drawing to a close as the West coast polls are coming in
It's a neck and neck race between Trump and Clinton.
Things are looking grim for Trump though, the strong liberal leanings of the states on the West coast are looking to be the source of Trump's downfall.
*BREAKING NEWS* on all the News Channels.
Clinton is finally being indicted and arrested on charges regarding her private email server.
Trump comes out hours earlier than expected to hold a press conference. CNN, FOX, MSNBC, Aljazeera, etc all switch to Trumps press conference.
Unlike his usual podium Trump is holding a mic by the hand.
The only words uttered were, "Clinton. You're fired..." *drops mic* the crowd explodes (in a non jihadist way).
After an awkward three days of politics, it was baseball that finally brought Cuba and the United States out from half a century of cold war deep freeze on Tuesday, as Barack Obama’s historic visit concluded with a frenzied, but friendly, sporting clash.
They have been playing baseball in Cuba since 1864, but there can have been few more eagerly anticipated games than that between the Cuban national team and the US Major League Baseball side the Tampa Bay Rays.
Contests between American and Cuban sides are rare enough – it wasn’t until 1999 that the Baltimore Orioles became the first MLB team to play here since the revolution – but a chance to best a Florida team in front of the first US president here since 1928 raised the excitement to fever pitch.
Long queues of fans waited out the Estadio Latinoamericano, the Havana home of Cuba’s national sport, and caused a worrying crush on the way in.
Yet, despite partisan roars of “Cuba, Cuba” at every opportunity, the packed crowd saved plenty of noise for the Obama family as they made their way to their seats next to the Cuban president, Raúl Castro.
At one point Obama prompted an expectant roar from a crowd hoping for a walkabout as he stood up to stretch his legs and greet some of the local dignitaries seated in black leather seats just in front of the press section.
TB won if anyone is wondering 4-1, damn political writers writing about sports.
Yeah, fuck those guys. I want my up to the minute delegate math and attack ad drama. Fuck this international relations mumbo jumobo, give me my sweet delicious trump drama :3
I meant you can't write about a sporting event and not talk about the outcome lol.
oh, gotcha. Also, my post was not sarcastic. I re-read it after your post seeming slightly defensive, so just wanna clarify I was not intending to be sarcastic or something of that nature.
Yeah it was just a personal peeve about having to google the score after reading the whole thing lol.
As for the unacceptably stupid polling places plan...
On March 23 2016 10:58 wei2coolman wrote: Skim'd through the past few pages, I don't believe it was mentioned, but Utah's Caucus is also online.
Online voting is a fucking nightmare and should never be trusted; pretty much any computer scientist and hacker will tell you online voting for an election is a fucking AWFUL idea.
Electronic voting booths are already a fucking nightmare as is, online voting is just asking for democracy to be seriously compromised.
Here's a great breakdown why it's a shit idea, and it should never be trusted. Just making voting into mandatory federal holidays, and facilitate more voters to visit a polling center to manually turn in their ballot.
I feel like if almost the entire banking system can handle being digital we could make it feasible. But I agree that some common sense solutions could improve voting substantially before we get there.
Election Update:
Polls in AZ are "closed" but the line still wraps around the building into a neighborhood and the wait is another hr once you get inside.
I don't think comparing to the banking system is a good comparison as frequency of use is not even close- banking has lots and lots of chances to correct weird transactions because there is a pattern. Something you don't have every four years.
The motivation to hijack an election of a powerful country such as the US is orders of magnitude greater than Estonia. Whereas voter fraud with votes in person does not scale very well. Whereas anything electronic can be interrupted- man in the middle- and can scale very well.
And then we lose the ability to audit- can we confirm our vote actually goes anywhere... the current system, the boxes need to be counted in the presence of representatives of the differing parties. We give up all those checks and balances for a computer program that is hopefully trustworthy and hasn't been tampered.
If it really is that hard to go out and physically vote, I think the solution is make election day a stat holiday and continue to increase early voting times for those that need work on the stat.
On March 23 2016 10:58 wei2coolman wrote: Skim'd through the past few pages, I don't believe it was mentioned, but Utah's Caucus is also online.
Online voting is a fucking nightmare and should never be trusted; pretty much any computer scientist and hacker will tell you online voting for an election is a fucking AWFUL idea.
Electronic voting booths are already a fucking nightmare as is, online voting is just asking for democracy to be seriously compromised.
Here's a great breakdown why it's a shit idea, and it should never be trusted. Just making voting into mandatory federal holidays, and facilitate more voters to visit a polling center to manually turn in their ballot.
I feel like if almost the entire banking system can handle being digital we could make it feasible. But I agree that some common sense solutions could improve voting substantially before we get there.
Election Update:
Polls in AZ are "closed" but the line still wraps around the building into a neighborhood and the wait is another hr once you get inside.
I don't think comparing to the banking system is a good comparison as frequency of use is not even close- banking has lots and lots of chances to correct weird transactions because there is a pattern. Something you don't have every four years.
The motivation to hijack an election of a powerful country such as the US is orders of magnitude greater than Estonia. Whereas voter fraud with votes in person does not scale very well. Whereas anything electronic can be interrupted- man in the middle- and can scale very well.
And then we lose the ability to audit- can we confirm our vote actually goes anywhere... the current system, the boxes need to be counted in the presence of representatives of the differing parties. We give up all those checks and balances for a computer program that is hopefully trustworthy and hasn't been tampered.
If it really is that hard to go out and physically vote, I think the solution is make election day a stat holiday and continue to increase early voting times for those that need work on the stat.
If you read the post I wrote you'd know that there are safeguards against what you wrote. For example, it literally explains how electronic vote counting is observed.
I'd also like to remind you that the US has used E-voting without proper security and voting machines (that were suspect), and even though the systems were deeply flawed, the magnitudes of motivation didn't lead to successful tampering.
So instead of bashing Estonia for doing something you don't quite understand, I recommend you read about the existing system, and the ways in which it guards against these simple problems.
On March 23 2016 11:47 jcarlsoniv wrote: I think netting positive is a good start
Yeah haha. Fucking Arizona and these crap polls and Millennials not early voting. I warned people I called the lines would be ridiculous, but few listened.
The lines look good for Bernie and so do the pictures but I know we are losing voters to the lines. But the whole inevitability thing may have helped a little in that it might of made Hillary supporters less likely to stay.
We've been planning for this for a while in Washington and the party is totally fail, but Bernie supporters have figured out our own solutions in a lot of locations. Hoping we can not be as bad but I'm pretty sure the east side is going to screw up maybe parts of Seattle too.
On March 23 2016 10:58 wei2coolman wrote: Skim'd through the past few pages, I don't believe it was mentioned, but Utah's Caucus is also online.
Online voting is a fucking nightmare and should never be trusted; pretty much any computer scientist and hacker will tell you online voting for an election is a fucking AWFUL idea.
Electronic voting booths are already a fucking nightmare as is, online voting is just asking for democracy to be seriously compromised.
Here's a great breakdown why it's a shit idea, and it should never be trusted. Just making voting into mandatory federal holidays, and facilitate more voters to visit a polling center to manually turn in their ballot.
I feel like if almost the entire banking system can handle being digital we could make it feasible. But I agree that some common sense solutions could improve voting substantially before we get there.
Election Update:
Polls in AZ are "closed" but the line still wraps around the building into a neighborhood and the wait is another hr once you get inside.
I don't think comparing to the banking system is a good comparison as frequency of use is not even close- banking has lots and lots of chances to correct weird transactions because there is a pattern. Something you don't have every four years.
The motivation to hijack an election of a powerful country such as the US is orders of magnitude greater than Estonia. Whereas voter fraud with votes in person does not scale very well. Whereas anything electronic can be interrupted- man in the middle- and can scale very well.
And then we lose the ability to audit- can we confirm our vote actually goes anywhere... the current system, the boxes need to be counted in the presence of representatives of the differing parties. We give up all those checks and balances for a computer program that is hopefully trustworthy and hasn't been tampered.
If it really is that hard to go out and physically vote, I think the solution is make election day a stat holiday and continue to increase early voting times for those that need work on the stat.
Well, considering the VA still has computers older than most of this site's users I think implementing E-voting is a long horizon discussion to start with. Our system is crap though, we should be the best at this and we're not even top 10. Any politician not thinking this is a serious issue, doesn't want more people to vote.
On March 23 2016 10:58 wei2coolman wrote: Skim'd through the past few pages, I don't believe it was mentioned, but Utah's Caucus is also online.
Online voting is a fucking nightmare and should never be trusted; pretty much any computer scientist and hacker will tell you online voting for an election is a fucking AWFUL idea.
Electronic voting booths are already a fucking nightmare as is, online voting is just asking for democracy to be seriously compromised.
Here's a great breakdown why it's a shit idea, and it should never be trusted. Just making voting into mandatory federal holidays, and facilitate more voters to visit a polling center to manually turn in their ballot.
I feel like if almost the entire banking system can handle being digital we could make it feasible. But I agree that some common sense solutions could improve voting substantially before we get there.
Election Update:
Polls in AZ are "closed" but the line still wraps around the building into a neighborhood and the wait is another hr once you get inside.
I don't think comparing to the banking system is a good comparison as frequency of use is not even close- banking has lots and lots of chances to correct weird transactions because there is a pattern. Something you don't have every four years.
The motivation to hijack an election of a powerful country such as the US is orders of magnitude greater than Estonia. Whereas voter fraud with votes in person does not scale very well. Whereas anything electronic can be interrupted- man in the middle- and can scale very well.
And then we lose the ability to audit- can we confirm our vote actually goes anywhere... the current system, the boxes need to be counted in the presence of representatives of the differing parties. We give up all those checks and balances for a computer program that is hopefully trustworthy and hasn't been tampered.
If it really is that hard to go out and physically vote, I think the solution is make election day a stat holiday and continue to increase early voting times for those that need work on the stat.
It isn't impossible to prevent a man in the middle attack. Also it should be trivial to post the code somewhere for anyone to audit. If your security relies on obscurity it isn't worthwhile as a solution.
On March 23 2016 11:28 GreenHorizons wrote: What does Bernie have to do tonight for Hillary supporters to consider tonight a win for Bernie and a loss for Hillary?
I'll say a net +30 delegates. Things get pretty desperate if he draws even or only gets a small positive overall in these three states.
Edit: And as I say that, Arizona comes out of the gate with +25 Clinton...
On March 23 2016 11:28 GreenHorizons wrote: What does Bernie have to do tonight for Hillary supporters to consider tonight a win for Bernie and a loss for Hillary?
I'll say a net +30 delegates. Things get pretty desperate if he draws even or only gets a small positive overall in these three states.
He picked up a couple (and a half) in the Dems abroad primary so can I shrink that to +28?
EDIT: Pretty sure that's the early vote and that's a better break than we would expect. Still rough though
On March 23 2016 11:28 GreenHorizons wrote: What does Bernie have to do tonight for Hillary supporters to consider tonight a win for Bernie and a loss for Hillary?
I'll say a net +30 delegates. Things get pretty desperate if he draws even or only gets a small positive overall in these three states.
He picked up a couple (and a half) in the Dems abroad primary so can I shrink that to +28?
EDIT: Pretty sure that's the early vote and that's a better break than we would expect.
Definitely not indicative of the overall result. They would have called it for Clinton already.
EPT
