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Read the rules in the OP before posting, please.

In order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a re-read to refresh your memory! The vast majority of you are contributing in a healthy way, keep it up!

NOTE: When providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion if it's not obvious.
Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments can result in a mod action.
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-23 04:23:24
October 23 2015 04:07 GMT
#48581
There were quick investigations, it's just the congressional ones that are slow (partially due to repeating).
e.g. the state dept review took about 3 months
looking through it right now
http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/202446.pdf

edit: edit note removed, I was misreading.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
CannonsNCarriers
Profile Joined April 2010
United States638 Posts
October 23 2015 04:10 GMT
#48582
On October 23 2015 12:52 Danglars wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2015 11:48 frazzle wrote:
OK, but 6 or 7 investigations?

I'm glad we've reached this note of bipartisanship. I'd have preferred a forthcoming state department and quicker investigation too.


State was completely forthcoming. You just elected to ignore the successful House Intel Committee investigation that wasn't a joke like this one.

From the AP:

WASHINGTON (AP) — A two-year investigation by the Republican-controlled House Intelligence Committee has found that the CIA and the military acted properly in responding to the 2012 attack on a U.S. diplomatic compound in Benghazi, Libya, and asserted no wrongdoing by Obama administration appointees.

Debunking a series of persistent allegations hinting at dark conspiracies, the investigation of the politically charged incident determined that there was no intelligence failure, no delay in sending a CIA rescue team, no missed opportunity for a military rescue, and no evidence the CIA was covertly shipping arms from Libya to Syria.

In the immediate aftermath of the attack, intelligence about who carried it out and why was contradictory, the report found. That led Susan Rice, then U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, to inaccurately assert that the attack had evolved from a protest, when in fact there had been no protest. But it was intelligence analysts, not political appointees, who made the wrong call, the committee found. The report did not conclude that Rice or any other government official acted in bad faith or intentionally misled the American people.

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/ecc3a300383445d5a90dd6ca764c9e15/house-intel-panel-debunks-many-benghazi-theories
Dun tuch my cheezbrgr
Introvert
Profile Joined April 2011
United States4773 Posts
October 23 2015 05:45 GMT
#48583
Of course Hillary enjoyed herself, she wanted this public because she knew how it would to her side. She also knew that idiot Cummings would be his usual self. There was a reason Hillary, and not the committee, wanted this public.
"It is therefore only at the birth of a society that one can be completely logical in the laws. When you see a people enjoying this advantage, do not hasten to conclude that it is wise; think rather that it is young." -Alexis de Tocqueville
Dickbutt
Profile Joined May 2015
Korea (North)129 Posts
October 23 2015 09:20 GMT
#48584
hehe cummings
스타일, 스타트, 스베누!
JinDesu
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States3990 Posts
October 23 2015 11:29 GMT
#48585
On October 23 2015 18:20 Dickbutt wrote:
hehe cummings


Most appropriate name to post ever.
Yargh
m4ini
Profile Joined February 2014
4215 Posts
October 23 2015 13:09 GMT
#48586
On October 23 2015 20:29 JinDesu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 23 2015 18:20 Dickbutt wrote:
hehe cummings


Most appropriate name to post ever.


Even comes with "123" postings. Apparently that's a thing in twitch-chats.

On track to MA1950A.
kwizach
Profile Joined June 2011
3658 Posts
October 23 2015 14:17 GMT
#48587
On October 23 2015 14:45 Introvert wrote:
Of course Hillary enjoyed herself, she wanted this public because she knew how it would to her side. She also knew that idiot Cummings would be his usual self. There was a reason Hillary, and not the committee, wanted this public.

Yes, and that reason is that the committee was built as a political crusade against Hillary, and that the Republicans' hypocrisy was on full display during the hearing.
"Oedipus ruined a great sex life by asking too many questions." -- Stephen Colbert
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
October 23 2015 15:43 GMT
#48588
Stick a fork in him...

Republicans have fended off accusations for years that they'd gut Medicare for seniors and end the program "as we know it."

Not Ben Carson. The former neurosurgeon acknowledges he would abolish the program altogether.

Carson, who now leads the GOP field in Iowa according to the latest Quinnipiac Poll, would eliminate the program that provides health care to 49 million senior citizens, as well as Medicaid, and replace it with a system of cradle-to-grave savings accounts which would be funded with $2,000 a year in government contributions. While rivals have been pummeled for proposing less radical changes, Carson hasn't faced the same scrutiny -- and his continued traction in polls has left GOP strategists and conservative health care wonks scratching their heads.

"This isn’t a borderline issue. The politics of this are horrific," said Doug Holtz-Eakin, head of the American Action Forum and health care adviser to Sen. John McCain's 2008 presidential campaign.

Carson's stance on the third-rail issue of Medicare is especially risky given his strength among elderly voters. In Iowa, Carson draws a quarter of the senior vote -- more than double any other candidate except Donald Trump, with whom he’s statistically tied among seniors. Carson’s support is even higher among voters between the ages of 55 and 64, who are on the verge of Medicare eligibility. He draws 34 percent of that age group, double Trump’s level of support, according to the Quinnipiac poll.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands21705 Posts
October 23 2015 16:13 GMT
#48589
On October 24 2015 00:43 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Stick a fork in him...

Show nested quote +
Republicans have fended off accusations for years that they'd gut Medicare for seniors and end the program "as we know it."

Not Ben Carson. The former neurosurgeon acknowledges he would abolish the program altogether.

Carson, who now leads the GOP field in Iowa according to the latest Quinnipiac Poll, would eliminate the program that provides health care to 49 million senior citizens, as well as Medicaid, and replace it with a system of cradle-to-grave savings accounts which would be funded with $2,000 a year in government contributions. While rivals have been pummeled for proposing less radical changes, Carson hasn't faced the same scrutiny -- and his continued traction in polls has left GOP strategists and conservative health care wonks scratching their heads.

"This isn’t a borderline issue. The politics of this are horrific," said Doug Holtz-Eakin, head of the American Action Forum and health care adviser to Sen. John McCain's 2008 presidential campaign.

Carson's stance on the third-rail issue of Medicare is especially risky given his strength among elderly voters. In Iowa, Carson draws a quarter of the senior vote -- more than double any other candidate except Donald Trump, with whom he’s statistically tied among seniors. Carson’s support is even higher among voters between the ages of 55 and 64, who are on the verge of Medicare eligibility. He draws 34 percent of that age group, double Trump’s level of support, according to the Quinnipiac poll.


Source

Every time he opens his mouth a little bit more stupid comes out.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15690 Posts
October 23 2015 16:14 GMT
#48590
Clinton handled that shit like a champ. Are we at a point where this committee is helping her?
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
October 23 2015 16:16 GMT
#48591
The flagging GOP presidential campaign of former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush is cutting staff at its Miami headquarters to save more than $1 million per month and slash payroll by 40 percent this week, according to reports on Friday.

Politico reported that staffers were informed of the changes on a conference call.

“This is about winning the race,” an anonymous campaign adviser told Bloomberg Politics. on Friday. “We’re doing it now and making the shifts with confidence. We expect to win."

From the Bloomberg report:

Bush's advisers, under pressure from their donors and from falling and stagnant poll numbers, have been discussing ways to retool the campaign in recent days, and came to the conclusion that a course correction was essential. While recent tangles with Donald Trump have energized the campaign, Bush's senior team recognized a more fundamental set of changes was required that didn't involve dealing directly with the party's surprising—and surprisingly durable—front-runner.
It's unclear if Bush was on the call. The National Journal reported Bush was headed to Virginia.

Kristy Campbell, Bush's campaign spokeswoman, said resources are being shifted into early primary and caucus states.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
GreenHorizons
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States23250 Posts
October 23 2015 16:20 GMT
#48592
On October 24 2015 01:16 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Show nested quote +
The flagging GOP presidential campaign of former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush is cutting staff at its Miami headquarters to save more than $1 million per month and slash payroll by 40 percent this week, according to reports on Friday.

Politico reported that staffers were informed of the changes on a conference call.

“This is about winning the race,” an anonymous campaign adviser told Bloomberg Politics. on Friday. “We’re doing it now and making the shifts with confidence. We expect to win."

From the Bloomberg report:

Bush's advisers, under pressure from their donors and from falling and stagnant poll numbers, have been discussing ways to retool the campaign in recent days, and came to the conclusion that a course correction was essential. While recent tangles with Donald Trump have energized the campaign, Bush's senior team recognized a more fundamental set of changes was required that didn't involve dealing directly with the party's surprising—and surprisingly durable—front-runner.
It's unclear if Bush was on the call. The National Journal reported Bush was headed to Virginia.

Kristy Campbell, Bush's campaign spokeswoman, said resources are being shifted into early primary and caucus states.


Source


The establishment has already moved on to Rubio, Jeb's on his own now. Short of decking Trump on the debate stage and making him cry for insulting Jeb's dad, Jeb's done for.
"People like to look at history and think 'If that was me back then, I would have...' We're living through history, and the truth is, whatever you are doing now is probably what you would have done then" "Scratch a Liberal..."
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15690 Posts
October 23 2015 16:21 GMT
#48593
"Our campaign is incapable of sustaining itself because people stopped donating. We're going to win."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2015-10-23 16:31:02
October 23 2015 16:30 GMT
#48594
Maybe it's the pope. Or the freakish year in extreme climate records. It might even be explained by the United Nations climate talks and the bright lights of the presidential election cycle. Whatever the cause, U.S. views on climate change are shifting—fast.

Three-quarters of Americans now accept the scientific consensus on climate change, the highest level in four years of surveys conducted by the University of Texas at Austin. The biggest shocker is what's happening inside the GOP. In a remarkable turnabout, 59 percent of Republicans now say climate change is happening, up from 47 percent just six months ago.

When public opinion shifts this much in a single survey, a bit of skepticism is justified. (You can take a look at the methodology here.) Yet these results are precisely in line with a separate survey published this month by the University of Michigan, which found that 56 percent of Republicans believe there's solid evidence to support global warming, up from 47 percent a year ago. The Michigan poll also found bipartisan agreement with climate science at the highest level since 2008.

The changing views by Republicans could strand some of the leading presidential candidates in an increasingly unpopular position. Many in the party reject mainstream climate science, and not just at the margins. Republican leaders including Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell and top presidential contenders Donald Trump, Ben Carson, and Marco Rubio all articulate views that would be considered extreme in other countries.

Republicans are still mixed in support for policies to curb climate change, according to the Texas poll. Just 26 percent of Republicans said they would be more likely to vote for a candidate who supports a tax on carbon emissions, a policy with majority support among Democrats. On the other hand, half of Republicans said they would be more likely to vote for a candidate who wants to reduce the use of coal or require utilities to obtain a certain proportion of electricity from wind and solar.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Simberto
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany11519 Posts
October 23 2015 16:36 GMT
#48595
On October 24 2015 01:13 Gorsameth wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 24 2015 00:43 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Stick a fork in him...

Republicans have fended off accusations for years that they'd gut Medicare for seniors and end the program "as we know it."

Not Ben Carson. The former neurosurgeon acknowledges he would abolish the program altogether.

Carson, who now leads the GOP field in Iowa according to the latest Quinnipiac Poll, would eliminate the program that provides health care to 49 million senior citizens, as well as Medicaid, and replace it with a system of cradle-to-grave savings accounts which would be funded with $2,000 a year in government contributions. While rivals have been pummeled for proposing less radical changes, Carson hasn't faced the same scrutiny -- and his continued traction in polls has left GOP strategists and conservative health care wonks scratching their heads.

"This isn’t a borderline issue. The politics of this are horrific," said Doug Holtz-Eakin, head of the American Action Forum and health care adviser to Sen. John McCain's 2008 presidential campaign.

Carson's stance on the third-rail issue of Medicare is especially risky given his strength among elderly voters. In Iowa, Carson draws a quarter of the senior vote -- more than double any other candidate except Donald Trump, with whom he’s statistically tied among seniors. Carson’s support is even higher among voters between the ages of 55 and 64, who are on the verge of Medicare eligibility. He draws 34 percent of that age group, double Trump’s level of support, according to the Quinnipiac poll.


Source

Every time he opens his mouth a little bit more stupid comes out.


Maybe that is his strategy. First you relieve all of the stupid overpressure inside your head by opening your mouth and letting it get out, then you are the smartest man on stage and win the election, because all the others still have their heads full of stupid.
Kickstart
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States1941 Posts
October 23 2015 17:45 GMT
#48596
This whole Benghazi thing is pathetic. Then compare what we know about how people acted there and compare it to how we know people acted leading up to 9/11 and it just becomes sad. The right are trying to do a hit job on Hillary with nothing, meanwhile we got shit like the director of the FBI saying 'gee i sure hope it wasn't them guys from the flight schools' after 9/11 and no one even loses their job.

Partisan bullshit at its best. I just wish people cared as much about doing what is best for the country as they do about towing the party line and scoring political points. So sick of our political climate.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
October 23 2015 18:13 GMT
#48597
Twenty-four states have filed lawsuits against Barack Obama’s rules for cutting carbon pollution from power plants, the first wave of a much-anticipated legal and political onslaught against his climate change plan.

The challenge filed on Friday asked a federal court in Washington DC, to strike down the power plant rules, thus gutting the heart of Obama’s climate plan.

Republicans in Congress are planning to introduce measures next week seeking to overturn the rules.

Administration officials have said repeatedly they believe they are in a strong position to beat back both sets of challenges.

But the lawsuits and the initiatives in Congress send a powerful message to the international community ahead of the Paris climate conference next month that Obama faces significant opposition to his efforts to cut America’s carbon pollution and sign on to a global deal to fight climate change.

Obama is leaning heavily on the power plant rules as evidence of his efforts to fight climate change in the US – and so help lead other countries to an international agreement. In addition to their efforts against the EPA rules, Republicans in Congress are trying to block Obama from joining an international climate agreement without first securing Senate approval.

The EPA rules under attack on Friday would reduce greenhouse gas emissions from power plants by 32% by 2030 on 2005 levels, delivering the biggest single cut in America’s carbon pollution.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Adreme
Profile Joined June 2011
United States5574 Posts
October 23 2015 20:25 GMT
#48598
On October 24 2015 00:43 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Stick a fork in him...

Show nested quote +
Republicans have fended off accusations for years that they'd gut Medicare for seniors and end the program "as we know it."

Not Ben Carson. The former neurosurgeon acknowledges he would abolish the program altogether.

Carson, who now leads the GOP field in Iowa according to the latest Quinnipiac Poll, would eliminate the program that provides health care to 49 million senior citizens, as well as Medicaid, and replace it with a system of cradle-to-grave savings accounts which would be funded with $2,000 a year in government contributions. While rivals have been pummeled for proposing less radical changes, Carson hasn't faced the same scrutiny -- and his continued traction in polls has left GOP strategists and conservative health care wonks scratching their heads.

"This isn’t a borderline issue. The politics of this are horrific," said Doug Holtz-Eakin, head of the American Action Forum and health care adviser to Sen. John McCain's 2008 presidential campaign.

Carson's stance on the third-rail issue of Medicare is especially risky given his strength among elderly voters. In Iowa, Carson draws a quarter of the senior vote -- more than double any other candidate except Donald Trump, with whom he’s statistically tied among seniors. Carson’s support is even higher among voters between the ages of 55 and 64, who are on the verge of Medicare eligibility. He draws 34 percent of that age group, double Trump’s level of support, according to the Quinnipiac poll.


Source


He will still win Iowa. Fortunately winning Iowa means absolutely nothing but he will likely win it.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
October 23 2015 20:34 GMT
#48599
Mitt Romney is finally ready to take credit for Obamacare.

Speaking to the Boston Globe for their obituary of Staples founder Thomas G. Stemberg, who died Friday, the former Massachusetts praised Stemberg for his involvement in pushing “Romneycare,” which in turn, Romney said, led to Obamacare, giving “a lot of people” health coverage.

“Without Tom pushing it, I don’t think we would have had Romneycare,” Romney said. “Without Romneycare, I don’t think we would have Obamacare. So, without Tom a lot of people wouldn’t have health insurance.”

It’s hard to imagine Romney saying such a thing during the 2012 election cycle. Back then Romney was stumbling and bumbling his way to create some distance between the health care reform he championed as a governor and President Obama’s signature health care law.


The focus by conservatives on Obamacare as the leading example of everything that was wrong with Obama made for some extremely awkward moments for the eventual Republican nominee. The similarities between the Massachusetts and the federal laws even prompted one of Romney’s primary rivals to coin the term “Obamneycare.”

The next day Romney promised to repeal Obamacare if elected and vowed that on his first day in the White House, he would “grant a waiver to all 50 states from Obamacare."

He echoed his Obamacare repeal promises again and again. He called Obamacare a “very bad piece of legislation” and unconstitutional. He argued Romneycare only worked on the state level and that by bringing it nationwide, the Obama administration “fundamentally distrust[s] free enterprise and distrust the idea that states are where the power of government reside."

And if that wasn’t enough to convince Republicans, he turned his criticism against his own law.

"It's not even perfect for Massachusetts," he told the Washington Examiner’s Byron York in 2011. "At the time we created it, I vetoed several measures and said these, I think, are mistakes, and you in Massachusetts will find you have to correct them over time. ... But they have not made those changes, and in some cases they made things worse. So I wouldn't encourage any state to adopt it in total."

Now that Romney is suggesting that Romneycare helped bring about Obamacare, he is in line with what Obama said during one of their 2012 debates.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
CannonsNCarriers
Profile Joined April 2010
United States638 Posts
October 23 2015 22:34 GMT
#48600
On October 24 2015 05:34 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
Show nested quote +
Mitt Romney is finally ready to take credit for Obamacare.

Speaking to the Boston Globe for their obituary of Staples founder Thomas G. Stemberg, who died Friday, the former Massachusetts praised Stemberg for his involvement in pushing “Romneycare,” which in turn, Romney said, led to Obamacare, giving “a lot of people” health coverage.

“Without Tom pushing it, I don’t think we would have had Romneycare,” Romney said. “Without Romneycare, I don’t think we would have Obamacare. So, without Tom a lot of people wouldn’t have health insurance.”

It’s hard to imagine Romney saying such a thing during the 2012 election cycle. Back then Romney was stumbling and bumbling his way to create some distance between the health care reform he championed as a governor and President Obama’s signature health care law.


The focus by conservatives on Obamacare as the leading example of everything that was wrong with Obama made for some extremely awkward moments for the eventual Republican nominee. The similarities between the Massachusetts and the federal laws even prompted one of Romney’s primary rivals to coin the term “Obamneycare.”

The next day Romney promised to repeal Obamacare if elected and vowed that on his first day in the White House, he would “grant a waiver to all 50 states from Obamacare."

He echoed his Obamacare repeal promises again and again. He called Obamacare a “very bad piece of legislation” and unconstitutional. He argued Romneycare only worked on the state level and that by bringing it nationwide, the Obama administration “fundamentally distrust[s] free enterprise and distrust the idea that states are where the power of government reside."

And if that wasn’t enough to convince Republicans, he turned his criticism against his own law.

"It's not even perfect for Massachusetts," he told the Washington Examiner’s Byron York in 2011. "At the time we created it, I vetoed several measures and said these, I think, are mistakes, and you in Massachusetts will find you have to correct them over time. ... But they have not made those changes, and in some cases they made things worse. So I wouldn't encourage any state to adopt it in total."

Now that Romney is suggesting that Romneycare helped bring about Obamacare, he is in line with what Obama said during one of their 2012 debates.


Source


Yes, Obamacare, the bill he would repeal on day one. I don't understand how one man can flip flop this many times. I fully expect him to collapse in on himself and terrible lie-demons to spew forth from the gnawing vortex left behind by his splattered innards.
Dun tuch my cheezbrgr
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