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On February 11 2016 10:24 Chewbacca. wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2016 10:15 Plansix wrote:On February 11 2016 10:06 Chewbacca. wrote:On February 11 2016 10:04 Plansix wrote:On February 11 2016 10:02 Chewbacca. wrote:On February 11 2016 09:58 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 11 2016 09:55 ErectedZenith wrote:On February 11 2016 09:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 11 2016 09:22 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 11 2016 09:10 GreenHorizons wrote:
My read on the situation is that people don't want the state to control everything any more than they want corporations to.
What people want is for common folk to regain some influence over those two groups which are undeniably conspiring to screw them over.
This is the Bernie/Trump appeal in a nutshell. The only problem is that Trump is anything but representative of "common folk" (especially as one of the most arrogant one-percenters out there). Supporters seem to connect with him more on a politically incorrect/ fuck the political establishment level, rather than him having the folksy charm that candidates like Sarah Palin attempted. Trump is pretty much the opposite of a soccer mom. Yeah Trumps shtick is a total scam. But that politically incorrect/fuck the establishment/xenophobic/racist stuff is a manifestation from a similar root. Ironically it's actually just white middle class folks falling into the same realities that marginalized people know America as always being. Nothing would bring in more stark contrast the lies Trump is peddling than Bernie's undeniably real sincerity and goals. I mean the attack recently leveled here only stood as an example that he's been fighting for working class folks his whole political life. Further backed up when Sanders talks about how his motivation isn't money, success, or power, it's a very real emotional reaction he has to seeing a weaker person taken advantage of by a stronger person, which stands in stark contrast to what sacrifices to common decency one must make to be a billionaire in the first place. Trump is not a racist though. He is getting rid of illegal immigrant. And their American families, but go on. I'm sure it's just coincidence white supremacists are coming out to support/endorse/make calls for Trump. They're probably just bad at being white supremacists... Didn't this whole conversation happen like two weeks ago? White supremacists have to support someone, even if there are no white supremacists running. So they endorse the person who most lines up with their views, even if that person isn't a white supremacist...this happens to be Trump since he is the most anti-illegal immigration/muslim people, which tend not to be white. Its an ongoing discussion because some people don't seem to be able to accept that someone is racist unless they burn across on black family's lawn. And then they requires confirmation the cross burning wasn't satire and the black family didn't do anything to provoke the cross burning. Whether Trump happens to be racist or not isn't the point. The point is that just because a racist group supports someone doesn't mean that the person they're supporting is automatically a racist. He says racist things all the time. Talked about Mexico was sending over rapists and murders like it was real. He wants to create a data base for Muslims(not a race, I know, but I bet that data base would be filled with brown people). The man is super racist.And if racists groups support him, that is the reality of the situation. You act like there is nothing he could do to stop them, yet all it would take is to not be a super racist bigot. Also, he has said that the flat earth people might be on to something and hinted at denying the holocaust. That is irrelevant. I am not saying that Trump isn't a racist. Pretend for a minute that Trump is not a racist and he really is just anti-Muslim and anti-illegal immigration, no matter what race the Muslim practitioner or illegal immigrant was. The white supremacist groups would still endorse Trump, because his policies, while not race motivated, happen to lead to a situation more in line with their ideal view of the US (These two positions will likely lead to a more white US). Yet in this situation he isn't a racist. Just because racist people endorse you does NOT make you a racist. Your own beliefs/actions are what make you a racist. So using the fact that a racist group supports Trump as evidence to him being a racist is just silly.
If I agreed with your premise I think it would be a silly thing to bring up, particularly after a couple pages telling me how baseless rhetorical attacks would be insurmountable for Bernie. (not that you personally made that point)
But your premise of "The white supremacist groups would still endorse" isn't true.
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On February 11 2016 10:28 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2016 10:24 Chewbacca. wrote:On February 11 2016 10:15 Plansix wrote:On February 11 2016 10:06 Chewbacca. wrote:On February 11 2016 10:04 Plansix wrote:On February 11 2016 10:02 Chewbacca. wrote:On February 11 2016 09:58 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 11 2016 09:55 ErectedZenith wrote:On February 11 2016 09:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 11 2016 09:22 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
[quote]
The only problem is that Trump is anything but representative of "common folk" (especially as one of the most arrogant one-percenters out there). Supporters seem to connect with him more on a politically incorrect/ fuck the political establishment level, rather than him having the folksy charm that candidates like Sarah Palin attempted. Trump is pretty much the opposite of a soccer mom. Yeah Trumps shtick is a total scam. But that politically incorrect/fuck the establishment/xenophobic/racist stuff is a manifestation from a similar root. Ironically it's actually just white middle class folks falling into the same realities that marginalized people know America as always being. Nothing would bring in more stark contrast the lies Trump is peddling than Bernie's undeniably real sincerity and goals. I mean the attack recently leveled here only stood as an example that he's been fighting for working class folks his whole political life. Further backed up when Sanders talks about how his motivation isn't money, success, or power, it's a very real emotional reaction he has to seeing a weaker person taken advantage of by a stronger person, which stands in stark contrast to what sacrifices to common decency one must make to be a billionaire in the first place. Trump is not a racist though. He is getting rid of illegal immigrant. And their American families, but go on. I'm sure it's just coincidence white supremacists are coming out to support/endorse/make calls for Trump. They're probably just bad at being white supremacists... Didn't this whole conversation happen like two weeks ago? White supremacists have to support someone, even if there are no white supremacists running. So they endorse the person who most lines up with their views, even if that person isn't a white supremacist...this happens to be Trump since he is the most anti-illegal immigration/muslim people, which tend not to be white. Its an ongoing discussion because some people don't seem to be able to accept that someone is racist unless they burn across on black family's lawn. And then they requires confirmation the cross burning wasn't satire and the black family didn't do anything to provoke the cross burning. Whether Trump happens to be racist or not isn't the point. The point is that just because a racist group supports someone doesn't mean that the person they're supporting is automatically a racist. He says racist things all the time. Talked about Mexico was sending over rapists and murders like it was real. He wants to create a data base for Muslims(not a race, I know, but I bet that data base would be filled with brown people). The man is super racist.And if racists groups support him, that is the reality of the situation. You act like there is nothing he could do to stop them, yet all it would take is to not be a super racist bigot. Also, he has said that the flat earth people might be on to something and hinted at denying the holocaust. That is irrelevant. I am not saying that Trump isn't a racist. Pretend for a minute that Trump is not a racist and he really is just anti-Muslim and anti-illegal immigration, no matter what race the Muslim practitioner or illegal immigrant was. The white supremacist groups would still endorse Trump, because his policies, while not race motivated, happen to lead to a situation more in line with their ideal view of the US (These two positions will likely lead to a more white US). Yet in this situation he isn't a racist. Just because racist people endorse you does NOT make you a racist. Your own beliefs/actions are what make you a racist. So using the fact that a racist group supports Trump as evidence to him being a racist is just silly. Sure, I don't think I ever made the argument otherwise. But that when white supremacist are likely going to support someone because they are racist. They have a consistent track history of only endorsing racists, so I feel safe in thinking that any candidate they openly endorse is not for me and is very likely racist. Show nested quote +On February 11 2016 10:22 ErectedZenith wrote:On February 11 2016 10:18 Plansix wrote:On February 11 2016 10:11 ErectedZenith wrote:On February 11 2016 10:06 Plansix wrote:On February 11 2016 10:04 ErectedZenith wrote:On February 11 2016 09:58 Plansix wrote:On February 11 2016 09:28 xDaunt wrote:On February 11 2016 09:22 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 11 2016 09:10 GreenHorizons wrote:
My read on the situation is that people don't want the state to control everything any more than they want corporations to.
What people want is for common folk to regain some influence over those two groups which are undeniably conspiring to screw them over.
This is the Bernie/Trump appeal in a nutshell. The only problem is that Trump is anything but representative of "common folk" (especially as one of the most arrogant one-percenters out there). Supporters seem to connect with him more on a politically incorrect/ fuck the political establishment level, rather than him having the folksy charm that candidates like Sarah Palin attempted. Trump is pretty much the opposite of a soccer mom. You are missing the point. Trump is running on a populist platform. I don't think that people are going to care that he is a billionaire. You need to think of him as the second coming of Teddy Roosvelt. Teddy Rossvelt actually gave a fuck about poor people, so not to much. Trump an ego maniac taking advantage of a defunked GOP that spend the last 4 Congressional elections promising their base shit they could never deliver. The only thing they have in common is the fact that both of them said some off color shit. Also Roosvelt's daughter was way more interesting than any of Trump's kids. On February 11 2016 09:55 ErectedZenith wrote:On February 11 2016 09:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 11 2016 09:22 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
[quote]
The only problem is that Trump is anything but representative of "common folk" (especially as one of the most arrogant one-percenters out there). Supporters seem to connect with him more on a politically incorrect/ fuck the political establishment level, rather than him having the folksy charm that candidates like Sarah Palin attempted. Trump is pretty much the opposite of a soccer mom. Yeah Trumps shtick is a total scam. But that politically incorrect/fuck the establishment/xenophobic/racist stuff is a manifestation from a similar root. Ironically it's actually just white middle class folks falling into the same realities that marginalized people know America as always being. Nothing would bring in more stark contrast the lies Trump is peddling than Bernie's undeniably real sincerity and goals. I mean the attack recently leveled here only stood as an example that he's been fighting for working class folks his whole political life. Further backed up when Sanders talks about how his motivation isn't money, success, or power, it's a very real emotional reaction he has to seeing a weaker person taken advantage of by a stronger person, which stands in stark contrast to what sacrifices to common decency one must make to be a billionaire in the first place. Trump is not a racist though. He is getting rid of illegal immigrant. Nah, he is a full blow bigot that thinks he can force another sovereign nation to pay us to build a wall. People just stopped pointing it out because its like saying the sky is blue. If Donald Trump can leverage USA's position have over Mexico to strike a deal for Mexican to build the wall and give companies more incentives to stay in USA (unlike Sanders) so that people can be productive in the society by working. Then that's great news for every legal Americans. Yeah, that is never going to happen. That isn't' reality, that is a racist pipe dream. Mexico isn't going to do shit except laugh. Its not racist though, you are definitely wrong on that. And Mexico's economy is pretty much reliant on USA, USA is a huge factor to dictate the direction of Mexico. Any elected USA president can abuse American's position and make a deal that is exclusively beneficial for USA. Obama can do it, Sanders can too. It was mostly all the other racist stuff he said that made me call him racist. The wall is just stupid. It was stupid when China did it and its still stupid today. And America need immigrants, illegal and otherwise. Reforming immigration is the real plan, not this populist pipe dream Trump is shilling. It wasn't stupid when China did it, they truly needed the wall for protection. That's so ignorant. Again, if Trump can make Mexico pay for the wall, all the power to him. And Trump isn't even saying to stop immigration, he is saying that USA should take in better candidates to improve the country. No to all of these things. The great wall of china was pretty meh at its job. Trump can't do that and he won't improve immigration because he has no plan to do it.
Its better than no wall at all.
And during early days of Trump's campaign, he literally have said that USA needs to accept more qualified individuals.
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On February 11 2016 10:35 ErectedZenith wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2016 10:28 Plansix wrote:On February 11 2016 10:24 Chewbacca. wrote:On February 11 2016 10:15 Plansix wrote:On February 11 2016 10:06 Chewbacca. wrote:On February 11 2016 10:04 Plansix wrote:On February 11 2016 10:02 Chewbacca. wrote:On February 11 2016 09:58 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 11 2016 09:55 ErectedZenith wrote:On February 11 2016 09:33 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]
Yeah Trumps shtick is a total scam. But that politically incorrect/fuck the establishment/xenophobic/racist stuff is a manifestation from a similar root.
Ironically it's actually just white middle class folks falling into the same realities that marginalized people know America as always being.
Nothing would bring in more stark contrast the lies Trump is peddling than Bernie's undeniably real sincerity and goals. I mean the attack recently leveled here only stood as an example that he's been fighting for working class folks his whole political life.
Further backed up when Sanders talks about how his motivation isn't money, success, or power, it's a very real emotional reaction he has to seeing a weaker person taken advantage of by a stronger person, which stands in stark contrast to what sacrifices to common decency one must make to be a billionaire in the first place. Trump is not a racist though. He is getting rid of illegal immigrant. And their American families, but go on. I'm sure it's just coincidence white supremacists are coming out to support/endorse/make calls for Trump. They're probably just bad at being white supremacists... Didn't this whole conversation happen like two weeks ago? White supremacists have to support someone, even if there are no white supremacists running. So they endorse the person who most lines up with their views, even if that person isn't a white supremacist...this happens to be Trump since he is the most anti-illegal immigration/muslim people, which tend not to be white. Its an ongoing discussion because some people don't seem to be able to accept that someone is racist unless they burn across on black family's lawn. And then they requires confirmation the cross burning wasn't satire and the black family didn't do anything to provoke the cross burning. Whether Trump happens to be racist or not isn't the point. The point is that just because a racist group supports someone doesn't mean that the person they're supporting is automatically a racist. He says racist things all the time. Talked about Mexico was sending over rapists and murders like it was real. He wants to create a data base for Muslims(not a race, I know, but I bet that data base would be filled with brown people). The man is super racist.And if racists groups support him, that is the reality of the situation. You act like there is nothing he could do to stop them, yet all it would take is to not be a super racist bigot. Also, he has said that the flat earth people might be on to something and hinted at denying the holocaust. That is irrelevant. I am not saying that Trump isn't a racist. Pretend for a minute that Trump is not a racist and he really is just anti-Muslim and anti-illegal immigration, no matter what race the Muslim practitioner or illegal immigrant was. The white supremacist groups would still endorse Trump, because his policies, while not race motivated, happen to lead to a situation more in line with their ideal view of the US (These two positions will likely lead to a more white US). Yet in this situation he isn't a racist. Just because racist people endorse you does NOT make you a racist. Your own beliefs/actions are what make you a racist. So using the fact that a racist group supports Trump as evidence to him being a racist is just silly. Sure, I don't think I ever made the argument otherwise. But that when white supremacist are likely going to support someone because they are racist. They have a consistent track history of only endorsing racists, so I feel safe in thinking that any candidate they openly endorse is not for me and is very likely racist. On February 11 2016 10:22 ErectedZenith wrote:On February 11 2016 10:18 Plansix wrote:On February 11 2016 10:11 ErectedZenith wrote:On February 11 2016 10:06 Plansix wrote:On February 11 2016 10:04 ErectedZenith wrote:On February 11 2016 09:58 Plansix wrote:On February 11 2016 09:28 xDaunt wrote:On February 11 2016 09:22 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
[quote]
The only problem is that Trump is anything but representative of "common folk" (especially as one of the most arrogant one-percenters out there). Supporters seem to connect with him more on a politically incorrect/ fuck the political establishment level, rather than him having the folksy charm that candidates like Sarah Palin attempted. Trump is pretty much the opposite of a soccer mom. You are missing the point. Trump is running on a populist platform. I don't think that people are going to care that he is a billionaire. You need to think of him as the second coming of Teddy Roosvelt. Teddy Rossvelt actually gave a fuck about poor people, so not to much. Trump an ego maniac taking advantage of a defunked GOP that spend the last 4 Congressional elections promising their base shit they could never deliver. The only thing they have in common is the fact that both of them said some off color shit. Also Roosvelt's daughter was way more interesting than any of Trump's kids. On February 11 2016 09:55 ErectedZenith wrote:On February 11 2016 09:33 GreenHorizons wrote:
[quote]
Yeah Trumps shtick is a total scam. But that politically incorrect/fuck the establishment/xenophobic/racist stuff is a manifestation from a similar root.
Ironically it's actually just white middle class folks falling into the same realities that marginalized people know America as always being.
Nothing would bring in more stark contrast the lies Trump is peddling than Bernie's undeniably real sincerity and goals. I mean the attack recently leveled here only stood as an example that he's been fighting for working class folks his whole political life.
Further backed up when Sanders talks about how his motivation isn't money, success, or power, it's a very real emotional reaction he has to seeing a weaker person taken advantage of by a stronger person, which stands in stark contrast to what sacrifices to common decency one must make to be a billionaire in the first place. Trump is not a racist though. He is getting rid of illegal immigrant. Nah, he is a full blow bigot that thinks he can force another sovereign nation to pay us to build a wall. People just stopped pointing it out because its like saying the sky is blue. If Donald Trump can leverage USA's position have over Mexico to strike a deal for Mexican to build the wall and give companies more incentives to stay in USA (unlike Sanders) so that people can be productive in the society by working. Then that's great news for every legal Americans. Yeah, that is never going to happen. That isn't' reality, that is a racist pipe dream. Mexico isn't going to do shit except laugh. Its not racist though, you are definitely wrong on that. And Mexico's economy is pretty much reliant on USA, USA is a huge factor to dictate the direction of Mexico. Any elected USA president can abuse American's position and make a deal that is exclusively beneficial for USA. Obama can do it, Sanders can too. It was mostly all the other racist stuff he said that made me call him racist. The wall is just stupid. It was stupid when China did it and its still stupid today. And America need immigrants, illegal and otherwise. Reforming immigration is the real plan, not this populist pipe dream Trump is shilling. It wasn't stupid when China did it, they truly needed the wall for protection. That's so ignorant. Again, if Trump can make Mexico pay for the wall, all the power to him. And Trump isn't even saying to stop immigration, he is saying that USA should take in better candidates to improve the country. No to all of these things. The great wall of china was pretty meh at its job. Trump can't do that and he won't improve immigration because he has no plan to do it. Its better than no wall at all. And during early days of Trump's campaign, he literally have said that USA needs to accept more qualified individuals.
That isn't a plan, that is a statement. Other candidates have plans that don't involve stupid walls or claiming Mexico is sending over rapist. And it took a million people to build that wall when they could have been doing anythings else. Arguing that it existed, therefore it was good is not compelling in the slightest.
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On February 11 2016 10:19 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2016 10:00 ErectedZenith wrote:On February 11 2016 09:58 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 11 2016 09:55 ErectedZenith wrote:On February 11 2016 09:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 11 2016 09:22 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 11 2016 09:10 GreenHorizons wrote:
My read on the situation is that people don't want the state to control everything any more than they want corporations to.
What people want is for common folk to regain some influence over those two groups which are undeniably conspiring to screw them over.
This is the Bernie/Trump appeal in a nutshell. The only problem is that Trump is anything but representative of "common folk" (especially as one of the most arrogant one-percenters out there). Supporters seem to connect with him more on a politically incorrect/ fuck the political establishment level, rather than him having the folksy charm that candidates like Sarah Palin attempted. Trump is pretty much the opposite of a soccer mom. Yeah Trumps shtick is a total scam. But that politically incorrect/fuck the establishment/xenophobic/racist stuff is a manifestation from a similar root. Ironically it's actually just white middle class folks falling into the same realities that marginalized people know America as always being. Nothing would bring in more stark contrast the lies Trump is peddling than Bernie's undeniably real sincerity and goals. I mean the attack recently leveled here only stood as an example that he's been fighting for working class folks his whole political life. Further backed up when Sanders talks about how his motivation isn't money, success, or power, it's a very real emotional reaction he has to seeing a weaker person taken advantage of by a stronger person, which stands in stark contrast to what sacrifices to common decency one must make to be a billionaire in the first place. Trump is not a racist though. He is getting rid of illegal immigrant. And their American families, but go on. I'm sure it's just coincidence white supremacists are coming out to support/endorse/make calls for Trump. They're probably just bad at being white supremacists... Still not racist though, he'll do this to any illegal immigrants, no discrimination there. You can be anti- illegal immigration and still be racist/ bigoted. The things he's said about Mexicans, Muslims, women, and a bunch of other groups supports the argument that he's a hateful and prejudicial man.
Would you want to share specific things he said that made that support that argument for you?
On February 11 2016 10:18 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2016 10:11 ErectedZenith wrote:On February 11 2016 10:06 Plansix wrote:On February 11 2016 10:04 ErectedZenith wrote:On February 11 2016 09:58 Plansix wrote:On February 11 2016 09:28 xDaunt wrote:On February 11 2016 09:22 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 11 2016 09:10 GreenHorizons wrote:
My read on the situation is that people don't want the state to control everything any more than they want corporations to.
What people want is for common folk to regain some influence over those two groups which are undeniably conspiring to screw them over.
This is the Bernie/Trump appeal in a nutshell. The only problem is that Trump is anything but representative of "common folk" (especially as one of the most arrogant one-percenters out there). Supporters seem to connect with him more on a politically incorrect/ fuck the political establishment level, rather than him having the folksy charm that candidates like Sarah Palin attempted. Trump is pretty much the opposite of a soccer mom. You are missing the point. Trump is running on a populist platform. I don't think that people are going to care that he is a billionaire. You need to think of him as the second coming of Teddy Roosvelt. Teddy Rossvelt actually gave a fuck about poor people, so not to much. Trump an ego maniac taking advantage of a defunked GOP that spend the last 4 Congressional elections promising their base shit they could never deliver. The only thing they have in common is the fact that both of them said some off color shit. Also Roosvelt's daughter was way more interesting than any of Trump's kids. On February 11 2016 09:55 ErectedZenith wrote:On February 11 2016 09:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 11 2016 09:22 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 11 2016 09:10 GreenHorizons wrote:
My read on the situation is that people don't want the state to control everything any more than they want corporations to.
What people want is for common folk to regain some influence over those two groups which are undeniably conspiring to screw them over.
This is the Bernie/Trump appeal in a nutshell. The only problem is that Trump is anything but representative of "common folk" (especially as one of the most arrogant one-percenters out there). Supporters seem to connect with him more on a politically incorrect/ fuck the political establishment level, rather than him having the folksy charm that candidates like Sarah Palin attempted. Trump is pretty much the opposite of a soccer mom. Yeah Trumps shtick is a total scam. But that politically incorrect/fuck the establishment/xenophobic/racist stuff is a manifestation from a similar root. Ironically it's actually just white middle class folks falling into the same realities that marginalized people know America as always being. Nothing would bring in more stark contrast the lies Trump is peddling than Bernie's undeniably real sincerity and goals. I mean the attack recently leveled here only stood as an example that he's been fighting for working class folks his whole political life. Further backed up when Sanders talks about how his motivation isn't money, success, or power, it's a very real emotional reaction he has to seeing a weaker person taken advantage of by a stronger person, which stands in stark contrast to what sacrifices to common decency one must make to be a billionaire in the first place. Trump is not a racist though. He is getting rid of illegal immigrant. Nah, he is a full blow bigot that thinks he can force another sovereign nation to pay us to build a wall. People just stopped pointing it out because its like saying the sky is blue. If Donald Trump can leverage USA's position have over Mexico to strike a deal for Mexican to build the wall and give companies more incentives to stay in USA (unlike Sanders) so that people can be productive in the society by working. Then that's great news for every legal Americans. Yeah, that is never going to happen. That isn't' reality, that is a racist pipe dream. Mexico isn't going to do shit except laugh. Its not racist though, you are definitely wrong on that. And Mexico's economy is pretty much reliant on USA, USA is a huge factor to dictate the direction of Mexico. Any elected USA president can abuse American's position and make a deal that is exclusively beneficial for USA. Obama can do it, Sanders can too. And America need immigrants, illegal and otherwise.
Why would America "need" illegal immigrants, let alone any country?
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On February 11 2016 10:40 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2016 10:35 ErectedZenith wrote:On February 11 2016 10:28 Plansix wrote:On February 11 2016 10:24 Chewbacca. wrote:On February 11 2016 10:15 Plansix wrote:On February 11 2016 10:06 Chewbacca. wrote:On February 11 2016 10:04 Plansix wrote:On February 11 2016 10:02 Chewbacca. wrote:On February 11 2016 09:58 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 11 2016 09:55 ErectedZenith wrote:
[quote]
Trump is not a racist though. He is getting rid of illegal immigrant. And their American families, but go on. I'm sure it's just coincidence white supremacists are coming out to support/endorse/make calls for Trump. They're probably just bad at being white supremacists... Didn't this whole conversation happen like two weeks ago? White supremacists have to support someone, even if there are no white supremacists running. So they endorse the person who most lines up with their views, even if that person isn't a white supremacist...this happens to be Trump since he is the most anti-illegal immigration/muslim people, which tend not to be white. Its an ongoing discussion because some people don't seem to be able to accept that someone is racist unless they burn across on black family's lawn. And then they requires confirmation the cross burning wasn't satire and the black family didn't do anything to provoke the cross burning. Whether Trump happens to be racist or not isn't the point. The point is that just because a racist group supports someone doesn't mean that the person they're supporting is automatically a racist. He says racist things all the time. Talked about Mexico was sending over rapists and murders like it was real. He wants to create a data base for Muslims(not a race, I know, but I bet that data base would be filled with brown people). The man is super racist.And if racists groups support him, that is the reality of the situation. You act like there is nothing he could do to stop them, yet all it would take is to not be a super racist bigot. Also, he has said that the flat earth people might be on to something and hinted at denying the holocaust. That is irrelevant. I am not saying that Trump isn't a racist. Pretend for a minute that Trump is not a racist and he really is just anti-Muslim and anti-illegal immigration, no matter what race the Muslim practitioner or illegal immigrant was. The white supremacist groups would still endorse Trump, because his policies, while not race motivated, happen to lead to a situation more in line with their ideal view of the US (These two positions will likely lead to a more white US). Yet in this situation he isn't a racist. Just because racist people endorse you does NOT make you a racist. Your own beliefs/actions are what make you a racist. So using the fact that a racist group supports Trump as evidence to him being a racist is just silly. Sure, I don't think I ever made the argument otherwise. But that when white supremacist are likely going to support someone because they are racist. They have a consistent track history of only endorsing racists, so I feel safe in thinking that any candidate they openly endorse is not for me and is very likely racist. On February 11 2016 10:22 ErectedZenith wrote:On February 11 2016 10:18 Plansix wrote:On February 11 2016 10:11 ErectedZenith wrote:On February 11 2016 10:06 Plansix wrote:On February 11 2016 10:04 ErectedZenith wrote:On February 11 2016 09:58 Plansix wrote:On February 11 2016 09:28 xDaunt wrote:
[quote]
You are missing the point. Trump is running on a populist platform. I don't think that people are going to care that he is a billionaire. You need to think of him as the second coming of Teddy Roosvelt. Teddy Rossvelt actually gave a fuck about poor people, so not to much. Trump an ego maniac taking advantage of a defunked GOP that spend the last 4 Congressional elections promising their base shit they could never deliver. The only thing they have in common is the fact that both of them said some off color shit. Also Roosvelt's daughter was way more interesting than any of Trump's kids. On February 11 2016 09:55 ErectedZenith wrote:
[quote]
Trump is not a racist though. He is getting rid of illegal immigrant. Nah, he is a full blow bigot that thinks he can force another sovereign nation to pay us to build a wall. People just stopped pointing it out because its like saying the sky is blue. If Donald Trump can leverage USA's position have over Mexico to strike a deal for Mexican to build the wall and give companies more incentives to stay in USA (unlike Sanders) so that people can be productive in the society by working. Then that's great news for every legal Americans. Yeah, that is never going to happen. That isn't' reality, that is a racist pipe dream. Mexico isn't going to do shit except laugh. Its not racist though, you are definitely wrong on that. And Mexico's economy is pretty much reliant on USA, USA is a huge factor to dictate the direction of Mexico. Any elected USA president can abuse American's position and make a deal that is exclusively beneficial for USA. Obama can do it, Sanders can too. It was mostly all the other racist stuff he said that made me call him racist. The wall is just stupid. It was stupid when China did it and its still stupid today. And America need immigrants, illegal and otherwise. Reforming immigration is the real plan, not this populist pipe dream Trump is shilling. It wasn't stupid when China did it, they truly needed the wall for protection. That's so ignorant. Again, if Trump can make Mexico pay for the wall, all the power to him. And Trump isn't even saying to stop immigration, he is saying that USA should take in better candidates to improve the country. No to all of these things. The great wall of china was pretty meh at its job. Trump can't do that and he won't improve immigration because he has no plan to do it. Its better than no wall at all. And during early days of Trump's campaign, he literally have said that USA needs to accept more qualified individuals. That isn't a plan, that is a statement. Other candidates have plans that don't involve stupid walls or claiming Mexico is sending over rapist. And it took a million people to build that wall when they could have been doing anythings else. Arguing that it existed, therefore it was good is not compelling in the slightest.
That plan haven't been outlined as much because that plan exists already. USA have been taking the best candidates possible to enter to country until recently.
But it just happens that those who entered the country illegally are not exactly the best possible candidates.
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On February 11 2016 10:42 oBlade wrote:
Why would America "need" illegal immigrants, let alone any country?
We need immigrants because our population isn't growing and is threatening to shrink. That is terrible for economies, one of the things that will lead to a sure fire, long term recession due to less people participating in the economy. Legal immigrants would be better of course, but our government has been dicking around on that issue for decades. So illegal immigrants will do. Also immigrants are generally considers good for an economy and country, they participate more and generally contribute to the tax base. There isn't much that is bad about immigrants that can find jobs and work.
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On February 11 2016 10:42 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2016 10:19 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 11 2016 10:00 ErectedZenith wrote:On February 11 2016 09:58 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 11 2016 09:55 ErectedZenith wrote:On February 11 2016 09:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 11 2016 09:22 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 11 2016 09:10 GreenHorizons wrote:
My read on the situation is that people don't want the state to control everything any more than they want corporations to.
What people want is for common folk to regain some influence over those two groups which are undeniably conspiring to screw them over.
This is the Bernie/Trump appeal in a nutshell. The only problem is that Trump is anything but representative of "common folk" (especially as one of the most arrogant one-percenters out there). Supporters seem to connect with him more on a politically incorrect/ fuck the political establishment level, rather than him having the folksy charm that candidates like Sarah Palin attempted. Trump is pretty much the opposite of a soccer mom. Yeah Trumps shtick is a total scam. But that politically incorrect/fuck the establishment/xenophobic/racist stuff is a manifestation from a similar root. Ironically it's actually just white middle class folks falling into the same realities that marginalized people know America as always being. Nothing would bring in more stark contrast the lies Trump is peddling than Bernie's undeniably real sincerity and goals. I mean the attack recently leveled here only stood as an example that he's been fighting for working class folks his whole political life. Further backed up when Sanders talks about how his motivation isn't money, success, or power, it's a very real emotional reaction he has to seeing a weaker person taken advantage of by a stronger person, which stands in stark contrast to what sacrifices to common decency one must make to be a billionaire in the first place. Trump is not a racist though. He is getting rid of illegal immigrant. And their American families, but go on. I'm sure it's just coincidence white supremacists are coming out to support/endorse/make calls for Trump. They're probably just bad at being white supremacists... Still not racist though, he'll do this to any illegal immigrants, no discrimination there. You can be anti- illegal immigration and still be racist/ bigoted. The things he's said about Mexicans, Muslims, women, and a bunch of other groups supports the argument that he's a hateful and prejudicial man. Would you want to share specific things he said that made that support that argument for you?
Sure, as he's made plenty of comments over the past months, especially in interviews...
- Mexicans/ Latino immigrants are rapists and criminals and drug-smugglers
- Objectifying, misogynistic comments against specific women (e.g., We shouldn't vote for Carly Fiorina because she has an ugly face, Megyn Kelly acts a certain way because she's probably on her period) and in general (e.g., using derogatory sexual language)
- Banning ALL Muslims from entering the United States (including those who are American and just away on vacation); deporting most Muslims who are living in America
There's a ton more too that you could Google if you want 
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On February 11 2016 10:42 oBlade wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2016 10:19 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 11 2016 10:00 ErectedZenith wrote:On February 11 2016 09:58 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 11 2016 09:55 ErectedZenith wrote:On February 11 2016 09:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 11 2016 09:22 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 11 2016 09:10 GreenHorizons wrote:
My read on the situation is that people don't want the state to control everything any more than they want corporations to.
What people want is for common folk to regain some influence over those two groups which are undeniably conspiring to screw them over.
This is the Bernie/Trump appeal in a nutshell. The only problem is that Trump is anything but representative of "common folk" (especially as one of the most arrogant one-percenters out there). Supporters seem to connect with him more on a politically incorrect/ fuck the political establishment level, rather than him having the folksy charm that candidates like Sarah Palin attempted. Trump is pretty much the opposite of a soccer mom. Yeah Trumps shtick is a total scam. But that politically incorrect/fuck the establishment/xenophobic/racist stuff is a manifestation from a similar root. Ironically it's actually just white middle class folks falling into the same realities that marginalized people know America as always being. Nothing would bring in more stark contrast the lies Trump is peddling than Bernie's undeniably real sincerity and goals. I mean the attack recently leveled here only stood as an example that he's been fighting for working class folks his whole political life. Further backed up when Sanders talks about how his motivation isn't money, success, or power, it's a very real emotional reaction he has to seeing a weaker person taken advantage of by a stronger person, which stands in stark contrast to what sacrifices to common decency one must make to be a billionaire in the first place. Trump is not a racist though. He is getting rid of illegal immigrant. And their American families, but go on. I'm sure it's just coincidence white supremacists are coming out to support/endorse/make calls for Trump. They're probably just bad at being white supremacists... Still not racist though, he'll do this to any illegal immigrants, no discrimination there. You can be anti- illegal immigration and still be racist/ bigoted. The things he's said about Mexicans, Muslims, women, and a bunch of other groups supports the argument that he's a hateful and prejudicial man. Would you want to share specific things he said that made that support that argument for you? Show nested quote +On February 11 2016 10:18 Plansix wrote:On February 11 2016 10:11 ErectedZenith wrote:On February 11 2016 10:06 Plansix wrote:On February 11 2016 10:04 ErectedZenith wrote:On February 11 2016 09:58 Plansix wrote:On February 11 2016 09:28 xDaunt wrote:On February 11 2016 09:22 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 11 2016 09:10 GreenHorizons wrote:
My read on the situation is that people don't want the state to control everything any more than they want corporations to.
What people want is for common folk to regain some influence over those two groups which are undeniably conspiring to screw them over.
This is the Bernie/Trump appeal in a nutshell. The only problem is that Trump is anything but representative of "common folk" (especially as one of the most arrogant one-percenters out there). Supporters seem to connect with him more on a politically incorrect/ fuck the political establishment level, rather than him having the folksy charm that candidates like Sarah Palin attempted. Trump is pretty much the opposite of a soccer mom. You are missing the point. Trump is running on a populist platform. I don't think that people are going to care that he is a billionaire. You need to think of him as the second coming of Teddy Roosvelt. Teddy Rossvelt actually gave a fuck about poor people, so not to much. Trump an ego maniac taking advantage of a defunked GOP that spend the last 4 Congressional elections promising their base shit they could never deliver. The only thing they have in common is the fact that both of them said some off color shit. Also Roosvelt's daughter was way more interesting than any of Trump's kids. On February 11 2016 09:55 ErectedZenith wrote:On February 11 2016 09:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 11 2016 09:22 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 11 2016 09:10 GreenHorizons wrote:
My read on the situation is that people don't want the state to control everything any more than they want corporations to.
What people want is for common folk to regain some influence over those two groups which are undeniably conspiring to screw them over.
This is the Bernie/Trump appeal in a nutshell. The only problem is that Trump is anything but representative of "common folk" (especially as one of the most arrogant one-percenters out there). Supporters seem to connect with him more on a politically incorrect/ fuck the political establishment level, rather than him having the folksy charm that candidates like Sarah Palin attempted. Trump is pretty much the opposite of a soccer mom. Yeah Trumps shtick is a total scam. But that politically incorrect/fuck the establishment/xenophobic/racist stuff is a manifestation from a similar root. Ironically it's actually just white middle class folks falling into the same realities that marginalized people know America as always being. Nothing would bring in more stark contrast the lies Trump is peddling than Bernie's undeniably real sincerity and goals. I mean the attack recently leveled here only stood as an example that he's been fighting for working class folks his whole political life. Further backed up when Sanders talks about how his motivation isn't money, success, or power, it's a very real emotional reaction he has to seeing a weaker person taken advantage of by a stronger person, which stands in stark contrast to what sacrifices to common decency one must make to be a billionaire in the first place. Trump is not a racist though. He is getting rid of illegal immigrant. Nah, he is a full blow bigot that thinks he can force another sovereign nation to pay us to build a wall. People just stopped pointing it out because its like saying the sky is blue. If Donald Trump can leverage USA's position have over Mexico to strike a deal for Mexican to build the wall and give companies more incentives to stay in USA (unlike Sanders) so that people can be productive in the society by working. Then that's great news for every legal Americans. Yeah, that is never going to happen. That isn't' reality, that is a racist pipe dream. Mexico isn't going to do shit except laugh. Its not racist though, you are definitely wrong on that. And Mexico's economy is pretty much reliant on USA, USA is a huge factor to dictate the direction of Mexico. Any elected USA president can abuse American's position and make a deal that is exclusively beneficial for USA. Obama can do it, Sanders can too. And America need immigrants, illegal and otherwise. Why would America "need" illegal immigrants, let alone any country?
Most developed countries benefit from immigrants, but it's ridiculous to say that a country needs illegal immigrants.
Yes, if an illegal immigrant establishes themselves in some kind of useful occupation with intent to stay, it's often a net benefit to legitimise them instead of kicking them out. However, there's no reason you'd want that sequence of events over having just brought a legal, skilled immigrant in the first place.
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He also mocked a disabled reporter for asking a question. And he said he would totally bang with his daughter if she wasn't his daughter. And then he doubled down on the statement when someone pointed out it was super fucked up. I think Trump's lead political aid dedicated his book to a holocaust denier, if I remember correctly. Good stuff.
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United States43258 Posts
On February 11 2016 08:07 Plansix wrote:
Socialism doesn't require the "seizing the means of production or nationalizing the industries". That's one route, but it is not a requirement.
That's the dictionary definition of it where I come from. It was written in the Labour Party constitution and had to be amended out in the 90s as they shifted to democratic socialism. Socialism means worker control of the means of production. Of course Sanders doesn't believe in that but that's because he's a democratic socialist, not a socialist. The label national socialist is just as relevant to him as socialist.
That said there doesn't ever seem to be any questions about our socialist defence policy. Why not take contracts for who could defend the nation and meet our military obligations for the least amount of money?
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On February 11 2016 10:57 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2016 10:42 oBlade wrote:On February 11 2016 10:19 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 11 2016 10:00 ErectedZenith wrote:On February 11 2016 09:58 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 11 2016 09:55 ErectedZenith wrote:On February 11 2016 09:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 11 2016 09:22 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 11 2016 09:10 GreenHorizons wrote:
My read on the situation is that people don't want the state to control everything any more than they want corporations to.
What people want is for common folk to regain some influence over those two groups which are undeniably conspiring to screw them over.
This is the Bernie/Trump appeal in a nutshell. The only problem is that Trump is anything but representative of "common folk" (especially as one of the most arrogant one-percenters out there). Supporters seem to connect with him more on a politically incorrect/ fuck the political establishment level, rather than him having the folksy charm that candidates like Sarah Palin attempted. Trump is pretty much the opposite of a soccer mom. Yeah Trumps shtick is a total scam. But that politically incorrect/fuck the establishment/xenophobic/racist stuff is a manifestation from a similar root. Ironically it's actually just white middle class folks falling into the same realities that marginalized people know America as always being. Nothing would bring in more stark contrast the lies Trump is peddling than Bernie's undeniably real sincerity and goals. I mean the attack recently leveled here only stood as an example that he's been fighting for working class folks his whole political life. Further backed up when Sanders talks about how his motivation isn't money, success, or power, it's a very real emotional reaction he has to seeing a weaker person taken advantage of by a stronger person, which stands in stark contrast to what sacrifices to common decency one must make to be a billionaire in the first place. Trump is not a racist though. He is getting rid of illegal immigrant. And their American families, but go on. I'm sure it's just coincidence white supremacists are coming out to support/endorse/make calls for Trump. They're probably just bad at being white supremacists... Still not racist though, he'll do this to any illegal immigrants, no discrimination there. You can be anti- illegal immigration and still be racist/ bigoted. The things he's said about Mexicans, Muslims, women, and a bunch of other groups supports the argument that he's a hateful and prejudicial man. Would you want to share specific things he said that made that support that argument for you? Sure, as he's made plenty of comments over the past months, especially in interviews... - Mexicans/ Latino immigrants are rapists and criminals and drug-smugglers - Objectifying, misogynistic comments against specific women (e.g., We shouldn't vote for Carly Fiorina because she has an ugly face, Megyn Kelly acts a certain way because she's probably on her period) and in general (e.g., using derogatory sexual language) - Banning ALL Muslims from entering the United States (including those who are American and just away on vacation); deporting most Muslims who are living in America There's a ton more too that you could Google if you want
lol misogynistic? Nice buzzword. Making fun of Megyn Kelly in that she's probably on her period = hates women.
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On February 11 2016 11:09 Deathstar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2016 10:57 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 11 2016 10:42 oBlade wrote:On February 11 2016 10:19 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 11 2016 10:00 ErectedZenith wrote:On February 11 2016 09:58 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 11 2016 09:55 ErectedZenith wrote:On February 11 2016 09:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 11 2016 09:22 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 11 2016 09:10 GreenHorizons wrote:
My read on the situation is that people don't want the state to control everything any more than they want corporations to.
What people want is for common folk to regain some influence over those two groups which are undeniably conspiring to screw them over.
This is the Bernie/Trump appeal in a nutshell. The only problem is that Trump is anything but representative of "common folk" (especially as one of the most arrogant one-percenters out there). Supporters seem to connect with him more on a politically incorrect/ fuck the political establishment level, rather than him having the folksy charm that candidates like Sarah Palin attempted. Trump is pretty much the opposite of a soccer mom. Yeah Trumps shtick is a total scam. But that politically incorrect/fuck the establishment/xenophobic/racist stuff is a manifestation from a similar root. Ironically it's actually just white middle class folks falling into the same realities that marginalized people know America as always being. Nothing would bring in more stark contrast the lies Trump is peddling than Bernie's undeniably real sincerity and goals. I mean the attack recently leveled here only stood as an example that he's been fighting for working class folks his whole political life. Further backed up when Sanders talks about how his motivation isn't money, success, or power, it's a very real emotional reaction he has to seeing a weaker person taken advantage of by a stronger person, which stands in stark contrast to what sacrifices to common decency one must make to be a billionaire in the first place. Trump is not a racist though. He is getting rid of illegal immigrant. And their American families, but go on. I'm sure it's just coincidence white supremacists are coming out to support/endorse/make calls for Trump. They're probably just bad at being white supremacists... Still not racist though, he'll do this to any illegal immigrants, no discrimination there. You can be anti- illegal immigration and still be racist/ bigoted. The things he's said about Mexicans, Muslims, women, and a bunch of other groups supports the argument that he's a hateful and prejudicial man. Would you want to share specific things he said that made that support that argument for you? Sure, as he's made plenty of comments over the past months, especially in interviews... - Mexicans/ Latino immigrants are rapists and criminals and drug-smugglers - Objectifying, misogynistic comments against specific women (e.g., We shouldn't vote for Carly Fiorina because she has an ugly face, Megyn Kelly acts a certain way because she's probably on her period) and in general (e.g., using derogatory sexual language) - Banning ALL Muslims from entering the United States (including those who are American and just away on vacation); deporting most Muslims who are living in America There's a ton more too that you could Google if you want lol misogynistic? Nice buzzword. Making fun of Megyn Kelly in that she's probably on her period = hates women.
Hating women is not required to be misogynistic. Its just a specific flavor of asshole. Claiming its "that time of the month" the instant a woman argues with him makes Trump misogynistic. And wanting to fuck his daughter. It also isn't a buzzword.
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On February 11 2016 11:09 Deathstar wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2016 10:57 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 11 2016 10:42 oBlade wrote:On February 11 2016 10:19 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 11 2016 10:00 ErectedZenith wrote:On February 11 2016 09:58 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 11 2016 09:55 ErectedZenith wrote:On February 11 2016 09:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 11 2016 09:22 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 11 2016 09:10 GreenHorizons wrote:
My read on the situation is that people don't want the state to control everything any more than they want corporations to.
What people want is for common folk to regain some influence over those two groups which are undeniably conspiring to screw them over.
This is the Bernie/Trump appeal in a nutshell. The only problem is that Trump is anything but representative of "common folk" (especially as one of the most arrogant one-percenters out there). Supporters seem to connect with him more on a politically incorrect/ fuck the political establishment level, rather than him having the folksy charm that candidates like Sarah Palin attempted. Trump is pretty much the opposite of a soccer mom. Yeah Trumps shtick is a total scam. But that politically incorrect/fuck the establishment/xenophobic/racist stuff is a manifestation from a similar root. Ironically it's actually just white middle class folks falling into the same realities that marginalized people know America as always being. Nothing would bring in more stark contrast the lies Trump is peddling than Bernie's undeniably real sincerity and goals. I mean the attack recently leveled here only stood as an example that he's been fighting for working class folks his whole political life. Further backed up when Sanders talks about how his motivation isn't money, success, or power, it's a very real emotional reaction he has to seeing a weaker person taken advantage of by a stronger person, which stands in stark contrast to what sacrifices to common decency one must make to be a billionaire in the first place. Trump is not a racist though. He is getting rid of illegal immigrant. And their American families, but go on. I'm sure it's just coincidence white supremacists are coming out to support/endorse/make calls for Trump. They're probably just bad at being white supremacists... Still not racist though, he'll do this to any illegal immigrants, no discrimination there. You can be anti- illegal immigration and still be racist/ bigoted. The things he's said about Mexicans, Muslims, women, and a bunch of other groups supports the argument that he's a hateful and prejudicial man. Would you want to share specific things he said that made that support that argument for you? Sure, as he's made plenty of comments over the past months, especially in interviews... - Mexicans/ Latino immigrants are rapists and criminals and drug-smugglers - Objectifying, misogynistic comments against specific women (e.g., We shouldn't vote for Carly Fiorina because she has an ugly face, Megyn Kelly acts a certain way because she's probably on her period) and in general (e.g., using derogatory sexual language) - Banning ALL Muslims from entering the United States (including those who are American and just away on vacation); deporting most Muslims who are living in America There's a ton more too that you could Google if you want lol misogynistic? Nice buzzword. Making fun of Megyn Kelly in that she's probably on her period = hates women.
Haven't you heard? Everyone who doesn't strictly tow the PC line is a racist/sexist/bigot/homophobe. We had a fun conversation about that in here last year.
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Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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On February 11 2016 11:16 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2016 11:09 Deathstar wrote:On February 11 2016 10:57 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 11 2016 10:42 oBlade wrote:On February 11 2016 10:19 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 11 2016 10:00 ErectedZenith wrote:On February 11 2016 09:58 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 11 2016 09:55 ErectedZenith wrote:On February 11 2016 09:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 11 2016 09:22 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
[quote]
The only problem is that Trump is anything but representative of "common folk" (especially as one of the most arrogant one-percenters out there). Supporters seem to connect with him more on a politically incorrect/ fuck the political establishment level, rather than him having the folksy charm that candidates like Sarah Palin attempted. Trump is pretty much the opposite of a soccer mom. Yeah Trumps shtick is a total scam. But that politically incorrect/fuck the establishment/xenophobic/racist stuff is a manifestation from a similar root. Ironically it's actually just white middle class folks falling into the same realities that marginalized people know America as always being. Nothing would bring in more stark contrast the lies Trump is peddling than Bernie's undeniably real sincerity and goals. I mean the attack recently leveled here only stood as an example that he's been fighting for working class folks his whole political life. Further backed up when Sanders talks about how his motivation isn't money, success, or power, it's a very real emotional reaction he has to seeing a weaker person taken advantage of by a stronger person, which stands in stark contrast to what sacrifices to common decency one must make to be a billionaire in the first place. Trump is not a racist though. He is getting rid of illegal immigrant. And their American families, but go on. I'm sure it's just coincidence white supremacists are coming out to support/endorse/make calls for Trump. They're probably just bad at being white supremacists... Still not racist though, he'll do this to any illegal immigrants, no discrimination there. You can be anti- illegal immigration and still be racist/ bigoted. The things he's said about Mexicans, Muslims, women, and a bunch of other groups supports the argument that he's a hateful and prejudicial man. Would you want to share specific things he said that made that support that argument for you? Sure, as he's made plenty of comments over the past months, especially in interviews... - Mexicans/ Latino immigrants are rapists and criminals and drug-smugglers - Objectifying, misogynistic comments against specific women (e.g., We shouldn't vote for Carly Fiorina because she has an ugly face, Megyn Kelly acts a certain way because she's probably on her period) and in general (e.g., using derogatory sexual language) - Banning ALL Muslims from entering the United States (including those who are American and just away on vacation); deporting most Muslims who are living in America There's a ton more too that you could Google if you want lol misogynistic? Nice buzzword. Making fun of Megyn Kelly in that she's probably on her period = hates women. Haven't you heard? Everyone who doesn't strictly tow the PC line is a racist/sexist/bigot/homophobe. We had a fun conversation about that in here last year.
Its true, only one side of the discussion gets to call people names. Being PC is bad and you can't call people racist/sexist/bigot/homophobic because you might hurt their feelings.
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Look, I'm usually the first to be annoyed at people waving mysogynist/bigot/whatever around in lieu of actually making an argument, but Donald Trump is the last hill you would want to die on. The guy's assholeness is his entire brand.
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On February 11 2016 11:18 oneofthem wrote:
you cant be serious
Well, I certainly had fun.
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On February 11 2016 10:55 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2016 10:42 oBlade wrote:
Why would America "need" illegal immigrants, let alone any country? We need immigrants because our population isn't growing and is threatening to shrink.
I'm asking about illegal immigrants specifically, but since you wanted to make this point, no, it looks fine:
https://www.google.com/publicdata/explore?ds=kf7tgg1uo9ude_&met_y=population&idim=country:US&hl=en&dl=en
On February 11 2016 10:55 Plansix wrote:
So illegal immigrants will do.
I think you put better than I would the correct answer to this:
On February 11 2016 10:40 Plansix wrote:
Arguing that it existed, therefore it was good is not compelling in the slightest.
On February 11 2016 10:57 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2016 10:42 oBlade wrote:On February 11 2016 10:19 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 11 2016 10:00 ErectedZenith wrote:On February 11 2016 09:58 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 11 2016 09:55 ErectedZenith wrote:On February 11 2016 09:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 11 2016 09:22 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 11 2016 09:10 GreenHorizons wrote:
My read on the situation is that people don't want the state to control everything any more than they want corporations to.
What people want is for common folk to regain some influence over those two groups which are undeniably conspiring to screw them over.
This is the Bernie/Trump appeal in a nutshell. The only problem is that Trump is anything but representative of "common folk" (especially as one of the most arrogant one-percenters out there). Supporters seem to connect with him more on a politically incorrect/ fuck the political establishment level, rather than him having the folksy charm that candidates like Sarah Palin attempted. Trump is pretty much the opposite of a soccer mom. Yeah Trumps shtick is a total scam. But that politically incorrect/fuck the establishment/xenophobic/racist stuff is a manifestation from a similar root. Ironically it's actually just white middle class folks falling into the same realities that marginalized people know America as always being. Nothing would bring in more stark contrast the lies Trump is peddling than Bernie's undeniably real sincerity and goals. I mean the attack recently leveled here only stood as an example that he's been fighting for working class folks his whole political life. Further backed up when Sanders talks about how his motivation isn't money, success, or power, it's a very real emotional reaction he has to seeing a weaker person taken advantage of by a stronger person, which stands in stark contrast to what sacrifices to common decency one must make to be a billionaire in the first place. Trump is not a racist though. He is getting rid of illegal immigrant. And their American families, but go on. I'm sure it's just coincidence white supremacists are coming out to support/endorse/make calls for Trump. They're probably just bad at being white supremacists... Still not racist though, he'll do this to any illegal immigrants, no discrimination there. You can be anti- illegal immigration and still be racist/ bigoted. The things he's said about Mexicans, Muslims, women, and a bunch of other groups supports the argument that he's a hateful and prejudicial man. Would you want to share specific things he said that made that support that argument for you? Sure, as he's made plenty of comments over the past months, especially in interviews... - Mexicans/ Latino immigrants are rapists and criminals and drug-smugglers - Objectifying, misogynistic comments against specific women (e.g., We shouldn't vote for Carly Fiorina because she has an ugly face, Megyn Kelly acts a certain way because she's probably on her period) and in general (e.g., using derogatory sexual language) - Banning ALL Muslims from entering the United States (including those who are American and just away on vacation); deporting most Muslims who are living in America There's a ton more too that you could Google if you want
I've been watching the campaign for a while, I've seen segments of the media repeating the same claims of racist, sexist, bigot, and just wanted to know if I missed something, like a real quote, that would convince me, because the repetition has made me more and more skeptical. Like when it comes to the southern border, people go as far as to describe Mexico as being in a civil war because of the power and violence of cartels. And I watched that speech live months ago. He also didn't make a comment about menstruation (you can watch and make your own judgment here), and it's not clear to me that talking smack at "specific women" as you've said makes someone sexist in any meaningful sense of the word. He also has yet to say anything about deporting Muslims, so at this point I'm getting skeptical of your credibility.
On February 11 2016 11:14 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2016 11:09 Deathstar wrote:On February 11 2016 10:57 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 11 2016 10:42 oBlade wrote:On February 11 2016 10:19 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On February 11 2016 10:00 ErectedZenith wrote:On February 11 2016 09:58 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 11 2016 09:55 ErectedZenith wrote:On February 11 2016 09:33 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 11 2016 09:22 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
[quote]
The only problem is that Trump is anything but representative of "common folk" (especially as one of the most arrogant one-percenters out there). Supporters seem to connect with him more on a politically incorrect/ fuck the political establishment level, rather than him having the folksy charm that candidates like Sarah Palin attempted. Trump is pretty much the opposite of a soccer mom. Yeah Trumps shtick is a total scam. But that politically incorrect/fuck the establishment/xenophobic/racist stuff is a manifestation from a similar root. Ironically it's actually just white middle class folks falling into the same realities that marginalized people know America as always being. Nothing would bring in more stark contrast the lies Trump is peddling than Bernie's undeniably real sincerity and goals. I mean the attack recently leveled here only stood as an example that he's been fighting for working class folks his whole political life. Further backed up when Sanders talks about how his motivation isn't money, success, or power, it's a very real emotional reaction he has to seeing a weaker person taken advantage of by a stronger person, which stands in stark contrast to what sacrifices to common decency one must make to be a billionaire in the first place. Trump is not a racist though. He is getting rid of illegal immigrant. And their American families, but go on. I'm sure it's just coincidence white supremacists are coming out to support/endorse/make calls for Trump. They're probably just bad at being white supremacists... Still not racist though, he'll do this to any illegal immigrants, no discrimination there. You can be anti- illegal immigration and still be racist/ bigoted. The things he's said about Mexicans, Muslims, women, and a bunch of other groups supports the argument that he's a hateful and prejudicial man. Would you want to share specific things he said that made that support that argument for you? Sure, as he's made plenty of comments over the past months, especially in interviews... - Mexicans/ Latino immigrants are rapists and criminals and drug-smugglers - Objectifying, misogynistic comments against specific women (e.g., We shouldn't vote for Carly Fiorina because she has an ugly face, Megyn Kelly acts a certain way because she's probably on her period) and in general (e.g., using derogatory sexual language) - Banning ALL Muslims from entering the United States (including those who are American and just away on vacation); deporting most Muslims who are living in America There's a ton more too that you could Google if you want lol misogynistic? Nice buzzword. Making fun of Megyn Kelly in that she's probably on her period = hates women. Hating women is not required to be misogynistic.
Are you even a real person?
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On February 11 2016 11:22 oBlade wrote:
Are you even a real person?
Do you even know what that word means? Have you ever seen the show Mad Men? Did Don Draper hate women?
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On February 11 2016 11:26 Plansix wrote:Do you even know what that word means? Have you ever seen the show Mad Men? Did Don Draper hate women?
No he loved them.
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EPT
